Follow
Share

I live in Virginia. My Mother could no longer live alone so my sister and her husband moved my Mother into their home. My Sister put my Mother's home on the market for 20,000 less than the assets value. It stayed on the market for six months with no interest until my sister's son decided to keep the property in the family and bought the home for 20,000 less than asset's value. My sister put the difference in a bank account in her and my mother's name about 150.000.The only income deposited in the bank account was my mother's social security and a small pension. Over the next 2 years my sister and her husband spent the money from the joint account for their needs. Very little of the money was spend on my mother. When does the 5 year look back period begin? Does it begin with the original sell of the home when the bank account was established, or does it begin with the last bank transaction was made by my sister and brother in law two years later?

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
The look back starts on month of the date of the Medicaid for NH application and 5 full years back from that date.

About the sale on the house. Any sale or transfer of real property (land, homes, auto's) are all recorded by the local assessor and dovetailed into the state database. So the amount will be recorded and noted somewhere…..and will eventually surface.

For Medicaid, if there is a property sale or transfer of large amounts of $ and the funds from it cannot be shown to be have spend on their needs or their care, then the state can impose a transfer penalty. Now the transfer penalty is pretty whack to figure out and I am very OCD on all this. The benchmark on penalty is whatever your state pays the NH for it's room & board daily reimbursement. Some states are low (like Texas is about $ 145.00 a day pitiful low) and other states high ($ 300 - 400 a day). Then you add to that the value of the property or the amount of $ that was improperly spent. Now this is where it gets sticky in that some states the penalty is set at the date of the property transfer or in other states at the time of the application. Could make a huge butt difference in $$.

For example, say mom gifted the property w/tax assessor set value of $ 100K to Sissy in Texas 2 years ago. So mom's Medicaid payment to the NH would face a transfer penalty of 689 days in which mom would have to be expect to private pay for the NH as it is a date of application time start. Transfer penalties are such that although they are fully accepted into the Medicaid program, they are ineligible for any payment from Medicaid for their expenses until the penalty # of days are done.

Transfer penalties are pretty sticky to deal with & personally I would get an elder law attorney to deal with it all, if this is in your future. Most of the time, the penalty comes about during the period of time when mom is already in the NH and "Medicaid pending" on her living @ the facility. Then 5 months into her stay, she gets a transfer penalty inquiry letter and also the NH gets the letter from the state. Family is totally in panic as the NH fully expects to be paid and like now for the thousands of dollars that mom owes the facility. If you signed off to be mom's financially responsible individual then you will have to come up with the funds or sign off on a contract to pay or mom will get a 30 day notice to move. This can get ugly too. ALthough the NH can't kick momma to the curb, if you do nothing, the state can do an emergency placement / ward of the state action which has all sorts of legal complications for you and family that will cost time & money. At my mom;s NH # 1, one of the ladies son's (a real azzhole imho) would not deal with her bill due to the transfer penalty of her old home to him which he sold, so she was moved to another NH in another county which was desperate for filled beds even if at the ward of the state paid rate. Just ugly and total panic for all and especially for grannie or mom, who are old & with dementia & don't understand why.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

When your mother applies for Medicaid they will want to know everything about her finances for the PRIOR 5 years. They will ask that documentation be shown for everything. If the house was sold for $20,000 under value, Medicaid MAY consider that a gift as it was a relative that got the benefit of the home, they will also want to know what your sister did with YOUR MOM"S $150,000. They do not care if two names were on the account, they look at it as though you Mom OWNED EVERY CENT OF THAT MONEY. If your sister spent the money Medicaid will not pay for your mother's care. If they were planning on putting her into a nursing home that costs $7,000 a month they will have to pay the monthly bill themselves for over 21 months, before Medicaid will pay one cent!

I have to say your sister and her husband should not only be ashamed of themselves but probably prosecuted for essentially robbing your mother. This is disgusting behavior.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

Dogabone, the 5-year lookback starts in the month you APPLY for medicaid. It is not affected at all by POA.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

I would think the 5 year look back period begins when you activate your Durable POA with her bank.As POA your job is to account/record all assets spent.
Unless your not her POA.Sounds to me your Mother needs a new POA or a POA.Those people that is joint on her accounts should of been removed by her POA for this not of happened.Are you your Mother's POA?Who all is your Mother's POAs?Does she have more then one POA?Is there a POA?If there is a POA or more then one POA?Someones POA should of been revoked.If you was your Mother's POA and seating back watching others spend her funds?Your POA should be revoke for not stopping their spending.If your not her POA no worries for you.If you are?Medicaid will come after you for money missing.O-Yes 5 yrs back.Or all the POAs involved for that matter.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

A house is worth only what someone is willing and able to pay for it. Even if taxes are assessed at a higher value, if no one will pay that amount, it isn't worth that amount at that time, in that place, in that condition. Even if an appraiser says, for instance, that the replacement value is higher, if no one is willing to pay that amount, it isn't worth that amount. If the appraisal was done before the real estate crash in 2008, the appraisal was probably no longer valid. If your mother's house was on the market, in the hands of a realtor, for six months and didn't sell, it means the asking price was too high for the conditions of the market. From what you say, I gather that the house went on the market sometime in 2009 or 2010 --- just when real estate values were in a terrible slump. The grandson may have done your mother a favor by paying as much as he did; at least she was no longer liable for taxes and maintenance. What happened to the money after the sale is a separate question; if something dishonest was done, someone should be held accountable, and that's what you should focus on.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

The lookback period begins when Mom applies for Medicaid, I think. So if they can keep her at home for three more years, they are OK. They are scum, but may get away with it.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Look back is five years, period. Joint accounts are considered 100% mom's for the lookback. So Medicaid will be asking where the $150,000 went. They are very rigid about it, if mom gave money to charity or church, it's a penalty. If she gifted money to anyone, it's a penalty. If it came out in cash and there are no receipts, it's a penalty. So now you can sit back and enjoy a good laugh while Medicaid holds their feet to the fire.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.