Father in law (93) in nursing home. My husband has POA. He was placed in nursing home in ND by his wife then divorced. Recommendations?

I've read your profile. "I am caring for someone, living in assisted living with alzheimer's / dementia." Who is this person if it is not your FIL?

Imho, are you so sure that FIL cannot file for Medicaid? The lookback period as far as the condo goes is in a countdown till the end of the year, 2020. Then that will not be a factor.

Didn't finish my original attempt to comment, so it's gone, but it needed revision anyway.

The bad news is ND is listed as one of the filial responsibility states. The good news is IN GENERAL these haven't been used, but the potential is there. Being POA or not will not change that. I would recommend keeping the POAs until some progress can be made, as you may need it to start discussion if you find an Elder Law atty.

Other sites were given. There is also naela.org - use zip code to find locals. I used Bismarck, ND and also selected range of 100 miles and 5 attys were listed. Also, at the bottom of that page is an email link. If calls or emails to the ones listed by this site are not returned, try that email link - it goes to the org itself and they may be able to find someone to help.

Hopefully the payments you made were from HIS account, signed as POA. If you paid with his funds, but your account, they may interpret that as you being the responsible party. If there is anyone at the NH in admin, or this atty who sent the letter that you can talk to, they may have suggestions. If they are threatening to send his info to collections, what exactly do they think that will do? He can't work with collections and has little/no money other than his income, which I presume they are getting already? One ray of hope is that collections uses skip tracing and starts on the former wife. They can make her life miserable!

Hopefully you can make contact with an EC atty licensed in ND. Not only will that be needed for him, but also to protect you. Although it should be his funds to pay for the atty, you may, at some point, have to pay for the legal services to ensure HE gets what he needs (Medicaid) and to protect YOU from having to pay for part of his care. Although it can't hurt to try to get a free consult with EC atty in your area, who might be able to answer your concerns about how this will affect you, they most likely are not licensed in ND, but perhaps they can link you up with someone who is.

Hopefully this can be resolved by making him a ward of the state - in that case, he would be under state guardianship. If so, that negates your POA. The only downside is that you would have no say in where he lives or what care he gets.

They may be more difficult to find, but hopefully you can find an EC atty who can work pro bono or on the cheap to get this resolved. No one needs this hanging over their head! One can also hope that perhaps this attorney could take her on and recoup some of the lost funds. Shady deal - how they can push this through the courts when someone is in NH, incapable of really understanding anything is beyond me, but it unfortunately happens.

Let them send him to collections. He has no money left to collect from. I would apply to Medicaid though, don't worry so much about that quit claim deed in 2016. Just continue to pay whatever funds he has to the NH, tell them there is no more money, tell the social worker and finance business person there to help apply him for Medicaid. There is not much more you can do. If they want to try to collect, let them try to collect whatever they can from him. Remember they can't collect from you. You personally do not pay them one penny from your money. The nursing home cannot evict him to the streets, it is against the law. They may find some reason to send him to the hospital though and then when the hospital discharges him, tell the hospital that his bed is no longer available, then the hospital will have to find another location for him. That may happen. But there's not much more you can do except trying to hire a bulldog lawyer to look into going after the ex wife.

The federal government has a program called Aging and Disability Resource Centers. Every state has an office that administers the program and provides resources. Usually there is a an office in every country of the state. You could explore what support is available in ND.

https://acl.gov/programs/aging-and-disability-networks/aging-and-disability-resource-centers

Take care. I know these things are extremely difficult and heartbreaking.

The federal government has a program called Aging and Disability Resource Centers. Every state has an office that administers the program and provides resources. Usually there is a an office in every country of the state. You could explore what support is available in ND.

https://acl.gov/programs/aging-and-disability-networks/aging-and-disability-resource-centers

Not necessarily, ZenZen. The wife might be of a similar age and her representatives - attorney, family, whoever - saw this as a way of protecting her.

Lschla, to rewind a bit: so, when the settlement paid to your father was less than the sum agreed, what happened about that? And are you sure Medicaid can't help? In any case, the lookback as far as the condo money is concerned ends in six months; so perhaps your priority seems to be to get the NH to stop being so short-sighted in their treatment of him. Have you spoken directly to any decision-makers at the NH? - that's what I'd do first.

Let me get this straight. Your husband's father is 93 years old in a nursing home that is threatening to send him to collection. His wife divorced him, cleaned him out, and stopped paying the bill. That's called elder abuse and should be reported. People go to jail for it all the time.

Secondly, who is watching out over your father in law and making sure he s being properly cared for? Where is your husband? Does he have any siblings? This is his father.

What do you mean your husband wants to give up POA and you both just want to be done with it? Am I missing something here?

Your husband is going to abandon his father. If there's one thing I've learned in life is to watch how people treat other people. You can expect the same treatment from them eventually. Don't get real sick is all I can say for you with a husband who wants to give up POA for his father and let the state take care of him.

That poor man. I can only imagine his loneliness and hurt. At 93 he's in a nursing home and appears he is alone with no one to care. His wife robbed him and left and his son doesn't want to be bothered it seems. Being a parent is a thankless job. Really a shame this is happening to him.

Is there a nursing home close by you where he an be transferred to? He is elderly and needs help. He should be eligible for Medicaid. It's as easy as applying online for him.

He only gets about $2,000/per month. Medicaid will pay a portion and your father in law will pay the rest. He'll be allowed to keep $105/month which can be used for personal items. I'm sure he could use a haircut , shave, some slippers, shirts, pants, pajamas, etc.

Read Dr. Sam Sugar’s book Guardianship The Elderly The Perfect Crime. Netflix Dirty Money and VOICE Advocates of Michigan to learn how some Judges nationwide are not following the law in Probate elderly guardianship cases causing early nursing home admissions snd death and legal abuse syndrome and how to try to prevent it before it happens to your loved one. Judges can revoke all prearrangements you have for end of loge including Patient Advocate and lawyers will not tell you this when you pay them for these documents. To much info., so please do your research and join to make changes!

File a hardship waiver request with Medicaid.

There are ways around getting the assistance he needs. Does the nursing home accept Medicaid?

wwww.nelf.org is the best place to find a certified elder law attorney to represent your FIL.

Is your father in law a veteran? If yes he might be eligible for a VA pension to cover medical expenses. Your local VA office could help you. The program is called Aid and Assistance.

1 - POA is not responsible to pay bills out of their own pockets.

2 - You need a ND lawyer that specializes in family law - one that specializes in elder law would be better.

3 - Talk to social services at nursing home - they all have one. Let them know FIL's situation and ask for their help.

4 - Find the elder care board for his state, city, county... whichever one you can find for help. If that doesn't work try AARP and local BBB.

I believe there is an organization or you could even google for a CERTIFIED Elder Law Attorney. This is a very complicated situation and his ex wife may have done some things she may be held accountable for I'd guess. You might want to connect with Adult Protective Services in the city where your FIL resides. At least for a referral if need be. Nursing homes will be gracious to solicit business and fill beds, and then exploit every avenue and threat possible to get as much money as they can from whomever they can. I wouldn't respond or make a move until consulting with an attorney ASAP. Drop it in their lap and let them handle it.

Does the nursing home he is in accept medicaid?

It seems to me that your best bet is to work with the social worker at the facility on next steps. Explain the money/divorce situation and that you have no difficulty with giving up POA and allowing the State to become his guardian.

This is your first rodeo, but she will have seen this situation before and may be your best source of advice and referral.

As noted by others, do not use your funds in this endeavor and remember that some social workers use guilt to try to make relatives think they are personally responsible (you're not). If that is the case, the state ombudsman would be the next call you make to advocate for your loved one.

I'm so sorry you are mired in this awful situation.

I know that you said that he is not eligible for medicaid but have you actually tried applying? I ask because you may be able to file a waiver of some kind due to the circumstances. You also stated that he had "full blown Alzheimer's when he signed the Quit Claim Deed. If this can be proven you may be able to apply for medicaid. It is worth a try if you haven't already. I hope that this works out for you and your dad.

Another source for elder law in ND, but only 2 listed:

https://www.nolo.com/lawyers/nursing-home-or-elder-abuse/north-dakota

Ugh, she was a predator. We had one operate in our family (a CG who drained the stroke victim of everything and literally even took his dog). I'm guessing you don't have the funds or appetite to pursue her for theft/elder financial abuse? I was just thinking that if you looked at SD or the states bordering ND they might have attorneys who have duel licenses. I totally get there are not enough attorneys in ND, I needed to find one for a collections case and couldn't. My final comment is that if you know where the ex is, and you don't pursue legal charges against her, she won't show up in a background check and she'll go on to victimize others. These predators count on this. They know EXACTLY what they are doing. But I totally don't blame you if you're just done with it. ((hug))

I have called almost every attorney in Bismarck, Fargo and Mandan. They either don't call back, tell me this situation is complicated and they cannot help or refer to someone else, whom wont call back. It's a cluster......

To answer some of the questions above:
The division of assets was not accurate, when we went to the bank, the funds were significantly less then what was produced to the judge during the divorce hearing.
He signed the quit claim deed while suffering from full blown alzheimer's. He had no clue what he was signing.
He is not eligible for medicaid as he sold the family home here in WA state, she took those funds and we cannot account for them, in addition to the quit claim deed above.
WA state attorneys will not even hear our case as they cannot practice or respond to any inquiry to a letter from an attorney in ND as their license will be compromised.
He has no remaining assets, everything was cashed in (IRA's etc etc) and we sent the money to the nursing home, paid his taxes (federal and state) and paid upfront for his cremation, $4100.00 in the state of ND, by the way.... :(
He has 3K left in a checking that we have kept to use for incidental, he has monthly pharmacy and physician bills coming in.

His ex-wife most definitely had this planned and executed her agenda quite well. It's a shame this can actually happen in todays day and age to and elderly man, with terminal alzheimer's, to be robbed and left to accumulate debt and then have his son's in another state left holding the bag.....

We just want to remove ourselves from the situation all together.

Very sorry, you need a local lawyer.   In many states, a spouse cannot divorce an incompetent spouse.

Look here to see if you can find a ND elder law attorney:

https://nelf.org/search/custom.asp?id=5427

Also, if you resign as PoA the NH or the county will pursue guardianship over him, and I'm not sure if that will then allow him to qualify for Medicaid. Not sure what happens when some is "abandoned" (and I know you are not really abandoning him). If this happens all assets and properties will then be controlled by the guardian and you won't be privy to any of their actions, nor will you be able to dictate where he is placed for care. You can certainly retain your relationship with him and communicate things to the guardian, you just won't be make any decisions on his behalf. They will inform you when he passes and the county will pay for his cremation. He will not be given a funeral or have a non-cremation burial. You can request his ashes and they will ship it to you. This is how it happened for our family in MN. I'm sorry for your family's distress. May you get resolution and receive peace in your hearts.

I'd get a legal opinion on how best to proceed. Is the asset transfer the only issue? I'd explore from attorney who practices in that field about transfers pursuant to divorce, as they may not be considered the same as other transfers. Normally, transfers pursuant to divorce are tax exempt as well. I'm no expert, but, explore with an expert. ALSO, Quit Claim deed is not the same as regular deed.

Also, inquire about the POA's duty. It's not really their legal duty to pay the debts with their personal funds, but, only those that of the person who's finances they are managing. An attorney who is well versed in Medicaid should be able to lay out the options.

I am afraid that the divorce has robbed Dad of money, and his spouse may have done it to protect her own assets best she can. This is what we come to in this country. As far as removing yourself as POA, I would do that for all but health. Go to an Elder Law Attorney and get the letter drawn up declaring your intention. Sounds as though your Dad is soon out of money and then the nursing home and social workers will have to decide where, with state funds he can stay. Was he suffering from dementia at the time he signed a quit claim? You may do very well now to see an elder law attorney for one hour for advice on where things stand legally in your own state, and what are the best moves to make for yourselves and for your Dad. WhatEVER you do do NOT use funds that you and husband will need for YOURSELVES when you meet this time in your own lives as you have seen what can happen.