My Grandfather's wife has POA and is placed in a long term facility unjustly. He does not need to be in there. Any advice?

Gladimhere: They do delay calling. One time my mother waited 30 minutes with shortness of breath! Great point!

His wife is not old she's in her early 50's maybe 51 or 52. But he's not in need of 24/7 care that was determined earlier today. He will have an aide come to the house 2 or 3 days a week to assist with anything but he showers, toilets, and dresses himself so Im not sure what they will be doing. Probably checking to make sure his wife is not in a pill enduced coma...... I digress. He's coming home and we have an action/care plan. Thank you God.

OMG New2this u sound just like my mother! Hehe! She was obviously more emotional, as thats her father, than the rest of us and she said in the meeting "maybe you need to be here not him" Ahhh It were def moments where I cringed during the meeting but overall we got what needed to be accomplished accomplished. Good luck to your dad Im sure he's grateful being home. Our parents/grandparents work their whole lifes to get what they have and to be where they are. I just pray more people listen to our loved ones to see what they want or what they feel is best and where they want to be. The older ones in our family are the wisest. We need to get back to listening to them more.

FF, is very right. Often elders will delay in calling for help when it is an emergency situation. A couple of years ago mom was exhibiting stroke symptoms, slurred speech, couldn't walk. I told her hubby, L, that I thought we should call an ambulance. He responded "I don'tthink she needs that yet". I looked at him and picked up the phone, dialed 911. EMT's thought is was a stroke, emergency room staff thought it was a stroke. What was it? Not a stroke, but a urinary tract infection that kept her hospitalized for three days.

And good for grandpa's wife to speak up that she is not able to provide care for bim any longer. And yes, perhaps she needs assisted living or nursing home herself. Who has her POA's?

Kkahll, sounds like a good solution for your Grandfather, hope it works out great. And I give credit to your Grandfather's wife speaking up saying that she cannot physically take care of him in his current condition, due to her own medical issues. Not everyone is cut out to be a caregiver. Some go into sheer panic at the slightest thing and pass out before calling 911 for their spouse who needs help.

On the other side of the coin my Mom had been in denial that she could no longer physically take care of my Dad, we tried caregivers and she fired them, we wanted to age proof the house which she didn't want, etc. At this very moment my Mom is now in long-term-care because of her stubbornness trying to prove herself right. And Dad is at home now with caregivers helping him.

Kkhall, Congratulations! :-) Good job! If the wife is that unable to function, maybe she needs to be in someplace so Grandfather does not have to stress and look after her? Sounds like he's in a good financial position for the at home care he'll need. :-) The fall risk is scary, I know, my Dad who is the same age as your Grandfather started to fall periodically. At 1st the neurologists thought it was post polio since he had polio as a child. Two months ago we found out it is Parkinson's. I worry about his future. But for now he's getting around much better with a walker and making improvements with weekly PT. He'd do terrible in a "facility", he's too sharp for that like your Grandfather. I have to think that there are a lot of young handicapped people living at home, wheel chairs and walkers, rails, so that's where he should be too. Good Job!!!

kkhall, that is great news, rarely does it work out so easily and so quickly.

One suggestion, get him a medic alert fall system. They are either pendants to be worn around the neck, or a wrist band. If he falls an nobody is there the system will call him via an intercom system to see if he is alright and if he needs help up. There are two types of these systems, one that senses the fall should be become unconcious, the other requires him to push a button to call for help. Problems with both? Getting them to wear them.

Wow kkhall143! Congratualtions on stepping up for a very quick and authentic solution! You rock!

gladimhere my mother is moving to take a position in Texas. Its a great opportunity and the family supports her. Timing isn't perfect but we must do what we must in order to live the life we are all striving for.

Anyhoo, an update.......

We had a family meeting (my mother, myself, my sister, my grandfather, his wife, his sister, and his niece) with the social worker, head nurse, and his nurse. Basically we were informed that he does not have dementia or any signs of dementia. Their biggest concern is he is a fall risk. He has fallen once since his knee surgery and that basically places him at an elevated level of risk. His wife gave concerns to his nurse about not being able to transfer him if he does fall again and thats when the whole long term facility placement came about. He does not need assistance with any of his ADL's. He dresses, showers, and feeds himself. They stated that they administer the medication in that facility so he does not take them himself. It seems the main issue is his wife being capable of his care which is monitoring his walking and limiting his activity. She feels that her own medical issues prevent her from doing such. It was suggested that his POA is changed since she feels she in incapable of making his medial decisions as her own health declines. She states she is about to lose her driving rights. A different POA has already been decided and we are going to start the process of recruiting someone to come by the house daily to assist with anything he may need help with. As soon as a home health aide is assigned he will be coming home. I thank all of your for your advice. Hopefully this will help others. When you feel as though someone shouldnt be in a long term care facility SPEAK UP. No matter how many people may tell you to just listen to the POA or "he must be there for a reason" JUST SPEAK UP. Ask for meetings. Ask for outside help. I reached out to the local Council of Aging and got great assistance from them. Now my grandfather knows he is not going to be staying in there forever and it gives him a piece of mind knowing we are doing what it takes to get him into his house with his dog so he cant enjoy his home. Thanks all again. God Bless!

sometimes elderly people can't cope with their partners illness and do the only thing they know how to do. Your Grandfather if he is cognizant and able to handle his own matters, will need to fix it himself or accept the situation he is in --- if he wants to follow his wife's wishes. She probably doesn't feel comfortable taking care of him and is doing her best to accomodate for his needs.

Contact your local Ombudsman, with your area office on aging and report the issue. If his wife doesn't have a POA except for Medical, you can have your grandfather initiate a new POA for all matters including medical, and/or get a guardian assigned to him (which he would have to pay for) I would start with your local area office on aging and their Ombudsman (sp) program. They should have resources that help people return home from a facility.

So much of this is hard to understand when the solution seems so simple. If grandpa is competent he can change his POA, then that takes any control grandma has away. If he is competent he can leave at any time. He only needs a plan of where he is going to oive and who will help him with what is needed. The doctor evaluation is going to be helpful as well. It also seems unusual that your mom would move across the country with all of this going on.

kkhall143,

It's so hard. I understand the emotional part of seeing a parent/grandparent placed. It's never easy. Maybe your grandfather isn't ready for it, but maybe he is?

That is the conundrum that pretty much tortures anyone in the situation you find yourself. The guilt is horrible. My mom has been in an AL for 4 years now. It never gets 'easy', just different.

I hope you find the answers and peace you need. Just my two cents.

The grandfather's doctor needs to do an evaluation of his physical and emotional well being. That determines his placement.

Let us know how it goes. We learn from each other.

I only know what has been told to me one one nurse and what his wife has told me. Ill know more information after the meeting.

Does he take his medications independently? Does he set up pill boxes on his own and remember which ones to take when (the ot will have /should have evaluated ) that skill.

You don't know what meds he's taking? Do you know what his diagnoses are? I hope all goes well. That's important information to have.

As far as the POA they are trying to get that switched to a friend of the family who is a physician since his wife does not appear to be suitable. That was another suggestion from the council on aging.

I have already met with the county's council on aging to locate an at home agency. The family meeting is on Monday with everyone there since all of our information has been second hand. We were never informed that he was moving to the long term unit. The agency was concerned about state regulations that were violated during a visit since the bed was not locked. Despite the facility being nice they seemed to have made a big deal about that. Other than the at home contacts and bedgate 2015 I have not heard much else from them. Hopefully Monday we will have the bigger picture and get him home sooner than later. As far as meals are concerned he cooks himself. Other ADLs he completes himself aswell showers, toileting, and shaving. Im not sure how or what medications he takes but I do know he has to be taking something from after his surgery.

Well, you should get in touch with the Area Agency on Aging in the jurisdiction where Grandpa lives. They will be able to tell you about local resources. Also about home health care agencies that are local.

You should probably arrange for his doctor to script a visiting nurse and ot and pt to come to his home short term until he's settled. Also investigate a good geriatrics doctor who can act as his primary physician. Figure out how he'll be gotten there, who will accompany him.

Does grandpa have other specialists he needs to see periodically, eye doctor, audiology, dentist, cardiology? Make sure you get those appointments set up.

Decide if you'll have the aides take him to these appointments , or if a family member will accompany him, or call in to the office while grandpa is there.

Will in home help cook and serve meals, or will meals on wheels be called? Or will you engage a grocery to deliver once a week?

I'm going to assume that grandpa has signed HIPAA release, medical poa and financial poa to someone other that his wife, and is in agreement with returning to his home with help brought in. Make sure he's on board with this decision.

Also, a housekeeping service, or cleaning lady to change the sheets, clean the bathrooms and kitchen once a week is probably a good idea.

Understood, but Im not looking for validation. I was trying to find resources, advice, suggestions of what could be done. Not someone wagging their finger at me as if I had done something wrong. The bottom line is nobody knows anyone on here personally so I assumed everyones opionions would be objective. I just wanted information thats it. Again I thank everyone for their time. God bless.

K, when you come to an online forum, you get a variety of opinions; foljs who agree with you, and some who challenge your thinking. If all you want is validation of your decision, well, this site isn't like that.

I hope that you and your family can make a good plan for your grandfather. Please let us know how this works out. We get questions like this quite a bit, from family members who want to remove an elder from a care center. So your continuing feedback on his progress will be a help to others.

I dont understand how I became the bad guy. I never said anyone in the nursing home would mistreat him ferris1. Its simple. He's worked his whole life to live a comfortable lifestyle. He has a beautiful home and a large family that loves him and is willing to care for him. I stated he would be imprisoned because he does not want to be there. He cannot go outside when he pleases hes confined to a facility. The place is NICE. The staff is even better, he still does not need to be there. Think of it as being in highschool and not being able to change classes bc your stuck in a room fingerpainting next to the kid who cant communicate in full sentences KNOWING you shouldnt be in there. As far as me being angry or stressed that is neither the case. Im 26 I have a wonderful career and I am abundantly blessed. I came on here seeking resources and information to help my grandfather who is reaching out for an advocate to hear his voice. Since majority of the feedback Im getting is negative the only thing stressing me out is this forum! Like I previously stated Im just trying to help my grandfather out. Idc about his wife or their relationship but want him to be happy and have a great quality of life. We are having a family meeting Monday with EVERYONE. Since we are getting all information it would be crucial for us to have this meeting. As far as this forum goes, Im done. I came on here seeking help and advice. Im not sure why the tone turned into malicious chatter but I will not be here to entertain it. Thank you to all who took time to speak with me previously. I a blessed night.

It may be prudent to ask for an OT eval and a PT eval so you have more information of what he'll need to have for his home care. My mom 's doc requested both and we found that she actually needed much more assistance with ADL's than we knew. Meeting with the care team will give you a fuller picture of his total health situation. It will help you weigh what he needs with what help the family is able to provide, whether his wife will be able to handle and what outside help with be needed. It's a tough time for families and difficult but essential to pull back from the emotions and look at all the info logically. He's lucky to have such caring family.

He had to be evaluated to be in longterm care. POA does not override what the patient wants if he is of sound mind. I think you need more info.

Kkhall, he looks good, and maybe that is an indicator he has good care that he did not have at home. I know you are angry with his wife, but is she taking care of herself and the house ok? It does sound very much like he could manage in an assisted living facility rather than skilled nursing, unless there are a lot of medications he would have to take completely on his own. Home health aides can be an answer, but the expense can be high and they can't necessarily be there for every time he needs help getting up or falls. Having enough cognition to converse and stay on top of some current things is a blessing but it might not be enough to truly live independently.

Have you had any chance to go to his home and see how things really are there currently?

Since you are so stressed, leave the decisions to your grandmother as when one has a POA, one has all the power. If she states she cannot care for your grandfather at home, then she can't. They are married to each other, and you are a granddaughter who has little say in their matters. Just wish them well and visit your grandfather when you can. He will not be "imprisoned" and as a former nurse I resent your implications that healthcare staff will mistreat him.

Absolutely, when I get updates I'll be sure to post. God bless!

kkhall, if and when your grandfather does go back to his current home, please keep us up to date with his progress. We are all curious how he is doing.

Just to update everyone. I went to see my grandfather and he looks amazing. He had color and gained weight since his knee surgery. He takes himself to and from the bathroom himself. When i spoke to his wife she said everytime she picks up his clothes they are wet. I was not able to speak to a doctor or nurse but his aides told me he is not incontinent and they do not assist him with toileting or showering. One of the male techs will walk with him down to the spa and he showers himself. I asked for a family meeting where we all can speak with his primary nurse and see where he is at. I believe a lot of things being told to us are u true so this will help us see exactly what hos nurses and doctors are saying. He is very sure he wants to come home. He said all i do is slp n watch tv here i can do that at home. They dont have him going to therapy anymore, im not sure why but we will find out once we have the meeting. When his wife called me she didnt say anything about dementia and he still seemed to be in his right mind. Im not sure if that was something that was just to my mother but again ill find out at the meeting. Thank you all again for your input. God bless.