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I keep reading comments about how y'all "placed" your loved ones in a home. How? I have been told by multiple homes that I can't place MIL in one without her consent or without guardianship. She can't continue to live with my kids since her behavior is so toxic. But we can't kick her out, either (morally or legally). We started exploring putting her into memory care, but she REFUSES to go; except in the middle of one of her tantrums, where she tries to run away, throws things and says she wants to leave and she hates it here. As soon as we tell her she can go to a home, she breaks down and says she won't go. Every facility I've called has said they won't take her without consent unless we have guardianship. I need a step by step guide or something, cause I am just not getting this!

Alazrielle, guardianship by you or the county is the only pathway forward to get your mom transitioned into a care facility whether she wants to or not. Do you not want to pursue it through the courts? Otherwise you will need to wait out the opportunity to arise when she is taken by the EMTs to the hospital then refuse to take her back into your home. Guardianship by the county means they can and will make all her decisions in her best interest (mostly medical and financial and where she is placed) and you won't be privy or involved in any of that. But you can carry on your relationship as you and she wish, with visits, and the guardians will ask you for input about her preferences of things.

I'm so sorry for your mom -- she's so young -- and that you have to deal with this...may you get the answers you need and the solution that is best for everyone.
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Alazrielle Jan 25, 2020
We are looking into pursuing guardianship. I have heard that it's expensive and we just can't afford it. She needs proper care. We just aren't equipped to give her the 24/7 care she needs.
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What a nightmare! I don't remember the circumstances of your MIL moving in with you but your profile seems to indicate she has Alzheimer/Dementia as well as some other health issues, are these doctor diagnosed and being treated or mostly your suspicions? My guess is you are having an even harder time (as if it isn't hard enough) getting help and guidance from the resources you have tried because of her age and it's going to be even harder to do anything she's fighting because of it as well. While she may just as demented she likely doesn't appear as old and frail as say an 80 year old who people expect to have cognitive issues (even though many don't and can be more spry than a 60 year old), invisible illness. I'm not sure how to fix that but it might help your dealing with the barriers. If she hasn't actually been diagnosed with Dementia you might have some other options as well because of her young age but that may depend on where you are and it isn't likely to be pretty if she isn't cooperative at all.

Now the shorter answer to your answer is when it comes right down to it, no one can put her in a "home" if she is outright refusing, even with POA, unless they have guardianship you can't do this against her will. That doesn't mean however that you have no choices. She obviously has some major issues whether they be a disease process, medical condition or psychological there are ways to approach each of these problems which it sure sounds like you need to do not just for you and your family but for her too because clearly she isn't getting the medical help she needs. That's something you can't provide, you can only arrange for it.
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Yeah, it’s catch 22. Not that you would mistreat her but if you wouldn’t provide a nice home she could threaten you by calling APS. I hate to read about people who have provided good care and get slapped by an APS charge.

So sorry that you are in this stressful situation. Hugs!
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I am sorry that this is happening to you.
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Alazrielle, the only way you are going to solve this is through the hospital. You get her in there and then refuse to take her home. Not easy to do but it can be done. Is there someone there watching her at all times now? What if someone can't be there, it would be unsafe for her at home. What would happen then? It is really up to you, whether you want to take on the burden or not, but even if you are willing to, you might not be able to.
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Lvnsm1826 Jan 23, 2020
Just wondering, when you refuse to take them home, does the hospital chose the facility or can you chose one?
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God bless ya, this is a tough one!
Is your husband in the picture?
Are there any other family members that could help?
52 is so young to be having these issues. Wondering if she would be willing to sign papers granting you or your spouse POA? Maybe if you explain that this will enable you to "Help " her with her medical care etc? Then her Doctor could speak to you about her. Sounds like you need a diagnosis!
If you have POA, you are able to place her.
Maybe try contacting Adult Protective Services. They may be able to give you more insight.
Again, POA or guardianship which is hard to obtain seems much needed. Legally her Doctor can't discuss her condition without at the very least having her sign the medical release allowing him to talk to you.
When I moved my Aunt to assisted living, I told her that her home needed repairs and she needed to stay in the new facility for a while. She wasn't happy, but she went. It's called a "therapeutic fib".
Hang in there!
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Alazrielle Jan 23, 2020
We did get a diagnosis of "unspecified dementia". Adult Protective services has been no help. In their opinion, she lives with us so is cared for. She is far too gone to be able to sign a POA. No one will notarize, or witness it because she is obviously not cognizant.
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Other than the tantrums, how does she function with her activities of daily living? Does she need secure memory care or some type of assisted living?
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Alazrielle Jan 25, 2020
She can't function on her own. She can't make herself food, except cereal. But she can't self manage her portions. She tries often to use my largest mixing bowl and will eat till she's sick if we don't stop her. She can't pick out her own clothes and resists help. She gets angry when I try to help her or suggest she changes clothes. She will eventually notice they smell bad, but think that she hasn't changed because of no clean clothes. She'll complain to me about needing clean clothes, and I'll pick out a few articles for her to choose from. I always act like I just pulled them from the dryer. She can't go out on her own because she refuses to walk anywhere but the middle of the road. When you try to get her to walk on the curb, it always ends in tears and screaming. She also will speak gibberish often while talking to us. I had a head injury years ago and have mild aphasia. I can understand her much of the time. But most people can't. If I take her to the store, she'll wander for more than an hour looking for something but not telling me what "I'll know it when I see it. It's none of your business". She will give up eventually but she'll cry the rest of the night over it. We know hardly anything about her so buying stuff for her has been difficult. Most of the time she yells at us that it's not the right (color, brand, flavor, size, etc.). She really can't live on her own at all.
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Alazrielle, I have the same problem. I can't place dad without consent or guardianship.
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Next time she has a tantrum call 911. The EMTs will take her to the emergency room. Refuse to take her home, stating unsafe for not only her but your family. Your young children do not need to witness this, and it in fact can affect them negatively for life. Can you get the kids into counseling? Even a couple of sessions to talk about what it's been like for them.
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Lvnsm1826 Jan 23, 2020
What if the person is calm when they come and the police cant do anything
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Alazrielle, you mentioned in a former post that your MIL gets some military benefits from her previous spouse. Is it possible that she be seen through the VA, get evaluated and to finally have that much needed brain study done (CT/MRI) to determine her exact medical condition, whether it is a specific Dementia diagnosis, or whether there are other organic issues, a brain tumor, or other Cerebral Accident that might have previously taken place in such a young person (51), and then what avenues within the VA system that might be there, for them to help you to place her? Check CV k with their Social Services department, request a Social Worker there too!

I know how hard you have been working on getting the proper care that she needs, but it is so totally unfair that your family and especially your young children are going through for someone who is fighting you every step of the way. You definitely need to have get her on Medicaid right away if she qualifies, so that when the time comes that she does have an "episode" that sends her to the hospital, you can Refuse to allow her to be discharged home to your home, you will need to be very specific and say that she is an "UNSAFE DISCHARGE", that your home and family life does and can not support her, especially with small children in the home who have challenges of their own, and do not back down to their pleas that they will get you the home support you will need, as from what I have read on here time and time again, those services Never come to fruition.

It will then be up to the Hospital Discharge planners and Social Workers to find you placement. Once she is in placement, you will possibly then be able to get her transferred to another place, but the main thing is that she will be in a safe place and that your family will be able to get back on an even keel.

Look for every opportunity to get her to the hospital for evaluation, whether it's for illness, idea's of suicide, or if she shows signs of agression and outbursts of anger that put your family at risk. There is also a option for a mandatory Mental health hospitalization, if the patient is "acting out", but I don't know much about this, perhaps someone else who does have knowledge about this will pipe in. You may even need police interaction should the situation become aggressive violent, but never allow your children to be in and unsafe situation. Your family should always come first!
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Alazrielle Jan 23, 2020
We went to the VA, and our local Federal building (where they sent us). Since we don't have any legal authority , the VA won't help. The Veterans liason at the Federal building told me that the insurance company veterans use is a separate system so they can't help me. The insurance company told me I would need power of attorney or some other legal authority before they could help us. We are now pursuing Medicaid , but the rep at the social security office told us not to expect an answer for several months. Hindsight is 20/20. If we had known she was this bad when we picked her up we would have taken her straight to the hospital. It wasn't apparent for a few days, and by the time we got her to a doctor, she's been living here long enough for residency. We can't evict her for fear of being charged with elder abuse or neglect. And besides, even if we could, we wouldn't. Where would she go? We may not like her here, but we still do care. We can't turn her out without being sure she is cared for.
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My mom wanted to go. We had to set her house. She never wanted and knew she couldn’t live in my house with her mobility issues. She loved her AL. Just at night was hard. We were lucky.
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For me, it started with a hospital stay.

Once he ended up in the hospital I was able to say that he is not safe to come to my home, I am not able to care for him safely.

I would do the research on the facilities without her knowing, get a needs assessment done and any vaccinations or tests that she will require for placement, we needed a current TB certificate for my dad. Find a place that you can take her to on short notice and when she throws another tantrum just load her in the car and take her.

I wouldn't tell the facility that she refuses, I would say that she is not happy about it. Who is?

Have you checked into evicting her or is it her house?

Sometimes we have to do really hard things to ensure that our loved one is receiving the best care available. You have to decide what you really think is in her best interest and be willing to do what it takes to get her that care.

Would some in home help be the best option for now? Is her care so labor intensive that she is the only one in the house that gets her needs met? Is everyone just miserable all the time or is it just occasional hiccups?

It is okay if you can't be a caregiver, it is not something everyone can do. You just have to be willing to do what it takes to get changes implemented and that means a willingness to be the bad guy.

Your profile says that your mom is 51, is that correct? Does she have diagnosed mental illness? That changes the story for me. Tantrums from a 51 year old get the police called.
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Alazrielle Jan 23, 2020
She is about to turn 52. Adult protective services and the police said they can't do anything unless someone gets hurt. And her tantrums are very irritating, and disruptive. But so far, no one has gotten hurt. It feels like trying to care for a toddler that you're not allowed to discipline. Are time outs acceptable for 52 yr olds?
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Alazrielle, sometimes we need to wait until the love one is at a point where we need to call 911 and have Mom placed in a hospital. Then from there they can go into a senior facility if you refuse to bring Mom back home.

Budget wise, would Mom be able to pay out of pocket for the cost? Or would she need Medicaid [which is different from Medicare] to cover the cost? Memory Care in my area is around $7k per month.

With your Mom's tantrums, you may want to consider having Mom tested for a Urinary Tract Infection as such an infection can cause tantrums, throwing of things, yelling, etc. The test is easy, Mom pees in a cup. If there is an infection then antibiotics are prescribed.
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