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Several months ago I posted that although I am POA and have been taking care of my parents affairs, suddenly one of my brothers is becoming more involved and asserting great influence over my dad. The saga continues...


My mom, 96 is in fast decline and they are currently sharing a room in an LTC. I was only able to get them to go into an LTC 5 months ago so all of this is relatively new. At the time we did the application I, of course, was the contact and at the request of the rest of the family (twin brothers and SIL) I made LTC closer to where my brother and SIL live w/3 year wait the number one choice. (we knew that the number two which they're in was going to be available quickly and they needed help)


So I moved my parents into a place 15 minutes from where there had been living and helped them get comfy. My family lives in Canada and I'm currently living in NY so in order to assist them I was away from my home for 12 weeks only to find that once I left my brother started to make more contact and attempted to get them moved to the place near him (they currently live 3 hours away from my brothers). Suffice to say he could do nothing and was given no information about their files because I was on the application. (and yet I would be happy to share info if he would contact me.)


I was calmed by all the advice I got from all of you, unfortunately things are changing in this last week. On the weekend Dad told me that once mom goes he wants to go live with my brother and SIL.


Here's the problem: my brother is an alcoholic and he gets physical w/his wife. He's chronically late and over-schedules himself. She has just started a new business and is working on it 7 days a week. Did I mention they've currently got a cash flow issue?


Environment is a problem also. Very rural with no neighbors that are yelling distance, both bro and SIL are out from 7:30 am to 6:00 at least. Dad is 91, forgetful and diabetic. And he can't cook.


So I suspect as POA and what's called a Certificate of Competency? from the LTC doctor, I can over-ride any attempts my bros make to take him out to live with them? That said I'm wondering about the future and submitting expenses as POA and Executor? If bro has dad living with him there would no doubt be expenses that he should ordinarily claim. That said, I've accumulated a lot of debt covering car rental for 3 months, being away from home etc. It will be a very small estate and if my brother starts to incur costs too, (keeping in mind my brother would not be out of pocket if my dad stays where he is.) there won't be anything left for our other brother. I hate talking about money but just wonder if monies for expenses would be paid in the order they were incurred??

'Ang on.

You and your husband paid out how much for professional care services for your parents over that time they were still at home?

And you're in debt as a result?

And meanwhile, and still, your parents, now your father, have been paying $500 a month into a *savings* account?

This is bonkers. Take the invoices with you and get it paid. I appreciate that you will have to explain it extra-lucidly but it is a straightforward debt that simply shouldn't be there, on which you and your husband must be paying interest.
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If only for your SIL's sake, I think you should do all you can, as non-confrontationally as you can, to make sure this idea never gets off the ground.

Moving him is a bad idea. Five months may not be all that long, but still that's five months of adjustment and relationships developed with his existing care team, in the area he's been used to for his married life.

The proposed setting is isolated (X), the available support is extremely limited (X), the time proposed for the move is one when your father will already be highly stressed (X) - even if your brother were a pattern of sober industry, the drawbacks are overwhelming.

You don't need to say anything to your brother for the time being, unless he brings it up. If he does bring it up, you can perhaps agree to give it thought without committing yourself.

You do need to respond to your father; but you don't need to say yay or nay. Your mother is, sadly, declining; but rather than make the next plan urgent that just means he has enough to cope with for now. Reassure him that when the time comes, there will be plenty of time to consider the best options for him.

Expenses that you are incurring now solely for the benefit of your parents as their POA you should also be claiming now. You should not be left out of pocket. Do not defer this until after your parents' death. Have you taken out a separate credit card or something? - what do you mean about the accumulated debt?
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Ahmijoy Feb 27, 2019
Impressive answer, CM!
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You state your brother is an alcoholic and has severe anger issues. It is severe if he is showing force. He lives with his wife who he abuses in an isolated area. Your father has serious health issues. It would seem that your brother is contacting him since your father is speaking of living with him. Then you ask about the order of expenses being reimbursed if that were to happen. Perhaps and hopefully you have no intention of this but it is confusing. I would ask why you have this brother in your lives. Yes he is family but he is exhibiting dangerous behavior. Maybe you should just ask your financial questions and leave your brother out of it which hopefully would be the case unless he changes. Even if he were to how can you be assured of this living far away. I feel for your situation. I really do. I just hope your parents can remain safe and cared for in the proper environment.
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BaileyP3 Feb 27, 2019
All good questions. Fact is in the last 20 years I've seen my brother 2 times. These are behaviors that are kept in check when he visits my parents so altho my sil and my other brother have confided his violent tendencies I've kept my distance.

As of November my sil was very worried about money and told me with their work schedules they wouldn't be able to visit my parents very frequently and that I was being selfish for not staying in Canada to care for my parents while we wait to get them into the LTC 10 minutes away from my brother's house. (the one with the 3 year wait.)

I suspect that money is that carrot that I could dangle (as in, reminding them that caring for Dad is not a lottery win, it's a full time commitment that require patience, calmness and the ability to respond to his needs quickly) with the hope that my brother will lose interest if he realizes this. And for added impact, I need to get his twin onboard otherwise I'll be tag teamed by them and my dad.
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I agree with the advice already given. DO NOT let your brother take your dad to live with him. It does not sound like your father will get the care and attention he needs in your brother's him. It is a disaster in the making. Please, please, please leave dad where he is even if mom should pass first.

Did you ask why brother and dad want this? Do you think your brother may be manipulating dad somehow? Is he trying to get some of dad's cash? If your brother physically abuses his wife there is a very good chance he would also abuse a helpless elderly man. Your dad's safety would also be greatly compromised by being alone all day as you say he is forgetful.
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BaileyP3 Feb 27, 2019
Hi Sanibel, Thx for taking the time to respond. I've already covered this off in some of my other responses but in short I think that my brother planted the seed and Dad would prefer to not be in LTC, honestly thinking he's only there because Mom wouldn't going in w/o him. This may have been the case to begin with but he's also declined in the last 5 months.

If I were to guess I would say money is about #4 on the list of reasons that my bro wants Dad to live with him. 1. he wants a closer relationship with
Dad 2. he wants my niece and nephew to have a closer relationship with Dad 3. he wants to flex his muscles and control the situation (he's very unhappy that I've taken the lead on their care, w/o realizing how much work is involved) and 4. the money wouldn't hurt.

Obviously I can't argue the first to reasons. It would be great if my brother was able to spend more time with my dad (and mom). The fact of the matter is he's had a tenuous relationship with Mom for years and when I moved from Canada 15 years ago I encouraged my parents to relocate closer to their sons but my mom (and dad) would have no part of it. They failed to prepare for this stage of life so this where we are.

I have to say, every morning I wake up feeling like I have to go out and slay another dragon (as I'm sure most us do on this site) but this one blindsided me. I spent upwards 5 hours yesterday contacting appropriate parties within the system making sure I'm protecting my dad's health interests while preparing for my mom's passing. Add to this, these brothers and I are all that's left of the family once my parents are gone so by going into battle I'm essentially ending any familial relationships I have. When I have to block this decision, Dad will be heartbroken that he is living so far away and alone and my twin brother's will tag team me. It's sad and wrong and I have to find a way to discourage my brother from wanting Dad at his house and if telling him there's no economic benefit does the job I'm good.
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Listening to your post and the issues and personalities involved all I could think was Stop and do not pass Go regarding the consideration of having your father possibly move in ever with your father. There are so many red flags. The isolated location, their business hours and alcoholism are not a good match for any elderly person. I truly cannot imagine anything beneficial with that scenario. You are considering the situation of expenses which is important but could eventually be minuscule in comparison with the well being of your father. I hope you get more advice. My mind is spinning with what you have relayed about your brothers choices. Your father should not be subject to what I feel will result in abuse even if it is not intentional.
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BaileyP3 Feb 26, 2019
Oh goodness, I think I need to clarify something. I can't believe I worded my question that way. In or no way do I want him moving from where he and my mother currently are unless it's another LTC. He is past the stage where he should or could be living without 24 hour assistance.

My brother is a man who has a short attention span, a bad temper and won't take no for an answer. As you saw in my initial post I'm very concerned about the environment and behaviors it will not be a successful bonding experience my brother is trying to create. Instead it will put my dad in danger. The question I should be asking is how do I make sure to prevent it since all I can rely on is that someone at the LTC would stop them if they tried to walk out the door? And then of course the second question. The point of asking about money is because I'm aware of the cashflow problems they have right now and sense the potential of hosting dad and having his pension pay a portion of their mortgage may be an additional incentive. Add to that I am also aware that my other brother (his twin) would influence this decision if he felt money were a factor.

Hope that clarifies..thx
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First off, you should have your expenses as POA covered now, not later. Those are legitimate expenses and you should not have to wait for payment.

If you are Executrix of the Will (sorry I am assuming you are a woman), then your expenses for performing those duties will come out of whatever money is in the estate when Dad dies.

I am guessing Dad has a pension, CPP perhaps OAS too? I am not sure how it works in Ontario, but here in BC most the pensions go to paying for the nursing home care.

So Mum is still alive, Dad is just making plans for after she passes? Remind him there is no guarantee that she will pass first. Until things start to come to a head, do not play the POA and incompetency cards with Dad or brother. But be sure to tell the LTC that brother can visit, but he cannot remove Dad.

Having something left for anyone should be the last thing you are worrying about. Proper care for both parents is number one. If when Dad dies there is nothing to divide up, that is ok.
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BaileyP3 Feb 26, 2019
Mom is in late stage dementia and quickly declining. She's only taking liquids now and is in diapers and as well she has heart problems and has needed to be transfused 3 times in the last 5 months.

I call daily to speak to them and am trying to prepare my dad for the inevitable. Unfortunately any time he's in communication with my brothers (every 10 days or so) they remind him that if only he lived nearby they would visit. The brother I've mentioned and my SIL just moved to a rural environment into a house that has strapped them financially.

My point to mentioning the financial aspects was poorly worded. I am suspecting that my brother thinks of Dad being with him would be a bonding experience almost like having one of their adult children back at home (not realizing it's more like having a pre-schooler at this point). There's no doubt that he has alluded to the fact (as we were getting them into the LTC last autumn) that if mom went into the local LTC near brother then dad could stay with them and they could help each other economically.

Most of the problem here is a failure to communicate. In the past I called, I texted, I tried to facetime (he doesn't have email and doesn't know how to use a computer) but he's pouting because he wanted to direct this stage of my parents life. When I got them into an LTC quickly rather than opting to stay in Canada indefinitely, (away from my own family and life) he opted to stop speaking to me.

The intention to find out details about renumeration is so that I'll at least have some facts to provide him with should the need arise. (he's big on research and therefore very uninformed but thinks he's the brightest guy in the room.) I will be reminding him that Dad requires insulin 4 a day, sees a doctor once per week, etc etc but if the past is any indication it will not faze him. It would be, 'I know, I know' so the only thing that may wake him up is if I turn it into an issue of money. Very poorly worded on my part. Thx for the reply.
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