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It is hard to keep it all in balance. I try and remember the oxygen mask in the plane. "Mama's put your own mask on first, if you pass out before you protect yourself, there is no way you will be able to protect your child."
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DTK, the disrespect comes in your description of your mother's health issues and the way that she deals with your father, as well as the way you've put your father down. You may not like it, it may not work for you, but it's their relationship and you need to respect that. Your father had to be strong or he wouldn't have survived what he has. Your mother had to be a very strong woman to be a military wife, be it either officer or enlisted. The women I've known who took that role on had to be or they'd have fallen to pieces. There weren't things like e-mail, digital photography and cell phones to keep spouses in contact or allow their sponsor to maintain their place in the family unit. They had to depend on their own strength to get them through because the reality of military life is that some don't come back. Give your parents the credit that they deserve, because they obviously did something right.

I don't know about your family, but my mother is the reason why our family managed to stay intact during the five unaccompanied overseas tours my father had before I was a teenager, three of them in Vietnam. She had four kids and about fifty dogs to care for and she managed to do it while she worked a full-time job. She sucked it up and lived up to her wedding vows, somehow managing to keep us all together while we waited to see if my father would even make it home, much less make it home alive. Now, my mother has health issues similar to your mother's, but I don't sit back and look down on her because she's got these issues now. How she came to this point is not the issue, nor is it my business to remind her how she got to this point. She's somehow managed to live beyond the predictions and long enough to need my help now. She has it regardless of whether it is convenient or what it costs me. She's my mother and she's the only one I've got. She took care of me when I was growing up and it's my turn to do for her. However, I don't think I'd make the mistake of treating her like a wayward teenager, simply because she deserves my complete respect both from me and in the way that I speak about her to others. She brought me up better than that.

In the Bible, Noah had a son who uncovered his nakedness --- in other words, he went and blabbed details about Noah that he shouldn't have. The other two sons put a cloak across their shoulders and backed into the tent where Noah was to cover him, showing respect. In a figurative way, I do the same with my own mother. It's not that hard to do.

And if you could, you might try to forgive your parents for being human and for living long enough to need help. It might change your relationships with them dramatically. And be grateful for the fact that your father is still alive and around. I lost my own at the age of sixty-two and I'd give anything to see his stern self again.
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Oh, Madge...

I've had family members in every single war we've fought since before we were a country as well. Um, stop living in reflected glory and what you think the reality of war was. My own father served one tour in Korea during the Korean War and three tours in Vietnam, but I don't live in his and I don't assume the things you assume on such a tenuous thread as yours.

Speaking of PhDs, where did you get yours? And where did you become an expert on the issues that military members deal with? Somehow, I don't think that you're a member of either.
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All...thank you for your insight and your opinions. I'm impressed by how many responses I've received. I'm still reading through them. Of those I've read so far...gotta love the personal attacks and the assumptions that I and others don't care for or respect our parents and their backgrounds. If it were all so black and white, so simple to classify, that our situations were just one way or another, we wouldn't need support groups like this. I'm afraid it isn't as simple as turning a light on and off. Our lives are extremely complex...all of us.

I did catch a couple questions in there, so let me clarify a couple things real quick...or at least attempt to. Hope you can follow my ADD-enhanced paragraphs below, as I review and see I jumped around a bit.

I was raised in a military family. My Father was military by career. He was very strict with most of us five children, but especially on me, my brother and my 2nd oldest sister. He yelled alot when we were kids, much as he does now...using intimidation to get what he wants. He is no especially hard on me and my 2nd oldest sister. I am the eldest son, and am the one that has been helping them for all of these years. My sister had a rough childhood and was always in alot of trouble. She moved down near them in order to also help. She doesn't have the finances, but she helps in many other ways, such as getting them to doctors appointments, helping them keep the rental house clean, etc. Everybody else is far away.

When my Dad retired, he and my Mother became Real Estate agents. My Father was not one that had an issue blending into society after the military. Financially, my parents were very successful for many years. They, and especially my Father, were very social. Back in the military days, we lived both on and off of base at my Father's various stations within the country. Therefore, Yes, I do know how military parents are firsthand.

Yes, I do believe most of my parent's current issues and attitudes stem from their losses. It had been evident since their bankruptcy all those years ago. Prior to Hurricane Irene, they were already in a bad way...my Mother already slept constantly, my Father was already demanding and agressive with his speech toward me, they were already very unhealthy. Irene didn't help, but wasn't the greatest cause of the attitude. It was just another blow. I stress, again, this Irene didn't start the problems. In fact, they were already extreme before Irene.

My parents lived with my Wife and I for about a year over 14 years ago, when my Father had a Heart Attack and Prostate cancer close together. That was at least a year before he retired, before they moved into our 2nd home. We haven't lived with them or vice versa since, and do not intend to going forward. They did intend to live in our 2nd home once we rebuild. That, now, depends on our decisions, because of all of the added stress.

None of this, regardless of what some here may think, is disrespect to my parents....either of them. I respect anybody who serves in our military, I respected the successes they both had throughout their lives. I do, however, disrespect the way my Father has been treating us, as well as my Sister, when all we do is try to help them.

I also love my parents very much. That would be why it hurts so much. If I didn't, it would be easy to send them on their way and eliminate the source of my pain.

I do appreciate insight, well meaning advice, wisdom or just a pat on the back. Please lay off the sarcastic criticism and open your eyes to a much bigger, more complex reality that is our lives.

I hope I didn't offend anybody, because I do appreciate your input.
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Oh by the way Maysabop, I re-read my posts and I don't believe I mentioned narcissistic personality disorder once (it is however a real disorder, especially to those of us who have had less than wonderful parents). So where do you come off lecturing everyone else about the military and how we should and should not feel about military people. I will have you know I have had a relative in everything single war American has ever engaged in. From the American Revolution to the present. Just because you are military or military career doesn't mean you have to have a bullying personality.

And DTKemptll made the comment that his father feels entitled to everything and projects his nastiness on to all the children in the family. These are two symptoms of narcissism, yes, narcissism. Now when you get your PHD in psychology, I will listen to what you have to say. Until then you are just another person looking for answeres to your problems on this site. So stop bullying everyone else.
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Ah, DTK, I see on your profile that your father does have dementia. That throws a different light on things. When was he diagnosed? What kind of dementia does he have?

This does not change my opinion on not having your parents living with you, but it raises new questions about the kind of care he needs and how he can best get it, how to protect your mother, and what options should be considered. Please share more details with us!
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DTKempII, is it the case that you are rebuilding your own home with the intention of living in it yourselves and also inviting your parents to share it? Some feedback from you would be helpful, to make sure we understand your situation.

Is it also possible to rebuild the house your parents lived in? Do you have insurance money to work with? It just seems to me given the nature of your relationship with them it would be a disaster to share the same physical space with them. Which is not to say you can't be generous and helpful, but exposing your wife to this family dynamic day after day doesn't sound healthy for your marriage. The is the primary relationship in your life, right?

I agree with Claudia that very often the caregiver situation reverses roles; that the children have to take on "parental" responsibilities. This is most especially true when dementia is part of the picture. Nothing you have said makes me think that you are at that point -- that you have to make decisions for your parents. But you are fully responsible for making decisions for yourself. You and your wife need to make decisions that effect your marriage together. What is her thinking on the subject of living with in-laws?

If your parents want/need help in figuring out their options if they don't live in the same house as you, by all means give them that help, with respect and love. I think Claudia's advice to separate yourselves from their drama is on target.

And, for what it is worth, I don't see what you have written as trashing your parents at all. You seem to be trying very hard to give us a clear background to your present situation. That seems to me exactly appropriate for this kind of discussion board. "Here is how I see my situation. I'm torn about what to do next. I'd like some input from others who have dealt with difficult family relationships." Perfectly in keeping with why this forum exists.

Please come back on and tell us what is going on, and whether you have made any decisions.

Good luck!
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Mayasbop, Are you off your meds or just a crabby old person? Just curious.
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So, let me get this straight. It's okay to be selfish and to treat your parents like children? It's okay to choose to diminish the losses that these parents have had if it makes it easier for you to have what you want? It's okay to trash your parents on a public message board?

Uh huh... Those are real solutions, aren't they?
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In order to be able to help anyone else you must have a firm and peaceful home for yourself and your wife. If your parents situation begins to affect your marriage, home and your own well being, then you won't be able to assist anyone! You and your wife must have a safe place to escape the chaos. I speak from experience. Keep your parents lives and dramas as separate as possible so that you can meet your own daily needs and by all means get help from your local office the aging. There are dozens of programs out there that can assist you. The hard art is the resistance from your parents but once you draw a line in the sand about what you will not tolerate, they really have no choice but to concede or make it all on their own. I faced this as well and it's not easy. Now I'm the parent and they are the children almost. Prayers and well wishes to you. The more you make your own life better, the more you can give them lovingly.
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And folks should can the narcissistic personality disorder crapola. It's the buzz word of the moment on AgingCare. It really doesn't apply here. It sounds good, because it blames the elders, but these parents didn't cause Hurricane Irene to come and destroy the house or their possessions.
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Once again, someone else is blaming the parents and congratulating this adult son for bailing on these elders. I can't believe that someone would talk as if these were wayward teenagers instead of the elders that they are who deserve their son's respect. And unless you're someone who has been in the military or has been a member of a military family whose sponsor has been in a war, you don't really have a clue about PTSD. It just makes the risk appear to be greater to do so, giving son even more reason for pushing his parents aside.

Even if the father indeed has it, PTSD didn't cause them to lose their belongings. Hurricane Irene did. Son and wife are building a brand new house and don't want his elder parents there. They're failing to even acknowledge that these parents had any significant losses at all, just as most of the people responding to this son. Son minimizes their losses, but their losses are significant. These are not wayward children, they're elders who have had a rough time. They deserve better than to be treated as such.

Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for the son or his wife. I do feel terrible for these elders.
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Hi Blusexy, I am in the same boat. Only child. Mom has moderate to severe dementia. Right now I am trying to keep her out of AL, but it is getting harder every day. To top it off, she thinks she has no money and wont pay me my paltry stipend to pay the rent where my husband lives. I am reading everything i can about guilt and i think you are very brave to be so objective and pragmatic. I may have to do the same soon; it's very hard. I'll think of you when I am feeling trapped and isolated. Good luck to us both.
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You are doing a great job hanging on to your marbles through all that. It so tough to get caught between wanting to do the right thing for your parents and sparing your own life from their chaos. I live with that every day in caring for my dad. It seems that no matter what you do there is just another crisis around the corner. You need to protect yourself emotionally and financially from that chaos. Unfortunately, parents are used to making the calls and do not easily give up control and if they are narcissistic, will not even see the problem with their behavior. You seem to be in chronic crisis management. Think of who you can put together on your team to help ease the situation and give you a break from the stress. This will give a chance to clear your head. Relatives, friends, pastor... These people may be able to offer some short term help and give you a break. Then make a long term are plan whe you can clear your head. This may involve getting a social worker involved. The family doctor may help and senior services can also offer resources. Use all the resources you can find. Good luck. My heart goes out to you.
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Hmmm...military...war zone?
Think PTSD and possibly related issues that make Dad’s behaviors difficult.
Virtually anyone who served in military, has some level of troubles with PTSD, regardless what it used to be called in whatever war they were in.
Dad's wife's ills certainly appear to substantiate what's been going on long term in that pair’s lives--it is complicated, and really should have some guidance from a good Social Worker.
There is help available, if military Dad would go for it, through the Veterans Administration. There has been a great increase in availability of support groups, counseling, and medical help to regain better behaviors.
But it might be too late in life to be helpful enough, to keep them in your home,
and, keeping them in your home might not be therapeutic for ANY involved.
This adult couple is in over their heads, regardless of why.
They need to have elder Mom and Dad OUT of their home--
WHY is actually not germane--the couple in the story above, owns their own place, and if the parents cannot behave themselves, they belong elsewhere.
NO moral guidelines require children to tolerate being abused--EVER.
Not verbally, not physically.
And, BTW, there is no good justificatoin for Hoarding; it is a health hazard for the entire property, as well as for neighbors in some extreme cases.
Repeated losses do not entitle anyone to hoard, nor to be abusive.
This couple need, and are asking for, help, starting here.
Where are the elders right now, while rebuilding is happening?
Might they continue to stay where they are currently [away]?
It sounds like they are currently living elsewhere; it is now that the adult caregivers are in a better position to continue them in that venue, or any other venue that is not at the adult children's house.
What's up with a certain poster flamingly running down the adult kids?
--Maybe the angry poster needs help, or fears losing something, and chose to inappropriately point their anger at this couple?
That is sad.
I really hope you find the help needed!
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By the way, even if the other siblings have bailed, it doesn't mean that the parents are the reason. Maybe they're just more honest about being selfish and self-centered. By the way, allowing your parents to live in your second home is not caregiving by any means unless you're actually there or you're paying the bills that enable them to live.

You know, maybe you should stop making assumptions based on who you know personally and pay attention to the details provided. You don't know these people, do you? All you've heard is one side trying to find a guiltless way out.
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Madge, maybe you need to stop with trying to add things to a discussion that have no basis in reality. And stop with the narcissist personality disorder crapola. It's getting old. It's not even relevant to this discussion.
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Are you there to see if this is truly a matter of hoarding? No, you are only hearing one side. You ignored the losses that the parents have endured. I can almost guarantee that neither of them ever thought that they would be dependent on their son and his good graces.

Let's see, you've called the father a narcissist with a sense of entitlement, but the truth is that you don't know squat about the father. You only know what a whiner has posted on a public message board to find support for not allowing his parents to live in a brand new house. How about seeing the father as an elderly human being with a sick wife who has lost at least half of everything he had in this world and now has to find a way to go on?

Spare me the comparison to your friend's life. Have they lost what these parents have? Have they come anywhere close? Somehow, I seriously doubt it.
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Mayasbop, you have genuinely added an interesting perspective to this thread. The ex-military angle, and the fact that these people -- all four of them really -- are in mourning for their losses should be factored in.

My friend's mother who hoards has not been in the military, and maybe ex-military horaders are more organized and more disciplined, but I can say it would be hazardous to live with my friend's mother. My friend exerts tons of energy trying to keep her mother's place safe.

It just seems to me that the areas of conflict and concern existed long before Irene. The fact that the sibs have nothing to do with their father is a red flag to me, too.

This site is a safe place for whining. We don't have to suck it up on this forum -- we can let it all hang out. Maybe in our day-to-day lives that isn't a good idea, But it should be acceptable here, where we share our pain and discomforts. At least that is my opinion.

In any case, the original poster has not been back to comment or further explain or interact, so perhaps we are just all talking to each other.
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My, my mayasbop you need to chill out. We all have the right to an opinon without finger pointing and name calling. This is not the site for that.
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Jeannegibbs, maybe if you stopped and thought about how you're comparing apples to oranges, you'd realize how ridiculous your assumptions are. The father and mother are grieving their own losses and now their beloved son comes onto a public message board and dumps his opinions about their reality for the whole world to see. I'd love to hear their side of all of this. It's a shame that they can't see how badly both have been trashed publicly.

Maybe it's time that the son stopped whining so much about his mother and father's life and sucked it up and dealt with it like the vast majority of military brats do. It's second nature to me and mine. He should be doggone grateful that his parents are still alive. I lost my own father over twenty years ago and I'd give anything to have his stern, gruff self back.
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Excuse me? Where do you get off talking about the military? Unless you were either in the military or a part of a military family, you haven't a clue as to what the military is, so stop trying to compare it to your situation. It isn't comparable at all.

Your question makes no sense to anyone who actually has been there. You obviously think that all military are like your CIVILIAN father.
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Thank you very much for sharing your insights, Mayasbop. Added to the exj-military characteristics we have a man with a hot temper, hoarding behavior, and a sense of entitlement.

In my opinion, this is not going to make for a happy blended household. And while this may be very different from narcissism, some of the coping mechanisms such as settng boundaries and detaching may be useful here.

What you said inclines me to be more sympathetic to Father, but I am generally sympathetic to narcissists, too. I am still inclined to warn against continued living together. I do hope the relationships can come into a more loving balance, and that can be worked on with each party having their own home base.
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Is this the question of which came first the chicken or the egg? Are military career people ill suited for civilian life due to the military or is there a personality type that becomes a military lifer? I know some who have had military fathers, all sound like yours and they often had a tough time growing up. I am sure some are exceptions.

My father thought of a military career when he married my mom. He was just like your father, controlling, verbally abuse, I never liked him.

I suppose everyone could blame their careers on their behavior but I don't think that is most likely the root issue. You need to live separately from your parents, especially if you lose your mother. It would be unbearable.
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Sounds like your parents have poor impulse control. You need to get them both into therapy. This can be controlled with anti depressants.

I wouldn't let them move back in until you are sure they're getting the help they need.

My Mom has many of the same problems,but not quite as bad. She was on anti-depresents for awhile and they helped, but she now says shes "cured".She is in assisted living. She is constantly shopping the catalogs and buys too much stuff, she doesn't have space for. She gives it to me to store and I either return it to the store or charity. She doesn't remember what she's bought.

You shouldn't feel guilty. They've made their own choices. They're adults and not your responsibility. A little tough love could actually help them.
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You are correct in saying that now that all their stuff and their home is wrecked it is the moment to make the big decisions. They have a lot of greiving to do for their losses. Grieving often manifests it self in anger and fear.
Good luck in looking for solutions. Have you looked into assisted living? My mom had great freedom and support in that type setting.
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I am an only child and my mother is currently in a Assisted Living, where she is suffering from early stages of Alzehimer's/Dementia. I am moving back into her house to keep it up. I feel so guily about doing this because a part of me thinks I should have her there, and the part of me thinks that since my mom needs twenty four hour care she is better where she is now, beacuse she may try and drive or wander off if she is at home. I cannot be there all the time and home health care is very expensive.I go to bed and wake up with this guilt. I tried one time ti keep her at home but she did not eat and became ill. I need help and prayers. My mom some time ago told me she wanted me to have the house. I still feel all this guilt.
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I didn't post the entire name of the book. The correct name of the book by Mary Edwards Wertsch is "Military Brat: Legacies of Childhood Inside The Fortress". If you haven't read it, you should.
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Being retired military and having narcissitic personality disorder is NOT the same, contrary to what civilians would rush to believe. I'm a military brat myself, so I know what I'm talking about. My father was at least as strict as anyone else's, he barked orders at times, he expected us to tow the line, but that's NOT narcissism. That's just what they were taught in the military when these men were serving their country, nothing more and nothing less.

Read "Military Brat: Childhood Inside The Fortress" by Mary Edwards Wertsch. You'll see that there are reasons why these men and women do the things they do and maybe find some much better ways to handle these issues.

Did you ever think that deep down your father feels like a failure now that he is dependent upon you and your wife for a home? Or that he's scared to death because he and your mom have had financial difficulties and now have all the normal issues of aging on top of that? Have you ever once thought that maybe, just maybe, he lost himself when he left the military because he, who was a part of a very rigid organization, doesn't know how to act in a civilian society where nothing is absolutely wrong any longer? You spend your life working and sacrificing and then, once you've gone as far in the military as your rank and/or age allows, you're sent off with an ID card, a retirement that doesn't nearly reflect all that you gave and a certificate for your wife thanking her for her sacrifice. You've served your purpose, you've given your all and now, you have to reinvent everything about you in order to fit into a civilian life.

Some people do it well, but most struggle with it, so what do they do? They go to work in a government job or they find work with a defense contractor to make the transition easier. And some struggle with that literally for the rest of their lives and never fully make the transition.
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Hi DT. I was anticipating answers and advice after reading your post, and was surprised to see NOTHING! You have a rather complex question: Now what? I'm not sure just how long your parents have been living with you and your wife. Did they live in guest quarters? And, where are they living since the house was destroyed by the hurricane? It sounds as though you are rebuilding with a plan of having them move back in with you. Maybe now would be the time to have a serious discussion, telling them that you've come to a decision that things will have to change in order for them to continue living with you, and if they (specifically your father) are not willing to make the necessary changes, they will have to live elsewhere. I'm not sure where they could live without any resources. Possibly all of the siblings could pitch in and help them get in low-income retirement housing. With your Mom's health failing, she may need assisted living,unless your father is willing to take on the responsibility. He sounds like he's still in relatively good health.
If you discuss with them what terms you must have them agree to in order for them to move back in with you, and they agree, perhaps you could give it another try. One thing for sure, NO MORE HOARDING/collecting. That would have to be firm. And it sounds as though your Dad doesn't actually complain to you. So who cares if he complains to other people. I'd just ignore it like your Mom does, and consider the source. He sounds like an unhappy person who likes to dwell on the negatives rather than the positives, and most likely will never change. Your Mom has accepted it all these years, so you would just have to accept it too, and not hold a grudge against him for the way he is. (As long as he doesn't become abusive to you and your wife, of course.) If you could get this right in your mind, prior to giving them another chance, things might be better. If you think you can't do it, I would just tell them that you are unwilling to go through more years of frustration and his unwillingness to show gratitude and make an effort at peaceful existence, and you can't let them move back in with you. It will be hard, because it sounds like they think you're all going to go on the way you were. But, you really need to get it solved before they get back in your home.
I wish you the very best of luck. You and your wife sound like kind hearted people, and your parents are very fortunate to have you!!
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