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I have been appointed Medical POA for my parent. A sibling has the Financial POA, and won't share the details about how much money is there, to be able to determine if the parent can afford a fancy Assisted Living Center.
How can I help my parent with this decision if I can't know what the finances are? Last year's figures I have, but I need to know current info.

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GraceH: Okay sorry for the mix up. It is difficult to give you the information you want if you are not giving the full story up front.

I am the middle child and became Medical and Financial POA. It is true parents think the oldest child should automatically take control but that is not always the best choice.

Perhaps you need to ask your brother if he is planning on footing the bill for Mom and Dad when the money runs out. I hate to say it but you have a problem here in that it does not sound like he is going to "play ball" with you. He is going to continue to live his easy going life and allow you to run yourself into the ground taking care of everything. You need to stop and take a real good look at this, you signed up to be their Medical POA, that is something very different than being their care giver. You will drive yourself crazy running back and forth to care for your parents. Perhaps they do need an assisted living facility that would allow you to visit and be there for them but relieve you from all the running around. If nothing else, YOU go to the attorney and tell him that you and brother need a sit down in front of him, perhaps with your parents. You honestly cannot function like this and do the job you are trying to do.
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Dogabone, I am the medical POA, but my sibling is the financial POA. The sibling is ONLY the financial POA because they are the Oldest. That's it.
I have extensive experience in the financial field and work in a hospital (accounting department). There is no reason why I shouldn't be financial POA, except that it's "traditional" for the oldest to be POA and Executor (insert lots of laughter HERE).
I am the one who is seeking to preserve my parent's assets.
I am the one who is running around (physically) and spending lots of time (making doctor &other apointments) re-arranging my own life to accommodate my parent's needs...
The financial POA person is often away on a vacation, takes cruises, they are retired and living the good life....I have personally witnessed my parent making a phone call to their home, and the answer they get is totally shocking, the POA person says they are eating dinner and they can't talk right now.
Well I am the one who gets up in the middle of the night and takes parents to the emergency room, or if they have fallen and can't get up, drops everything and drives over ther. If there is heavy rainfall I go over and check their sump pumps when the electric is out. If their scooter is not working right I am the one who gets fixed under warranty (and arrange for a replacement). I am the one who goes online for them and orders their Depends (and shreds their CC number). I am the one who is there in the doctor office waiting....waiting....waiting.....
In the meantime, the POA person gets to sleep in late, live their own life, pursue their dreams....all of that is good stuff.
But if the POA lived next door to me, would they take turns with me and do all that I do? I dont' think so.
I am all about taking GOOD care, GREAT care, of our parent. It's apparent to me that nobody else is willing to do that.
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Personally, if my parents' doctor recommended a nursing home, I would ask the POA to disclose the financials to the prospective nursing home. If they refuse, you petition the court for removal of a non-functioning POA.
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GraceH, it sounds to me like YOU should be the financial person too, you can do the math and you have your head on straight.
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Last,
If your taking your Parents to the bank to get them spending money.Why wasn't you POA over Financials?Is the Financial POA also,taking Parents to the bank to get money?If so,who's keeping track of all spending anyone?Sounds like there's two POAs dealing with Parents Financials.If it keeps going like this both the POAs will spend their Parents funds in no time.While the Parents are blind not seeing where their funds are going.I have a Aunt that's 88 yrs old that I'm POA for.I go to the bank for her every month to get her $300 for spending money.She has denemtia and losing cash all the time or hiding it and forgetting where she put it.
Regardless,it's my job as POA to keep records of all funds spent.Why keep track of spending?Because,if or when she runs out of money and needs Medicaid or requires a nurcing home.Medicaid will be asking me the POA where did all the money go?If money or assets are messing or not accounted for.Medicaid will require me the POA to reinburse.Many people transfer's homes and other things to siblings.Some for a dollar.They have no idea that Medicaid can reverse those transactions if a nurcing home comes into play and requires Medicaid.
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I see.I apologize to you GraceH.At first it sounded like you was the spending type seeking fancy Assisted Living Center. The word fancy goes along way lol.
If your sibling as you are explaining is spending,spending and spending. Maybe it's time for you to research your sibling's spending before it's all gone? It may be possible that your sibling spent your Parents cash flow already is why the sibling refuses to tell you how much they got to spend. I'm sure someone is hiding, moving funds. If not already done already. $150,000 and selling a home isn't much money when it comes to healthcare cost.10 yr tops if they are lucky. I have no idea whats going on. You know what's going on and what you need to do. Either step back and watch your Parents money sink or do something about it. Regardless he or she is the POA over Financials not you. You say you don't desire to be Joint.Well, I see no reason why you need to know how much they got if you don't desire to seek. Either you desire to know or you don't. I explained the tools to do so. Risky if your pointing in the wrong direction.
Best,
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It is not the responsibility of the financial POA to make sure the money lasts a lifetime. They are responsible to spend money as needed for mom's care and needs. The lifetime could be two days, two months, or many years. You just cannot budget money over a lifetime!

Mom probably did it that way to try to get the two of you to work together which in many cases is a mistake. bin my situation mom gave both financial and medical to sis. That also, at least in this family was a mistake. Mom did this to avoid arguments, and it blew up big time!

What I would suggest is that you hire a geriatric care manager, a social worker to help you and sis work on this together. I even tried to do this in my family, but sis with POAs wouldn't agree to that either. This has been a nightmare and ended up in court with mediation and sis finally agreeing to intervention by third parties. Took a lot of money to get there too which would have been much wiser to be reasonable from the beginning. With voluntary intervention by a care manager there would have been more money for mom's care. Just makes me sick!
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GraceH ,if you want to know how much your Parents have to spend?That is what your asking in the main topic."How to find out?"(How can I help my parent with this decision if I can't know what the finances are? Last year's figures I have, but I need to know current info.)
(1) Ask your sibling?
(2)Ask your Parents?
(3)Become Joint.
(4)Take your Parents to the bank and have them ask for a simple printout.
(5)Have your Parents fire your Sibling as their POA and hire you.
There's your answers and options.
Medicaid goes back 5 yrs.Medicaid will seek any past over spending and gifts.If Medicaid would ever get involved.If your Parents would ever exceed their assets and require Medicaid.That's when Medicaid will go after seeking what happened to you Parents assets.If funds are uncalled for as large amounts to gifts.Medicaid will reverse those transactions for their further healthcare cost.
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I agree with HolyCow ,
Sounds like these siblings aren't seeing eye to eye on things.This POA is seeking fancy Assisted Living Centers while the other POA isn't talking about money.Must be the reason why the POA was appointed over Financials.Next thing we will hear is about Wills & Trusts lol.Greed comes into play in many family relationships.
Go locate fancy Assisted Living Centers and give the list to your sibling and see what he or she says about your list.You both must come to a agreement together.Pointing fingers isn't gonna get ya no where.Why isn't your sibling willing to tell you how much your Parents have?Humm.
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dogabone, yes, I do take my parent to their bank (*at their request*) almost every week so they can withdraw some cash, which they like to do for shopping and tipping the in-home caregiver or delivery man. I am not on their account and sort of don't want to be, unless my parent wants that.
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thank you Holy Cow for your thoughts, here's more info: I am against my parent ever moving to AL or NH, want them to stay at home and bring in help as-needed. Last year they only had about $150K in their investment acct, that won't get much time at a fancy place.
The POA is "so busy" they cannot even answer my emails, and thinks I am below them, since they are high up in their corporation while I am just a peon. However I did prevent a move last year, after pointing out only $150k is left...that's only 3 years at a fancy place. Sale of home won't net much either, maybe another year. I figure we should plan at least 10 or maybe 15 years of life left to live, and we should be conservative, cut costs now so there is something left for a medical emergency or increased needs (which yes might include AL or NH).
I think you may have misunderstood my situation -- I have been the one NOT wanting to spend their money. The POA is the one who is wanting to spend spend spend....
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Sorry I don't mean to over fill your thread.If I may cont-,
My guess is if your sibling is POA over Financials he already is Joint on their bank accounts.If that's the case there really isn't a thing you can do other then proving your sibling isn't doing his or her job as POA.Like I said before,it is your Parents bank accounts.You could just simply take your Parents to their bank and have your Parents get a printout and past bank statments for some reason.
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Well it does not sound like your are getting along with your sibling otherwise you would be working together. Why does Mom need to go into fancy assisted living center? Perhaps Financial POA does not wish to share this info with you as they feel you are "blowing away the money unnecessarily." You have to realize that you can find a Beverly Hills Assisted Living Center but as Financial POA they do not HAVE TO LET YOU HAVE THE MONEY! Their obligation is to try and make Mom's money last for the rest of her life, not blow it all in two years because living in an upscale center, sounds wonderful.

You may need to lower your expectations and have a level headed conversation with your sibling. I will be honest if I was in this situation with my sister, I would refuse to pay for a fancy Assisted Living Center. I thought my mother might live for 3 years after my father passed. It has been 8 years and I can see it lasting at least another 5 however she says she will live to 100......I will not last that long but she may.

I realize you need or want this information from your sibling but you may need to re-prioritize what your mothers NEEDS are.

Can I just ask what are your plans on taking care of Mom, if you blow all of her money in say, two years and she is still alive? Are you going to come up with the money out of your pocket to pay all of her expenses until she passes?

I don't think you will see Medicaid stepping in to help, as you wasted her money and they do a 5 year look back to see where every dime was spent.... now how will you care for her?

You may love her and want the best for her, but you may have to live in reality.
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Your Parents can appoint anyone they desire to be their POA.Your Parents can also,fire their POA if they so desire.Since your not POA over Financial.Have your Parents place you on their Bank Account as Joint.It is your Parents bank account not your sibling's.Normally two is appointed POA over Healthcare not just one sibling.And by rights there should only be one POA over Financial.You don't need your sibling's permision to become Joint on your Parent's bank account.All you need is your parents say so.I'm sure if your sibling is POA for Financial .That same sibling is also,POA over Healthcare not just you.Sounds like your POA maybe Springing in case something would happen to your sibling.The Financial POA by rights should be the person to be seeking fancy Assisted Living Centers because,that POA knows the Financials.If your Parents are compatent they can fire their POAs if the POAs aren't doing thier jobs.But,if the Parent or Parents are incompatent no attorney will change a thing.The simplest thing for you to do is to become joint on their accounts.Problem solved.Being joint you can seek past bank statements to find if there is past spending errors or gifts.Regardless,if you become Joint.Your sibling POA will find out about it.That may open a bad can of beans.I think the best thing for you to do is to,see eye to eye with your sibling.You POAs must work together as not fighting over your Parents retirement/assets.
If you feel your sibling "POA" is Financialy abusing your parents?You can report your sibling to APS.You must ask your self tho,is it worth it?If your sibling is by fact abusing Financials?I don't see why you shouldn't go further reporting.But,if your wrong.You may regret it.Talk to your sibling about Assisted Living Centers before attempting a attorney.If you both can't get along with one another you both don't need to be POAs.
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