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My mother and my husband both see the same geriatric specialist. Oh my! What a huge difference their training and their attitude makes. A geriatrician does not expect to cure every patient and does not lose interest in treating people who will never be cured. They are focussed on quality of life, on dignity, on respecting the elder's experiences.

The reactions to drugs of older people is different than that of a younger person. Our geriatrician is very aware of that, and she also is very careful about drug interactions. A pediatrician has to know how children's bodies are different than adults. A geriatrician is very aware of how our bodies change as we age.

I'm sure not all geriatricians are created equal, just as there are average and exceptional internists. But, yes, I highly recommend that elders have a geriatrician as their primary doctor. As primary care provider, her or she may also refer to other specialists. For example, if the hallucinations might be the beginning of dementia you might be referred to a geriatric psychiatrist or a behavior neurologist who specializes in dementia treatment.

About the hallucinations. One common cause is a uti. Did the doctor check for that?

I don't mean to scare you, but hallucinations are often one of the earliest symptoms of the disease my husband has -- lewy body dementia. I just mention this because I think that sending a patient home with a sedative may be a useful first step, the help the patient at least get some sleep. But I don't think that should necessarily be the end of the matter. Realize that I have NO medical credentials. But if your gut tells you that you want a second opinion, go for it!
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Thanks so much Jeanne! I agree with everything you've said. I am going to check out a geriatric specialist on Monday for my Mom. I also agree that the sedative thing worked great to get her to relax and sleep, however, that is not the answer. Yes, the dr. ruled out a uti at this point. The blood test revealed the kidney function issue, but from what the tests show, this would not have caused the hallucinations. Don't worry about scaring me....I'm just glad to be getting the information and experiences on this site to help guide me through this process. It's not easy and I'm scared too....that I may not get her the help she needs, or, that I may be contributing somehow in making her condition worse. Hugs to you!
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Hi KJSpradin,

I would definitely encourage you to see a Geriatic specialist. The Geriatic doctor is better educated regarding aging and all of its ramifications. A few days after I became my mother's POA I changed my mother's primary physician to a Geriatic doctor. Unfortunately, the doctor's PA prescribed a higher dosage of her medication without consulting me while my mother was at her AL which might've caused her to be dizzy because she fell three times in two weeks, the last fall resulting in a broken back. So be careful that you ask questions of the Geriatic doctor before you change, and put it in writing that if they want to increase a dosage of your mother's medication to consult with YOU first, especially if you are responsible for her healthcare. Now we have a new doctor and my mother is in a SN. He only works at Conv./Rehabs. He took my mother completely off of two medications and decreased the dosage of another. She is more alert and more content now that she is at the NH, as the staff encourages mom to she eat regular meals, and drink more fluids. The NH has taken her completely off of caffeine and they monitor her sweets. They took her foot rests off of her wheelchair so she needs to use her feet and hands/arms when she moves about in the NH. We could not be happier. I'm so sorry your mother has been enduring hallucinations and hope you can get that resolved soon. Our Geriatic Doctor came highly recommended from someone in our church--hopefully you can find the same SOONER than later. Please keep us updated.
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Thank you Hopeful, I found a geriatric practice right down the street from my house and I'm going to see them tomorrow....to check them out! :) I do appreciate the support because it's not always easy to know what to do. Hugs to you!
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Way to go Jeanne! The practice of Geriatrics is often overlooked in the United States....not so in Sweden and Finland.
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Hi KJ, I'm so glad you are going. Hopefully the Doctor will be able to give a mini mental and find out how your mother is doing cognitively. My mother passed her mini mental when we made her morning appt. but did not do so well when they re-tested her in the afternoon as she experiences sundowning after lunch.

Please keep us updated!
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My dad has Parkinson's disease and weighs 145 lb and is 83 yrs old. He gets me up all through the night to go to the bathroom because he can barely walk and stand. Sometimes it is every hour and some every 2. I lost my job. I am tired all the time. Have him on water pills along with bladder spasm medicine because he retains water in his legs. If give him sleep aid, pees all over himself and bed. He has bad nerves and tosses and turns. No catherization, pulls out. Have Hospice 5 days a week. Dr says nothing else to do. Any suggestions? Also taking care of mom with stage 7 Alzheimer's.
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All of what you are feeling is normal; hey i know it does not feel normal...I KNOW...But try....vent to us....But make sure no matter if y'all argue or not? Tell her you love her......I DID AND SHE PASSED AWAY NO WARNINGS....SO PLEASE I KNOW IT DOES NOT FEEL NORMAL.....IT IS....I FOUND TELLING MY MOM, LOOK IT IS NOT YOU I AM ANGRY AT IT IS YOUR PROBLEM HELPED A LOT. THAT SEEMED TO GET THRU, NOT SURE WHY, IT DID.....I AM HERE IF YOU NEED ME......JUST KNOW ARMS ARE OUT TO HUG YOU ALL OVER THE WORLD........BUT WHAT IF SHE WAS NOT THERE TO GET ANGRY WITH.........Sharon
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I get up every morning looking for her still.....it has still only been a week...But I find myself looking for her...GET Some one in there so you can start getting out....Have a sitter come so you can sleep......Anything, just do not feel guilty.......NOT YOUR FAULT................ SHARON ALONE AGAIN NATURALLY....
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mrnitrog: First, get a bedside commode. Medicare will pay for it with dr.'s prescription, and place it right next to his bed (close). He can literally rollover on to it and go potty. The sides of the commode act like a walker for support. Clean out the potty in the morning, after you change his overnight diaper..Kroger sells them for about $9.99 for a set of 12-16.
Pls. review the need for the "water pill"...I assume it's Lasix. Generic: Ferosemide. Perhaps the dosage can be reduced or eliminated altogether.....new studies on this just recenty in JAMA and The Mayo Clinic Newsletter....If he takes Norvasc or some other BP pill, it may cause water retention in the lower legs....no cause for alarm if this is the case.
No Foley Catheter....it's only for the convenience of the caregiver....glad that he pulled it out. Ouch.
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What have you got against the convenience of the caregiver? :) I would say that for many patients, remaining dry is a nice benefit.

When I've had a catheter in the hospital I had no problems with it. (Of course, I understood what it is for, not something all dementia patients could do.)

The first time I was pregnant my neighbor, mother of 7, told me that after each birth the nurses wanted her to get up and walk, "or else we'll have to use a catheter." Well, she told me, after the seventh birth she was a little weak and instead of urging her to walk, they put in a catheter. She said, "If I'd have known that that is all there was to it, I would have stayed in bed an extra day all 7 times!"

Obviously it is not a solution for all situations, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand just because it is a convenience for the caregiver. Depends are a convenience to the caregiver. So what?
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mrnitrog, I'm trying to figure out the peeing all night thing too and I got some great ideas and suggestions throughout this dialog that may help you and your Dad. What I can tell you is that you getting angry and feeling guilty and upset is why I wrote my original question out to this site. I finally reached out to my family for help because things got so much worse with just me trying to handle it. You are not weak and you are not alone. Do whatever you need to do to get some help!!!!! Then the time that you do spend with your parents you will be able to help them even better. I know this because I just went through it last week. After a couple of nights of good sleep, I'm a completely different caregiver for my wonderful Mom. I'm so lucky to have a very caring and cool brother that would have come and helped out much sooner had I just asked. Having no sleep does terrible things and you must not let it go on any longer. Please, please get some help so that you can get some sleep!!!!!
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Jeanne, Not only did you know what the catheter was for, but you knew that it was also TEMPORARY.
It's a known fact that the catheter can cause a UTI, but more importantly, it enables the pt to rely on it without controlling his/her muscles, or awareness.
In the case of a 94 year old, however, I would guess that any help would be a good thing. I am still in favor of the Overnight Diapers....their absorbancy rate is 99%. No need to get up during the night with them on .
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One of the things we've just tried the last couple of days, so I'm not sure that it will work long term, is wearing 'overnight underwear that has a pad built right in'. (even with the dementia alot of things get through) I think that it has made her just a little less stressed about getting up at night because she 'knows' that she will not pee in her bed. Last night we only got up 3 times!!!
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Oh, and she has been totally dry every time we do get up. I'm hoping that this keeps up!! Again, we all have to have sleep. It took me way longer than necessary to figure that out and it was a very painful lesson for me and my Mom. Sleep, blessed sleep, I wish it every day for everyone!! Hugs coming out to all of you, even if you are sleeping!! :)
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Hi KJ, My mother is 96 and has the same issues. What I have found is that the PH of the food she eats has a huge effect on her urination frequency both day and night. Also the urge to urinate is aggravated by a ph that is out of neutral range. Tough to regulate but minding her diet would be better than drugs. She has been at home with me after a broken hip in 1995 and nearly fully functional. We have both had mothers who beat the odds. Congrats. I also let my mother have her own room but tie her loosley to the bed with a gate belt across the covers so she has to call for my help to get up. This keeps the false alarms to a minimum and lets me sleep hard until I hear that call for help...good luck.karen
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Hi KM, I found the info. about the PH of the food to be interesting. How do you determine the PH, and what kinds of foods do you recommend to keep the PH even throughout the day? I seem to have more difficulties with yeast infections-- esp the past year. My mother also used to be troubled with them. I'm trying to exercise and cut out alot of sugar. Do you recommend a certain book to obtain the info? Thanks!
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You can get test strips cheaply at the pharmacy to test ph. in urine. I would also recommend taking cranberry caps for the uti and yeast along with probiotics. I have been trying a diet called "the diet solution" by Isabel de los Rios. on line. Not hard at all and my chemistry is really changing for the better. You have to do tests with your own body chemistry to determine which foods work for you. Takes some time but really worth it. Isabel recommends not eating the following both for weight loss and health in general...wheat, soy, sugar and dairy. Start reading some labels...it is tough to cut all that out with out revamping your whole eating plan. good luck.k
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Thanks for the information Karen. I'll definitely explore the PH diet idea. I agree that the best thing is to limit the drugs whenever possible. Mom has lost her appetite over the last couple of weeks, so we need to do something different anyway......maybe this will give us the jump start that we need. I'm so glad that you have your Mom with you and that she's doing so well. Did you buy a 'gate belt' or is this something that you made yourself? Right now I'm using an 'magnetic alarm' that will go off if she tries to get up. I usually hear her though since we are in the same room, so it never goes off. And, we are still both getting up and so tired. Acutally, since I've been using the night time depends and leaving the TV on all night, she's been sleeping for 4 to 5 hours at a time. Whew.....at least we're getting more sleep than before!! Thanks again, KJ Hugs to you and your Mom!!
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My mom loses weight easily also. I started putting ensure in her coffee. If I can get a whole bottle in each day it keeps her stable at her weight. I also give her a lot of fruit and yogurt almost every day. I feel your exhaustion this week since she has been sick and my caregivers are on vacation. Never easy Hugs to you and your mom.
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Funny, I'm doing the ensure thing and yogurts too. I tried the activia ones, but she only likes the ones that have the name 'pie' in it....like 'lemon cream pie', so I guess that's better than nothing!! :) Even those aren't dong the trick this week. You just never know. I feel like I'm being challenged to be more patient and more flexible everyday......maybe that's a good thing!! Sorry to hear that you're having a hard week. Take care and think positive!! Hugs!!
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hi kj, sounds like we are on parallel life tracks at the moment. Funny the quirky things that never existed at a younger age. PIE??? My cousins mother liked to key cars..now that is crazy. Any way I forgot to mention that I just use a thin belt that causes a little frustration getting up and makes her response loud enough to wake me up. I treasure that hard sleep in between and knowing that she will get frustrated with the tie down and make enough noise to get me up helps me relax.
it is not like a straight jacket:). hugs to you
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LOL.....sometimes I'm the one that needs the straight jacket. :)
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Hi:
I can relate much to your desire for a good night's sleep, and appreciate your sincere efforts to be of assistance to your mother. My husband needs lot of assistance,as he has progressive supranuclear palsy, lot similar to Parkinsons, but rarer, poor balance, stiffness, affects with speech and throat/eating, and needs assist up from chair or bed, and has urinary frequency/bladder problem that keeps him up several times each night, so I am up with him most of those times to ensure his balance is ok, and assist. Lack of sleep is very detrimental to anyones health. As I know the road ahead is a long one, I have decided to just find ways during the day to get more rest, and I could tell in recent months that my own health was suffering, so I have made it a priority to find ways to get exercise and rest during the day. And when bedtime comes I try to relax as much as possible and make it easier for myself to go to sleep. I read that we do not necessarily need to get a full 8-9 hrs sleep in a row, all at one time, as it stated that if we at least get 1 1/2 hrs (90 min) at a time, that is good, gives us time to get in most of the cycles involved with good sleep. So I try not worry so much about it. Also, I make it a point to be honest with my husband and let him know when I really need some rest or space, (uninterrupted time and space). We all have to remember that when being a caregiver, we need to ensure time for patient, and time for the caregiver....Seems to me you have all the expected and natural feelings and concerns that come with caregiving. Sounds pretty normal to me. What we have to remember is to do things and find solutions which will help us also. I had even considered hiring a private duty person to just sit with my husband thru the night so i could get some sleep, but getting a bit of rest during the day, having decent/cofortable place to sleep (I have twin bed beside hubby's hospital bed), and making the awkenings for bathroom for the hubby as short a time as possible, so we both get right back to bed, seems to be working ok for me. Will your mother use a portable potty beside bed, which could shorten length of time for getting up at night?
We utillize a urinal bottle beside the bed , and hubby stands beside bed when has to. Because his focus, and balance not always good, i assist him with that, but try to make the time we are up as brief as possible. God bless you, and above all, take time for yourself.......You are not alone, and we others do understand,and hope that you can find some simple things to make it easier for you and your mom.
The general's wife (general is nickname for my hubby)
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Hi G's W,
Thanks so much for sharing. The two things that seemed to have worked for us so far is wearing 'nighttime undies' (depends) and leaving the TV on for background noise. I explain each night to Mom that wearing the nightime undies with a pad build right in, are just in case we can't get up fast enough. She seems fine with that and has never had an 'accident. She is sleeping up to 4 and 5 hours now at a time. Yeah! The bathroom is right outside our room (I too have a twin bed in the same room as my Mom's hosptial bed) so getting up and back to bed takes only about 3 minutes. Both of us are getting pretty good at going back to sleep quickly too. As long as the TV is on, there are less questions/discussions about the 'ice dropping into the freezer container', the air conditioner/furnance coming on and off, etc. I also have a wonderful brother that is coming over at least 2 nights a week to spend with Mom so I can sleep in my own bed. (he's the best!!) The kidney specialist that we were referred to said that she doesn't think Mom's kidneys are causing the issues, and, I'm still in the process of looking for a geriatric specialist to help us. Thanks again for the message and best wished and HUGS to both you and the General. KJ
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KJ -- I feel like I can do anything when I have a good night's sleep. However, deprive me of a few hours and I become a completely different person.

Here is what I did and after about 4 weeks I think I have finally got a starting point this week.

My wife did not have the problem as bad as you but there were many times I would have to get up in the middle of the night to change the sheets because she had soaked through her Depends. I took her to a urologist and he prescribed some medicine that did not work.
Somebody told me when the drank milk, the milk would go right through them. So I eliminated milk from her diet and there was a tremendous improvement but I still was having nights and even days when she would be soaked through in a matter of hours so I asked our GP about it. She sent me to an allergist because I believed at the time it was the food that was causing the problem.
The allergist helped me set up a list of what was being eaten every day and we used a scale from 0 to 5 as to how the incontinence was during the period. The problem was that the food might take 12 or more hours to react.
As I eliminated different foods she got better but I never completely got it where she was dry for any length of time. I figured if I just had one garbage sack full of wet depends for the week, that was good.
I have been giving her oatmeal/quinoa for breakfast for quite a few months now. I added soy butter and about a teaspoonful of honey each morning because I am trying to get her as many calories as possible. A couple weeks ago I added the soy butter and honey to a sweet potato I had fixed her for supper. Lo and behold, she had an unusually bad night so I had the brilliant thought that maybe it was the honey. I switched to putting coconut milk on her cereal in the morning and for the first time in years she was dry for about 3 days straight, then she had about 3 days she was soaked. Monday of this week, it dawned on me that I was still using the soy butter so I eliminated that and for most of this week she has been relatively dry, maybe using at the most 2 depends a day. This morning I incorporated a spoon of honey into her cereal and had to change her 3 times in 2 hours. That was about 7 hours ago and she has been good since then.

Just figuring out this one little thing makes me feel like a genius. I have had people tell me that maybe I had taken her as far as I could but I believed it was the food doing it.

I mentioned earlier the milk was the first thing I eliminated. Then I started eliminating processed foods, like bleached flour, artificial coloring in food, etc. Some times I would eliminate things and try them later to see if they still worked.

It would have been nice to have somebody like a dietician to help me out but I have no idea how to go about getting one. I probably could have gotten there much quicker with a little guidance, just did not know what I was looking for, just a feeling it was the food doing it.
One thing I did find was things like cranberries, thyme, etc that are supposed to be good for the kidneys, exacerbated the problem instead of helping it. I do not know if it might work for you, but I would discuss it with your doctor and see what direction she/he can lead you in. Fortunately, my wife's doctor is very into nutrition so was able to help us quite a bit.
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Hi bob1942,
I so appreciate your message. It's been so nice to hear what others are trying and what's working and what isn't. I have thought about diet and how it may be impacting Mom. I haven't done nearly the extensive exploration that it sounds like you've been doing, but I have started her eating 'activia' yogurts to keep her more regular and that seems to be helping some. I have a question, probably a dumb one, but do you use the 'maximum' strength depends? The reason I'm asking is because I really hadn't paid attention, and didn't realize that they came in different levels of absorbency? Just a thought. I think it's great what you are doing for your wife. Unless someone has been in this type of situation, they don't understand that you'll be looking for new and better things to help all the time because we just 'know' that it can be better for them. I know what you mean about feeling like a 'genius'. I'm sure not one, but I've learned alot through this process with my Mom and will not just accept that 'this is the way it will be'. There are different things that will work for different people and this website and all of the supportive messages that I've received from my one simple question are proof of that. Hugs to you and your wife!! Hope you have a dry as can be night. KJ
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Hi KJ, I just read bobs answer and totally relate. I started a diet recently that eliminates soy, sugar, dairy, wheat and corn. Coconut oil and milk are miraculous as well. Seems a little extreme but started eating less processed food and more fresh food. My system has really reacted in a positive way to these changes (no I am not incontinent haha) Keep looking for your answer. My week from hell is finally lightening up after I had about 10 professionals in here that have spoken to the doctor and now she is listening. Getting old and losing dignity is sooooo tough for them and us...
hugs.
karen
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Hi Karenmeek,
Ok so what do you eat???? I'm thinking I have to have my 200 calorie Digorno Pizza and WWatchers mac & cheese. :) Seriously, what do you eat? I'm game for trying to eat healthier, but I don't really cook and it has to be easy....really easy. I"m glad you are having a better end to your week and hope it takes you into the next. You said it much better than me; I say getting old sucks, espeically for them. Hugs to you. KJ
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It just plain sucks...that is for sure. If you really want to see what I am doing with this diet check out "The Diet Solution". Isabel de los Rios has put together a whole program..it is hard to get into cooking all the time but the results are worth it. GO TO BED!!! hugs...k
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