Should I bother to help my neighbor who is a hoarder?

If this lady is your friend an email may be kind of cold. Why not express your concerns while chatting with her? Express your concerns but then drop it. As we've all seen on TV, when a hoarder's stuff is threatened the person becomes quite irrational. Your heart is in the right place but don't take it personally if your friend becomes territorial. Casually make your suggestion and then back off.

From what I've read, hoarding is a psychological issue, and despite the tv programs on intervention, isn't going to be solving by finger wagging and chiding, including by psychological professionals. I've never believed that these kinds of confrontations with multiple accusations are really helpful and in fact just don't exacerbate the problem.

But apparently there's a demand for sensationalistic programs, and some networks heed that siren ($$$) call for increased viewers and exploit very vulnerable people.

I'm not sure there really are good solutions to this issue, but publicizing through tv programs in my opinion only compounds the problem and makes a pariah out of the hoarding person. Just my opinion, but possibly germane to your question.

You are very considerate to think ahead. I think how well you know this person, whether or not she would become defensive, and similar factors underlie the issue of warning her about possible intervention. How do you think she would react? If she's in pain, it just may not be possible for her to contemplate or address the hoarding issue.

What you might consider in addition to the warning is an actual plan, a simple step by step plan to break down the breadth and complexity of the problem.

If her valuables are stored in any particular place, start there, then help develop a plan for the most needed areas, little by little.

Find out what her favorite charities are in the even that some things can be donated. Emphasize how much she'll be helping people in need by donating clothing, furniture, etc.

If she agrees, start simply, one box at a time, and make it a time for relaxation by encouraging her to chat, tell you about her life, her interests, her family, etc., so that when you leave, she'll feel uplifted rather than overwhelmed or beaten down.

Do you know her family well enough to work with them if your friend is agreeable? Do others in the neighborhood know of the situation, and do you think any of them would make formal complaints against her?

Most importantly, are there serious sanitation issues or is it primarily a lot of stored stuff?

Another consideration is whether or not she'll be returning home after surgery or will be in rehab for awhile. The latter would probably be preferable as she'll get attention in a clean environment, attention and support she wouldn't have at home.

You might want to casually inquire about this, then when you feel she's receptive explain your concern in as gentle a way as possible and suggest asking her family to help secure the valuables.

You wrote that she has no contact with relatives, so that could be a problem if that's by choice. Perhaps her relatives have abandoned her.

You mention a coin collection specifically. Is this hers? Did she inherit it from someone but continue it? Either way, if she is interested in the coins, go to the library and borrow a book about coins so that you can talk to her about her collection. If she's having surgery she'll be needing some new things to do with her time. Maybe you can help her enjoy the collection once again by getting it out from underneath the rest of the stuff. Offer to help her document the collection by taking pictures with her camera, which is a good idea anyway for insurance purposes and for her estate planning. Play Antiques Roadshow in her home.

Be prepared for her to be scared about it getting stolen in which case suggest she make sure the coins are listed on her homeowner's insurance policy. Offer her your help with keeping it safe by making sure it's insured.

I hope you two find a Spanish galleon and I hope she remembers your kindness in her will.

The challenge of helping a long time hoarder would be very challenging . I don't think that I could do it, even for a family member. It's embedded so deeply and is so complex. Even mental health professionals have a hard time helping these people. It's not really about the stuff. I know that sounds bizarre, but cleaning, sorting organizing, means something different to a person with this disorder. From what I have seen, change rarely occurs unless the person is incapacitated and has no involvement in the matter.

I do think it's a good idea to warn her of what might happen to her valuable and put her on alert to gather her valuables for safe keeping. Would she allow them to be placed in a bank deposit box or with her attorney for safe keeping? It's doubtful a burglar would find them, but you never know.

If you suspect that she's not thinking clearly, I might contact her POA. Do you know who that is? If she doesn't have one, I would suggest to her that she gets one. I wouldn't accept it though. It would be a huge responsibility based on her circumstances. You are so kind to be concerned.

I wouldn't.

It sounds suspiciously as though the reason you feel at all fondly towards this lady is that you haven't known her very long. If you want to stay fond of her, do not try to separate her from her hoard. Someone will have to in the end, sure, but why should it be you?

Better to help her when she asks you to, and only with what she asks you to, and be the good neighbour who scrapes her off the floor and calls the ambulance when one of her treasured leaning towers of junk topples on her head.

If there are seriously valuable items and you're afraid she might be robbed - one way or the other - you could offer to take photos for her and store them on a memory stick. Don't touch her stuff. It'll end in tears.

When it comes to hoarding one needs to figure out what is background behind a person hoarding. At 70 years old, she didn't grow up during the Great Depression but her parents did, wonder if they distilled in her the need to save everything.

Others hoard have the items make them feel like they are in a safe cocoon, thus if someone tries to take away some of the items it makes the hoarder feel they could become a victim.

My worry would be your neighbor's surgery. If she would need to have to use a walker, would there be enough room for her to get through the pathways, into the kitchen, into the bathroom. If a walker is warranted, I would casually asked her what would she suggest doing to make it easier for her to get down the pathways. I think one has better luck if the hoarder comes up with ideas. But don't be surprised if your neighbor changes her mind later on.

I recently cleaned out my parents house, they didn't hoard but it still felt very overwhelming to me... to someone not emotionally attached, it would have looked simple. What to keep? What to donate? What to trash?

I don't know if someone who is just a friend could help in this case. I had to deal with hoarding by my parents when I first came here. If I had been a friend, the result would be that I wouldn't be welcome in the house anymore. The only thing that gave me the power to act was that I was family and that I was needed.

Hoarding can happen for a variety of reasons. Some people can't quit buying and have no organization skills to figure out what they are going to do with all the things they buy. Maybe they feel like they are investments and they will sell them for profit one day. But that day never comes, and soon treasures are buried under other treasures. Each piece has monetary value, so is hard to part with. This problem is probably worse now than it used to be, with so many people buying at garage sales, thinking they'll sell on eBay or Etsy and never getting around to it.

Other people hoard for sentimental reasons. These are the hardest hoards to get handle for someone. Each piece has some memory the person can't let go of. Other people hoard because they are afraid of going without. Food hoarders often fall in this category. Other people hoard to build a fort of stuff all around them. This keeps family and friends away, since there are no beds for them or anywhere to sit. Other people hoard because they're too lazy to throw things out. These last ones are the easiest to clean... as long as someone else does the work.

If the hoard is serious, I would recommend family and professionals to work with the woman to organize the cleanup. The method used in the TV shows is the one I've found that works best -- donate, keep, trash. The hardest part is to start the process going. The anxiety and anger can be terrible, so you have to take rests from it. Once the momentum is going, getting them to part with their treasures is much easier. Seeing their living space cleared is rewarding. They will need therapy and help, though, to keep from filling it back up.

This cannot be done quickly without being terribly traumatic. If I were just a friend, I would make suggestions, but not try to help unless invited.

Thank you all. You have made good suggestions. The point about the walker is well taken. This really feels like the whole situation is about to explode...

It has been made more complicated over the last year by the fact that she has a new boyfriend who lives two hours away. She spends about twelve to fifteen days a month there with him--a total escape from reality. This keeps her from dealing with her stuff. BUT she also has the risk that he might find out about the hoard and dump her--she understands that this would happen.

Yet, it is like the turning of the screw. He bought her a set of remote room video/security cameras so that she can keep an eye on her cats (yes, there are four cats...) but she can't set the cameras up because if she did, he would see the inside of the house.

He also wants to take care of her after her surgery--but she can't let him see her house. So, she is arranging to have the surgery there near his home instead of here with her own medical team.

The complications are becoming burdensome. I think I will just sleep on this for a while.

Many thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She has a boyfriend whose never seen her house? What does she do with the cats when she's visiting her boyfriend for weeks at a time? The boyfriend info changes my opinion of the situation. You cannot help this woman in any meaningful way and you're not going to "fix" her. If she ends up like the Collyer Brothers there's nothing you can do about it.

Let me answer your questions...

She has a boyfriend whose never seen her house? Yes, that is correct. Awkward.

What does she do with the cats when she's visiting her boyfriend for weeks at a time? It is not weeks but 5-6 days 2-3 times per month. Leaves them plenty of water and food and a litter box. Awkward and sad.

The boyfriend info changes my opinion of the situation. Ok, thanks.

You cannot help this woman in any meaningful way and you're not going to "Fix" her. If she ends up like the collyer brothers there's nothing you can do about it. Ok, I will google the collier brothers.

By the way, I did not mean to imply in my message that I live in a macmansion--I don't . It is one of those crazy neighborhoods where the houses on the water (like hers) are big and expensive but the houses behind (like mine) are small and humble.

Salsibury, something just dawned on me when I re-read your original post about your neighbor being in a MacMansion..... I learned this week that people who are experiencing dementia prefer to live in much smaller homes. Now I am wondering if all that hoarding is making her home feel smaller thus more comfortable for her. Have you noticed any memory issues?

It's interesting that your neighbor has common sense to know that if her boyfriend saw her home that he might leave her. You'd think the boyfriend would be curious about her home. I know if I was dating someone, I would eventually want to be invited to their home.

FF, interesting theory that the hoarding "reduces" the size of her large house.

I think in the future more will be known about hoarding, and hopefully will provide better insight into treatment other than shaming on tv shows.

Salisbury,
Your heart for others has always been in the right place.

Under the guidelines of protecting yourself, and
wh ether you believe it or not, No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.

It may be okay to distance yourself, reconsider the need.
Has she asked for your help?

As for mentioning the valuables, please don't.

1) That is when she may turn to the boyfriend for help and he will keep them for her, 'for safekeeping."
2) If she has privacy or trust issues, a bit of paranoia, dementia, the liklihood she will be alarmed by your offer and concerned about your motives is high.
3) Even if you don't help her, just being a friend is enough.

Salisbury, the situation you talked about is not unusual for hoarders. Many of them have lovers and friends who have never been to their houses. That would indeed be awkward. You could never let them get really close or they would see how you live. I feel sorry for her. I know she is going to have to do something eventually, but it will be up to her. I would help if she asked, but it would be a tough task. Hoarders will keep saying, "No, I want to keep that one because I might need it some day." It can be frustrating until they are seriously ready to deal with it. She doesn't seem to be at that point and maybe never will be. Sad, since she's shaping her life to accommodate her habit.

I think using the bf situation could be a good way to approach the problem without the problem being the main focus. Like when you get to talking about her worry about him finding out, say something like is the stuff worth the possibility of the relationship ending or having to hide it from him. Maybe if the seed is planted a change can slowly come.

I'd be more inclined to call Code Enforcement and Animal Control as they have some authority. All the other attempts to help have plenty of hazards and low chances of success.

When you're dealing with hoarding especially if it's involving seniors you have to be careful because a lot of seniors depending if their mental faculties are there will accuse you of stealing when the junk they're collecting is not even worth anything. Also you can get her some help whether she likes it or not because if it's a health and safety issue you can report this. The Collier brothers both died when their home was so overrun with junk that they were crushed to death. This lady needs help because hoarding brings rodents and other pests that can end up in someone else's home when hoard piles end up in the yard or where it can be seen. You're not doing anything wrong because hoarding is the leading cause of seniors getting injured or killed when stuff falls on them. Don't doubt yourself getting her help is the best thing you can do.

There's a hoarder in my neighborhood whose junk is outside, stacked up on the porch under tarps, in the front yard under tarps, and in the backyard under tarps and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it because there's no evidence of vermin. The police were called to this hoarders house by the neighbors who said she was feeding feral cats, which she was because she used the cats as vermin control. The police told the neighbors that if they trespassed to get video evidence they could be charged with criminal trespass. As long as this woman keeps her junk inside her McMansion and garage there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Fortunately, a lot of areas have codes that prevent outside hoarding. A lot of areas don't enforce them, because no one complains. When it starts to lower the property values and quality of the neighborhood, though, it affects everyone. I know my neighbors were glad when I came here. I probably raised the value of their properties $10K in the first year. :) My parents' yard was a mess.

Ha. Codes. Been there. Tried that. That's why the hoarder covered her junk with tarps. Her lawyer - because she's got lots of money to pay her lawyer to protect her hoarding - fought code enforcement officials and won against the town. The tarps covered her unsightly mess. Guess who paid the bill for the town attorney to fight this hoarder - taxpayers.

The reason my dad came into the life of the lady I care for is because of her hoarding and filth. She was still with it then (like 25 years ago). He's retired but has been a jack of all trades handyman since. His friend's mother was a longtime friend of the lady and asked my dad if he could help her out. She had 23 cats and they overtook the house, every surface was black with fly poop, I can't even begin to describe it all. It cost about 30k to remedy cuz not only did the nastiness have to be cleaned but all the floors and cabinets had to be replaced due to the smell and warped linoleum from the urine. To this day, if it's hot or humid the pee smell still comes out. The lady would sleep on a bare mattress that had fly poop all over it. She would use a bucket for the toilet cuz the cats took over 3 bathrooms. Anyway, to get to the point, the neighbors who are literally a 1/6-1/4 mile away would constantly call the authorities bc they couldn't have their windows open or sit outside without the smell bothering them. The authorities would come and this lady would tell them off and shut the door. Granted, this was many years ago and I'm not sure if laws have changed but the agency told the neighbors that since she has no children or vulnerable people inside, the house was paid off so she wasn't risking the bank's money and the house had numerous fire escape options they couldn't do anything to force her if she refused help. It's strange how she lives much better being incompetent than she did with her wits. So, if you're thinking about calling any authorities, I would try to find out what the parameters are for them to actually exert power bc even though the calls are "anonymous", it's not too hard to figure out who called especially if you're one of the few people in her life. It would be a shame to have it backfire and/or for her to lose the friendship. Good luck!

Nydaughterinlaw this situation is in NY, too. Maybe NY has crazy laws that favor the hoarders at the expense of the neighborhood but her situation was indoors, not sure what would happen if the outside property was neglected

NY DIL, isn't there a code enforcement division that addresses yard "clutter"?

Perhaps it's because Detroit is such a sinkhole and communities in the SE area have become "blight sensitive", but I've seen and heard about increased code enforcement monitoring to detect potential and existing blight issues.

Some of it has gone way beyond reason. In one community, I learned that missing numbers from a house can be considered a violation of building standards. In my community, neighbors have commented that code enforcement officers bring a ruler and measure the height of grass to determine if it's above 6". I do know that they drive up and down the streets monitoring grass heights.

At one time they even made all violations of every house available on line. A neighbor who's meticulous about his lawn and mows it whether it grows or not was cited for putting his garbage out before noon.

On the other hand, a neighbor told me last week that a nest of rats was found in a garage on her street. Now THAT'S worthy of action.

I understand the safety issue, especially for first responders who need to ensure they're at the right house, but it's not in the same level of violation as an unsafe structure.

NY DIL, I missed your post about how the woman outmaneuvers code violations b/c she has an attorney who's been successful in challenging them.

As to tarps, that's considered a code enforcement violation in my father's area.
I had to remove one tarp from his yard specifically for that reason. I was even asked to remove the snow shovels from his front porch. They're kept there for the neighbors who volunteer to clear his drive in the winter.


Hannah, I'm surprised that the various city codes don't have specific ones for exterior conditions. It does seem like the city isn't very aggressive about the issue though.

Can I tell the aggressive code enforcement officers to take their rulers and come to your area? I'd love to see them leave.

@GA her property was ok outside, she had a lawn and snow service. It was the inside that was a disaster and it was the stench from the cat pee that had the neighbors calling authorities. I can't believe that bc the homes aren't even close to each other so it must have been disgusting! I have a feeling she was so effected by her dad's death that something snapped. She was an only child and except for a brief marriage had always lived with him.

Hers is a sad state. It's hard to know what is the right thing to do. There's much going on with her. She may drain you. Be careful.

Dear Everyone,

Thank you so much for all of this free and most sage advice.

I have decided that I cannot:

Call the authorities; she would know right away it was me. I am her only contact.

Call the boyfriend who doesn't know. What is the point?

Help her with the hoard. You are right: suspicion, accusations of theft, etc.

But I can:

Ask for a contact name and number of a family member (to call when the police come around if she gets hurt, etc.)

Ask for name of her lawyer for the same reasons.

Stay in regular contact by e-mail and phone (she likes to e-mail). That way I will know if she can't get up or is for some reason unreachable.

You have made me realize that this is surely not the worst case scenario. The mess is in the house and on the back porch. So far no rats; just squirrels chewing up boxes. And, when it all comes crashing down, there is enough money for professional removal and cleaning. So, no intervention needed from me.

How does that sound????

Salisbury, I think you've reached a good compromise. You stay out of the actual fray and the cleaning up, but continue companionship, more or less from a distance.

Good analysis, good choice.

I would mention though that squirrels can do a lot of damage if they get inside the house, and they are chewers and manipulators. But I agree that it's not your obligation or responsibility, and based on the concern of intervention as expressed by others, I don't think it would be wise to get involved.

I hope you feel good about your decision? These kinds of choices are not easy ones.

@salisbury I think that's a good solution for now bc the situation is not dire and there's no need to burn the friendship bc at the very least, remaining friendly allows you to monitor the situation in case it does escalate. You could plant little seeds here and there, like if she has a pile of arts and crafts supplies, you could casually mention that you heard the school was low on art supplies and leave it at that. I'm assuming that after her surgery there will be some sort of nurse, PT, etc visiting and if they find a problem they will not have trouble reporting it. So, I think it's better to let it play out. Xo