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My mom has been in assisted living since her stroke which left her with dementia. Nobody is her guardian or POA so we cannot do anything for her with means of getting Medicaid .. we have no access to her info to file for Medicaid. Meanwhile she's in assisted living and has run out of money totally. Only get $1200 month SS, nothing else. She cannot live alone or with with someone she is bed and wheelchair ridden. She can't walk or do any ADLS herself she has limited memory so she cannot take care of anything financially. We are stuck she is going to get kicked out and I can't do anything to help. What will they do with her when they kick her out... I don't know what to do...

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This probably is not permitted but some may see it. There is just no help for caregivers that are trying their best to provide what is needed. And that includes assisted living, memory care and nursing homes. What are we to do?

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/investigations/nursing-home-dumped-man-unable-to-care-for-himself-in-lobby-of-independent-living-facility/73-614272560
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Take her to hospital & have her stay 3 days & make sure that they admit her. They will ask you if she will go home with you & your answer is a resounding “NO!!” Say your house is not accessible & don’t have anyone to help you & you have your life...she has to go to Skilled Nursing Facility for long term care. Speak to Social Worker at hospital...& they will help you. Hugs 🤗
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Kim - yeah they don’t kick them to the curb per se...... but what can be done is very very much interdependent on what type of facility they are in. If your mom is in AL, in theory, she should be kinda good on her ADLs and needs some help but can kinda “do” for herself as she’s just in Assisted Living. So evictions from an AL have lots more latitude as they should be able to be put on a bus. But a NH or MC have a whole different and tighter set of criteria as to how a resident is discharged. They can evict them but they have to have them go somewhere appropriate to the level of care their being evicted from. NH & MC have more safeguards for residents. ALs is not the same care needs situation for discharge. Comprende?

From the clusterF you described, your mom is way way WAY beyond being suitable for AL. I bet they took her as she looked like she was going to recover from the stroke and be just fine in AL. The way you described her care needs, She’s like needing a NH and this poses a quandary for the AL as they can’t put her on a bus. The AL is hoping you / your siblings / your elderly Aunt will relent and Take responsibility for her care. If you can’t do care, you gotta hold firm in all this.

What AL might do if family doesn’t come and get her or pay her bill, is the AL will find a reason to send mom to the ER and from the ER she gets either admitted to the hospital or placed under observation at the hospital. AL won’t take her back. This could magically happen like at day 27 of the 30 day countdown. Lol!

Thanks for the kudos, you can give a nice donation to a food bank for me.
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claytimefun Nov 1, 2018
Oh I will donate no problem. Thank you I will pay it forward.
Thank you. Kim
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Kim - ok so the AL has just sent you a formal “30 Day Notice”, right?
If so, this is setting the stage legally for them to evict her and the Notice should have it CC’d to APS, the State Dept of Aging, Area on Aging, a probono legal clinic. Or some combo of these. So it sets everyone CC’d on Notice as well.

If it’s you that has been mailed the 30 Day AND if you want her to become a ward of the state, I’d suggest you send a certified mail letter with the return registered card (these from the USPO and under $10) to the facility within the next 10 days. In the letter - keep it brief - you state in P#1: your share their concern for her, however, you are not able to provide the level of care, safety and security she needs. Include that your brother (put in his name and address) was the point person for your parent for her finances and health care. And that all information on her and access to her assets was known to him alone which is unfortunate since he died suddenly on.......

InP#2, you state that you as her relative will place no objection to her becoming a ward of the state of Michigan if that is determined to be in her best interest to be able to provide the level of care she needs. Close with “Thank you for your attention to this matter and any future communication must be in writing.”

The return registered receipt card (green postcard) is important, as it gets mailed back to you and will have a date and signature as to when received by the facility and by whom. I don’t know if for all states the RRR is considered legal, but for TX it is and can be entered in court if need be. For under $10 it’s the cheapest legal verification out there!

Personally I would not mention anything about the outstanding bill in the letter. Make it all about her care & safety.

.? For you, the $1200 SS each month, has it been paid to facility?
If it’s set up for the facility to be the payee, that’s great.
If you are a signatory on her checking account and can write them a check each month to use her SS to defray her bill, that needs to happen. But it sounds like you aren’t on her banking so that’s not an option.AND for more fun SS can’t do a thing unless mom personally makes the change at SS or there’s a guardianship done as SS doesn’t recognize DPoA even if you had one. It’s another reason why ward of the state is a good move as guardianship is a court order and cuts thru the SSA hurdles. Whatever you do, DO NOT touch any $ in her bank account.
Remember your mantra is “my brother handled everything for mom and unfortunately he died taking all info and details to the grave”

Good luck & let us know what happens. We all learn from each other.
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claytimefun Nov 1, 2018
Thank you so much. I feel like I should pay you the money I paid that lawyer who gave me zero options. Thank you again.
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Well, let us know how it turns out because you would think that the nursing home would want to keep her and file it with Medicaid if they are a Medicaid faculty. I don't know of some of the fancier nursing homes are required to take Medicaid patients in that state. Check that out.
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claytimefun Oct 31, 2018
Oh I will let everyone know how it works out. They just gave me her 30 day notice today. Ball is their court. This is a terrible way to treat elderly. I'm getting on waiting list now. I'm 57. Just in case. I'm sure things and requirements will change. But who knows
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Oh hon, in the same position here. Dad thinks we filed POA but, no. He would not sign the papers. Scammers took all his money, Senior Protection Services have helped putting me in touch with some help, still struggling What state are you in?
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claytimefun Oct 31, 2018
Hi we are in Michigan
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Call Legal Aid. In my state (Ne.) they have an Elder Access Line, and the call is free. Tell them you are calling on behalf of your mother and explain the situation. They can provide guidance and advice, and possibly legal assistance if needed.
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Reply to katydid1
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AL will try whatever to get you to assume legal and financial responsibility for her and her bill. The “we don’t have a SW or anyone for you to speak with” is a total ruse to get you to go to the AL & sign onto being responsible.

If you did not sign her admissions contract into the AL, then it’s going to be very hard for AL to stick you with any of his. What AL will likely end up doing is contacting APS and APS will contact the court to get an emergency guardianship placed on your mom.

Emergency guardianships are done all all the time from an APS request. Guardianships are usually heard in probate court and probate judge should have a list of vetted by the state guardians. They’ll take over & deal with mom’s care and getting her financial eligible to get her onto Medicaid.

I’m assuming that your brother - who died suddenly- was the point person for all things mom. If so, guardian may need access to brothers banking if he paid for things for mom or their $ was commingled. If he died without a will, then he died “intestate”. Usually for intestate deaths all assets escheat to the state and heirs have to go thru a process to establish heirship (like you hire an atty to do a Lineal Heirship). In a way the court appointed guardian is ideal as he can petition the court for any heirship your mom is due from her sons death.

Unless brother died with significant assets plus a paid off condo, it might be easiest to let state take over his probate & heirship mess. The guardian could petition court to have mom be his heir and her needs and bills get paid from his estate when it sorts itself out. Unless you’re in a really big city, there probably only going to be 1 probate court and 1 probate judge. It will make things simple for the guardian and the state. You’ll likely have to sign off your heirship as would any other siblings but it could be the solution for mom’s care and it’s costs.

This is not going to be easy as you’ll find yourself wanting to go and take her into your home. But letting the state become her guardian can be a workable solution to the situation. If the guardian asks for info from you, please be ready to give him whatever you know. But if your brother was mom’s point person, the answers to many ?s related to your mom died with him. That’s your story and you stick with it.
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claytimefun Oct 30, 2018
Thank you very much. You are the first person to actually give me any answers. This has been a flipping nightmare of idiots i have tried my best to work on things but it's all met with sorry can't help we need your mom's permission. We need to speak with her. My brother helped her before the stroke. Mostly grocery shopping and things. but then he became too ill in the last month of his life so my mom moved in with her sister. Until she had the stroke. I think my brother's death brought on the stroke. It happened right after his death. So we never had a chance to have any paperwork for POA done on her. She did receive money from life insurance that we used to pay for her care but that gone plus the little she had in bank. Thank you for your help and information it has helped immensely. Kim
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Medicaid in Michigan doesn’t pay for most costs of assisted living. There’s little financial assistance for that. Seems to me you need to apply for Medicaid and try to get her into a nursing home as Medicaid pending.
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claytimefun Oct 29, 2018
Yes I know she has used all her money to pay for asst living and I was trying to apply for Medicaid to go into nursing home but I don't and can't get her info due to not having POA or guardian ship. She can't sign for POA due to dementia. So I don't know what to do
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Holy heaven, you are encountering a lot of utterly useless people!!!

A lawyer who says no sorry and can't think of anything more helpful than that? A facility that has no social work support of its own and doesn't stir its brain cells to suggest where you might find some?

Stone me.

But, exactly what Glad says. Keep going, you will eventually encounter someone who isn't a complacent brain-dead chocolate teapot. Remember, your mother is not the first person to be in this position and she will not be the last. There IS a way through, simply because the facts are the facts and they're what have to be dealt with.
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claytimefun Oct 29, 2018
Yes Michigan is terrible to apply for help. It's like like hide all info from you I even went to the dept of human services social services and they act like they have no clue about anything. They handed me form to fill out and said come back tomorrow. No help nothing. WTH. I went to social security office for help with getting her info. Nope I can't do that you can't file for medicaid until you have no money but then you have to pay asst living till she gets approved so you are. Screwed. I don't have the money or ability to care for my mom. She is very disabled. From the stroke I just want to run away
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We got guardianship of my stepmother. Here, you have to file it with the probate office I believe and take a short class and file for a bond. I guess it depends on her assets and the state your are in. Paperwork a little time consuming and you may have to get off work a few times at first and you have to file a yearly report.

But besides all that costly time consuming guardian stuff, you said that they are going to kick her out of the nursing home. Well, can't you just take her then if you are her daughter. My stepmother was in the hospital with one of her "spells" and I just had to go over there and pick her up. I'm may have signed a release paper or something. If no one else is involved, I would think you would be the next of kin.
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claytimefun Oct 29, 2018
My mom is very disabled can walk dress herself can't use toilet take two to three people to get her up and dressed and ready at the asst living place. So no I can't do it. Alone. I don't have money to hire people
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We got guardianship of my stepmother. Here, you have to file it with the probate office I believe and take a short class and file for a bond. I guess it depends on her assets and the state your are in. Paperwork a little time consuming and you may have to get off work a few times at first and you have to file a yearly report.

But besides all that costly time consuming guardian stuff, you said that they are going to kick her out of the nursing home. Well, can't you just take her then if you are her daughter. My stepmother was in the hospital with one of her "spells" and I just had to go over there and pick her up. I'm may have signed a release paper or something. If no one else is involved, I would think you would be the next of kin.
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Reply to Ageingherself
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We got guardianship of my stepmother. Here, you have to file it with the probate office I believe and take a short class and file for a bond. I guess it depends on her assets and the state your are in. Paperwork a little time consuming and you may have to get off work a few times at first and you have to file a yearly report.

But besides all that costly time consuming guardian stuff, you said that they are going to kick her out of the nursing home. Well, can't you just take her then if you are her daughter. My stepmother was in the hospital with one of her "spells" and I just had to go over there and pick her up. I'm may have signed a release paper or something. If no one else is involved, I would think you would be the next of kin.
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Reply to Ageingherself
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Call the ombudsmen, Area Agency on Aging. Or even try Adult Protective Services. There is help out there, it is making the right phone call.

And try another elder law attorney.
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Reply to gladimhere
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This must be unbelievably stressful for you. Follow Glad's advice first thing tomorrow morning. And this evening, take deep breaths.

It will all be okay, you know. Not even the most heartless facility will put your mother on the street, or leave her in her former home unsafely (they can't. They'd be in HUGE trouble). They can only send her to another safe place. There may be reams of paperwork and hours of chewing your fingernails but stay strong and it will pass.

Also. You do realise that absolutely none of this is your fault?
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claytimefun Oct 28, 2018
Thank you for your help. I feel helpless. I have started her Medicaid application but I don't have any of the information to turn it in and nobody will.help me due to no POA or guardian ship. My mom had the stroke before we could complete her Poa. It happened 1 month after my brother passed away he also had no will or anything in place so we were still dealing with his paperwork and death plus a condo left he was not married or have kids. This has been a nightmare. Yes I have plenty of anxiety I talked to elder lawyer who told me nothing I can do without POA or guardian ship. She could not help.
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Talk to the social worker where she is now. Mom likely could become a ward of the state since she doesn't have documents in place. The facility she is in now could become emergency guardian appointed by the court.

Social worker can help with medicaid application and moving her if necessary.

Just a warning, DO NOT SIGN anything the facility may ask you to. They may try to make you financially responsible.
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claytimefun Oct 28, 2018
No social worker at the place they told me to contact lawyer
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