My mom is elderly and she was working with people that turned to be very crooked and took her money and forced her to sell her property to get her money.
I may not know what all of her assets are, but definitely secure those assets and even sell if necessary. Another thought if she doesn't want to sell and she's still competent is to put all assets into a trust as long as you can select a trustworthy trustee. It sounds to me like she definitely needs someone to take over her financial affairs, this is better done through guardianship in some cases. One thing you may very well want to do is become a representative payee and alert Social Security to what's going on. Just make sure to keep a close records of where all of her money has gone and definitely save all receipts. What I would do is give her an allowance, but only give her a prepaid card. Don't let her hang onto this card. That way, not only will it not get lost or stolen, but this lessens the chance of someone trying to take advantage of her through her debit card by tricking her into withdrawing money from the ATM or buying them stuff. Hold onto her prepaid card and only used the allowance that's on that card on her
Consider the fact there may be a situation already going on that we don't know about. The person's device may have gone down or they may have lost access to their account, this can happen. Another thing to consider is the possibility that person may already be doing something and it's in the process right now. We just don't know the whole picture of what's really going on. For all we know, the person may have already read the replies and may have started out and gone right to work on resolving the problem.
Hopefully the person didn't do something and get into legal trouble and get caught up in jail or even prison. It's very angry thing to have our loved ones taken advantage of, this can leave us tempted to cross the line and take matters into our own hands. This would keep someone from following up with a thread in a heartbeat. I only hope the person didn't do anything illegal and get in trouble because the person's elder really needs them.
1RareFind, if you go back and read the thread from the beginning, I think you'll see what I mean. I don't give up on folks easily. But I've given this poster all the advice I've got.
OK, I understand where you're coming from. I will review the post from the beginning, but just remember we don't know what's really going on and off-line. I hope this situation come to a happy ending though.
Earlier in the thread, I noticed you said your mom doesn't want you to take her to a doctor and go with her, and she won't give you the names of her doctors either. You mentioned that it sounds like something's wrong there, and you're probably right. It sounds to me like there may be something about her medical records that she's actually hiding, possibly that she's secretly declining and may be developing dementia or Alzheimer's and she's too ashamed of what's going on to reach out for help. My foster dad was very secretive, he would never talk much about his doctor visits, that's his right to confidentiality. However, sometimes this can be detrimental because when the person becomes too vulnerable physically and mentally, they become easy prey for vultures. I think your mom might be afraid of what may become of her if her secret leaks out, and I don't blame her for being afraid because too many times people who take over their affairs end up taking advantage of them and instead of helping the person, they help themselves to whatever they want. This is probably the number one reason why elderly try so hard to defend themselves in any way they know how, and one of them is secrecy. One thing to ask is are you sure someone inside the doctor's office isn't somehow in on this scam? Maybe the former coworker works there? This is something that crossed my mind and I felt I should ask. Another thing to reconsider as patient confidentiality. DPOA gives you the power to make medical decisions if she becomes incapacitated to the point of inability to make her own medical decisions.
The DA told you to look at her prescription bottles, but why? Are there some meds that can alter her judgment?
Withdrawing money in the thousands is a huge red flag, even with drawing in the hundreds is a big enough red flag, but definitely in the thousands is an obvious red flag something's going on and someone is taking advantage of her and helping themselves and it sounds to me like someone may be threatening your mom just from the description of things. You mentioned a woman who happens to be a former coworker. Have you gone to that place where they work together to see if this person may have been fired for something? It may be this person worked with money? Maybe the person stole from the company? This is just a thought. Conservatorship really sounds like a winner according to the lawyer you spoke with, this may very well be the way to go in this case. However, if you both are living in separate states, I would ask that lawyer how that would work. Learn the laws of both states and go from there. Yes, just from your description, it sounds like it's time for guardianship.
Yes, the DA's office is different than the adult protective services.
You have a joint account? Yes, you can definitely pull up the records on that account whether you realize it or not. From your description of writing a check to turn into cash especially if it was large amounts in the thousands, this is definitely a red flag. It sounds to me like maybe the scammer wanted her to give them cash. If the scammer deposited the cash, yes, there would likely be some kind of record somewhere as long as the cash was actually deposited somewhere. Another possibility is if the scammer closed their account and kept the cash or maybe send it overseas somewhere, or maybe they had the cash somewhere. There's another possibility of opening multiple accounts at multiple banks and spreading the cash out between accounts making it harder to find. Valid point about her coming in alone, another valid point about cameras outside the lobby. However, remember that video surveillance usually doesn't store back very long, be prepared to find this out for yourself. If it does go back very far, try to get a hold of it or find out where it's stored even if you have to subpoena that record. Definitely get a hold of those records even if the scammer happened to be waiting in their car in the parking lot or maybe somewhere off the premises if the camera covers that far out
I'm thinking someone your mom is contacting is most likely someone within her contacts who is probably scamming her. She may not even realize she's being scammed and she's protecting whoever this is and she probably thinks it's a business matter. Anyone doing business transactions protects clientele, and she may be confusing legit business with scamming. This would be causing her to protect the wrong people, which means she would be doing business with the wrong kind of people. Whoever this is is probably not contributing to her bank account or her well-being and is therefore not entitled to your mom's money or assets. You're right to feel that something wrong is probably occurring, which is exactly why she won't tell you who she talks to through her cell phone. It's good that you have her ss number and were able to get access to her cell account. I was helping my foster dad with a phone situatio
I'm thinking someone your mom is contacting is most likely someone within her contacts who is probably scamming her. She may not even realize she's being scammed and she's protecting whoever this is and she probably thinks it's a business matter. Anyone doing business transactions protects clientele, and she may be confusing legit business with scamming. This would be causing her to protect the wrong people, which means she would be doing business with the wrong kind of people. Whoever this is is probably not contributing to her bank account or her well-being and is therefore not entitled to your mom's money or assets. You're right to feel that something wrong is probably occurring, which is exactly why she won't tell you who she talks to through her cell phone. It's good that you have her ss number and were able to get access to her cell account. I was helping my foster dad with a phone situation, and I know what you mean by having to let the agent also speak to the account owner for security purposes despite you representing the owner. I don't recall how many times we passed that phone back-and-forth, but the matter was resolved. Maybe you might want to do a conference call with the cell phone company where all of you are on speakerphone, this is a suggestion to consider. You can try coming up with some kind of trick to get her to give you permission to access the call logs, but be prepared for the possibility that she may be smarter than you think, so be prepared for the possibility for her to outsmart you and counter your efforts. This is another good reason why guardianship is probably a good idea. You can gain guardianship and use that power in good ways and even gain access to the call logs. An easier way to do that is to see if you can get a hold of her cell phone. This is where you may have to think outside the box and come up with a clever strategy. Find out where she keeps the cell phone and track it by watching very close. The idea is to get a hold of that sell phone when she's not looking, the best time is when she's in the shower or sleeping for starters. Just find some time when she's distracted away from the cell phone and grab it. Next, rush the cell phone away to a safe location where you can go through her call records. When she goes to find the phone, of course she'll say her phone is missing, and in a way it is but in a it's really not. The first thing you're going to want to do is to mute the phone so she can't hear it if it rings, definitely start there once you're in a safe location with the phone. Next, probe around and find the call records. Make note of every phone number if she hasn't yet cleared the call log. Call all of those numbers to see who answers. Ask if they know your mom but referred to her by name. Find a clever way to specify that you heard a lot about them and then ask about this business they are doing with her. Hopefully her phone has speakerphone and you have a recorder to pick up everything.
You mentioned a former POA over your mom. Perhaps a little legal action I'll get all that money back where it belongs since there is a record somewhere of this person handling her money. Yes, even abusive people have gained access to other people's accounts and maybe whoever is scamming your mom is also abusive just from the sound of this. Yes, the DA will close a case if proof lacks. As mentioned here, yes, the money may be gone and all too often people lose hope of ever making thieves repay what they stole but it does happen. I also agree with forming a closer relationship with your mom while at the same time looking out for her well-being, part of that well-being may very well involve getting as much of that money back as possible so that she'll have it for her care. If she's applying for Medicaid, you'll definitely want to find a local branch and speak to them in person about what you described here. Take all the records you possibly can if she's applying for Medicaid. I'm glad you were able to put all of her remaining assets into a trust and be her trustee. What I would recommend is closing out the old account and moving all of her money to a new one. Deactivate all of her cards and set up auto online bill pay for all of the bills so no one will have to worry about any running around because the bank will do all of the work for you. When this is all over, deactivate her cell phone and get her a new one or you can change her number. Clean out her contacts, clear the call logs, text records, etc. The best thing would probably be to reset the phone if you plan to keep it, but it may be better just to give her a new phone. Check her off-line address book and give her a new one after putting in trusted contacts. Those trusted contacts should also be the only ones in her new phone. Work with the provider to activate call forwarding to you. If it's a trusted contact, you can forward the call to her. In other words, be her call filter
Thank you...thank you...for all the suggestions........i have done a few things...Ive secured the remaining property that she still has.. all changed to my name,she has a new bank account with my name added to it,I no longer(actually I stopped giving her cash money when I found out about this back in jan.2015)give her any kind of cash whatsoever,installing monitoring devices where I would be able to see everything around her place directly from my phone(this is in progress) and going to contract a detective when I visit her there for thanksgiving.The reason for my not immediately following through with all the things you all suggested that I do..is because there is no other family member here...and I'm the only one that has to do all this........and it has taken time..I will follow through though...poor mom..she has lost amounts in three digits...it hurts me.....but yes I'll follow through and thank you all.God bless you.
veryconcerned, Glad you're slowly resolving this, it must be very hard being the only one having to go through this alone. You're not alone, God is with you! My advice to you now is to do the right thing and be honest at all times. Keep a very close records of every dime and all receipts. Mark on those receipts what was bought and keep inventory of everything. When I lived at a group home after my rescue from an abusive home, I have actually landed at a specific group home that would periodically take inventory of everything we had, specifically our clothes. There were three categories of good, fair, and poor. You might want to also take inventory of your mom's clothes, linens and other stuff she uses and periodically replace worn items. When those items are replaced, use her money for replacing those items and make a record of that and mark each receipt. Let's say she needed three new shirts. Take her money to replace those shirts and mark that on the receipt, and also mark the date. Keep those receipts in a safe place. It used to be said to keep your receipts for seven years, I think this is a good practice
Thank you 1rare and all of you.I will do that......but realistacly,she has no more money to her name,so thats why I"ve added her to my credit card,so that when ever she needs something "legit" like linens,pay for meds and food,she charges those to my card,but now....hahh..she receives her ss check every month and I wil lwant top know how she spends that money...it isnt much but still these syndicated scammers might be forcing her to give them more cash from that check.I already have my plane ticket and will be there around the 15th of this month......to assist the phone company to install internet there(she's 80 years old and doesnt use that but I will) at her condo..to then install systems of surveilance all around her place..probably via satellite.I've gotta be savy with the technology. So thank you all for your encouragements/suggestions.I feel better today because of your help.Oh.I also want to have an appointment with the texas attorney general concerning my mom's catastrophy.
My sister found a "best friend" who was taking $500. a month from her very meager SS check. She had my sister's ATM card and password. Sis had a stroke and mild dementia. I didn't pursue legal avenues because of the time and expense it would take. Bottom line, I knew the "best friend" would say "she gave it to me" bla, bla, bla! I had my sister moved closer to me and changed banking account. Minimize your aggravations. As we all know, life can be short.
Unfortunately, this goes on all the time. I'm sorry it happened to your Mother. I would report them, but you will need proof. I hope she can recover all if not part of her money, and also expose them to stop them from scamming others. Good luck.
Putting property in your name could turn and bite you--there are tax implications and Medicaid implications if she needs Medicaid in less than 5 years. You're probably better off with it in a trust, with you as trustee. Check with a good elder affairs lawyer in her location asap!
And thank you for all the suggestions.I am still my mom's dpoa,I have the remaining properties fully in my name,Ive changed her bank accounts.what I need to do is get a major law enforcement agency to talk to this former poa of my mom...sho actually turned to be frivolous too.and i didn't want to say this in a loud way, but in occasions when I would ask my mom who stole all her money, and i would say to her "was it the mafia ,mom?"She would reply to me saying "don't use or say anything about that ,I don't want to talk about it"...so when i used the term dark scammers organized scammers,I was actually referring to ..yes....organized crime......because where my mom worked..in that salon,I believe there were some shady people there, and I think that that woman who swindled my mom out of all her funds, is tied to organized crime.Thats why i said in the past that I have to be careful in handling this.I think thats why my mom doesn't want to talk about it.But they still can threaten her, but I need to arm myself with the right tools/agencies.....
Hope your mother is ok. Are you two estranged? She still living far away from you? Fortunately it appears that you have moved on somewhat. It's terrible what happened but al least you still have your mom; mine passed away 4 years ago today.
funny no one can give me any suggestions as to what to do at this point.......just because I mentioned "organized crime?"....ia that why you ppl don't say anything else but to ask if my moms doing ok........
Well, how is she? Feeling well, thriving physically, living in one of her properties or have you moved her out of the scene of the crime? Have you been able to gather receipts and begin prosecution of the alleged swindlers? Are the women you feel were involved still in your mother's circle. Can you give us a progress report? I read many great suggestions to help resolve this situation and was wondering which ones have worked for you. D
Im getting with a social worker to see if he can have woman 1 subpoenaed to see what she knows about that other woman from the shop who swindled my mom,and i would think that if she refuses to talk, that can be considered as obstruction of justice, right....geting the bank checks to see if the signatures are legit......
Can you get info on the trust acct name and go tht route make a theft report or tell them she never took money tht someone stole her id info or acct info
Wow, I read this entire thread. It seemed like upper middle class gives advice to someone who speaks English as a second language.
The police DID investigate the case but got no substantial evidence. It’s odd the police didn’t look at the banks security tapes...also police investigation goes SLOW, they do have many cases they’re working on.
I think I'm done.
Consider the fact there may be a situation already going on that we don't know about. The person's device may have gone down or they may have lost access to their account, this can happen. Another thing to consider is the possibility that person may already be doing something and it's in the process right now. We just don't know the whole picture of what's really going on. For all we know, the person may have already read the replies and may have started out and gone right to work on resolving the problem.
Hopefully the person didn't do something and get into legal trouble and get caught up in jail or even prison. It's very angry thing to have our loved ones taken advantage of, this can leave us tempted to cross the line and take matters into our own hands. This would keep someone from following up with a thread in a heartbeat. I only hope the person didn't do anything illegal and get in trouble because the person's elder really needs them.
Earlier in the thread, I noticed you said your mom doesn't want you to take her to a doctor and go with her, and she won't give you the names of her doctors either. You mentioned that it sounds like something's wrong there, and you're probably right. It sounds to me like there may be something about her medical records that she's actually hiding, possibly that she's secretly declining and may be developing dementia or Alzheimer's and she's too ashamed of what's going on to reach out for help. My foster dad was very secretive, he would never talk much about his doctor visits, that's his right to confidentiality. However, sometimes this can be detrimental because when the person becomes too vulnerable physically and mentally, they become easy prey for vultures. I think your mom might be afraid of what may become of her if her secret leaks out, and I don't blame her for being afraid because too many times people who take over their affairs end up taking advantage of them and instead of helping the person, they help themselves to whatever they want. This is probably the number one reason why elderly try so hard to defend themselves in any way they know how, and one of them is secrecy. One thing to ask is are you sure someone inside the doctor's office isn't somehow in on this scam? Maybe the former coworker works there? This is something that crossed my mind and I felt I should ask. Another thing to reconsider as patient confidentiality. DPOA gives you the power to make medical decisions if she becomes incapacitated to the point of inability to make her own medical decisions.
The DA told you to look at her prescription bottles, but why? Are there some meds that can alter her judgment?
Withdrawing money in the thousands is a huge red flag, even with drawing in the hundreds is a big enough red flag, but definitely in the thousands is an obvious red flag something's going on and someone is taking advantage of her and helping themselves and it sounds to me like someone may be threatening your mom just from the description of things. You mentioned a woman who happens to be a former coworker. Have you gone to that place where they work together to see if this person may have been fired for something? It may be this person worked with money? Maybe the person stole from the company? This is just a thought. Conservatorship really sounds like a winner according to the lawyer you spoke with, this may very well be the way to go in this case. However, if you both are living in separate states, I would ask that lawyer how that would work. Learn the laws of both states and go from there. Yes, just from your description, it sounds like it's time for guardianship.
Yes, the DA's office is different than the adult protective services.
You have a joint account? Yes, you can definitely pull up the records on that account whether you realize it or not. From your description of writing a check to turn into cash especially if it was large amounts in the thousands, this is definitely a red flag. It sounds to me like maybe the scammer wanted her to give them cash. If the scammer deposited the cash, yes, there would likely be some kind of record somewhere as long as the cash was actually deposited somewhere. Another possibility is if the scammer closed their account and kept the cash or maybe send it overseas somewhere, or maybe they had the cash somewhere. There's another possibility of opening multiple accounts at multiple banks and spreading the cash out between accounts making it harder to find. Valid point about her coming in alone, another valid point about cameras outside the lobby. However, remember that video surveillance usually doesn't store back very long, be prepared to find this out for yourself. If it does go back very far, try to get a hold of it or find out where it's stored even if you have to subpoena that record. Definitely get a hold of those records even if the scammer happened to be waiting in their car in the parking lot or maybe somewhere off the premises if the camera covers that far out
I'm thinking someone your mom is contacting is most likely someone within her contacts who is probably scamming her. She may not even realize she's being scammed and she's protecting whoever this is and she probably thinks it's a business matter. Anyone doing business transactions protects clientele, and she may be confusing legit business with scamming. This would be causing her to protect the wrong people, which means she would be doing business with the wrong kind of people. Whoever this is is probably not contributing to her bank account or her well-being and is therefore not entitled to your mom's money or assets. You're right to feel that something wrong is probably occurring, which is exactly why she won't tell you who she talks to through her cell phone. It's good that you have her ss number and were able to get access to her cell account. I was helping my foster dad with a phone situatio
You mentioned a former POA over your mom. Perhaps a little legal action I'll get all that money back where it belongs since there is a record somewhere of this person handling her money. Yes, even abusive people have gained access to other people's accounts and maybe whoever is scamming your mom is also abusive just from the sound of this. Yes, the DA will close a case if proof lacks. As mentioned here, yes, the money may be gone and all too often people lose hope of ever making thieves repay what they stole but it does happen. I also agree with forming a closer relationship with your mom while at the same time looking out for her well-being, part of that well-being may very well involve getting as much of that money back as possible so that she'll have it for her care. If she's applying for Medicaid, you'll definitely want to find a local branch and speak to them in person about what you described here. Take all the records you possibly can if she's applying for Medicaid. I'm glad you were able to put all of her remaining assets into a trust and be her trustee. What I would recommend is closing out the old account and moving all of her money to a new one. Deactivate all of her cards and set up auto online bill pay for all of the bills so no one will have to worry about any running around because the bank will do all of the work for you. When this is all over, deactivate her cell phone and get her a new one or you can change her number. Clean out her contacts, clear the call logs, text records, etc. The best thing would probably be to reset the phone if you plan to keep it, but it may be better just to give her a new phone. Check her off-line address book and give her a new one after putting in trusted contacts. Those trusted contacts should also be the only ones in her new phone. Work with the provider to activate call forwarding to you. If it's a trusted contact, you can forward the call to her. In other words, be her call filter
So thank you all for your encouragements/suggestions.I feel better today because of your help.Oh.I also want to have an appointment with the texas attorney general concerning my mom's catastrophy.
know, life can be short.
Check with a good elder affairs lawyer in her location asap!
The police DID investigate the case but got no substantial evidence. It’s odd the police didn’t look at the banks security tapes...also police investigation goes SLOW, they do have many cases they’re working on.
This case is closed for me.