Daughters of narcissistic mothers. What are the effects?

It is. It would be easier if they weren't so angry so much. It's hard to figure out what sets them off on days like today. I try to remember my mother's mind is broken. In a way that just adds to the helplessness I feel in trying to dog paddle through it all.

Jessie... Sometimes, I really wonder exactly how much is really 'broken' (in their minds) with this kind of behavior. I think it's just the way my mother 'is' and you can't change them. It makes me sad to think that we will never have the one on one (respect) that I so long for...

I do know what you mean. It was sad not to get love and respect as a child. I have to admit that as a senior adult I feel more like if you can't respect me, just leave me alone.

This has altered my life in so many ways, especially as I am getting older (you?). I wonder how I'll be able to cope with all the 'memories' and emptiness of having someone so dependent on you, while they have 'maintained' to keep their 'distance' (after the madness is over). It's almost like being discarded... Like an animal rejecting their young.

I don't know how I'll feel when it is over. I don't really know how I feel now. I know I look at a lot of discouragement each day. I know this is not the way it was supposed to be, but it never has been. I've never hoped that we would become closer, because that wasn't possible. I do feel a responsibility for her, because she has no one else to watch out for her. I wish she would make it more pleasant. I feel I'm being punished for a crime I didn't commit.

There is no winning, so there's no point wrestling with things. When it comes to caregiving, the deck is stacked in favor of protecting the elder. Last night as I tried to go to sleep, I thought about the craziness of yesterday. Even though I was not the perpetrator, the neighbors probably saw me as a horrible daughter who would not help this sweet old lady. They didn't know the story behind the scenes, only what they saw and what she said to them. I thought about how we could be well meaning and kind, but still end up in trouble trying to say No.

Cyndi, if your mother doesn't need you to take care of her, I would keep contact casual -- like most grown daughters are with their mother. There doesn't seem to be much need to enmesh your lives, judging from what you wrote. Does she have any physical ailments or need for care?

I saw this this morning and it hit home:

"A narcissist doesn't want your love, they don't know what love is. They want your admiration and your obedience as a player in their fake make-believe world."

Exactly Jessie... Cyndi is so 'lucky' her mother doesn't live with her. Distance yourself when possible... It's the only way to save your sanity (aside from this website)... I've been through just about everything with my mother in terms of catering to her... Like Jessie said, it's a no-win situation... I remember my youngest brother (who literally keeps 1000 miles away and rarely calls or comes over) said to me "you are not responsible for their happiness". Obviously, he feels no remorse for not involving himself with 'our' mother (or me). I hate to say it, but one of us gets stuck in these situations... Only one.

Ashlynne, that is wonderful insight. It is true. When a person decides that your purpose in life is to serve them, they don't consider what the effect may be on you. Today I am really subdued and depressed after yesterday. I'm on my way out the door to have lunch out and spend the afternoon away from her. Maybe it will pick me up some.

I think children who are raised and treated with love and respect from their parents are far wealthier than those raised in luxury by distant parents.

It's extremely sad when you know it wouldn't matter to them if you were here or not. As time goes by, you realize by watching their behavior with other 'strangers' and 'invisible' family 'members' that you're worth very little in there eyes... The little worth/value to them is how much you can do, do, do... for them.

Was just notified about some more replies being posted and I'm amazed at how many of us are gathered here.
On Friday, I confronted my mother who has many narcissistic traits (and no matter what, any number of traits can negatively affect their child) about why I wasn't going to go with her to pay a bill. Told her that I knew she was just using it to corner me later for avoiding her for two weeks. Told her she's a narcissist. I had to start yelling at her because she's always yelled if I ever said no, tried to voice a different opinion, or acted "too selfish," and I wasn't going to let her this time. And she did start yelling. I told her everything I felt around her, her projection, her competing with everyone's feelings and invalidating them. As she was yelling at me and my stepdad, I could easily see through her. I didn't care about what happened to her in the past, I wasn't letting her use it to make us feel guilty for feeling angry, hurt, fed up towards her. Her sense of entitlement is warped. She talked to my stepdad later and she tried blaming everything I was feeling on him, me or anything else because she didn't like being the one a fault. She even tried pulling up a commercial website that listed narcissistic traits and ended up only pointing at a few, thinking that would validate her feelings. She denied my statement of doing a bunch of research on this, and I kept saying, "There are different types of narcissism, not just a generalized version." She has a lot of traits of Covert Narcissism. So, she continued to dismiss my feelings and my stepdad's, that we have no reason to feel the way we do. We've gotten to the point where discussing this with her is pointless, and he and I are moving out in a couple of months and I'm applying for jobs in the area. I realized I had been searching for emotional nurturing/validation whilst relying on her and her expectations. Once I realized that, I told myself, "I don't need to look for that from her anymore." As a kid, how did I know any of this? I wasn't consciously aware. Kids are selfish, and she formed me to feel incredibly guilty if there was ever the chance of inconveniencing somebody. On Friday, I was so tired, physically and emotionally. I was tired of being too anxious to sleep. I was tired of being scared and angry. We started to feel like we owed her too much for very little. We started to feel like her employees (when I read this in your previous entries, I thought, yep she act likes that too). Never a compromise.

If you tell a narcissist they are a narcissist that's the last thing a narcissist will ever think they are. They will get angry and turn everything around on you. I've found out that you can't have a 'true' discussion with a narcissist.

This forum has been so very very helpful for me. I even printed out a very clear description. I moved in with my mother after my landlord sold the home I was living in. She was in need of assistance then and now even more so. My sister was already there. What I see now that I didnt see cause my eyes were wide shut is very painful and I find myself being very resentful. I will never have love from either of them and I have wasted my life trying to deserve that. Now I see them in a different light and I find it amazing how evil, jealousy and uglinesss perpetuates itself. My sister is just like my mother. My mother plays with my sanity I offten say is she serious. Its so funny how she flips the switch to a lie and concocts a story behind it. I get angry because of the years I spent questioning myself because I believed her. Thats a lot of damage there. My sister is the same way she does much of nothing for my mother. We just had a party which my son wanted to do for her 80th. I came across my sister seeming help to clean up. Im the one who did thorough cleaning buying cooking all my life and they both deny I have everdone anything. Again the sanity. So I am hands off now for my own sanity. So anyway while there goig through her bags she finds a table cloth and say she will use it on table for the event. well next day when my son comes, his wife made a beautiful cake my sister tells her oh I bought some things for the table. When I come back from replacing my two grills that were thrown out during a basement sweep I see these too table cloths and thats all she contributed to party. The cloths my mother found in her junk. So now I actually saw how she works. A lot of stuff was going over my head. I had such deep questions about what they would say and where it was coming from. Thanks to this forum I see things for what they are. Not everything of course. Now I just need to find a place to put these things in my head. Because I keep reliving past affronts and I dont have the option or never will have option to place certain wrongs in open or get admission of any wrong done to me. Everything that goes wrong is my fault. I mean everything. Right now I just need to keep my sanity not from the manipulation but from resentment and anger and bitternesss because I see and realize these ugliness been going on all my life and to see it clear is very painful.

That's right DDD... So glad you realized the pattern to move on and away from it hurting you any longer. I (we) know it hurts... They probably don't realize how they really are... Very sad to say the least... Such life lost. You have a wonderful son and daughter-in-law... Live life to your fullest!

Heart2Heart was so right when she wrote that it was pointless to tell a narcissist what they are. Narcissistic females don't have to be beauty-seekers or clothes horses. They are simply women who think they are on top of the heap and are worthy of service and adoration for no good reason. Typically they have butterflies and bluebirds flying about them when they talk about themselves. Those of us who know them know that even the crows would avoid them if truth were told.

It is hard to keep your wits about you when you live with a narcissist. That is because they have zero empathy with you. If they ever show caring, then watch out. They want something. RUN!

DDDuck, I wondered that since your sister is there, do you really need to be there? I would be tempted to look for a new place to rent and consider the rent the cost of keeping your sanity. There is a lot of anger and other craziness that comes in when dealing with narcissists.

You will never be free until you run far away or they die. Stick around and you will die before they do.

It's so heartbreaking to me that the innocence of the little girl within is harmed (by all the disfunction). This never goes away. So, how do we deal/live with it for the rest of our lives? Some in our position are married and some are single (all for various reasons). This can offer more or less support to those coming from narcissistic families. Is there a solution to always wanting and searching in this 'acceptance' of narcissism, so we're not in denial and still hoping for change? It's all so tiring and difficult to live with when you're always looking for 'approval' in the family (which will never happen).

Just being involved (mother, sibling, spouse) of a narcissist can be so emotionally draining. It can leave a person with persistent fatigue.

I have to admit that I don't look for approval anymore. I look for peace. Narcissists demand a lot and won't accept the word No, especially when their mind is failing. The person saying No is just being bad to them and cannot be allowed to get by with it. There is no peace except by walking away. But even then there is no peace inside.

I just thought that my mother is not this way to anybody but me. She is very passive with other people. She is very critical of women behind their backs, but not to their faces. I can't remember her ever criticizing men. Hmm.

Cyndi..l don't understand the family 'rejection' either. Like your mother, mine could have helped pull our family together (I tried to her this over and over) but her reply was "Why should I?". While she has been comfortable in my house for over 10 years now (and has everything), she has even laughed at me,in the face of my seriousness. After all these years my brother,.. sister-in-law and my only two nieces (who I traveled to see since birth) haven't had anything to do with me... This really slowly has affecected my mental and physical health. I basically have no family, except for some close cousins (and I thank God for them). Like you and others, I will never understand how narcissism enters to distroys lives. I think narcissism is a disease or an evil of sorts. It's those of us that unconditionally love our only parent, sibling... that suffer and have to learn to turn (literally) the other way and leave... But, the residue stays... I guess it's like when an adopted child looks for it's biological parent because they've been given away... only you witness the cruelty and heartbreak right before your eyes. I struggle also to obtain peace and want to get to that point where others in joy shoes have 'learned' to truly live with it and go on to 'accept' it and be happy.

I can tell that many of us are struggling with the why of everything. I don't think we'll ever know why. We'll only realize the effect it had on us and the effect it is still having. It's like someone grabbed all our butterflies and bluebirds for themselves. :) We can try to take them back, but I believe that Ashlynne is right. The only way to truly have peace with a narcissist is to get away from them. Someone who doesn't respect you will have no respect for boundaries and limits you set. They are just something else to fuss or yell about. Still, we have to set those boundaries and limits.

Before I discovered her narcissistic traits, there were nights that I wanted to kill myself or kill her. I didn't know which, but I felt relief from the thought. I knew then that I was hitting rock bottom. So I did more research, found a scholarly paper on Covert Narcissistic mothers and the affects and I had picked up on so many of her bad habits that I just hated her at that moment. She wanted to set a good example, but like her, I let my emotions and anxiety get in the way of so many things. I've taken advantage of the emotional validation my friends gave me because I felt I never got it from her. I bullied when I was younger to make up for things. One time, I was in my Pre-AP English class and I don't remember what spurred the convo the teacher wanted with me but she stared at me for a long moment before telling me quietly, "You need some tender loving care, don't you?" She wasn't judging me for being sensitive, she saw right through me and I almost burst into tears. Now, I'm learning to take credibility for my emotions and not letting them run wild like she does when she's at home. I unconsciously picked up her bad habits and now that I'm an adult, I'm aware of them and see there's no justification for her behaviour just as much as she's said there's no justification for my previous behaviour. She'll never take responsibility for hers and she'll never apologize.

My Typical day (trying to make a 'good' Memorial weekend)... (If this isn't narcissism, I don't know ...):
A few hours ago, I ordered a pizza (thinking this would make a nice gesture for the weekend)... I walked down to get it... Carried it home...
After my mother happily ate 2 big pieces... She said "I'll go put it away"...
When I came in the house she started in saying "I like MY other pizza better... Do YOU 'REALLY!' like (what toppings I put on my 1/2) THAT on a pizza....?.... And went on and on... I said "why don't you go to someone else's house and eat".... I told her I can't take here criticism all the time... Her response "I'm not criticizing"...
sure... This typical response ruins my night... I told her this is why I can't sleep at night... (She could care less)...
Awwww... Aren't the holidays great?... (Of course... No siblings around... Of course)... This is why we loose our sanity amongst so many other things...

Can I throw in a negative whine here about something my mother does that really bothers me. She uses the word We and Us all the time. She talks about how We need to do that, or that someone is coming to see Us. It is like she has attached me to her like an appendage and she thinks what she wants is what we want, and what she feels is what we feel.

It is an awful feeling, since she is the total opposite of me. It makes me feel sick when she does it. She does it a lot. It is like she is trying so hard to engulf me. Yuck. I'm sorry she lost her spouse, but I am not her new one. She wants me to adopt her life -- something totally distasteful to me, since it is a life of bad mental health and isolation. Why would I want that?

Jessie... My mother does the very same thing... They are living through 'us'. It's weird and through time becomes weirder and weirder... I feel my soul being sucked out of at times... That's why I feel my life fluttering by. So many people wouldn't know what we mean... I certainly do...

There is actually a word for people who use We or Us when referring to themselves alone. It is called nosism. It is often used by royalty and other leaders. I guess we can say it is often used by people who think they are. :-P

I'm so bad, but I really feel suffocated when my mother does it. It is like having my separate existence denied.

I know Jess...Cyndi... The bottom line is I have a deep love for my mother. It's who 'I' am. Life can be so difficult and sad... I guess this is why so many family members stay far away... Thank you for opening your hearts here...

Well... I took my mother to a quaint street fair around 11:30 - 2 today... (Wanted her to get some exercise, since she can't walk very good)... We found a perfect seat by the side of a stage and listened to 2 hrs of great blue grass music, to my surprise she actually enjoyed it and actually thanked me for taking her... I do thank God for that.

Well, as anticipated... It didn't last long.... (The longed for peace... )... Today (happening right now) has turned to sh#t... She's telling me how bad I am and telling all kinds of bad stuff directed at me... I was "always causing trouble"!... I never knew I could come so close to hate...