In reference to gladimhere's post above...My 85 year old mother died two years ago of dementia related complications. We pursued Medicaid to help pay for in-home care before she was placed in a rehab facility where she later died. Medicaid was denied because my parent's joint/household income (from Medicare) was too much. They were not rich but on a fixed income which came only from Medicare. (No 401k, nest egg, investments etc.) So, Medicaid may be an option for people to pursue, but it is not guaranteed that you will be approved.
We need to provide for the elderly who need nursing homes for their last 3 to 5 yrs of life without bankrupting them first. They should be able to get full time help in their home if they want to "age in place"--their place or a nursing home if they want to live there or require care that can't be provided in their home.
The elderly husband here just wants to have care for his wife in their home. Is it really too much for the richest country to provide free home health aides to help him care for the wife he loves? Rather we order him to put her away in a nursing home or institution because we don't want any of our tax money to go for this type of assistance to a loving husband. So if he is to get any help he must spend down (bankrupt himself) first. What are we penalizing him for, living to long? Loving his wife?
Other cultures care for their elderly---we give it lip service as a nation.
Making sure everyone understand what Medicaid is should be high on the priority list. We have all heard about the program on t.v. and how it shows young families need the program because they are poor.
Well, Medicaid is not just for young families, it is for everyone that has no other way to pay for their medical needs. Most elders are on Medicaid prior to dying because they are required to pay for care from their funds. When the money runs out, then Medicaid will kick in. It is not an evil program, but is in place to assist all that need it. I have dealt with this in my own family about the stigma that is caused by the media because of their portrayal of Medicaid and being on a government run program.
Your Dad loves your mother and probably feels like he may lose her entirely if she is placed into a home. He may also feel like he will lose his reason for living. Our parents who remained married for 50 years, they really felt a commitment to each other and were going to be there through thick and thin, for better for worse, in sickness and in health. He is living up to his marriage contract.
Dad needs to have a heart to heart talk with Mom's doctor and a social worker and the kids to figure out what is best for Mom and for Dad. If she is not on medication, that needs to be addressed immediately because they can figure out a medication that will calm her down and thereby help your Dad.
I have just gotten to the point of saying, my Mom absolutely needs medication or I am going to have to place her into a Nursing Home because as her 24/7 care giver I could no longer stand it. The stress is outrageous and the worst thing I have ever endured and I have gone through a lot!!! Mom has been on medication for 1 1/2 weeks and all I can say is "Thank You God!" She has a day medication and a night medication, she can still get up and take care of herself but she is calmer and not so difficult to deal with. This is manageable behavior and it is a blessing! The bonus is that we actually get to sleep at night.
Your Dad needs to have someone who is gentle and caring that he knows is on his side to help him through this, he should not be bearing the load alone. If you are critical and judgmental and yelling at him to toss Mom into a nursing home, he is going to turn you off and walk away. He has enough problems without hearing someone else badgering him.
Care about Dad and his health and Mom and her health and help him seek the medical necessities they both need. He may also feel like he cannot afford to put Mom into a home because all his money will be spent and he will have nothing to care for himself in his old age, in which case you need to find someone who can help him understand Medicaid and how he does not have to go broke to get her the care she needs.
This is all really hard but you are going to have to help him and be very kind while you are doing it. Mom needs medication or a medication adjustment.
It's important to have a backup person on your POAs. What happens if both of them get sick at the same time? On my own POA, I have a close friend as the primary POA and a relative in case my friend can't do it when I need the help. The secondary POA can't do anything if the primary one is willing and able.
Your dad needs definitely both a financial and medical POA. Because your mom has Alzheimer's, she might not be capable of using her power as spouse if something happens to him.
It's easy to create a POA. A lawyer can do it relatively inexpensively or you can get forms online to do it yourself. Be sure you get the current forms for your state because the preferred wording varies by state. If you're not big on online searches, a librarian at a public library can help you find the forms. If your mom knows who she is and who she wants to take care of her, she can probably sign her POAs still during a lucid period. However, if you have family drama where someone might contest her decision of who besides her husband to pick, you might want a lawyer's help on that.
I'm not a lawyer. I've just had experience with aging parents and spouses and POAs. I got a lawyer's help because I feel better about it. But the forms are all online.
I suggest you get the POA forms from the state and not a private web site. In Texas, our government web site addresses end with "state/tex/us".
Texas has the non-medical POA form here : http://www.dads.state.tx.us/news_info/publications/handbooks/STATUTORYDURABLEPOA.pdf
And several handy health related forms like medical POA, advance directives, out of hospital DNRs, etc are here: http://www.dads.state.tx.us/news_info/publications/handbooks/advancedirectives.html
I don't think the office of aging can order your father to place his wife in a facility. If there was a reason to refer the case to a court for neglect or abuse then your mother might be removed for her safety or others. However, if your father gets help and can take care of her at home, I don't think a court can order him to remove her to a facility if her from her home if he can show she can live well at home.
FYI...while it may differ in various states, I think a POA that an individual has had drawn-up overrides a spouse's decisions for that individual. A POA adds clarity to who an individual wants making decisions for them, if they can't, until death. Under the premise that the spouse rules, even over a POA, does not make sense in why a POA was ever created in the legal world. If both spouses are living, there would be no reason to draw-up a POA, as it would be assumed that a spouse makes the decisions. But, yet, many spouses are named POA or other members of a family are named POA eventhough both spouses are living. What would be the need for that if it is known and legal that the spouse overules a POA? In other words...if both spouses are living...there would be no need for a POA...unless the POA rules...the ultimate and final decision maker.
I had to reluctantly put my mom in Assisted Living after living with us for two years with her dementia after she became violent with Visiting Angel, with us and herself. Police did come and we got Mom later to doctor and then was told to take to hospital and had to be subdued. Hardest decision to make in my life but realized it was what was best for her. My heart goes out to anyone who goes through this. It is definite denial at first and your dad as above person said could begin to become in failing health also. It takes a lot out of the caregiver physically and mentally. Best wishes that all goes well. God bless
After my Mother with dementia had leg surgery I had to sign a form stating I would take care of her 24/7 or she couldnt be released from the Hospital and would be sent to rehab, and a nursing home. Of course I signed and took her home and took the FMLA, but if your Dad is old and unable to care for her he either needs in home care or elsewhere. Thats a tough stage to go through, I did it with Mom for a year. I would suggest a neurologist to curb her anger now wth medication, for her, and your Dads sake. Good Luck.
You got good advice here. As long as dad is of sound mind, no one can force him to place mom in NH. Even if you have POA, dad is still the living spouse and makes final decisions.
Best if you can enlist drs help or one of dads trusted friends to help him see his options and at least convince him to consider some outside assistance for he and mom so he doesn't get worn out and she remains safe.
This is difficult. If you believe mom is unsafe or unhealthy situation, then you could call in APS or geriatric consultant mgr to evaluate... But understand, they may find in their assessment shows that situation although not ideal, isn't life threatening and they leave things be and re-evaluate again in the future. And this may cause a rift between you and dad for interfering even with good intentions.
Bottom line, elders have right to make decisions, even bad ones. Sorry you are going thru this.
technically being the USA and having the Constitution no one like it was said is suppose to be able to force anyone to be somewhere they do not want to be that is breaking the constitution and sorry to say but elder services unlike social services wants to take people away to steal everything they have.. am going through this myself right now .. they make up complaints .. they lie and everything else to get what they want .. to send you some place against your will and then have people say you are incompetent when you are clearly not
Take a deep breath and consider that the social services we have are there to prevent harm. They don't want to "take people away" and start spending limited government resources on them!!! It's a pity to be afraid of them, people hunker down and hide, and miss out on services that could actually help.
The Dept of Aging if they are involved usually means that a complaint about abuse or neglect has been filed, otherwise, why would they be involved. A doctor can recommend a nursing home, no one can put someone in, unless they have enduring power of attorney and this means that the person in question is not capable of caring for themselves, nor capable of making sound decisions regarding their well being. Recommending something is not forcing anyone to do anything. I would say that as time passes dad will see that it is more than he can possibly do alone and will put her in care for her safety.
If her violence requires a 911 call, the police will subdue her and she can then be transported for a complete evaluation. Dad is in denial and does not want to lose her and may be failing himself. Time for a heart-to-heart with the MD about both of them. If he calls you and you can tell by the noise in the background that she is delirious, you should call their police department and ask them to respond.
I would contact the Department of Aging and ask for a needs assessment for your mom. I would also try to have dad somewhere else when this occurs.
If you have POA, then you can talk to doc. Without POA you can still talk to doc and provide all information that you have. But, the doc would not be able to give you any information. I would make sure you enlighten the doctor regardless of whether he can give you any information or not.
Sometimes, questions get lost on here if nobody responds immediately. That I find a bit frustrating and wish Agingcare would figure out a way to deal with this.
Diane, Diane, Diane, The last time I looked.......this was still the United States of America. No Department, doctor, federal agent, nor private agency can "order your Dad to put your Mom in a Nursing home." This decision is not up to the Department of Aging. (?). The choice is his.
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/support-a-caregiving-spouse-162191.htm
The elderly husband here just wants to have care for his wife in their home. Is it really too much for the richest country to provide free home health aides to help him care for the wife he loves? Rather we order him to put her away in a nursing home or institution because we don't want any of our tax money to go for this type of assistance to a loving husband. So if he is to get any help he must spend down (bankrupt himself) first. What are we penalizing him for, living to long? Loving his wife?
Other cultures care for their elderly---we give it lip service as a nation.
Well, Medicaid is not just for young families, it is for everyone that has no other way to pay for their medical needs. Most elders are on Medicaid prior to dying because they are required to pay for care from their funds. When the money runs out, then Medicaid will kick in. It is not an evil program, but is in place to assist all that need it. I have dealt with this in my own family about the stigma that is caused by the media because of their portrayal of Medicaid and being on a government run program.
Dad needs to have a heart to heart talk with Mom's doctor and a social worker and the kids to figure out what is best for Mom and for Dad. If she is not on medication, that needs to be addressed immediately because they can figure out a medication that will calm her down and thereby help your Dad.
I have just gotten to the point of saying, my Mom absolutely needs medication or I am going to have to place her into a Nursing Home because as her 24/7 care giver I could no longer stand it. The stress is outrageous and the worst thing I have ever endured and I have gone through a lot!!! Mom has been on medication for 1 1/2 weeks and all I can say is "Thank You God!" She has a day medication and a night medication, she can still get up and take care of herself but she is calmer and not so difficult to deal with. This is manageable behavior and it is a blessing! The bonus is that we actually get to sleep at night.
Your Dad needs to have someone who is gentle and caring that he knows is on his side to help him through this, he should not be bearing the load alone. If you are critical and judgmental and yelling at him to toss Mom into a nursing home, he is going to turn you off and walk away. He has enough problems without hearing someone else badgering him.
Care about Dad and his health and Mom and her health and help him seek the medical necessities they both need. He may also feel like he cannot afford to put Mom into a home because all his money will be spent and he will have nothing to care for himself in his old age, in which case you need to find someone who can help him understand Medicaid and how he does not have to go broke to get her the care she needs.
This is all really hard but you are going to have to help him and be very kind while you are doing it. Mom needs medication or a medication adjustment.
God Bless You All!
Your dad needs definitely both a financial and medical POA. Because your mom has Alzheimer's, she might not be capable of using her power as spouse if something happens to him.
It's easy to create a POA. A lawyer can do it relatively inexpensively or you can get forms online to do it yourself. Be sure you get the current forms for your state because the preferred wording varies by state. If you're not big on online searches, a librarian at a public library can help you find the forms. If your mom knows who she is and who she wants to take care of her, she can probably sign her POAs still during a lucid period. However, if you have family drama where someone might contest her decision of who besides her husband to pick, you might want a lawyer's help on that.
I'm not a lawyer. I've just had experience with aging parents and spouses and POAs. I got a lawyer's help because I feel better about it. But the forms are all online.
I suggest you get the POA forms from the state and not a private web site. In Texas, our government web site addresses end with "state/tex/us".
Texas has the non-medical POA form here :
http://www.dads.state.tx.us/news_info/publications/handbooks/STATUTORYDURABLEPOA.pdf
And several handy health related forms like medical POA, advance directives, out of hospital DNRs, etc are here: http://www.dads.state.tx.us/news_info/publications/handbooks/advancedirectives.html
Best if you can enlist drs help or one of dads trusted friends to help him see his options and at least convince him to consider some outside assistance for he and mom so he doesn't get worn out and she remains safe.
This is difficult. If you believe mom is unsafe or unhealthy situation, then you could call in APS or geriatric consultant mgr to evaluate... But understand, they may find in their assessment shows that situation although not ideal, isn't life threatening and they leave things be and re-evaluate again in the future. And this may cause a rift between you and dad for interfering even with good intentions.
Bottom line, elders have right to make decisions, even bad ones. Sorry you are going thru this.
If you have POA, then you can talk to doc. Without POA you can still talk to doc and provide all information that you have. But, the doc would not be able to give you any information. I would make sure you enlighten the doctor regardless of whether he can give you any information or not.
Sometimes, questions get lost on here if nobody responds immediately. That I find a bit frustrating and wish Agingcare would figure out a way to deal with this.
Good luck to you.