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Hi all - I guess all I am looking for here is your opinion, and to help me see something I may be missing?


We have had FIL with us for 2 long years now (I know not as long as some of the troopers on this site), but long enough for me anyway... Hubby and myself do not get away often, but have decided we absolutely have to have a vacay, away, by ourselves. FIL is not mean like some I have read about, but is a narcissist, has PD and is a stroke patient. The last time we went out of town for a couple of days to visit MIL out of town (they are divorced), we vetted a wonderful AL care facility in our town. When I say vetted, I mean vetted... I went over there 4 different times, and even took him to visit and meet others prior to his stay. They matched him up with other residents who had similar interests, etc.


Afterwards, he tells hubby in private that next time he prefers to just stay home. Well, next time came, and I made hubby do all of the advanced meal prep. etc., that it took to try to be away for 2-3 days. I do the meds....


NOW, due to increased risk of falls, etc., and the length of time, he absolutely cannot stay home. We cannot prepare enough meals in advance for him, and it simply does not make sense.


So hubs was pushing and pushing me to find a place to vacay, book it, and make the plan. Well I have, and it is 23 days away. I told hubs over a week ago that he needed to talk with his Dad about respite care at AL, or at least the alternative would be qualified, vetted "at home care", via a couple hours a day, or meals, etc.


Well here I am... waiting... I asked hubs yesterday if he had talk to FIL, he said yes, Dad would "think" about it, and let hubs know what he wanted to do... WHAT THE H_____. I had begged him not to give him a choice in the 1st place, but he just can't bring himself to make his Dad do anything he does not want to do. SO here we are..... I asked yesterday if FIL had said anything one way or the other.... nope nothing.


I had pre-arranged for a home health professional to come to the house to meet with him, make an assessment, etc., just in case that's what he decided. That was this morning. I cancelled the appt., I don't think it is fair to waste her time coming here, when he won't even make a decision.


I am going to pledge to myself, that I am NOT going to ask about this again... I am sure hubs will not want to miss a vacation, but he needs to realize that care decisions cannot be made at the last minute, and people are not just waiting in the wings to be called. I cannot believe he is just sitting here waiting for the King to make a decision. I am at the point that I almost wish it to be too late for find care/facility openings when and if he "does" decide, and I can enjoy a vacay right by myself.


Is it just me????!!!!

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Hi and good evening all of my caregiver friends, and best supporters! I hope this post will be able to be seen by everyone. If you “see” it on your end, please let me know.
At the end of the vacation journey, here is how it went.
. ALF respite care- no go
. In home intermittent wellness, meal prep- no go. I had an agency lined up and they failed to get back to me....
. After all of this angst, were right back to hubs 1st inclination (advance meal prep & having our son check in)... again, not my choice, but basically said to hell with it, do what you want.
. I have to say that after all of this, our vacation really was most refreshing, and we were able to really talk, be ourselves, eat, drink, sleep when WE wanted. We realized that we had not been alone on vacation, real vacation, since our honeymoon, other than 3 days last winter. Did anything magically change with our situation.... nope, and did not expect it. But, I do think it helped re-set us as a couple, and hopefully we both recognize the vital necessity of time alone together, even if it means US having to leave while we are not alone in our house. A heartfelt thank you to all of my lifesavers out there... truly, if I had not been able to receive your feedback, I don’t think I would have made it!
i will be checking on your guys as well, and plan to be a on active part of this group well into the future, love to all🌸
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kdcm1011 Oct 2018
Yay for you! Glad you got away & with hubby. It will be interesting to see what changes now — you, your husband, your FIL, even your son. Sometimes letting the chips fall where they may jump starts changes. Pls keep us posted.

And start planning your your next vacation. Plan during your weekly night out.
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Sidelined...I hope you’re now on your well deserved vacation! Let us know how it’s going.
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Harpcat Oct 2018
Yes...whatever happened? Please tell us after all we’ve invested giving support. Thanks!
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No, you are really trying to get this to work out, but others are dragging.  Is it clear to them, and to you, that you ARE GOING on vacation and if they want help planning, then now is the time? Otherwise, you are going on vacation and they will have to do whatever in their absence. Your vacation IS GOING to happen, with their input or not.
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sidelined Oct 2018
Thank you so much. I just posted my update. I truly appreciate your caring and response !
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Hi sidelined. We went through a similar lifestyle you possess now. For more than 2 years, we felt like prisoners, at the same time, wanting to do the right thing for his mom. Similar in that we could not step away alone and we have a 10 year old. Narcissism takes a toll on the children of narcissists. They are either the victim or the spawn made to be exactly like them. People don't understand very much of what a victim of a narcissist goes through let alone having a parent with Alzheimer's too. It's mind boggling why I stayed to care for my MIL but yes it was trying- challenging to say the least. COUNSELING HELPS! Our family counselor sat with all 3 of us discussing all of our feelings and experiences, validating our emotions and helped us to steer in a better direction so it wouldn't take AS MUCH a toll on us. We were always drained emotionally and physically in caring for mom, sleep deprived and very little peace of mind. You're doing everything you can. Don't be discouraged. Siblings didn't help in our case either. Just us two. I can see you love your husband and fed up too. That's normal. Please seek counseling so you can all see it for what it is. We yearned to be alone but could not because of my MIL. Our only solitude was in our backyard where we can keep an eye on her but be apart or the garage where we installed a tv but had a baby monitor to listen for her. Sad, I know. I love my husband. We've been through thick and thin. We've been there too where we've wanted out and be done with this life via care home and move far, far away. Our frustrations were at DEFCON 1 but we stuck it out. I can understand why you wouldn't want to continue this lifestyle. Multiple things needed to happen to decompress each night. Our team of doctors exceeded our expectations. I've learned to detach myself emotionally to be able to do what I did. She recently passed 2 weeks ago and I guess the worst is over. Reclaiming our lives back is taking some time but we have eachother in the end. All of mom's doctors said we should write a book of what we went through to help others. It's a thought. For now, I try to share here. Don't give up hope. The sun will shine on your face again (figuratively speaking). We can look back with no regrets and move forward. I wish you well. You have support here, definitely.
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sidelined Oct 2018
Hi InnerFloweChild. I am just getting settled back in, and read your post!
Wow and wow, sounds like you had your hands full, and how I commend you for sticking together with your husband to keep going. Am sorry to hear of MILs passing by the way. Is it not amazing how many people say the same thing about parents who are narcisstic!!! I truly do not believe that this trait just magically appears with old age and mental illness, but probably an intensified version of their entire life.
By the way, your description of Defcone 1, made me laugh! This is how I would describe most of my feelings ....🤬👀lol.
but seriously, I am glad you sought counseling and received good care from the doctors. Thank God my FIL is not delusional yet, but I can see the clear benefits of help.
you hit on a point that I have often wondered about, and did bring up to hubs while on vacay. That is “re-entry” back to your couple life, if you are so lucky t o still have each other, and your own health. If you write your book, please include a chapter on what I call “the aftermath”.... what a tragedy it would be to find you have an irreputably broken relationship at the finish line..... much like how some parents loose tough with being a couple while raising their children.
God Bless you and enjoy your reclaimed life!
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In my case, it was MY mother and my husband. I did not believe in divorce. To make a long story short, my subconscious mind finally got through to my conscious mind that I wanted to leave. That was on a Thursday morning. My counselors appointment was on Thursday night. I rented an apartment on Monday and was gone on Wednesday (I had to wait until payday). I left MY mother and my husband. ( I used to laugh and say my mother and my ex-husband live together).

The first morning I woke up in my apartment, I had no bed, I was sleeping on a air mattress, only a dresser left over from the kids, no fridge, I purchased a polystyrene ice chest. I had a TV and wooden rocker left over from my kids. No table and chairs, no couch, no washing machine. The sun was shining in the window and I felt like someone had let me out of jail. This was after 26 years of marriage. He helped me move. He told me not to take much because he didn't want to haul it all back. HAH! I never looked back. After about 13 years my current husband talk me into marrying him. I wasn't going to do it again. I did and we had a great 17 years before he has come down with Alzheimer's.
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sidelined Oct 2018
Hi, just getting back, and wanted to respond to your post, and thank you for taking the time! Wow, what a story... and told in such a wonderful way!
So glad you took the chance and took off. Sounds like you have taken charge of your life, and claimed your happiness. God Bless and good for you!
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SL, do you think that if you remind your husband that he agreed to 2 options that would wake him up?

I agree that when you have no respect for someone it is harder to deal with them, it really colors everything. But I'm thinking that you are struggling with his disrespect towards you and your husband, is the fly in your soup, then add your husband's behaviour that feels very disrespectful, yuck maggot stew!

I hate not knowing the plan and how things are going to be dealt with, crisis management is not something I deal with very well. I find that it is a lack of organization and planning that creates it. Stuff happens and we have to go with the flow but to not take responsibility to begin with is tough. I wouldn't be able to not confront my husband about this, I'm so impressed that you can.

You are so right, I would have probably seriously hurt someone if I was dealing with a brutal menopause and a narsasist dad that ended up almost dead on my hands because of his cradle robbing. 1st person would have been his wife that let things get in such a state for lack of an ER visit. I took one look and thought I had a corpse on my hands and Praise The Lord we showed up when we did or he would have died, per the doctors.

I hope that you get your hearts desire, a vacay to see your daughter(will she have the baby then?) I hope that you and your husband can have a good heart to heart and that you don't loose your marriage because of his dad. That would just suck. You have said that your husband is a good man, until it comes to his dad. Remember that when you are considering your future. If you go FIL wins and maybe that's his passive aggressive plan.

Well kindred spirit have a good night and let's hope hubs wakes up soon. Like right now would be good😆
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sidelined Oct 2018
Hi there, is this real! Thank you so much for your funny and colorful feedback, made me smile!!!
sounds like you completely understand the feelings, and have been there too.
after ALL of the insane struggle to get away, I ended up just saying to hell with it, and let them do what they wanted to do. Hubs had to figure it out, I was only worried about packing👍🏻
I do have to confess that while I know vacations do not fix things at home, it did a great deal to help me and hubs reconnect and talk freely and honestly.
I hope this breath of fresh air will help us carry on.
FIL will not win this one, you bet ya! Many thanks for your caring and best wishes to you! 😃
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Sidelined, if your FIL is 100% mentally all there, why are you handling all of these things for him?

He is obviously manipulating you, he has no respect for women of strength and character. Common theme with womanizers.

I would let him deal with his own needs that only require mental acuity. He can pick up a fork, he can pick up a phone.

I would encourage you to tell him that his azzhole behavior towards you, complete lack of gratitude and entitlement attitude has caused you to put in your resignation. A thank you from the heart goes a looong way. Entitlement is a short trip.

My dad pulled that kind of crap, all the time. Thought I was put on this earth to be used and abused by him at his convenience. He never could look me in the eye or answer when I asked him about his inappropriate actions. So, I send him all of his paperwork, have drs call his cell, he can deal, deal fella.

I would tell my husband that as much as I love him, I am done being used by his unappreciative, manipulative, self-centered dad. If that is a problem, it is theirs, you have gone above and beyond what should ever be asked of a DIL in an unloving relationship. Your FIL is a complete user, history proves that.

You are not wrong in feeling put upon and unagreeable because this person has hijacked your life, if my husband made a crappy comment like that to me, I would have shown him chemical imbalance. I had a horrid menopause and my BIL made a really ugly comment and I told him and my husband that I have a 5 inch thick medical file recording all of my torment and I am pretty sure that I would be acquitted, so keep your gob hole closed, I must have looked like I meant it because he stopped with the degrading blabber and steared clear of me.

You are a hero, I personally would have thrown him out long ago. His poor choices should not be a life sentence for you or your husband. Send him to his precious step-daughter he thinks so much of her.

Hugs for all you have done for this male, I can't say man, at our home that does not mean gender, it is a man, responsibility, action, back bone etc.
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi there and WOW thank you!
You are very insightful and have a great way of delivering the message, I think we may be kindred souls....
i so much appreciate you taking the extra time to read and consider the situation.... glad for you too regarding the menopause reaction.... bravo to you!!! OMG I just thought what in the world would you do if you were dealing with these issues and going through menopause too!!!! Someone would not survive!!!!
i do feel more confident that I am not over reacting and just on the hunt for a reason to want to tear his head off.... how exactly are you to respect such a spineless individual? Then there’s hubs.... he is squirming and feeling the heat about this vacay situation.... he si
aid he would handle FILs care because I know he did not want me booking him at a facility and making him upset.... so he got it.... and by the way, asked FIL his choice, FIL said he would let him know, and still has not. I reminded hubs that time is closing, but have not offered anything else (which is hard for my personality)... nice though because this is his “baby”.
I know exactly what he is doing.... he will ride this to the last minute, then start trying to out together pre-prepared meals and talk our son into coming over here (for 9 days).... how stupid. Now that I think about it, I can’t believe he consented to 9 days to begin with!
So I brace for this and am planning to tell him that this is not a solution, and that I will go alone before he takes that path.... am I being unreasonable? We both agreed when talking about this vacay that the only 2 options would be respite care at AL, or hire a real service to come to the house. Of course hubs will try to make me look like I am being unreasonable if I do not go for this, it really..... how cowardly..... I don’t even want to go in a vacation alone with him after all of this. Oh well T - 16 days... stay tuned, and thank you again.
Best wishes on whatever you are dealing with!
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I took a trip alone for just a few days last fall when I thought my head would explode! It was so good to be alone with just me. When you said you don’t know if you want to continue in this marriage and that maybe you should see a counselor...my answer to that is definitely. You need a sounding board and objective person. It can’t hurt and will likely help. Please do it for your sake.
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sidelined Sep 2018
Good morning and thank you so much Harpcat! I bet you did enjoy your time alone, and I think without justification, we all need it! Unless I am in the tub, I am never alone... I work from home and dear ol FIL is just right outside my door...
thank you also for your feedback regarding counseling ... I am going to do just that. Stay tuned, and best wishes to you and whatever you have going on.
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Loss of privacy, no time alone, catering to a narsasist, being thrown under the bus by husband, handling FIL affairs, not being able to go on vacay, what part of this would make any of us unhappy, hhhmm?

I would blow his hair back and then take a tranquilizer 😊

If he wasn't a dutiful little boy with his daddy he would be able to understand how very imposing a grown man with special needs truly is.

Have you and hubs talked about how long this situation is supposed to last or does he assume status quo until someone drops dead? Was this the original agreement? Does he know that you are at the end of your rope with not having a life because he has placed more value on his dad than his own wife and marriage? I feel angry on your behalf, chemical imbalance, indeed!

Maybe, he doesn't want to be married anymore and he's not got enough backbone to speak up? That would, unfortunately, be what I thought.

Best luck sidelined, HUGS!
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sidelined Sep 2018
Good morning Isthisrealyreal!

OK, first your response gave me a good laugh, which I needed! Especially with the “blow his hair back part”! LOL. I could really envision doing just that.... I have fantasized about looking like a crazy person, walking into the family room (blocking the tv of course) and just go crazy on their asses....
it is so hard trying to analyze whether my thoughts/feelings are indeed an indication of something maybe unresolved with me, or are totally valid. I think your feedback regarding how you would feel if hubs suggested a chemical imbalance pretty much tells me that I am not the only one who finds offense in this.

Also, yes, we have talked about this many many many times.... planning, well now, let’s not go crazy....
when FIL lost his 3rd wife, we moved him back here, where he is from, in with us of course. His mind is almost 100%, but his physical limitations are the real issue. We are trying to get his real estate sold so that it can be invested and help bridge the huge gap that is going to be there when he has to go to a home. That is the plan, and hubs can keep looking for that, but I am slipping away.... hubs line in the sand (he says) will be when/if FIL loses bodily function control and cannot feed himself.... I truly do not wish continued health declines, I really don’t, but if that happens and he still has his mind, that will be interesting because hubs can’t even make himself press about our vacay plans!!!

Regarding divorce.... good question. I can honestly say that I don’t think that is an underlying issue, it certainly worth keeping an open eye on.

I am trying to start to do more things on my own, although hubs does not like it.... married to a pouter... but to be fair, he is a good man, and knows me like no other, this situation has just peeled back a layer that it is not so pretty. I have always known that his regard for King Richard was strong, but boy.....the first big fuss we had was about FIL and now here we are full circle.... ironic . Is it just me, or would others have trouble living in this situation when you have absolutely no respect for FIL? He is not mean, mouthy, demanding, etc., which may make it sound like what am I complaining about by those that have that situation.... however, that “marshmallow” floating on top of the water, with absolutely no backbone and nothing underneath is exactly what has caused the loss of all respect for him. It would be easier
if he were mean because his ass would be OUT. He has never once thanked me for handling his wife’s estate, taking care of his financial and all other matters, changing doctors, appt., etc. he will thank me when I give him tea, and thanks hubs every time hubs puts his meals on the table. However, his deceased wife’s two grown children are druggie losers, and fought us tooth and nail over moving him. Long story, but my last straw with FIL was when the daughter & her teen daughter called not long after he had been here, left me a nasty vulgar message. I played it back for FIL listen. So, he picks up his phone, calls her back, and wishes her a happy birthday and goo goo ga ga all over the place, just one example, but the one where I knew where I stood. Afterwards, he would not look me eye to eye, when I asked him if he asked her why she thought she had the right to do that, and did he agree that it was beyond disrespect? He would not respond or even look at me.... I also don’t think he likes that I am not an air headed push over. The King likes women, and would be continuing on with his skirt chasing ways if he were able. Makes me sick that he would not give nearly the regard for his own son, and our kids, if he could be at it again.... never a planner, just a chaser.
WOW, I really did not mean to unload all of this, but I do thank you for your response, and wishing you the best on whatever you are dealing with!
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Dearest Sidelined
Your answer to Stacey says it all. I still think you should walk out the door with love and regrets. Have you ever been on vacation alone? Its glorious ...as soon as the sun soaks into your skin and the smell of the salt air hits your senses you will be transformed to the woman you used to know. Put your energies into researching your destination...take a yoga class...see that new movie....eat @ that restaurant Hubs would never go to.....read that book....get in touch with friends that have dropped off your radar since you have become a Caregiver...shop till you drop...get your hair done....so much to do!

You will meet people that you would never even notice if Hubs is with you....maybe even some folks with words of wisdom or better yet take your mind completely off of your home situation.

Let the guys "go it alone." I have a feeling they will be transformed as well without you! One can hope that alot of the dilemmas you now face will be in Hubs face literally. I think you'll come home to a different man with a new attitude and hopefully a renewed respect for you. Tough love them!

Actions speak louder than words....walk the talk girl ...wish i could go with you!
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi Lucy, and thank you SO much! I cannot tell you how much I secretly crave going to the beach alone.... if I have wine, olives bread cheese, etc I am good. No one to control the remote and where and when we eat, not to mention not having to be intimate when you would rather have a root canal...
this situation has turned into a cluster of Biblical proportions and I do not even recognize my life...
i need soul searching time, I really don’t even know if I want to continue on in this marriage... funny how this trip was for our 30th anniversary and my birthday....
I struggle so much with “justifying”how I feel.... am I normal, others have it worse... and am I hating on my FIL more than necessary because of unresolved childhood hurts???????? On and on...... hubs has even told me that he thinks “I” have a chemical imbalance because no one should be this unhappy with such an innocent, non trouble making in law.... never mind all of the sh*t that comes along with this.....

Oh God, I just want to RUN far away..... maybe I need to see a counselor, I really really need to know if it is just me or would anyone feel this way?
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After all this will he or won’t he drama, can you even put it all behind you and enjoy the trip at this point? I hope so. No fun sitting at your long awaited vacation fuming over what it took to make it happen. This is all pointing to a much bigger issue, that of your resentment of what your home life has become, not blaming you for that, more hoping you can address it and find a plan to change it
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sidelined Sep 2018
Good morning Daughterof1930...

You pose a great question, and one I have pondered.... I fear that the first half of vacay would be getting over the “hangover” of the aftermath of getting there.... then a few good days, and then the return of dread when time to go home.

the tension is unbearable and I just don’t understand the avoiding apathetic behavior.... FIL just sitting here, not acknowledging that he has been asked about this, and hubs just drifting along, and giving me the cold shoulder I guess because I am not floating around on a cloud of smiles and giggles.
I think I need to see someone, I cannot get past this time resentment... it is eating me alive.
Thank you for taking the time to respond!
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It appears be the time for you to make a decision as to what you are going to say. DaisyRose had the best direct advice. I am saving it for me to read when my time comes.

BTW, during this vacation, I also suggest you think long & hard about being POA for FIL. This whole episode is just a small sampling of what you will face as FIL progresses in his disease. Will your husband support you or fight you with the hard decisions that have to be made?
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sidelined Sep 2018
Good morning, thank you for your response!
I just don’t know anymore....
good question about the POA situation. This was done initially because FIL needed someone to take care of his financial affairs, settle real estate, etc. they are both happy to give this to me, however the rub would come in if I exercised that to actually do something that made FIL unhappy.... Hubs will do just about anything to keep his dad from being unhappy.... even sacrifice ours it seems.......
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Ohhhh this subject really gets under my craw! We had my FIL living here with us for over 13 loooong years, until his death last September 2017, and that after 9 loooong weeks on Hospice (wonderful), wirh my hubby and myself doing all of the care, he died in our home, just as he wanted to.

My husband is much as yours, non-confrontational, but otherwise a really good guy. My FIL, a true Narcissist, who so thourally enjoyed the fact that he "thought" that he was in control, but thankfully when push comes to shove, hubby was always in my corner, but I did not push that often, too much bother.

I would not allow Any of this Pussy Footing Around, not one day longer. Sit the 2 of them down, turn Off the TV, and tell them that: This is Your Anniversary and Birthday trip, that hubby Is going with you, as he was the one who suggested it, and got you excited for it. That FIL has been graciously allowed to live in your home for the past 2 years, and that you do not wish to worry about him being alone and falling or becoming ill while you are away, therefore he Is being booked into AL during this time, and at his expense so that he is safely being cared for, End Of, get used to it!

You need to be the bad guy here, FIL will get over it!, and tell him that you and your husband Deserve this time away to reconnect with each other, and work on your marriage, because if this marriage fails, the Cushy life as he knows it, will be No More. This topic is No Longer Up For Debate.

Then walk out of the room, begging packing yours and your husband's suitcases, and do not bring it up again, until its time to help pack up your FIL's suitcase, and then if he needs a reminder, do it then, but Do Not Back Down.

Do not engage in but, but, but type conversations! You know you are right in this, as he needs to be looked after, and to be safe, and you need a good vacation away from him for a while! You are POA after all, So Do It!
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sidelined Sep 2018
Good morning Stacey, WOW thank you for your excellent insight and words of encouragement and advice!
Let me start by saying what a saint you must be..... I CANNOT imagine living with FIL until his dying days.... even in the best of circumstances, the toll it would take on your marriage has to have been tremendous. I literally cannot go anywhere in my house that I don’t have to walk right past him..... I just couldn’t do it.
This thing has gotten me so beat down that it is hard to even care enough.... This is something hubs said he would take care of, and has failed miserably.... I am always the “fixer”, and really just don’t care enough...

because of Hubs expectional need to not “press” his dad, he is just sitting..... I want HIM to feel the heat here. I agree that the mature, direct, non-negotiable approach is the best.... here is what I have to consider, if I take that route, I bet hubs will undermine me if FIL is not happy about whatever decision is made and will “drill a hole”right in my boat about it.
So then I have a pissy FIL (don’t care) about that, but he would then know that hubs can “trump”me, then what do I do with, what I know would be complete outrage towards hubs?
Such a good man other than when dealing with FIL... how I wish I had never moved him in here.
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Unless you want to take JoAnn’s and my advice and truly issue an ultimatum TONIGHT, then do nothing. Say no more. Pull out the suitcases and pack ONE. Your’s. Leave it out in the open. When and if Hubby poops or gets off the pot, tell him you’ll help him pack his if he decides to go with. You guys are playing a weird and a slightly disturbing game of duck, duck, goose. Get out of the circle. Time has come. No more games.
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sidelined Sep 2018
You are so right... and the game of “avoidance” is getting old...
problem.... I am well past the ultimatum phase because frankly I don’t care enough to try to knock sense into them...
truly, the only issue I have now is how to handle hubs half-baked lame ass efforts when it is time to go. I am telling you, he will come up with some stupid inadequate “plan”, and then accuse me of being unreasonable because I don’t want to go along with whatever stupid idea he has that does not solve the problem and just bandaids it enough for him to not have to confront his dad and actually make a grown up decision.

i just wish he would get out of the way and let me go by myself
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Today is the day. You sit them both down and look them in the eyes. You tell FIL you are making arrangements tomorrow for respite care because you and your husband are going on vacation for eight days. He was given a choice but now the clock is ticking. This is a once in a lifetime vacation and you are going. Then look at husband and say, agreed. If he huffs and puffs. Tell him you would love to go with him but u will go alone. I know, you want him to stand up to Dad but that may never happen. There's always one spouse who will take the bull by the horns and I guess thats you. I call my husband wishy washy. When he can't decide, I do it.
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi JoAnn, first I like the “wishy washy” description, fits....

Great advice ice and I am going to hope for th best. Honestly, I would rather go alone with all of this trouble we have gone through...
stay tuned
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Just go. Everything is in place. Everything is laid out. Pick and plan something for yourself. Now is the time. After all who can better care for your FIL needs at home than his son?
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sidelined Sep 2018
Well said! They are used to their little mundane, predictable life.... I would rather pluck my eyes out than be with them at night.
my Prayer, to go alone.... thank you for responding,
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I guess I am more direct and if you can’t be direct with your husband, then... just be open and honest. “ I want you to come and this is what you and I need to do” or “ I want to go alone so this is what I am asking you to do”. I think the game of waiting each other out causes an ugliness in hat might prevent you from enjoying your vacation if you do go alone. And don’t let the ugliness caused by FIL cause more of a rift than it has already. The men in my world are terrible at managing this kid Nd of stuff. It’s not right and it’s not fair but it is the way things are. If your goal is to get away with your husband, then just take over and get it done. If your goal is to go alone, say so and offer to help get things set up for FIL. That way, you can go in peace and don’t have to worry about your husband getting sick over it all
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi Daisyrose, thank you for your response.

You are right, not worth either of us getting sick over... I am indigestion almost every day and I know it is triggered by all of this.

Stay at tuned and thanks
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Hi, Sidelined. I was just thinking. Since it’s been a few weeks since this all came up, it looks like you may be going by yourself. In that case, if hubs picked your destination and it is not someplace you’re that crazy about, change the destination to where YOU want to go. Then go. Say no more about FIL’s destination. It’s getting to be a moot point. Your husband is fully aware of what he needs to do and he’s not doing it. So, give up. At this point, you’d be going by yourself to prove a point and that’s ok. I think it would work. It would be a wake-up call.
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi there, thank you for taking the time to follow up.
You are right, zero, nothing... zilch.... out of shear curiosity and hopes that I could underscore my point again, I did casually mention to hubs “what the final decision was”??? Surprise FIL has not even mentioned it again.... so I just said, well whatever you decide between the two options, but just be aware that things have changed a bit on both sides and you need to plan for that.... that was last week....

Here’s my biggest problem.... I am not willing to accept hubs half-ass plan at the last possible minute. Like you pointed out, some things never change. Hubs will be dumbfounded that I would even consider going without him, especially because this trip is for our anniversary and my birthday.... which is just another reason I can’t stand FIL and his self centered ways....

So I would be interested in your thoughts on how to proceed? I know what is coming..... nothing, nothing, nothing, then when it is time to go, hubs will start making prepared meals.... so stupid he a,ready afpgreed that is far from reasonable for 8 days!!!!!! I cannotbelieve the lengths he will go to in order to not upset his dad..... I guess it is OK for me to be upset. Seriously though, he will think I am making a big deal out of wanting to go alone just because he takes this path.... he will not get anything other than I should just be happy he is ha doing it! But that is not handling it....
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HI sidelined, I personally would not let hubs come up with a half-baked stay at home idea. If your FIL has been diagnosed as NOT being able to stay alone or in need of 24/7 care, you as the POA could be the one that gets nailed if something happens.

Can you calmly tell your FIL that you and hubs need some marriage time and even though you know he hates it, he needs to go. If he gets pissy about being able to take care of himself, let him see how unreal that is, don't feed him or help in anyway. Let him explain if he is so able why you or hubs needs to do anything, you are leaving for a vacay and wanted to see for yourself how well he will do.

Narcissistic behavior just ticks me off.
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sidelined Sep 2018
Omg I could not agree more (narcissistic behavior)... you don’t know how badly I want to get in his face and say, look, this is not OK!!!!
while he has not been pronounced “unable”to stay alone, it is more of a practical matter. A day or so... ok we can pre-prepare food, but he can’t do any of that, let alone for long periods of time. Tripping and falling is always a concern. He knows good and well that he is better off at respite care while we are away, but honestly I don’t think he gives any consideration to what we may need.... this roommate situation is driving me nuts.... I am so resentful.

you are right in that I should not have to go along with half baked ideas.... you can’t piece meal enough stuff to go off for a week and really have any peace of mind and relaxation.
You do raise an interesting pound about the poa thing... again, has not been “told” he has to have full care, but it is common sense.... thank you for weighing in. Stay tuned
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Correction the vacay is a week, I was just defending that we only had 23 days left before the week begins
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I totally understand. Would your husband agree to a week away ? He may think that 23 days is too long.

My next suggestion is not meant to offend you in any way but you need a break so go on your own.

Aisling
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi Trudy, thank you for your response. I must have mistyped something with respect to number of days away, it is 8. The 23 days was the number of days left before leaving... ow 18 days....

However, even if it were 8 hours, I would much prefer to go alone.... I need a break
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Posted under rocketjcat's comment on 9/7/18, posting here in case you missed it - drawing a line in the sand:

Well, rocketjcat saved me some typing today!! Pretty much what I would have said. Rather than just leaving that final "word" you gave him (asking yet again for him to do something), you do need to say "here is my line in the sand": pick a place for your father, make the arrangements and take him there OR I go on vacation alone. End of subject. And then stick to it.

I did this with my kids, and explained it all to them. THIS is the line, cross it or do not, YOUR choice, but consider the consequences of that decision. Sometimes I have to do similar tactics with my mother when she has an appointment and starts whining she doesn't need/want to go.

I have seen so many people who make that line with their kids, and then like in the cartoons, keep drawing a new line, and another, and another. They then learn (you are teaching them!) to keep pushing, and it will get worse as kids get older (or brain functions decline in elders.)

ONE LINE. Hubs, do this, or I go alone. PERIOD. And STICK TO IT!

Also, I would go with the AL facility - add to hubs sand line that he has until X-DATE to make arrangements.
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Great advice from everyone! I think we, as females, automatically become the primary caregivers and decision makers. Hubby procrastinated.... he’s reluctant to make a firm decision. Maybe he’s holding onto the past when his father made his own decisions, or is reluctant to force dad against his will into something he thinks he dad might not like....
if you want hubby on vacation with you, just call the AL you already liked, and be done with it. Executive decision made! Tell hubby “I’m doing what’s in the best interest of your dad- for his safety and health.”
Otherwise- bon voyage!!! Enjoy your well deserved vacation!
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi and thank you for your response! I totally agree about females/ nurturing and taking care of these types of Issues.

For the the life of me, I still cant understand why this is such an issue for hubby. I have laid it out there, I am ready and almost wishing to in in this vacay alone
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Hi Sidelined - Wow - tough situation and you sure got some good advice from people who have been there. I just wanted to chime in on FIL eventually moving into long term care since timing is an issue for your family. At least where I live, AL's/memory care have the option of not accepting Medicaid or requiring the resident to private pay for a while before they will accept Medicaid. The place where my Mom lives has a 2 year private pay requirement. I've crunched the numbers and keep updating my spreadsheet and I think we will make it, but it was a big factor for us in deciding where to go. Good luck!
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi there, thank you for the information. I will certainly research!
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I also agree that if your Husband does not push more after you have given the choices then he HAS made the choice to stay home with his Dad.
I do hope you enjoy the vacation.
Do not feel guilty.
I bet as you continue to pack, and make a couple of calls while your husband is in the room, one to the news paper to put the paper on hold for 2 weeks, call a friend to some in and water the plants (cuz you know hubby will be busy caring for his Dad) Also get the mail on hold for the duration. Make all these arrangements just in case your Husband realizes you are really going to go with or without him. He just may realize how important this is to both of you.
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Nope, I will read the other posts, but, my immediate response, is have a great time.

After reading the other posts,

I agree with you. If your husband doesn't make a decision, he is sure you will. After all, you probably always have. Don't do it!!! You have said your piece, go for it. Save all the other good advice for next time, and be sure there is a next time. I am totally in your corner.
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi Mary, thank you so much for responding. I agree, in that I am usually the one to figure things out. This is a little different in that hubs does not want to upset the “king”, and is avoiding pushing the issue. I am reAdy to just go by myself... it would cause a war, but planning a vacay under these circumstances is just not worth it
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WOW!! I feel for you. Getting people to do the right thing is difficult. Sounds like hubby has let FIL make him feel guilty. Our parents are good at this tactic and in the beginning it works.

Keep your reservations and let hubby know that you will be going with or without him. But you’d much rather he join you. You’ll gain some sanity with your vacay.

I recently had to take a much needed break. I gave hospice and the AL my sisters phone number and advised everyone that I would not be answering my phone. Everyone else needed to handle dad and any issues during this time. (Aside from him passing of course). It worked! Everything was handled and I was able to regroup and come back with a renewed outlook on everything.

So go and enjoy. Life does not wait. Time keeps moving and you cannot get back lost time. Make sure that you take hubby’s phone while on your vacay or it will be ruined with calls about FIL.

Wishing you the best
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sidelined Sep 2018
Wow thank you, and great advice! So glad you were able to break away! I hope to do the same!
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Does your DH know you will travel with out him and leave him at home with FIL? Is he ok with that? Problem solved.
But I also read you are the POA and not your husband. Is that correct? If so in the future I would not give either one of them choices or options on any decisions. You make the best one, make your announcement and carry on with life. That will hopefully eliminate this stress that you are going through now. Keep us posted! And Have fun in the sun!
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi Barb, that is a most interesting point regarding the
POA issue.... will definitely give that some thought.

here is where I am.... DH would not be surprised that I can handle traveling alone as I know done so for business and family needs in the past.... the BIG difference here is that this is OUR planned vacation, that he pushed for incidentally. I do think he would be surprised that I would take off on “our” vacation alone. Honestly I think he will continue to avoid, and ride this out until the end, try to put together some inadequate “meal plan, etc” coverage for his dad and go. I don’t think he has or would even fathom now going. He knows full well the caviots with each possibility and that time is not on our side. I have shared only a tidbit of what I know about respite care at ALs since there have been recent changes, and reiterated that I was concerned about having people we don’t know come into the house while we are away..... he just takes it in and then nothing.
the upshot here is that I would place a bet that he will not go back to FIL and press - FIL is just happy to sit here and not be bothered, nor apparently care that his son needs a vacay, and is willing to participate in ruining it by his behavior..... also, and here is the biggie and what I would ask for feedback on,,,,, I project that DH will do nothing, and until the last minute and spring it on me that he is just going to do some make shift meal plan, ask our son to drop by a couple of times to check on FIL, and that’s about it..... I just don’t think this “path of least resistance” is acceptable, am I just looking to stand my ground on principle, or am I right that this just allows this to continue unless I step in and fix it, which I am not doing.
I would really like to get feedback on:
1). If DH comes with (and I bet he will); the half baked idea already described... do I just let him know I don’t agree and stay out of it, in order to avoid the epic fight that is going to take place when I tell him that I think he should not go with me because he did not make proper arrangements? The reason I ask.... because he will blow up if I suggest such a thing.... he will turn the tables and accuse of me just not wanting him to go, and that as long he does whatever he does in order to go, I should not take this kind of stand; which totally negates the original discussions of the only 2 acceptable choices, winging it was not one of the two.

i am so tired and annoyed that I really would rather go alone.... I really need it. I know it makes me sound like a whimp, and really it is more a matter of whether I want to start and all out wear over this,, DH is great at turning things to do with FIL as “me”; he will say “ why do you care as long as he is taking care of it”; why does it have to be one of the two choices? What he does not understand is that this back peddling and not taking real action to deal with his dad is sickening to me and truly puts a big dent in my respect for DH? Any thoughts? Thank you so much to all for listening and weighing in.
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Time for you to talk to FIL & be frank about needing to get away so his choice is go willingly or go battling but go he will do - men are often reluctant to press their dad's buttons & back off too easily - then put him in a car with a very small suitcase because it is only for a few days [hide a bigger one if necessary] & take him - he will enjoy opening it

Leave a 'package' with staff of something for him that was 'sent' by you on
vacay [I put in diabetic chocolates for my mom] put on a return address label & fake a stamp with cancellation - this is to be given about 1/2 way through -

If hubby still won't co-operate then you go either alone or with a friend & send them both a postcard saying 'having a great time'
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sidelined Sep 2018
OneHi there and good morning! Those are great suggestions and I will definately keep them in mind, you are very clever!

I am totally on board with the going it alone options, as I really need it. I don’t think DH will be too happy about that, but he should stand up and take the lead.... he just does not understand how this makes him look in my eyes....
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Hi Sidelined,

It's your home and your vacation and up to you to protect both. Having a stranger in your home comes with risks. It sounds like your FIL needs 24-7 care while you're on vacation. That is expensive and, if one does not show up, you have a problem. It's just not worth it. Make the decision for your FIL that he is going to respite stay for 30-days at the AL you liked. Period.

Avoiders get what they want because people allow them to avoid making a decision. My FIL is an avoider and my husband hates confrontation but has gotten better at being proactive; I am a fixer and believe it's better to be proactive than reactive.
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sidelined Sep 2018
Hi NY daughter in law, sounds like we are a lot alike and have similar issues. You are SO right, avoiders stay that way when enabler/fixers take over. This is most visible in this situation with FIL, it’s like a God complex, which I get fussed at for saying that, that’s why I switched to calling FIL the “king”. No popular but I feel better....

so so when you have an avoider who comes up with a half-ass last minute decision regarding how to handle the this, all outing the burden on us, in order not to make the king uncomfortable, how do I handle that.
? Be glad I had to do nothing and let it go, or stand and insist that his “solution” are not acceptable? FIL can be alone, he just can’t prepare any meals, drinks, etc. fall issues are also a concern. Like I responded to another post, DH will try to make me feel that I am being unreasonable by not going along with whatever DH comes up with.... it is almost not even worth it when you spend a month in advance arguing about care for FIL! Hell, maybe they should go and leave me alone....
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