Help! 71 year old dad says if he doesn't get any more business (has slowed down due to Covid) that me and my 2 kids will have to move in.

My SIL is you in about 3 years if you cave into him. And I mean that in the kindest way possible. She and her H moved in with FIL (her father) because it was mutually beneficial to all of them. FIL knew he needed some help and refused to leave his home. And SIL and her family needed a roof over their heads.
Fast forward 3 years and FIL is 100% dependent on them. Their son moved out (but he was old enough to live on his own). She spends her days, every day, on the razor's edge. Emotional and possible physical abuse as kids has kept her and my H "in line" for many years. He is antagonistic and mean. Manipulative and uses guilt like a finely honed weapon.
He too refuses to socialize with anyone outside of the family. He makes vague threats about how dying would be easier. And he is a huge narcissist and everyone in nursing home/AL care is old and he's not (86).
Please don't let him convince you that this is reasonable. I promise you if my SIL could go back in time, they would have found ANY option besides living with him. And once you are living together it is a million times harder to get out. The emotional and mental toll it could potentially take is scary. And you are right, anything you've borrowed from him in the past, though most rational people wouldn't, if he sees it as a way to keep you in line, he'll use it. And you are likely primed for the guilt reaction whether you even know it deep down yet. I begged my SIL not to give in and set boundaries and now it's pretty much too late. Because once you do it one time, for people predisposed to control, they will expect that it is now your job. Set those boundaries. It doesn't mean you don't love him. It means you love yourself and your own family enough to put up perfectly healthy boundaries to protect the relationship.

You tell him kindly and gently that this will not be an option. That's how. You have an obligation to your son. Your father may well wish to commit suicide than move. That is not your business; moreover, it is blackmail to get his way, very manipulative, and shows you that even before such a move you are being treated very badly. I am 78. My prime imperative is to NEVER be a burden on my child. You are correct. Your kids come first. You tell you father that he is not alone in our country now, afraid, looking at a life going forth that is changed and perhaps not to his liking nor perfect. He clearly is quite afraid. It would be good if he would speak with a therapist, a Licensed Social Worker who counsels people on life changes, but the fact is that he wouldn't do that either, because right now he wants what is easy.
Be strong and be firm and inform Dad that your obligation is to your kids, and that even WITHOUT that you may not choose to live with him or with anyone else, and when you do CHOOSE to live with someone it will be YOUR choice, not his. That you are grown up now, and make your own choices. That you have REAL LIMITATIONS, and one of those limitations is that you do not wish to live with your father, now or in future. Be firm and gentle. Tell him that this option for him is now laid to rest, off the menu, and this will help him to rethink and replan moving forward.

Don't be a pushover...tell him no and stick to it!! He can sell the business and pay off the house like you said. This is not your problem..it's his! There's something to be said about your son not wanting to live at grandpa's. Do you want to break up your home for a controlling narcissistic possibly suicidal old man that has too much pride for his own good? Do you want to fall into his trap? Stand your ground and say thanks but no thanks. After a few tantrums the next thing he'll do is want to move in with you. Again, thanks but no thanks. Perhaps your job could be to find him a nice assisted living facility and for heavens sake get him to a Dr for a check up.

To me it looks like you have your ducks in a row and you are just looking for validation. Here it is, stick by your guns. You are right in what you are doing.

What's natural is you raise your kids to be independent. You may help them with College but at 18 they, in the eyes of the law, are emancipated adults. This is when you let them go to live their own lives (even if they still live home) and you start a new faze in your life. You do not cling to your children. Does Dad come from a different culture? Because how he thinks is not normal. Not that you can't be there for him, but he should not be relying on you. If he cannot afford to pay the mortgage, then maybe selling the house, paying off the balance of the mortgage and using the proceeds to offset the cost of an apartment is a better choice. No taxes, no house insurance, water/sewer bills. No upkeep. Just rent, electric and cable.

If you don't continue to set boundries, its going to get harder and harder to deal with him. He gets older, so do you. At a point you will both be Seniors. He has to let you live your life like he was allowed to live his. If he is not being treated for his depression, he needs to be. If he is being treated, I may tell the doctor what has been going on. If Moms death is recent, maybe he needs grief counseling.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, I apologize in advance. The only way Dad could know about your finances is if you have mentioned them. If he asks, tell him not to worry you r doing OK. Its none of his business what your finances are. As it is none of yours what his are unless he tells you. I didn't know my Moms until I started paying her bills.

Keep strong. Hopefully eventually he will realize its his responsibility for his own life. He is not too old to remarry. 😊

We all help when we are able to. When we are not able to, we have to let the people who need help know that they have to find other options. My grandparents helped my parents, my parents helped me, I help my son and grandson. The other way around should not be expected. I did live with my mom for 4 or more years and have watched out for her for over 8 years now, but that is because I can and want to. She's usually nice to me now, which makes it a lot easier, but I can imagine how critical she would have been had I lived with her while raising my sons. There's time to pay back your father in the future, when your kids are raised. I think this covid thing is going to go on for a long time, so he will unfortunately, like so many of us right now adjust to new circumstances. Be strong, but kind, and tell him exactly what you are able to do and what you are not able to do.

It sounds as though your father thinks he owns you. And you go along with it, as though it’s true. You behave the way he wants, he ‘lives for you’, no-one else meets his expectations, he pays you so he has bought you outright. This last demand, for you to move in, is making it very clear. The rider that even if the finances were not an issue, you would still have to move in because ‘he won’t have anything to do’, is simply laughable – except that it’s not funny at all. If this is causing you anxiety, is there any way that you can move away and get him out of your day-to-day life? You are not going to change him, and you really really need to change yourself. For your sake, and for your family's sake.

My step-FIL used to threaten suicide when he needed to manipulate my weak-minded MIL. Of course, we could see he was a jerk and too much of a narcissist to actually do it (and sorry to say there were times we wished he would follow through). My H and I have owned and worked in our own small business for 38 years through good years and bad. Your father is 71. I applaud him for working this long, but hopefully it's not because he's barely making it. If he could make a clear-eyed, non-emotional assessment he'd see he needs to tie up loose ends and close down this chapter. His whole identity is tied up in his business and he can't imagine life beyond it. On many occasions in the bad times we needed to step back and think deeply and unemotionally whether we needed to cut our losses and shut things down. Your dad needs someone who is not family to give him some perspective, like an accountant, who can crunch numbers and forecast how bad it can get so that he sees he needs to retire and clear up his debt and live within his means, with peace of mind and no stress.

I've helped my children financially and in many other ways, beyond normal parenthood. I did it voluntarily not expecting anything in return but gratitude and for my kids to not squander those opportunities and blessings. Your dad is in panic mode and can't make rational decisions, it seems. This is not your problem and you can't solve it for him. He is like a drowning person flailing his arms in terror and if you swim near him he will grab you and you will both drown. Don't let him move in. This is unsustainable. Do not lend him money (that's what banks are for). If he's maxxed out on loans, all the more reason not to touch it with a 10-foot pole. Neither are you responsible for his happiness. Much good wisdom and thoughts were provided. Please heed them. Unfortunately your father is a manipulative person. It's down right cruel for him to give you that horrible ultimatum of moving in or suicide. You can certainly help him in other ways, like pointing him to outside resources like if there is any free accounting help for small business owners from the Small Business Administration. Why didn't he apply for the PPP loan help from the government? We did. We're only 6 people. Also, what kind of business does he own? I get that you feel like you should help him because he helped you, but not in this situation. His business sounds like a black hole for money and he doesn't know boundaries. It is ok to put up boundaries for yourself. He's an adult and should be able to figure this out without dragging you into it. Maybe he can find a renter to help pay his mortgage (if he has one) or a subtenant for his business (we did this). I can only imagine the emotional stress and guilt you may be feeling, but covid lockdown did expose all the businesses that were already shaky, and his was one of them. I wish you all the best and peace in your heart that it is ok to keep a healthy distance.

Many years ago, my mother informed me that since Assisted Living was so ridiculously expensive, that she & my dad would be moving in with ME & paying me rent every month. I IMMEDIATELY let her know that such a thing would NEVER be an option, period, and to please remove the idea from her mind. That was the kindest thing I could do for BOTH of us, because living together again would NEVER be an option in my lifetime. Once was more than enough.

No is a complete sentence. Let your father know that under NO circumstances will you and your children be moving in with him, that scenario just does not work for you. Period. Allow him to make other arrangements for his future and understand that you will NOT be his safety net here.

Otherwise, prepare to give up your life & your children's lives to your father's whims and desires.

Nip this nonsense in the bud NOW, before your anxiety gets SO bad that you cave in to his demands!

Good luck!

I have helped out my grown kids many times with either service, money or whatever they've needed to shore them up temporarily. I have given such things with NO STRINGS ATTACHED.

Your father is not old and he is being abusive and cruel. Growing up with a mother who threatened suicide almost daily as a way to 'control us'--that's a terrible thing to do. It affected me severely...and only until I was in my 30's did I stop feeling responsible for making her happy.

Your son at 13 is wiser that was I.

Dad is not old, not by a long shot and he can figure out his own life. Ruining yours and your kids' isn't the answer.

Good Luck. And maybe tell him that threatening to 'off' himself to get your attention is harmful to your kids' mental wellbeing.

I am 70, DH 73. Your Dad is not old and should be finding ways to entertain himself once the country opens up again. I, also, see some mental problem here. First because he gets so emotional when you say No and the other that he threatens suicide. And the 13 yr old, he is seeing something in/with your Dad that he doesn't want to live with.

You need to set boundries now. Start little steps. The first being, "Dad, I will say this one more time, moving in with you or you with me is not going to happen. You need to get that out of your mind and start thinking of other options". If he sells the business and pays off the house he should have more money to live on. He now has to adjust to his circumstances. Hopefully, he will except that. Then you work on him expecting you to be there. Explain that you have 2 kids and a job. You only have so many hours in the day. Ten go to getting ready for work, commute and 8 1/2 hours of work. Then you come home to two children who need to be fed and probably are in extra curricular activities. After doing all that, its time for bed and the next day it starts all over again. You don't have time to be at his beck and call. At 71 if he has a business, he is capable of caring for himself. Not saying you shouldn't make time for him, maybe Sunday lunch out. Invite him for dinner but you do him no favor doing things for him. Your not his wife, your his daughter.

As an adult you get to make your own decisions. If you are an adult your father doesn't get to dictate how you live your life. With that said, taking money from him muddies the water. Please stop. He will forever feel you are indebted to him. You can't have it both ways.

Your first duty is to your children. I'm glad to see your son realizes this is a mistake giving into your father's demand. Keep repeating to him that moving in with him just won't work for you. So he gets emotional, so he gets mad. So what? (and if he threatens suicide, call 911..common tactic among seniors trying to get their own way)You can't live your life worried he will be mad at you. He can sell his business, find cheaper accommodations an find something else to keep him busy. None of this should involve you moving in with him.

Double post

The phrase "ha ha... no, we won't!" comes to mind.

Threatening suicide is a common way for people to manipulate others. Call he cops if he threatens it, and do not move in with him under any circumstances. He is using emotional blackmail, a very common abusive behaviour; and a GIGANTIC red flag that you must NOT move in with him. If he is abusing you now, it will get far worse if you live with him.

His failure to plan ahead for his own future is not your problem.

In regard to your dad reminding you of help he has given you in the past.
Remind him that you are in that spot now. You have children of your own to take care of and that’s your priority. He’s a young man relatively speaking. You will have plenty of time to pay him back when he’s in his Mid 80s to late 90s in helping him manage his finances and health care. Careful not to make promises you can’t keep about moving in etc.
You could be with him 30 yrs if you moved in with him now.
I want to second the suggestion that you seek therapy.
Your son at 13 threatening you he will leave is not a good dynamic. Not for him or your household.
Fingers crossed dad’s business picks up.

You already have answered him - "No" is a complete sentence - and he is playing the "I'll commit suicide" card to manipulate you and that is unacceptable. If he again threatens suicide, call 911 and have him picked up by ambulance. That may "sober" him up a bit.

Isthisreallyreal, has a great answer.

You are not responsible for Dad. He is being emotionally abusive and you need to call him on it.

When he gets emotional, tell him sorry Dad but you have to find another way. I will not move in with you, and you cannot move in with me. Then hang up, walk away, disconnect from the conversation.

If possible check out therapy to help you deal with Dad and reinforce to your son that he comes first.

In my personal experience men who have poor coping skills will threaten suicide to get their way. My response to that threat is, I will call 911. If they mean it, they need mental health help. If they are bluffing you are calling their bluff and they will have to explain themselves to the authorities. Here when there is a 911 call regarding suicide attempts or threats, the police attend with the ambulance service.

Sorry dad, I can not move in. You are a grown man and if you can not afford to live in your house then you need to move and live within your means.

Repeat as required. If he tells you that he would rather commit suicide tell him that it sounds like he has a plan and disconnect the phone or walk away, that is manipulation and it should be called and never entertained.

Stick to your guns, your children are your responsibility not your childish dad.