Has anyone found a devastating secret from elderly parents concerning finances?

NUTS to how your mother sees it! You and your sister decide what you are jointly and individually prepared to contribute to your mother's care. How your mother sees it is neither here nor there when you and your sister are reckoning up what you can and can't offer.

Your mother is entitled to have her own opinion and her own wishes about how her own life runs. What she is not entitled to do is decide what you and your sister do.

So: if maintaining them in their home becomes too much for the two of you to manage within your own comfort zones, your parents will have to accept and pay for additional services. If that becomes financially impractical, they will then have to move on to other options. But at no time will either of them be entitled to impose their wishes on you two in a way that forces you to make sacrifices you do not choose to make.

It's that key dividing line that's the issue: what decisions are whose to make.

As to brother - if gifting becomes a question you'll have to confront him about it. That grandchildren's trust needs a good hard look. But apart from clear cut points like this, what is there to gain from giving him much thought?

Quick point: "...Both financial and health DPOA. I would like to set up their checking account electronically to monitor their expenses."

You can do this with your parents' consent very easily, and if you put it to them tactfully why wouldn't they agree? Without it, it's a no. DPOA does not overrule your parents' instructions unless/til they are legally incompetent; and if it's a "springing" one not until it's "sprung." Get some leaflets and show them how it works, I should - no reason it should trouble them.

As long as you do mean "monitor." Of course. Not "control."

Springing... um, hang on.

It is a form of power of attorney that lies in wait in your filing cabinet until your parent loses his marbles, to use the technical term, at which point it springs - or rather you spring - into action. It is Durable in the sense that its authority continues after the time when the principal has lost the ability to create a power of attorney.

Over here they're called Lasting, and used to be called Enduring, POAs; but they work the same way. What seems to vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction is what you have to do to put the thing into operation when you judge it's become necessary. Your family lawyer, or whoever helped set up your POA, should be able to tell you.

Oy vey, Abby.

Right. What it sounds like is that you have two prickly private parents. I don't argue with their wish for privacy, that's fine as far as it goes. But it stops being fine when they then require you to take responsibility.

They cannot have it both ways. To do what THEY are asking you to do, i.e. to support and as far as possible act on their wishes, in their best interests, you also have to be trusted with complete information.

I too would love to bestow blessings without limit on my descendants. Who wouldn't? But the time is coming when everything has to be laid out, thought through, and organised; so that their resources are matched as far as possible to their own priorities.

Forum members are very good at suggesting what species of professional you might like to get on board to help with the various aspects of planning, so I hope someone will come along and tell you where to look. Don't forget: you don't need your parents' permission to take advice.

Abby

Some banks will accept your DPOA and some won’t.

We’ve had a few posters who really had a hard time with this with certain banks. It seems the bank has their own form they wanted signed and parents not able to sign.

Some posters have opened online accounts in order to pay their parents bills when the parents were incapacitated in one way or another. This didn’t require the parent to be involved and your DPOA may give you authority. You need to read it.

The simplest thing would be to take dad to the bank and have him put your name on the account. The simplest but maybe not the easiest.
Dad may not be willing to act without your mom’s approval. When there has been an event like your mom’s hip surgery, a parent can see the need to have things in order. It’s a good time ( aside from the secrets) to dust off the DPOA and give it a good read.

Also, please know that depending on your parents competency status, your parents can change their POA.

Its not unheard of for another sibling to get a parent to change the DPOA. So if mom gets upset and calls out for brother, there is that to consider.

You might want to seek the counsel of a NAELA or CELA certified elder attorney to guide you through this. A long trusted family attorney may or may not know what it takes to protect your parents access to Medicaid should that ever be an issue.

Who is the executor of their wills?

No advice. Just support to you & your sister. I am so sorry to read this.

Hi. I have sent you a private message in regards on how to be in charge of the money. Go to your profile page. It works. I have done it

Abby, I was thinking about all the money that was gifted out, and the issue with Federal Income Tax reporting regarding gift taxes. Not everyone realizes that giving a gift of money to one individual there is a limit each year, and anything over that limit, they need to file a Gift Tax form.....

.... this is something you may want to say in passing to your parents so maybe they will think twice the next time your brother thinks your parents are his personal ATM machine.

Abby, what's the age range of brother's children?

I'm wondering how afraid your parents might be of jeopardising their relationship with these grandchildren if they don't keep the harem sweet through these subsidies.

There are two ways round to look at this: as your parents' bribing their DILs, or as the DILs blackmailing your parents, or maybe a bit of both, or - most likely - none of the parties intends anything of the kind but it just sort of emerges from circumstances.

Trouble is, your parents are going to need that money. Hmmmmm.

Abby,

I hope you get it sorted out. Why is is always complicated when it could be so much easier? We as children are always looking out for our parent’s welfare but we end up causing ourselves so much additional stress in our lives. We have a computer in our home. My mom insists on everything being done like it was back in her day. She would never allow me to do anything electronically. She won’t even get a debit card. Still writes checks for everything! Pain in the butt!

Money your parents give to your brother so that he can, er, afford his child support payments *will* have ramifications for Medicaid if the timing doesn't work out.

The 25 year old should be past needing too much regular help, no? What's s/he up to?

The 16 year old it's reasonable to see as an ongoing commitment for 5 years. Any idea what his/her plans are?

Not that they're your problem! But these are the sort of questions your parents need to consider. They can't continue as is, that's for certain.

Abby that sounds like a reasonable request on your part. Please let us know how this works out. We have your back!!

Woah, Abby.

What you want first of all is full disclosure. You NEED to know ALL the facts, from five years back up to now and as far forward as possible.

Don't charge in there with a demand that they cease all payments to your brother. In fact, do not allow any comment on your brother to pass your lips for the time being. You *know* that this is going to be a delicate and emotional issue that will require deft handling over time. Do not give them an ultimatum you may regret.

You let your brother know he has to start paying them back. NOW. If he won't, he gets nothing. You can sell his share of things to pay back the estate or your parents depending on what happens.
As to your parents, let them know you love them and that you'll be placing them in a smaller home (NH/AL) and putting them into therapy for what they've become. Favoritism sucks and your parents need to know and understand the ramifications of their mistakes.

It sounds to me like your dad is the saner parent. You want to clear the air with him, yes?

In this situation, and since your parents are financially comfortable, a certified Geriatric Care Manager working with an eldercare attorney would seem like a reasonable plan. Your parents need to hear that they are being bled dry from professionals, not from you.

I think that your holding POA without full disclosure is nuts. Let dad know that you will not be caring for mom, but will arrange for care at home or in a facility.

I just choked on my coffee.

"What I did find out in the interim is that my father took out a loan for $28k so my brother could buy a new Jeep for his wife..... and wondering how this will play in with the look back?"

When?

Never mind the lookback just for a moment. I'd be more concerned about the smell of coercion and abuse.

Yes. After my mum died I found that my parents had 'lent' (with no chance of it being repaid) £100,000 to my sister and her husband 10 years before, so that they could buy a second house in the countryside (they already owned a large house). This was at a time when my husband and I were really struggling in a small house with four children, a similar amount of money would have transformed our lives. My father realised it was an awful thing for them to have done secretly and has made sure I've been recompensed since but I'm still pretty upset that it ever happened. I would take it up with your parents and make it clear that it is not acceptable, even if just to clear the air.

Dear Jesus...Yes......ME...My family Backstabbed me when I went off to NC and a Fight arose and they all went to the Lawyers office and Deceived me....Mom and I did then make up before going on her Deathbed...But a Hard Nut to swallow..
Let it go, God will Guide you in the end, dear...You will be Rewarded with More than Money, Honey.....Wings and Things...

In regard to your POA...I've never seen a scenario where 'full financial disclosure' was ever given by the parent. Your parents have left you out of the loop where your brother is concerned for a reason, you 'girls' would not approve and obviously they didn't need or want your approval. Its their money and until they are incapable of managing it, you really have no say in the matter. Should your parents require Medicaid your brother will have the look-back problem. He will be required to pay back, not you.

I say this as I am in a similar situation as you. On the upside, at least you know where the money went. At least it stayed in your family.

I have DPOA for my mother. My alcoholic Mom has throw away much money over the years. We will never know where most of it went. She came to a point where she could no longer could afford her home. After she told me of the 2 mortgages and several credit cards, there was little alternative except to recommend she allow me to ready her home for sale (my cost 36K)and sell the home. She repaid my cost after the sale and paid off the CC's. She then moved into an apartment my husband and I built for her in our home.

As it is our family's custom to care for the elderly of our lineage for the remainder of their days, and not pass the burden to the taxpayer, mom 'gifts' us the tax-free amount as allowed by law, which in her case is about 1/4th of her income. The rest she is free to spend as she chooses, often on her 4 great-grandkids.

You were chosen as POA for a reason, YOU are the responsible adult and can be trusted to make wise decisions for them when they are no longer capable. Wherever the chips fall, it would be wrong of you to 'threaten' to withdraw from the POA. Offer your guidance without threat. As you are the trusted 'adult' now need your help more than ever.

Well. When my father was already diagnosed with alzheimer and I got a POA to manage his pension, I realized he was being discounted monthly an amount of money for child support. Yup. I discovered I had a brother. He had an affair many years ago, with a colleague at work. It seems they had a child he didn´t wanted to recognize. For me it was awful, since my mother had no idea of this affair. Anyway I never told my mother, for respect to her health state, se had cancer and died last year. I just kept the secret. This brother is an adult now, and he is still receiving this money. I take the heavy duty of caring for my father day after day and receive nothing, I am only child. My father was left in total economic ruin 20 years ago where he lost literally everything he owned, due to bad decitions. I found this awful truth also. I was in shock for many years with this side of my father I didn´t knew. Now ... it is hard to care for him with little money he left. It is unfair, but it is just the way it is.

My advice is to tell your parents that you are confused about them giving your brother the money. You can ask in a respectful way;
“Why?” for your own edification. Because if you out live them you’ll never know the real reason, and what you assume may be totally wrong. My parent is no longer able to explain to me the justification for an amazing amount of favoritism. I now wonder if my parent even thought of it as favoritism. I wish I had just asked; “Why?” Now I’ll never know. On another note, it is their money and what they do with it is their right. So whatever you do, don’t be accusatory, but rather ask for clarification. Good luck.

First of all, do you know that they don't have inheritance set away for you? It's tough when parents are so secretive. My mother dangles the will over my head (her only surviving child) and the grandkids, trying to entice us and keep us in her favor and available to do thing for her, including telling me it's mine, but I have to care for her (I tried, but she backed out at the last minute so who does it go to now? There are plenty of hopefuls. She says she changes her will every year. I think some elderly parents think their kids just want them for their money, and would even knock them off for it. Crazy and insulting. Whereas, my mother-in-law, who was a wonderful and loving person, sat down with her sons and put it all in writing, which was comforting for them and made life easier and less of a worry. For the other parents like my mother, yes it does make us feel loved and important to be thought of and left a gift. I got a sock and suitcase of my dad's when he died and he left it all to my mom when he died and said it was in a trust and would go to my brother and I after my mom dies. Trusts can be changed. Fat chance. My mother did help me when I moved to a new place and started a business. She said it was my inheritance, and "do I want more". "No", I told her, "I may need it later after she passes". So with your parents, it's possible they have some put away for you. I would ask your dad to sit down, do the POA, and ask him to go over the will so you know where thing are should he go into assisted living. Afterall, you need to know if there are the funds to cover his and settle the estate. Hopefully he will agree.

Yes. I have experienced the same thing. I have 5 siblings and my mother favors my youngest brother who is now 45. She sold my dad's house when he died and got $590,000 from it and my brother milked her for so much money. She gave him $30,000 to pay his backed mortgage payments, bought him a Cadillac and gave him a credit card for gas, food, etc. And all she did for me was buy me a cup of coffee. I guess she thought I was completely self sufficient and didn't need anything because I did not ask for anything. I do ask for my some of my dad's statues which she also gave to my brother instead. Very hard to deal with a parent who favors one child over the other. It kind of made me feel distant from her because she did not favor me at all. So I moved away and now I feel bad she is 81 and fending for herself because no one really visits her anymore.

Additionally, since my mother backed out of me caring for her, she has charmed her way into the home of a grandchild, I assume promising them the bulk of my inheritance for caring for her. I can say this, as my friends said to me when her move-in with be fell through, I really "dodged a bullet"! What if any inheritance might have been left after she passes, my next few years probably would have been the likes of some of these caregiver horror stories, judging from how abusive she became during the move process. It was a wake-up call for me and since then I have put together my game plan to not have to rely on her inheritance; to save, keep working, plan fir insurance and my own medical and life expenses. If she leaves me anything that will be nice, but I'm not counting on it. This wake-up call helped me so much by relieving the emotional component of feeling loved by my mother wanting to pass on an important gift to me, as her mother did her, and her grandmother before. I may be the invisible and skipped one in line and I'd rather not be involved in her final plans and not know how much of my inheritance, if any was left, was given to others she favored more because it hurts. I am so much happier and feel in control. If your father won't sit down, then you may want to move on about this.

Abby, I have reread this thread. I am so angry for you. Your parents have disrespected your sister, you, and both of your families. I can't understand why you would continue to do anything for them.

They want their money to be saved to be divided equally amongst you, your sister AND YOUR BROTHER????

It's hard to have a crystal ball, but do you think they can last 5 years in their current living situation (at home)? If so, I would tell your father that you and your sister want $200,000 each NOW to make up for this gross favoritism. That leaves your sister's and your children without money your brother's kids got, but I'm not sure that part can be fixed.

And once that is done, resign as POA (and your sister can't be POA, either). Your parents' future caregiving needs will not be your concern. After the way they have treated your sister and you, they deserve some consequences.

Abby, what sort of contact do you have with your brother?

Who the h3ll gave an 89 year old man a $28K loan, and on what terms?

What they did with their own money has been one thing. Your father's taking on this *debt* for your brother's benefit shifts the whole issue into a different league.

What kind of POA did they give you (it's for both of them, one each, is it?) and when?

Keep calm. But get busy looking for that experienced attorney - unless you already have one you have confidence in?

You might want to have your parents talk to a friend they trust that has financial advisor experience. If they need long term care placement in the future and eventually can't afford it, they may need to get on Medicaid to cover placement costs. In Kansas the State looks back 5 years regarding bank records, etc. Even if people "give away" money during that time, it is still considered in filing for Medicaid and could postpone them being eligible. Your parents may listen to an outsider if they know they have their future best interest in mind. -- As far as them giving money to your brother, that was their choice. It's unfortunate that causes hard feelings for you and your sister though. I'm sorry.

Purposely decide to let it go. If you and your sister dwell on it, repeatedly discuss the injustice of it, etc. it will fuel resentment. Everytime your parents’ situation becomes difficult and stressful that little detail (that you should not have known) will build to rage and cloud your judgement. Focus on the plan not the past.

Abby 2018 ; We all have skeletons in our closits if you want answers go to your brother there may be A very good reason for this money to be given and PLEASE DO NOT Quit being the POA you are poa because your parents trusted you to do this ..they need your rational judgement .Jealousy is a poisen !! Parents can not always be fair !! Sometimes 1 child needs more than another I am a parent of 3 of my own kids and took in my sisters 4 kids I can tell you I already know I have done things differently with each ....and everyone of them because they needed my help in different ways and I already know in my old age I know who will be the one to do what needs to be done financially and physically and I beleive my kids all know tooo it just is an unspoken thing sometimesthat happens .Just ask your brother why ?dont upset your parents at this time whats done is done Maybe your brother needed a lawyer because he was in trouble snd your parents helped him maybe he needed drug rehab or gambeling debt and they wanted to keep it a secret bottem line its your family and you love your family ya all need eachother please just let by gones be by gones Talk to your bro not parents of just politleyask dad but dont withdraws your POA in a way its a big compliment your parents know who the responsible one is the go to person ..your paveing your way to heaven Good Luck and try not to be mad yesterday is gone, today is here ,and tomorrow will come .