Daughters of narcissistic mothers. What are the effects?

Thank you Caregivingnyc and DDuck for your messages. Having this forum gives me strength. Yes, I mourn the childhood I never had and I grieve the mother and sister that I will never have but I thing I am a good mom and that gives me strength. I will no longer take the abuse and bullying from that and they know it. They are cowards and have backed down but the meanness stings. They would not treat there worst enemy like that and all I have done is be myself. Yes, I guess it is jealousy. Remember "When someone is cruel or acts like a bully, you don't stoop to their level. No, our motto is, when they go low, we go high"~Michelle Obama

Our mothers attitude toward us has effected each of us four sisters in different ways. One became a social worker and is pretty calm and caring. She does carry quite a bit of excess body weight. The other three of us have varying degrees of low self esteem and tendency to try to please others too much, especially our Mom. We all take varying dosages of anti depressants and three have varying degrees of anxiety.

Continuing from four sisters. Our brother is quite the natcissist, a bully who criticizes and tries to intimidate others Especially his sisters.

Good topic, except for me it is the other way around. My daughter has narcissistic personality disorder. She thinks the world revolves around her. She thinks she is entitled to all that's good.

Brandy did you spoil your daughter? I mean rotten. My experience with the narcs in my immediate family is that they are spoiled rotten. My mother was, I heard strories about how her grandmother spoiled her, then she married my father and she never had to do anything especially after I got old enough to to laundry and dishes which started out fun for me. My sister was spoiled rotten by my parents. If she didnt want to wash dishes walk the dog, whatever gues who did it me. If I was on a bike and she wanted to ride guess who got off the bike. My father used to hit the dresser if she was supposed to be getting that rare beating. Imageine the kind of power that gives a child in their poor little head. Same with my aunt my mother's baby sister. The middle aunt who is deceased is the one who did the cleaning cooking washing and so forth. They dont learn to think of anyone else and feel entitled. Its all about them and what they want, Guess what they all get along too. Just one observation amongst many. I wish there was a written code or something to just keep them in check.. or something you could sprinkle on them.

I just had an interesting thought (since I've read that narcissists don't know what they are doing). I wonder if anyone on this site would admit to having narcissistic tendencies and if so, if they personally could shed some light on how it feels to be a narcissist (I know this is a long shot) and how it feels to 'hurt' people.

In my family it is the golden child that turned into a narcissist and spoiled her daughter rotten thus creating another narcissist. I think everybody has narcissistic tendencies but I think it is the lack of empathy that really defines it.

Dang, Heart, I would like to believe that they dont know what they are doing. But I beleive that somewhere inside those pretty little head there is an inkling of an idea of what they are doing and their motives. I think they just cant stand to look at themselves so they project ugly on their victim and that justifies their ugly evil. It is amazing and frustrating when I look at my mother. I often think she is possessed because she will act as if I am the biggest liar when I bring up her deeds. The same MOA I have seem from a child. I am sure she knows what she was doing. Hell once we were walking shopping when I was about 6 or7. She is a fast walker so we all walk fast now. So we are speeding down street and she just slapped me. I had no idea why. Maybe I have it too and said or did something??? Only thing i dont get a lot of stories about some ugliness I did. So I think subconsciously they know exactly what they are doing. I wouldnt want to see my self either if I constantly did .,/, that my mother does and do. Thats why I get so riled up when she does her thing because its a viscious circle. You do any nasty evil thing you want to me and write (right) it off by making me the biggest lying craziest fool in the world. So I think I would go crazy or would be crazy if I figured it out. My code name was dumb dora.

It's so interesting hearing the different perspectives of narcissistic 'knowing' behavior. When you're enmeshed in it (and, they hide it all so well from others)... It's a very hurtful thing to go through by yourself... I so,often wonder if my mother and brother get some sadistic gratification out of it... Or, it's some kind of counterbalance to their subconscious maladies... I just can't fathom living inside a narcissists mind to do this to people, especially those close to them... And, generally, the ones that care and love them the most (because, they know/think they can get 'away' with it). Perhaps narcissism should be treated as a disease. I feel badly for those of us that have had to deal with it...

DDDuck, I read what you wrote and thought about gaslighting. It is my mother's main thing. I've gone through gaslighting since I was a child. It makes you feel crazy, because what you know is right is said to be a lie. I personally think it is one of the most damaging forms of child and adult abuse because it is done to frustrate and make them doubt their own perceptions. It's a very good way to do anything you want, then deny it ever happened.

DDDuck, There is no reason why you were slapped. It was not you.
Serious abuse happens to children, even in public. It breaks my heart to see this happen, but I am sure it was not you, because children should not be treated this way. So sorry this happened to you.
You may need to be held and hugged way into your own old age to get over it.
Sending hugs, so many hugs. Cyber hugs.

My mother and my golden younger sister have acted like mean girls bullies to me since sis was a kid. Complaining about me (and me getting slammed from both sides), ostracism, smear campaign, scapegoating, etc. My mother has lied to me about family occasions to make sure I wasn't there, because my sister didn't want me there. (What kind of a parent lets one child cut another child out of the family?) Yet she would scream at me, for days, to do things for my sister (when both of us were adults, we weren't kids.) My mother has referred to my sister as "her daughter" when she talks to me. (What does that make me? Oh yeah the hired help.) Sis is still doing the "I'm telling mom" thing. She's in her 40s, mom is in her 80s, aren't we too old for this? (I think sis is also a narc, and an alcoholic. Mom's an enabler.) Now they expect me to be the one to take care of mom. They treat me like an employee. They have a lot of nerve, considering the decades of bad treatment. But I guess they think they can continue to treat me the way they always have and I'm not supposed to object. It's like having someone hang onto you with one hand and punching you with the other.

I've had a lifetime of my mother's chronic lying, manipulation, gaslighting, passive aggressive, mind games and throwing me under the bus. And literally breathing down my neck. (I had somewhat of a break since I got married and we lived over an hour from her. But now, she's moved near us. Big mistake.) Her favorites lines are: I never said that/that never happened. But I'm the only one she expects to help her. (I have three siblings)

When I was growing up, she was verbally and physically abusive. (which she denied) The beating she gave me when I was 13 was so bad I had a nervous breakdown and I ended up with severe depression, panic disorder, agoraphobia, IBS. I've been struggling with these things throughout my life. Now that I'm expected to help her, spend a lot of time with her and she's moved near me, and the bad treatment I've been getting from my siblings, those problems have kicked in again.

Telling my mother no, stop, and leave me alone didn't work when I was growing up, and it doesn't work now. She won't take no for an answer. Tunes me out. She'll hound me about the same damn thing for weeks. I think I have PTSD from her phone calls and messages. Funny, when I told her that what she was expecting of me was too much, she bit my head off: "Well, you could've said no!" (thereby throwing it back on me, it's my problem) But I have said no to her, many times.

I'll stop here. There's so much more.
I've been reading through the old posts -- hugs to all of you.

Oh yes Jessie Belle. I think its a form of slavery you get mentally whipped into place and Heart it is so amazing how they can hide it so well. I get this from my mother and sister. And when they forget to put a cover on it they acutally look ridiculous. I just dont understand why Im just seeing it for what it was before now. I got used real good by them both. Would give and gave my all to keep them happy. Now I feel stupid. I trust my own judgement and then I dont. Thats why I have to stay in prayer and just try and focous on my health and my own life what's left of it and let them have at it.

One thing with my mother is I know she is not mentally well. There is so much going on with her that I have walls up all around me. I look at her and wonder how she could do the things she does and think it's alright. Then I realize that she doesn't see anything outside herself, so that whatever it takes to gratify herself is right.

Today after we got home from church she said that she and I ought to go down to Florida. She'd love to just sit on the balcony and watch the waves rolling in. Hmm... you want me to drive 6-8 hours to the beach -- no wait, longer, since we'd have to stop every few minutes for 20-min bathroom trips -- so you can watch waves roll in. I didn't say that, but I told her she would have to get my brother to take her. It was the last thing in the world I wanted to do.

I can't even talk her into going into the front yard. The beach trip sounded like a lot of work for me for no good reason. The trip would be awful. I can't give anymore. She'll have to ask one of my brothers -- something she won't do.

Ditto here Jessie... It breaks my heart sometimes to say "No... Can't do it any more... ask your sons to come and take you..." (without feeling the guilt attached)... But, the bottom line is... We're not miracle workers and the 'sons, etc. are their children also... As we get older and realism sets in... you just have to say "No". We're not responsible for,their happiness.

Nothing positive has come from my demanding self absorbed mum. Except maybe the fact that I dont want her in my life while she is like this. She has grand memeories of being a wonderful mum, my memories however are entirely different, financially she fed and dressed us but the rest was all negative, reared in a abusive home, molested and beaten and she says she knew nothing of it. She is NEVER WRONG spends money like its free flowing, and accuses us of taking it from her, my brother and I have provided homes for her for the past 20 years and she thinks she deserves it. The result on me personally is I wish I coild kill myself to get away from her. Until I read this column I never thought anyone else had this problem. Thank goodness I can vent. Thanks for listening

Pheonix3 I am so sorry for you my situation is very similar. I played dead one time during a beating. I think it is horrible and you had more than one sibling it seems like one of them should have seen through the bs but then again you were all children. I just think it is so sad and Iam glad you were able to find some reprieve in a marriage. If you had abreak down from her tactics as a child I would dtread litely and think hard before I ended up as a main care giver. Let one of the favorites or one who was treated well take on that responsibily. I think carefully about taking that on. I know its hard you have the guilt in your heart because that what they implant to keep us in check. I just know you have to draw the line for yourself somewhere. Maybe you all can arrange for care in a facility. I have not got to that point as of yet. So far my experience is learning how to cope with the effects of this narcisstic abuse. I am not comfortable with giving advice but I would defintely look into getting outside care. This caregiving role is very taxing and stressful and like I have said you have the love but you can stop having flashbacks of the pain when you see the same behavior repeated and with the dementia its kind of the raw version because they forget to how to cover it sometimes. I feel for you.

linnieg, I think it is really common for some older people to remember only idealized versions of themselves. It's like they have bluebirds and butterflies fluttering all around them. Their families were perfect. Their marriage was perfect. Everything was perfect. Sometimes they have to forget lots of things and make up other things to fill in. I don't really think it is intentional. They just choose to block the ugly out. And the ugly they can't block out was someone else's fault, not theirs.

You can probably tell that I live with a bluebirds and butterflies mother. Strange thing is that she sits in pajamas all day watching TV. Her space around her is such a wreck that I gave up cleaning it. I read in a book somewhere that it is good to confront parents with bad feelings from wrongs of the past. When they are older I don't think there is any point to that. Maybe a letter that can be written and destroyed would be good. I've never done that, because it really isn't my personality to journal and write letters to be destroyed.

I just realized that it helps me most writing like this to people going through the same thing. Kind of like each of us helping each other work through bad feelings, instead of writing a letter that is to be destroyed.

In retrospect, one of the worst things I could have done was to include my mom in activities with my friends. She quickly made herself the caring confidant to them, getting invited to all manner of events, including weddings. If she didn't have her own circle to in the center of, she was going to be the center of mine. When I began setting boundaries, she switched it up by using the sweet little old lady with a bossy daughter persona. At one point, she had convinced my friend of all manner of problems at AL, to the point where my friend was about to contact the state. As few of them know "the rest of the story", their perception of me has been altered, and the relationships affected. Just last week, I ran into an old friend and her first words were to ask about my mother. Wish I could just say "fine, still throwing me under the bus."

Linda22,
In retrospect, I now understand why it was not a good idea to introduce friends to friends, or to include family with friends if conimg from a dysfunctional family.
Oh, I see. Maybe not for everyone. Maybe not all the time. Thinking on this.

Yep... Your whole life changes... Only a caregiver (of a disfuntional/narcissist family) could ever understand what we have been through... ;~/

Thanks DDDuck. I can relate to your experiences.
I don't know why the favored child ends up not being the one to take care of the parent and spending time with them. They're supposedly so close.
My mother lives in a retirement community, she's not at the AL point. She hasn't been evaluated for dementia, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was there.

This is going to sound horrible, but I had no idea my alcoholic anorexic narc mother would still be alive almost two years after breaking her hip and having surgery. We hadn't spoken for years after her last hostile drunken phone call, and all of a sudden she was in the hospital, diagnosed with dementia on top of everything else, and I was in charge of her health care decisions. I thought I would just have to deal with her for a few months, because she was so uncooperative with any physical therapy and never did regain the ability to walk. She also refuses to eat regularly. I thought I had done so well healing from years of narcissistic abuse, but I was wrong. Even just attending her care meetings at the nursing home I found for her in my neighborhood and visiting her once or twice a month has seriously messed with me. My self-esteem has taken a massive beating. She can't interact with me without making snide digs about me. The nurses probably think that these attacks are just the effect of her dementia, but she has always been this way. She thinks I'm morbidly obese (I'm a size 12), and last summer repeatedly told me that I looked pregnant in whatever I was wearing. She even criticized my toenail polish as being "awful." I don't know what the moral minimum is as far as communicating with her. It takes days to recover from her nastiness.

Totally understand Narcsurvivor... It's so difficult hearing these kinds if comments from your mother!!!... Just remember you're not alone... I've heard these criticisms all my life also...

narc - it does not sound horrible to me. She sounds horrible to me. A number of us here have a narcissistic parent and we understand. Since having contact with your mother/her facility is causing you such emotional pain, you need to do whatever you have to in order to protect yourself. I don't think there is any moral minimum. I have a narc sister as well and have gone very low contact - a few times a year at most. I visit mother in her facility a few times a year for very short periods of time and even then it causes me stress. I deal with her finances and her medical and personal decisions, and with visiting her a few times a year that is all I can handle. The "fall out", as you experience, is too damaging to me. For me it is all about self protection and seeing that her needs are met. When mother was well and in an apartment and I visited, as soon as she got nasty I left. It didn't change her, but was easier on me. I don't think that we ever fully recover from the damage caused in our childhoods and adult lives. Blessings to you -do what is good for you. You do not owe her your sanity - just that she is properly cared for if you choose to do that. (((((((hugs)))))

heart - hope you are doing good things for you. I can't imagine living with a narcissist. It must be awful. ((((((hugs))))) to you too.

Oh Lord, JessieBelle, is that what that awful behavior is called? Gaslighting? Now I know the name for the back and forth BS that I suffered from my parents. They both were alcoholics and divorced when I was 5. But they would
get together to drink occasionally. I was told I did all kinds of things that I never did! This went into my 20's. I was seriously doubting my mental status. I went into therapy and discovered I'd been played all these years. I'm NOT going crazy! How awful to trust your parents and have that trust shattered. After that, I just told them that I knew what I have and haven't done, so they can stop trying to convince me otherwise. How betrayed I felt. I vowed I'd never put my kid through anything like that. I did my best. My narc mother never had any girlfriends but now I can understand why. Competition! She always told me that I was too fat or that my hair looked horrible. I got B's in school but I should be doing better. Nothing ever nice.

Dad's been gone 5 years. Mom is 93, stage 6 Alzheimer's and doesn't remember a thing. Maybe better that way. She still prefers hubby's attention over mine and will tell me that she doesn't like me. I believe her.

Live your life the way you want those left behind to talk about you and what they'll put on your tombstone.

Funny thing about gaslighting is if you're used to hearing it, then dementia doesn't seem so different than before. Everything now is gaslighting -- doing something, then denying she did it or saying something, then denying she said it. It is all in a day now. I never know if it is the dementia or her personality. It is probably a bit of both. When I was young I used to wonder the why of the gaslighting. Now I know it is not so much about me. It is often about her being the person she wants to project. Other times it is about her being right at the moment. Either circumstance there's no point in debating what was said or done. It usually doesn't matter much, anyway.

Jessie you are so so right there not being much difference in the dementia and gaslighting. It is so insightful that you can pinpoint the situation because it is about being right all the time, knowing everything and projecting herself as who she wants to be if it means lying and constructing a story as to why its true. The pain comes in realizing you have nothing to stand on, no reason, no logic, no understanding. My mother just do and say whatever she wants with no repect for boundaries or general respect at all. My Problem is that I have struggled with this concept of liveing all my life. I get very hyped sometimes when she does one of her many antics. Even her voice is now in old age a constant of the voice she used to make me feel desgraced and despised. I truly feel for everyone who has a narcissistic mother because we will never get resolution. I mean you are not dealing with a resonable logical thinking person. Then I often wonder if I die before she does will my spirit get to rest because its like automatic calling me when someone comes by for anything as a child or when something is wrong. Then on the other hand same thing in reverse. Anyways thats my perspective on narcissim.

I have to pray to forget the things that have done to me by my mother and sister. the dishonor and disrespect and using me while I considered my self giving love from my heart. Now I am bitter I try not to dwell on these things but when I see my sister walk in arogance and look down on me with distasteful judgement. I think the nerve and get angry. I never judged her in all her mess. I did my best to cover and give love telling my nephews she doing the best she can when she chose to live with a man who would not let them even visit. I mean I just tried to help and now you can look at me with hate and have your son's not speak or answer my calls. Its so sad. I'd like to see justice. But just like will my mother, my sister is a narcissist also. I dont even want any type of reconcilliation there has been so much betrayal and ugliness. I just need to find a place and way I can pack all these memories and stop looking at them.

DDDuck, I've thought about a couple of things if my mother dies before I do. What if she had a deathbed revelation of love for me, or apologized for some of the things that she has done? Knowing her, it's not likely. And even if she did I would be like meh... too little too late.

Then I had the thought of what if I passed and she was waiting for me on the other side. AUGHHHH! I guess I better repent and live right.

I'm just playing, but I think many people on this thread will know what I'm talking about.

Oh yes... I certainly do Jess... I play these kinds of scenarios in my head quite a bit,,, it all scare me... I so want to get to a place where I'm not having to worry and think about these things... I think this is a big part of recovering and reclaiming our life back. I don't want this kind of stress to make me I'll either... I guess this is the hindsight most people forsee when they want no part in cargiving. Hmmmmmm....