Have any of you gone against your children to place your spouse in a care facility?

Katie ; Happy Easter. I hope things are going well and that your DH is a bit appreciative that he is home for the holiday.

If you are one of many of us who missed out on getting a financial education, go to Bogleheads.org. You will find out that money is not as complicated as it's made out to be.

In regard to psychosis - although it is a real term referred to, often it is as simple as a urinary infection to be ruled out. Happens VERY commonly in the nursing home settings and patients act totally different, language, dementia issues. Always rule that out.

It should not be necessary to make him 'a ward of the state'. Rehab is covered for a certain amount of time with Medicare. After those days expire, if he still requires rehab or NH care, the self pay is determined on his income and resources (bank accounts, savings, etc). Some facilities are rehab (short term) patients only and some facilities are considered partly nursing home long term and partly rehab because they have a certain number of beds they use for rehab. You need to ask your doctor or a social worker at the hospital to tell you about rehab facilities in the area. Then go visit to see #1 if they have adequate staff (which means they show up in a reasonable period of time when the call button is pushed for help/toileting).

If he does not recover at rehab and requires long term facility, then you discuss with children and doctor. Can he safely go home and is there enough money to hire help at home. Can doctor assist you in getting home health care to continue physical improvement. Should he have to stay at a long term facility, your financial situation will be evaluated by NH Medicaid (Health and Humans Services in Texas) to determine how much might be owed to NH each month for care. The spouse remaining in the home is not left destitute by this process. If there is no money except, perhaps, social security and the income is low enough, he might be eligible right away for Medicaid to assist with the cost of his NH bed.

Katie, one point I didn’t see elsewhere. If there is money in the bank, start making withdrawals - nothing huge that will get questioned down the road. Maybe take $100 a week or a little more - every week. You will need a nest egg to get you started if you decide to go. See your attorney as soon as you can. He can advise you on the best way to about it all. Stay Strong Woman - Hugs from me in Florida.

P.S. Even if you ultimately decide not to go (but I hope you do), you should still have cash on hand. You don’t know what’s coming down the road.

The advice to take the opportunity to do your own "financial forensic investigation" is on spot.  Really critical.  This is a situation where knowledge is truly power.  You need to find out all about the financials, all the info you can, because your future depends on it and with this knowledge  your attorney can work to protect you.  If I understand the situation, you are wife, caregiver, housekeeper, etc., but are financially powerless?  OMG.  Get together all the info you can about your financial situation, account number, insurance, just everything, while he is out of the way. That will give you some confidence and power - you are not helpless.  A work friend had this situation happen - she accidentally overheard her husband and daughter talking, so that she would be impoverished. She was shocked - couldn't believe they would do such a thing. Next day she contacted a woman's shelter, got a referral to an attorney who explained step and step what she had to do to protect herself. She patiently followed through, got together documents, etc., etc.  She did not divorce her husband, but he died a couple years later.  On the way back from the funeral home, she quietly got the kids together and explained to them that Dad's plans were NOT what was going to happen. Her ducks were all in a row.   She did not want some kind of family feud, was prepared to be generous and forgiving, but she was in charge of her estate. Kids accepted that.

The rehab will teach him how to regain use of his arms & legs. If he has dementia...not mentioned....then cooperation is limited with physical & occupational therapy. But this seems to be something he could recover from. He has best opportunity in rehab...not home. If after rehab, he’s not back to himself, tell Social Worker you’re not capable of being his caregiver. The adult children don’t have a say since they not doing caregiving. They are only outside critics, who have no clue. Take one step at a time, but certainly don’t take him home if he can’t take care of himself. You can’t lift him or move him or you will get injured. Let us know how it goes. Medicare will pay for short term rehab providing he is progressing. Hugs 🤗

UPDATE: He was discharged to home today. The psychosis has cleared. I still plan to see him through his recovery but will be making arrangements to move out after. I want more out of retirement than this! Thank you all for your responses.

Tell them to take him to their house.

You mentioned that accounts are in his name. You may want to consider using this time while he is in the hospital wisely. Photocopy EVERY file that has anything to do with finances... bank statements, mortgages, car titles, loan paperwork, SSNs, DLs, passwords, account numbers, copy keys to anything important, use your phone to videotape your entire house and possessions, copy letters, gather lists of valuables, copy photos and letters, etc that may be important to you, go look in the safe deposit box, etc.

You don’t have to make any decisions now, but this gives you options. You then keep all of that documentation with a trusted friend or in a different safe deposit box.

You may decide you are staying with him. But if something hits the fan, you have all of the info, etc that you need to take care of business safely (you are doing it while he is away, so you don’t risk his wrath) and effectively (you can go to an attorney prepared and he can’t hide assets). You also have copies of things that are important to you in case he decides he is mad and will burn all of your childhood photos in retribution, lol.

Good luck to you... this is a no fun situation. You are going to have to make choices based on you at this point, even though it is hard. Your kids are going to have to deal with it. They are not the boss of you;)

how do you know they will “ hate you”? Have you discussed this with them ? If they haven’t been available to help before this they aren’t going to do it then. When you say regain” full cognizance “ , what about physical activity? This sounds way past something any family could handle to me. If they can’t accept that that’s their problem

Katiekat--

This is your chance to get away from this man.

You might make your kids mad, but if they're anything like mine, they'll come around. You've probably shielded them from everything nasty over the years, and even if he is mean as can be--he's 'daddy' and they are scared of him being ill.

Is there a problem b/c they think you'll take him for everything he's worth and they'll stand to inherit nothing? Kids of any age can be grasping...sorry if that's the case.

You need to take care of you. Even if it means divorcing a sick man. Sounds like you've suffered enough for one lifetime. You also don't sound like someone who would take more than "deserved".

Get an attorney. Let them handle the ugly stuff. If your kids are angry, well, let them be. Tell them that they can most assuredly take over dad's care. I know when my DH has been 'sick', my kids have occasionally been very critical of me. I would offer to let them come to live my life and take care of their dad if they thought I was so subpar. Not one of them opted to do more than visit him. In fact, one daughter thought he should have been in rehab after a heart attack, he was such a non compliant patient.

You know your kids, we don't. Don't stay in this miserable marriage unless YOU want to.

I have no plans to place pops into a care center at the moment. I hope I never need to. If a time comes when I can no longer care for him in a way that benefits both of us I will find another place for him and tell our adult children what I plan to do. If any of them want to step up and take him to live with them or provide another alternative living situation for him, I would allow it. Otherwise they don't get a say so in the matter. This is how I handle every major decision I am making for my husband / their father. With every major care decision regarding their father I contact all our children, lay out my plan, ask for their input and advice etc but they ALWAYS know that my decision is the final one unless they are willing to step up and take my place as primary care-giver. We have a great relationship with our kids and they are a wonderful help with ideas and advice in their fathers care so I would never leave them out of the loop. I do however reserve the right to control what I do or don't do with my life.

You do not need your children's permission to admit your husband to a senior behavioral unit for observation or placement in a care center. Contact a social worker at your local hospital for help. They will be able to a advise you.

Also, if he is still able to understand and sign his name, contact an attorney to get your wills remade if they are from some time previously, also a health will and directive, and power of attorney for each of you . This will give you the choice of who is to be responsible for your care even if you are unable to advise anyone. Your children should be considered, but chose someone who will carry out your wishes.
If you are needing state assistance for his care, you probably will need to have his name removed from all assets and placed in your name alone since they will be considered assets are will need to be sold to provide for his care. As long as you are living in your home, it is not attached by medicare at least in Iowa.

I would explain the situation to your children. If they don't agree with you then tell them the other option is for him to come live with them! I run into this issue all the time with well meaning children or friends. They are quick to say you can't place the individual in a long-term care facility but don't want to take any responsibility for the care of the individual themselves!

Don't let them push you into a bad situation!

Katie, I have to add, even if his will leaves everything to your kids, you can contest it and not loose your livelihood.

Are you scheduled to see an attorney yet?

Good time to start is right now.

You have so many people praying and rooting for you, I hope you feel the strength of it to give you courage. Hugs, go get em girl!

Why would you make him a ward of the State? There is absolutely no reason to do this unless you've decided that you want him out of your life for good. You can have him placed in a LTC facility without that. If he has private money to pay for his own care, you should be able to place him in a care facility. I would choose one that has step up to a dementia unit in case it's needed in the future. Ultimately, as his spouse, it is up to you to determine what's best for your husband, and what's best for you. I was my husband's caregiver for 29 years, and I was the one who had to deal with the 24/7 care, not my children. Who is his medical power of attorney? As for your children hating you, unless they are the ones doing the hands-on 24/7 taking care of all of his needs, so what? Caregivers need to stand up for themselves and not take everything that is pushed on them.

Only you live with your husband. The day to day care will fall totally on you. Do what's best for you and your health. If you hadn't had children, you would place him. Otherwise ask your children which one wants to take him into their home and care for him.

As you navigate this situation, be careful how you describe things. Just because he could end up in long-term care, you don't stop caregiving. Explain that you will be able to provide the best caregiving for your husband if he remains in long-term care. Your taking care of him at home doesn't automatically make it the best caregiving that he requires. In facility, he will get the assistance of three shifts of doctor, nurse, cnas, physical and occupational therapists, food modifications, and entertainment. Your job as caregiver is still rigorous as you advocate for him, work with his doctors, possibly take him to appointments, and provide enriching conversations and activities. I would keep the children out of the equation and leave the recommendations up to the professionals including an elder attorney who is hired to protect your best interests as well.

Katie if I am surmising correctly that you are battered down there are resources and support out there for abused women. From this thread it looks like this may be the case and you are looking for strength and support. Take the steps now to care for yourself while you don’t have him under foot. If you have close friends get their help too. Call a nearby woman’s shelter for a list of resources- lawyers and counselors etc. Time to take care of yourself. As to your husband his social worker will help direct his care but suggest the NH Let social worker know that you cannot care for him at home. Praying for you. Take care.

Katie, I've read through all the posts and replies now and I am so sad.

It is a terrible thing for a person to fear her children's disapproval.

Can you make a choice because it is *right*, and make it without including what Child A B or C will have to say about it? Could you do this with support, perhaps?

All I can say is I am glad I live in Australia. This man could have everything in his name and it would make no difference when it came to a divorce. 50/50 all the way and probably more if the court decided you needed it

get advice on how to go forward from here. Get support system going. Get a lawyer. Get all you can and get gone

No Dear, Dear, a Nursing Home is Near...Let this go.

I remember your previous posts. So tell me if I am wrong, husband has been some kind of abuser during your marriage. You allowed it so children side with Dad because he never had any respect for u so they don't either. If this is the case, then get out.

He will go to rehab which Medicare pays for 100% first 20 days. 21st to 100-50%. Supplimental may pick up some but may have to pay about $160 a day. Since he has been in the hospital so long he maybe in rehab a while. Since he has children and money, not sure if he can be made ward of the state. And if he could be, I think one of ur children may contest that.

So, while he is in rehab, you consult with a lawyer. Sometimes first visit is free. Even though money is in husbands name, you have been his wife for a number of years. He may need to pay you alimony. Even though my state is a non-alimony state, you can obtain alimony for 3 yrs to get on your feet. Your entitled to part of his pension. Now thats if you divorce.

You have to ask about being a Community spouse. As such, you should be able to stay in the house and have a car. Money will be split so you will not be impoverished. His money will need to be spent down to pay for his care. Refuse to take him home. You cannot care for someone like this. If children protest, tell them they can care for him because you aren't.

Really, there are ways to get on your own. Do u collect SS? There are senior buildings that charge rent on scale. U can find help with utilities. Food stamps, food closets. The only person who can help you is you. Use this time to get your life together.

Just because he put everything in his name, which was done with the intention of keeping you under his abusive thumb. Doesn't mean that you are not legally entitled to half of everything and if he dies, it's all yours, or does his will leave you impoverished begging for your bread?

Please follow Barbs advice while he is in the hospital and the NH/rehab. Your kids will turn on you or not, but enough of the meek mild kicking post for this abusive man. That's what sucks so much, they beat you down until you think what they say is true and getting out from under that is scary and hard, they do their jobs well, look how long you believed him. You can do this and you can do it with at least half the marital assets.

Please Katie, don't lay down one more day for this male to walk all over you. Find an attorney today.

Ps. Stop going to the hospital or rehab, he's on his own, no need to be there, he will be taken care of.

I'm speaking as a daughter here. If you were my mother and my father was abusive toward you and raised me to be a "good girl" and value his wishes over yours, I too might object to placing the king in LTC because I didn't know any better. But I was definitely not raised that way.

As a daughter, I hope you will take yourself out from under the king's thumb. Have you saved any money in cash?

Please listen to what Barb has to say. I agree completely that "you probably need to seek out a law firm that includes eldercare, divorce and estate planning specialties".

I suspect you protected your children from the king's wrath and kept the peace. They will see his true nature if they step up once you leave. And one of two things will happen: they will accept the king's wrath coming down upon them or they will understand why you did what you did and flee to their mother. Maybe some will do the former and others the latter.

What good is it doing you protecting the king at all cost? Do you want better for yourself? Do you believe that you deserve better? As a daughter, I would want better for my mother.

KatieKat, I just read your last reply. Something like "I don't think the kids would object to rehab, but they would to a ltc facility".

Why is this THEIR lookout more than yours? Are these YOUR children as well as his, or is this a second marriage and these are stepchildren?

My mom, who was caregiver for my dad with chronic leukemia for 15 long years taught me by word and example that in a caregiving situation, you HAVE to look out for yourself first, otherwise, you are of no use to the sick person.

I know that you hope that his abusive nature mellows. But don't count on it.

so Katie, just so you understand....

Rehab in a NH setting is still paid for by Medicare while he's doing rehab. No decision will need to be made about whether he's going to stay there long term for a bit. But the point is, it IS a place where he could stay if that's the level of care that he needs.

As for all the assets being in his name, well, is that a symptom of a larger marital problem? Did you earn any of that money?

You REALLY need to see a lawyer. Depending upon the amount of assets, if, when divided in half mean that DH is looking at using Medicaid funding down the road, the marital assets need to be divided in such a way as to allow you to continue to live your life. Medicaid does NOT impoverish the community (the one not living in the NH) spouse.

It sounds to me as though these decisions are even more fraught with emotion than they usually are for spouses. Consider seeing a counselor, perhaps?

Going against your children? You need to do for you and fulfill your needs first otherwise you will be of no help to anyone.

Do what the professionals recommend - this is not something your children have to deal with, it is something affecting you. If they disagree they are of course always welcome to take him into their home and provide the care themselves, but be absolutely blunt - being polite doesn't work, we all do it but it just causes problems - that you cannot manage and that this is the option. They'll get over it when they see how much better you are and how his needs are looked after.

Absolutely - this is what the doctor recommends. I just can't provide the kind of care at home that round the clock professionals can.