What can be done when elderly dementia patient wants a woman in his life who upsets him and uses him?

Thanks, I appreciate everyone's input. It is important to see things from others perspectives. The rules have been since he has been back home that the girlfriend cannot take him anywhere in his car. However, she can come and visit him whenever she wants and she can talk to him on the phone whenever she wants. She chooses not to visit him very often. She doesn't want anyone else around (I'm sure she doesn't want others to hear what she is saying). They've heard plenty, especially when they are talking on the phone. They've heard her scream at him fairly often and often she wants him to get that car gassed and ready...NOW.

If her whole purpose wasn't to get what she can from him...even when it isn't much, then these rules would probably work pretty well. However, Whether by phone or in person she is constantly working on what she can get from him. Hounding him relentlessly to get us to gas up his car and get it ready to go.

What she was doing before he broke his arm was taking him for rides most every afternoon and often most of the day on the weekends. She had somewhere she took him every day. That way she got all her business done, shopping done etc using his car and his gas. And also money from him for part of the shopping. She didn't get to terribly much because we would only give him $100 at a time. Telling him my husband has no right to control FIL's life. Wanting something done that since FIL is no longer capable of doing anything, she wants him to talk his family members into doing these things for her....putting new light switches in her house for, working her gravel driveway with a tractor, etc. And then of course wanting to borrow tools that FIL has, or she thinks he has and as happened a couple of weeks ago she threw a fit because no one could find the clippers she wanted to borrow and in turn go him so upset that he called his sister telling her she had to get out there right now, right away, he needed help bad, right now. Wouldn't tell her any more. She was afraid something was happening with the caregiver. Instead this was when he wanted his sister to go back to town and buy some clippers for the girlfriend that she had been wanting to borrow.

As I mentioned earlier. I do NOT want to see girlfriend ever be allowed to take him anywhere again. But some family members are talking like they want to allow it once again. I think mainly because FIL stays after everyone so much about it. They just get worn down and give in. Hubby was out numbered on it. And even knowing what happened the last time, they are talking about letting her drive him places again.

If it is possible to keep them apart do it. If not only let him be with her under supervision, by that I mean allow them some privacy just make sure he does not have access to large amounts of money or let her take him out. Make it clear to her what the rules are and if she breaks them she will be prevented from visiting (locked out).

Don't get me wrong - I don't think it's right or a good situation but I do think the more you try to keep them apart, the more he will insist it's what he wants - even if it really isn't.

To answer your question - I think it's now about exerting some control. Everyone is telling him "no" so like the child that often takes ahold of an individual with dementia - he is digging in and rebelling.

I appreciate all your responses, thank you! We've dealt with dementia with members of my family in the past. But this has really been a different situation. First the girl friend cannot get her hands on his money, except for very small amounts. He took up with her very soon after my MIL died. She sought him out. But he didn't have dementia then, he was lonely and made the choice of having her in his life. He liked the idea of "taking care" of her. That is his excuse when he tries to talk family members into doing things for her. "She needs someone to look after her."

I also know that before dementia he would never have allowed himself to be treated in the way she has treated him, leaving him in the hot car and in the car not helping him in the house. He did not neglect his physical well being. He also would put up with only so much of her trying to get him to buy something for her. He never spent large amounts on her.

By knowing these things, it stands to reason that without dementia, he would never have put himself in those positions to be hurt. And he would only put up with so much of her wanting things from him. This is the way I see it, to those who think he should be allowed to go with her. If he wouldn't have done these things before dementia, then why would we willingly allow someone to do these things to him now?

I think this is a common problem for many older men. When this all started she was a much younger more physically attractive woman. There probably was some or a lot of physical interaction and this flattered him and he got into the habit of being the chivalrous older gentleman and covering her monetary needs. In my view her behavior borders on sociopathic. A sociopath will do anything to get their own way. They lie, cheat and steal and can be so nice and charming meeting the other persons every need but the object of the exercise is always personal gain usually money which I suspect is the case here. Because dad has always been generous with her she thinks there is a lot more where that came from and is determined to get her hands on it when he passes.
I don't think there is a chance of getting rid of her unless you can find another old man with better prospects to take her attention. When she does something like leaving him in a hot car don't wring your hands take action.
She may decide his family is too much trouble to continue the relationship. What she did was elder abuse especially as she also took the keys. You could even go as far as hiring a private detective to follow them around.
Dad is and will continue to cling to this woman because he probably feels she is the only one on his side and always comes running when he needs her.
Of course they constantly discuss your husband's supposedly bad treatment of him and controlling ways. That is his way of wanting and getting attention and she is only too pleased to humor him when she knows there will be a reward at the end of the evening. Realistically she could care less if he is chained in a dungeon as long as he has his check book with him. Just make sure if you can that he does not have access to large sums of money or the ability to take out loans for her benefit. There will always be a sob story to accompany her requests. "I can't pay my property taxes and the City is going to sell my house at tax sale' Could you "lend' me two thousand?" It is always "lend" and a promise of repayment which of course the woman never does.
When these relationships finally break up (it's probably too late for this in Dad's case) the man is usually too embarrassed to take legal action so the woman is free to move on. One case I know of the woman was stealing checks from the back of the man's check book and cleverly forging his signature and writing in an amount he usually gave her for household expenses every month. Somehow she did this by copying old checks on the computer, but he never noticed and when he finally found out he was too embarrassed to prosecute. He got photocopies of his checks on the monthly statement and there seemed thing unusual to the cause glance. It added up to thousands of dollars.

Crap! Didn't mean to hit send! Okay - his family is making him feel like an invalid man - she just makes him feel like a man. I totally understand that your concerns for his health are real and warrented. I totally understand that this "lady" is irresponsible and an opportunist - that his time spent alone with her puts him at risk. I get it, really I do. But - he is 90 years old. What are you saving him for? Does she make him happy? He is a grown man wanting to be with his long-term girlfriend. Yes, he has dementia now and may not really realize what he wants - but he didn't always have dementia - and he chose to be with her for the last 18 years. I know you want to save him pain, that you and his family do not want another stupidly caused crisis where you all have to clean up the mess. I completely understand and know how that feels - six years worth of mess cleaning up! I also know how frustrating it is to watch your loved one be taken advantage of by another party for their personal gain. But it sounds like he loved this woman and thinks he still does. I don't think you'll have any more luck keeping them apart than you would if they were teenagers. Not unless you're willing to go the guardianship route. If you could get this situation to where her access to your FILs finance was kept to date money, if there are caregivers around to assess situations such as emergency grass clipping - and if you can get his dementia fully documented by a doctor - so you could pursue an annulment should she whisk him to Vegas and get married - I would suggest backing off and letting this play out. I have to think, given how you've describe her - that taking care of an elderly man with dementia will quickly cause an end to the problem on its own. At 90 years of age, if she makes him happy - well, it's not all bad. - Just my opinion.

kathlins - I've been thinking about your situation quite a bit - sometimes it's easier to think about others problems than your own, I think. Anyhoo - here's my opinion, for what it's worth - and I don't expect it to be popular. I asked it the relationship is/was romantic in nature - and here's why. Even though your FIL is 90 y/o and has dementia, it sounds as if he is cognativly aware - aware enough to want to see his lady friend, know what it takes to make that happen and complain about it when it doesn't. I'm wondering if at the root of this is - his family is making him feel like a invalid

Thank you all so much for the answers. I really like the idea of replacing her with something else. However, don't quite know how to do it. He isn't really up to going to the senior center or any type of function. He used to really enjoying talking with people. He taught a sunday school for years. However, he has had several stays in the nursing home for rehab now and each time he has refused to interact with others. I suspect the girlfriend may have been behind that to some extent. He used to be quite a reader, but no longer can see well enough to read and/or has lost interest. Used to watch the news channels a lot on TV, no longer has an interest in that.

Every day my husband is usually to see him twice a day. His sister comes to see him most days and his nephew quite often. However, usually rather than having conversations with them he spends the time complaining about wanting the girlfriend to take him places, saying he is going to use the tractor, lawn mower, etc.Telling my husband to just get them ready for him. Because my husband is not doing everything he wants done and in his time frame. He has extended that to wanting things done that he could have done himself for many years but chose not to, and now that he can't he tries to insist someone else do them for him. Some times he gets quite angry. At times he drives others away with all of this. My husband goes to see him no matter what. He has also has a care giver there to talk with, etc.

when the girlfriend comes to see him, which isn't often. They sit away from the care givers (at this time out in the yard) and most of the talk is about how my husband is mistreating him.

As I re-read what I've written, I am thinking maybe he needs medication. While in the nursing home he was on an antipsychotic and something else to help keep him calm. Once back out, the doctor took him off these medications. Lately he has also been displaying a typical sundowners behavior of staying up roaming all night. We've had to stay paying the night care giver more as she wasn't getting any rest. Medication wouldn't take care of the girlfirend problem, but maybe it could help keep him from focusing on her all the time.

I don't know why I didn't think of this before. It's kind of the Indiana Jones artifact removal situation. Before moving or eliminating one object, find a replacement one. Soooo, do you know any nice women you could introduce to your father, for just some social activities with perhaps you or another family member present?

I was thinking of Senior Center activities, perhaps library functions such as coffee and conversation activities, etc. You don't have to stick to only the Senior Center in your area; you can go to surrounding areas as well.

Perhaps they could even recruit him to assist in their planning and events.

What are/were his interests and hobbies?

Also, does he belong to any church, and if so, could you speak privately to those in charge of programs or activities and work out ways he could participate?

If you can substitute a good option for an already known bad option, it might help wean him away from this woman.

"As he has gone down hill, he started clinging to her. And he seems obsessed with her....almost like she is an addiction for him."

I think you've succinctly described the relationship, and his need for her. He's aging, probably frightened if not frustrated, and having her in his life can allow him to think as if he was a younger man. And it probably flatters him.

If that's correct, the question would be how can you and/or the family provide the kind of emotional support he needs to help him through this emotional ice field (which is kind of how I see it - full of pitfalls, holes, gaps, any of which could trap him - kind of like a glacier full of crevices).

As to the indemnification, if she doesn't scare easily, have the execution of the document at an attorney's office, someone who can be properly serious if not a bit frightening to remind her this is serious. Perhaps you could ask for a financial statement from her to ensure that she can meet the terms of the indemnification agreement.

It does take a lot of nerve to do this, and it sounds as if she's also a very nervy and certainly not shy and retiring person. Oh, and CHEAP as well.

Whose name is on the vehicle title? Are any of you joint owners? The concept of her driving his car whenever she pleases would really annoy me. I think I might go over and let the air out of the tires, or pull one of the spark plugs, or something like that.

Unfortunately, you and your family are going to look like the "bad guys" for intervening, but I can only see this situation getting worse. She's obviously very aggressive and insensitive except to her wants and needs.

And that raises another issue: has she convinced him to include her in his estate planning? Somehow, it wouldn't surprise me if she's taken him to an attorney and pushed through a change in his bequests.

My FIL will be 90 in November. She is around 15 years younger, so she's about 75. He can no longer drive. She has her own vehicle, she just wants to drive his to save her gas (she has more money then he does, but she even went so far as to when he was in rehab, going to visit him at noon and eating part of his lunch...day after day. They would have him in the dining room. She would show up and tell the staff he wanted to eat in his room and she would take his tray to his room and shut the door). As to exactly what their relationship is...friends probably with benefits. They used to travel together quite a bit. He wanted to travel and she got to go with no cost to her....she is ALWAYS about money. As he has gone down hill, he started clinging to her. And he seems obsessed with her....almost like she is an addiction for him. As for her feelings for him. I believe she is incapable of really caring for/loving anyone. She is constantly focused on how she can get what she wants....and what she wants always involves money. I don't think she has ever gotten large sums of money from him. But she certainly didn't have to spend her money on food, clothing, gas, small items she wanted. He provided all of that for her.

We've told her before that she isn't on his insurance, and she can't drive his car because of that. And we used that to scare FIL up about her driving his car....but that didn't last long.

The indemnification idea....I like it. Not sure that it would do any good. She doesn't scare easily. But definitely something to consider.

She managed to have an extra or have another key made to both his car and his house. He is no longer living in the house he lived in for many years but in another house that belongs to the family, as it is easier for him to get around in and in and out of. In fact while he was in rehab again last spring we caught her driving his car. This was after she had been threatened about driving it. Of course she said FIL wanted her to.

Am I correct in understanding that she always drives his car, or does she have a car of her own? If the former, you might try contacting his auto insurance carrier and ask what it would cost to add this non relative as an insured driver. If you're confident your father wouldn't think to contact them yourself, boost the figure to include coverage for her to some amount that would unsettle him.

Another trick you can play is to draft an indemnification, hold harmless and defense agreement (or hire an attorney to prepare one) by which she indemnifies, holds him (and anyone else named on the title to the car) harmless for any damages or injuries, etc. (there's specific legal verbage for this), but also agrees to completely and w/o limitation provide for defense of him and any other parties, whether passengers in his car or another car, if (a) the car is involved in an accident and/or (b) either he or another party are injured.

Or ask her to pay the additional premium to add her as a covered driver on his auto policy.

Alternatively, is he a safe driver or is he a danger on the road? If the latter, contact your Secretary of State or similar agency and ask that he be scheduled for a driver's test. If he fails, he'll lose his license and his auto insurance carrier will cancel his policy.

It is cruel, but not as much as allowing him to be manipulated by this apparently very determined and aggressive woman.

Lastly, can the family plan so many activities that he doesn't have time for her?

I don't think I missed it - how old is your father and how old is his lady friend. Also - just to clarify the whole picture, is their relationship a romantic one or just good friends?

My husband has offered to drive them out to eat etc once in awhile but she refuses. She as been with him for 18 years. Started about 2 months after my mother-in-law died. She never lived with him, but lived off of him for years. She was at his house from dawn to dark, went home to go to bed. But ate all her meals at his house, took her showers/baths at his house. That ended after he almost died from the heat stroke. A protective order has been suggested, but it becomes more difficult since he WANTS her around. There are some who have POAs, which she was trying to talk him into rescinding it. But since he WANTS her around, we've heard that we would have to have him declared incompetent to get a protective order against his will. He would be horribly upset. He already accuses some of us of wanting his money, not caring about him. Won't be enough left to matter anyway.

The reason some family members are reconsidering letting her take him out again...and spend days at his house when they aren't keeping the roads hot is because he won't let up, trying to demand that his car be gassed up. Telling people he is going no matter what. Can't stop him. The one who made the decision before to let her come back into his life is wearing down again. And that is what has us worried.

We've tried talking to her family. All they say is we can't do nothing with her, if you need to call the law, just do it.

Usually the trouble starts toward the weekend. This time we thought we had made it through without trouble until the care giver called and said she was planning to pick him up in 15 minutes.

If he has 24 x 7 CG,, can they drive the two of them on thier "dates"...and make sure no one gets hurt or nothing untoward happens? Like a big Walmart shopping spree on the girlfriends part? Supervison is a big thing I see needed here,, and good luck!

I'm having trouble understanding why someone stupid and irresponsible enough to leave someone with dementia in a car, w/o leaving the A/C on, causing a heat stroke, would be considered an appropriate companion by anyone.

If this were my parent, I'd get a PPO against her, and perhaps even install an exterior camera to document if she violated the order.

I'm wondering if your father's wife was a domineering person. That's not to suggest anything negative, but for some reason he seems to accept this woman's dominance and control. Any thoughts on why? How long has it been since your mother died (I'm assuming she has)?

There's an easy solution for not giving her the car keys; whoever is the owner would be responsible for her actions, including, liability for lending her the car is she has an accident.

If the family wants to see him getting out, why don't they take him instead of wishing this woman were back in the picture? It's clear that she doesn't take care of him, and in fact abuses him (the hot car and heat stroke issue is an example).

I find it incredible that anyone would think in terms of his having been happier if he dies deprived of her interfering and irresponsible meddling. Those family members shouldn't be making any decisions for his care at all.

You pursue an order of protection, based on past negligence and injury, BUT you must all be in agreement on this, especially the POA.

I'm not sure I was clear in what I wrote. This woman gets him riled up and he becomes more confused than usual. She will get mad at him because he hasn't talked us into letting her drive his car and take him places, or he hasn't been able to talk us into doing other things for her. Recently she wanted to borrow some grass clippers that no one could find. She kept insisting he had them some where. He called his 84 year old sister (who is in bad health herself) and said, "you got to come out here and help me right now. I need help right now. She asked him what and he just said, "you've got to get out here and help me." When she got there he wanted her to go back to town and buy a pair of grass clippers for this woman. The situation is stressful on the family and the care givers too. Some of the family wants to let her start taking him places again, just to shut him up. We don't want to see this happen but not sure what to do. There are some who want to get rid of most of the care givers and let her start taking him places again. The thought is, if it kills him, at least he will have been happier for a short while then he is now, not being able to go with her every day.