Will the debate over Medicare sway your vote in the 2012 election?

Dear 2much2cover: you make some points that deserve a calm response.
1. " women who can't afford or properly care for children " should then exercise self respect and restraint by abstaining from 'the act of marriage.' Let's hold ourselves to a higher standard. We are not dogs.
2. "unwanted children" - perhaps the birthmother may not 'want' a child' , but she can give 9 months of her life to birth the child, and select an adoptive family. Children languish in foster care because a birthmother 'wants' the child when he or she is born, but fails to realize she cannot care for this child over the longer term. Hence abuse and neglect leading to foster care.
3. " your wealthy mom " is quite the assumption, don't you think? Without sharing sensitive family information, rest assured my mother is nearly broke. My siblings and I are trying to help her.
4. Access to contraception does not lower abortion rates. Rather, by encouraging the mistaken idea that unrestrained sexual intercourse has no consequence, the last 50 years of our contraceptive culture show wild increases in abortion, divorce, depression, single motherhood, and venereal diseases.
5. I do not ever expect the government to provide for me. My dh and I work hard, plan ahead, rear our children, and restrain our spending for a better chance we can provide for ourselves. We also contribute to a number of charitable organizations. Get the government out of the way, and let real charities do the work for which they are best suited.
6. Investigate the principle of 'subsidiarity.' You may find it makes sense!

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify myself.
Sincerely, Anniebelles.

Dear Anniebelles, first, although you took it personally, my reference to wealthy mom, did not apply to you personally, I'm was referring specifically to Mr Ryan and Mr. Rommney and any one else who thinks vouchers are the way to go. I'm glad you and your family can financially help your mother. I am attempting to do the same with mine, turning down medicaid nursing home care, to keep her in her own home.

Dear Anniebelles (continued) my prior msg was not completed. You are expecting too much from human nature and the "immoral" problems you claim exist today have been the case way before birth control became widespread. The secret was that the wealthy had options, the poor did not. There have been unwanted children and unwed mothers, sexual diseases, etc throughout history. Unfaithful husbands, passes diseases to their wifes, etc. Clery abusing children under their care in schools and orphanges and local churches. Has your theory worked in Africa or India? Should we all accept that some of us in life must live an Angel's Ashes childhood , assuming we will survive it? And I also disagree that charities can best serve. Today, charities are big business, masquerading under non profit and tax free status. They pay themselves big salaries and spend a lot of the money we give them on "administrative expenses". and they are not paying any taxes. Talk about government waste and corruption. I don't have to list all the big name charities that have been exposed as corrupt. Finally, no I don't want to live in a town or a state counting on the goodness of my churches or temples subject to the control whether or not I will get the help I need should I need it. How many people here are getting help from their local communities. The reality is, most of us have given up our work (or some of it) our finances, our emotional well being, etc to try to do the right thing for our parents . I certainly don't consider my self a saint, highly moral or any of those things you expect of everyone. I am an individual human, a sum of my genetics and upbringing and experiences and I don't judge others inability to help themselves or to not make mistakes or have bad judgement because I have not walked in their shoes. But I do know from experience that the govt can have very useful programs to help people either get back on their feet or improve their lives or take care of them if they are children, ,disabled, elderly or sick. I personally benefitted from federal and state gov loans, workstudy and scholarships to attend college, having come from one of those poor working class families who did not abort their children. And now I am a taxpayer and not upset to pay taxes to help out others in the same situation I grew up in. And I do believe the government can do that best with the right leaders in office and govt can do it without conditions that you follow someone's else moral standards or religion or bias. Not long ago if you weren't the right religion or color you could not get work, go to school, etc. Because you were not up to someone else's idea of standards.

And re we are not dogs. Don't put animals down. They don't want to have endless litters of puppies either. But some owners think it is morally wrong to sterilize them and some are making money off of selling them. Thus we kill millions of healthy animals each year who have no homes at costs to taxpayers of millions of dollars. These poor creatures have no choice either, they are subject to their masters and our societies view of them.

And one more question to Anniebelles, since you mentioned you were trying to help your mother, what would your mother do if she didn't have family, like many elders don't? What local church or temple or charity will give her the help she needs? They don't exist, unless you have money. The local "nonprofit" assisted living facity in my area has a very high priced facility (like over 3000 a month for an apt and they don't even take you if you are in a wheelchair). So who is helping other than the govt? And the same goes for dogs and other unwanted animals, try to call a local non profit and see if they will take the stray mutt you found or cat. Unless it is purebred, they will say the inn is full. and some of these places have millions set aside in their reserves for future building funds.

That's it for me for this topic.

I agree with 2much2cover in that most people are just not aware of what little help there is in their community. I pray that Paul Ryan doesn’t get his hands on Medicare. Fortunately my mother had a career and worked all her life (and this was in the days when most companies offered their employees insurance!) and receives a little money from her savings investments, and social security, but that money will never cover the cost of a nursing facility. The cost for that service today is shocking.
My worry is not only with my mother and what will happen to Medicare. I look at the many children that suffer here in the United States and it makes me ill. I live in a state with over 11,000 foster children with big needs that are not covered, or even cared about. I say it’s too bad that there are political Parties that care more about the unborn than they do the living.

The unborn are the living.

And Anniebelle-- if they are aborted --- they go straight to heaven

BBrady, you stated " I have yet to read a comment that would purtain to the effect that any change in medicare would have on your specific life. "

I did cite a personal effect on my dear Aunt. She is being limited to the amount of Procrit she can receive since Jan 2012 due to new medicare policys in the new Health plan. Unless her numbers are below 10, she is not approved for her injection. Previously it was below 11. 12 is considered low normal and 8 to 9 sometimes requires a blood transfusion. This is to replace the blood cells that are depleted due to her kidney failure. When her numbers get low, she is weak, listless and very tired. The Dr and Nurses feel so bad that their hands are tied.

So YES, this is a personal example. I have others but there is no point in stateing them, the proponents of the New Health Care would probably agree with the new 'Panels'. She's too old, she's now worth the cost. GOD forgive you.

I meant NOT worth the cost.

Anniebelle, I'll say it again. It’s too bad one of our political parties care more about the unborn than they do the living.

I can’t believe what I’m reading from this Annabelle. You may have a mother, but you couldn’t possibly have a child…at least I hope you don’t. Your words regarding children are cold and callus. You are the type to turn head the other way. Besides you’re having too much fun putting down and condemning their mother.

There we go... I aplaude 2much2cover ... this is what I expect to read here.. you are 100% correct in what you say. I want to be able to understand a view on a personal level. The "tit for tat" level of thinking is just opinion and powerless. The personal view with personal experience is powerful and understandable. When experience can over shadow the blanket opinions of many of the writings on this specific posted question then it becomes personal and ownership of the rebuke is solid and sure. We all have experience with most of the issues that have been posted. I can understand now from your last writings, what your story is and the humanitarian you really are. This is more of what I expected to be reading from this question. I have written many times on this site... we all have a different story and we all come from different backrounds but in the end we are all human and we all shoulder the weight of pain and sorrow and need in the same manner. I am very gratful to have read your last posting... your writing is on target!!

to: likeamother... see.. human... I understand completely... though you care for someone of the older generation and I care for a gereration after me.. we are in the same boat.. I fear for what is to come for my daughter... I will most certainly die before her and the anguish that I feel today and the heart ache that I cannot provide the constant needs either financially, emotionally or governmental... she is certainly up a creek without that perverbial pattle... my opinion does nothing to change the way the government cares or sees the lives of those less fortunate then themselves. The sub-level care that would be provided, would see my daughter in the ground within a very short time. I can not place her in a home because the cost is unconscionable, she has to be hospitalized first before she would be admitted and if I could even think to afford it she would be on a waiting list for years... so it seems. Her age does not qualify her for many different benefits. As was stated above from another post her abilities for self care is comprimised.. wheel chair bound, not able to dress, feed, potty, hell she is 24/7 care... and because she can not wheel herself around herself or transfer herself for personal hygiene needs they won't even take her into a daycare center so I can find some form of respite.. I am one of the ones that gave up a good job, where we needed the double salery... my husband and I make do with just the one. I am round the clock caregiver. I so understand what you are saying about meds and only recieving what someone else thinks your loved one should be recieving. My mom who is doing very well on her own... somehow she survives on pittens... but she prioritises her meds, doctor needs, food in order to conform to what the government feels she should be able to live on. Her life to the government, as well as any of our lives or those we are caring for, isn't worth the worth of a penny! Thank you for sharing your story with me. This whole issue of what will be in the future and is now is real scary. It is all so unsettling. We survive as best as we can and I appriciate those of you here that are humble enough to wear their life and experiences out on their sleeves.

It's become clear that the only way to have an intelligent election in this country would be to forbid candidates from taking a position on abortion, gay marriage, or any of the other non-issues. I say "non-issues" because whether a candidate is rabidly for or against has almost no effect upon what gets legislated on those issues.
Unfortunately, many voters would rather feel than think. So, they're easy prey for candidates looking to stir the pot in their favor. If I have no realistic plan to fix medicare, the deficit, the wars, but I state as often as possible that "life begins at conception", "marriage is a sacred relationship between a man and a woman." Bingo! I've got the vote of a certain demographic of Americans!
It's frightening.

As I said the Republicans have no business getting involved with some thing they have been against ever since it started they are in experienced and arrogant and don't know what it is about except that it cost money money that they pay very little of and are against from the beginning
Johnny T.

Excellent point Johnny T.

I couldnt believe this question was even presented to the forum. Of course you are going to very diivided answers.. With anything there are good things and not so good-you know like you can make some of the people happy some of time but none of the people all of the time. I have seen benifts from obamacare and no doubt there will be benifits from the ryan plan.

and there will be somethings not so good

playgrandma, but who will benefit from the Ryan plan? What good is boasting about having a business, making yourself a lot of money, even creating jobs when you don't pay your employees a living wage and don't give them health insurance. The home health aide businss is a perfect example, most of them don't provide insurance, treat them as independent contractors, don't give them sick days or holidays. And these are the people we rely on to help us care for our children and our parents. I respect President Obama for recognizing them health care access is a need for all and for pushing to get some program, maybe not perfect implemented. And likeamother, I know what it if like to have medicare deny some drug or some equipment (for example, they won't pay for a pressure cushiion in a wheelchair to prevent bedsores but will pay if the patient has or has had them - no preventative care), but I don't think you can blame Obama for that. I think you might find the same or worse coversage with a private health insurance program. I know b/c I have one from my work. And with the voucher program proposed by the R ticket, as I said before, those who can take the govt voucher hand out and run and have funds to suppplement a more expensive health insurance policy will benefit and the rest will suffer. And those with the more expensive choice will find themselves with increaasing premiums anyway. I see this in home insurance in my state. They don't care if you didn't make claims or have been paying for years, they will find a way to increase your rates or deny your claims should you ever make them. Onlyl when we demand of our politicians (all parties) that we want decent programs and will pay our share but we want something in return (no waste, no loopholes for the rich), etc. will we really benefit from the political process. Otherwise, as IsntEasy pointed out, they will play us with their hot button issues to manipulate us to put them into office.

There wasn't even an affordable medical plan/option for most people before Obamacare. Medical care has been a long going problem and one that the Republican Party ignored until President Obama came up with his plan. It will be the insurance companies that will benefit from the Ryan plan.

bbrady----I will see to it that you are on my Prayer List. We need all the supporting friends that can find in these 'desparate times'

If this is truly the land of the free, and we cherish individual freedom as a baseline implicit right, then a woman should have the right to choose in the issue of abortion and contraception. Its called freedom of choice and its what we all say we want, ye tthere are those who would deny a woman this fundamental right. Whether you are pro-life or not is irrelevant if you support individual right to choose - you make your decision and respect the right of others to do likewise without enforcing a different agenda.
The role of government is largely the protection of its citizens - viz the military, coast guard, border protection, police, immigration, etc. Protection of citizens easily includes the protection of their rights and health, and that's where Medicare and Medicaid kick in. They protect the right to live of the citizens who do not have the financial resources to buy that protection in this market. And this market is characterized by having an insurance intermediary issue where the costs per capita are nearly 3 times the next most expensive country but ranks only 47 in WHO outcomes. An obvious problem and that's what the focus should be, not removal of healthcare but removal of unnecessary costs. Both politial parties should rally to this, and I also vote fpr the persona and am a member of neither party. I just want to see fair and evn freedom and healthcare

"An obvious problem and that's what the focus should be, not removal of healthcare but removal of unnecessary costs. Both politial parties should rally to this..."---AlanRBingham

I agree with you. Not sure if you're speaking of unnecessary costs as in doctors calling for tests, drugs etc. that may not be needed or if you're thinking of profit margins, fraud, unnecessary fees etc. But, one of the comparison points between the Romney/Ryan medicare plan and the Obama medicare plan is what each camp wants to do with the $700-billion that both sides include in their medicare plans. While the R&R plan would pull that money from beneficiaries (the people) to help pay for the plan, the Obama plan pulls that money from providers to reduce costs and fraud etc. I say this not for controversy but for clarity...unlike the misleading explanation that R&R is saying about the Obama plan (to "help pay for Obamacare"), the Obama medicare plan pulls that $700-billion from providers, such as insurance company subsidies, to reduce/eliminate waste & fraud and therefore cut costs for health care, which is part of the endeavor of The Affordable Care Act.

Details can be found at this site by clicking the dark blue box in the upper right corner..."Caregiver Election Guide."

I wish the answer were as easy as just saying, "I'm going to vote for Obama or Romney." The truth is we have a check and balance system in this country and no matter what the president wants, the House and Senate have to agree. The problem isn't the president, whomever he will be. The problem is insurance companies who want to maintain a hold on our very lives, by charging those of us in the USA more than they charge citizens in other countries. My daughter is a doctor, a pediatrician, and she has a list on the wall of her office of what she can and cannot prescribe, depending on the insurance company. Doctors need to be free to practice medicine. As for surgeries for the elderly, that too should be decided by the doctor and the patient together. Medical schools need to open their doors, so there will be more doctors. There is so much more I can say. The whole situation sickens me. I am an American and I love my country. Who took it away from me?

RachelDevin...I couldn't agree with you more. I too have had too many bad experiences with insurance companies. I won't go into detail here but it was obvious they had the power to call the shots and did exactly that. Why? I've come to the conclusion...because they can. I think most people, whom belong via their employment, to a group insurance plan and therefore have very little, if any, contact directly with their provider, doesn't realize how bad the cost and demands & performance of the insurance companies can be. What a surprise and a rude awakening it would be if more consumers lost their jobs and their insurance and had to seek it out as an individual. IMO many health insurance companies, along with pharmaceuticals, are the cause of our skyrocketing health care costs and it is actually them that could be considered "death panels". It's already happening and has nothing to do with the Affordable Care Act. That law, when fully implemented, hopefully will reign-in insurance companies so that they can no longer run amuck and therefore will return the control of our health care to us...the way it should be.

But RachelDevin and waddle1, I agree it would be nice if all drs were free to make decisions with their patients but again in the world of realilty, all drs are not perfect in that many drs or their staffs were taking kickbacks (money, trips, etc) to prescribe certain drugs to their patients, in some cases not needed or cheaper ones would do. We have drs who perform unnecessary tests and even operations. Some drs have investments in certain drug or other medical device companies. So we need watchdogs all around, watchdogs for the govt, watchdogs for the insurance cos and watchdogs for the medical profession. What I fail to understand and I'm not a religious person, but doesn't everyone realize they are a consumer or someone in their family is a consumer of the health care business and if you behave unethically or deny others the same care you would want or impose your religious morals on people , some day you will find yourself in that situation or someone in your family you care about and you will wish you had done something to improve, not cause or aggravate the misery of others. so i guess my answer to the question, who took my country away from me, is, we did it to ourselves, by remaining silent or not caring about others as much as we care about things and the politicians have played into this by pitting us against each other. I think someone posted that today, you contact an elected official and you get a form letter back. I remember you used to get a real reply. They don't have to worry about us, b/c now they benefit from unlilmited funding from corporations, thanks to the recent Supreme Court decision. So millions are being spent on these ads that don't address our little caregiver problems and lives other than trying to scare us.

2much, you hit it right on that, "Onlyl when we demand of our politicians (all parties) that we want decent programs and will pay our share but we want something in return (no waste, no loopholes for the rich), etc."

I agree!

When all of Congress and Washington, INCLUDING the President AND his Family is mandated to use the EXACT SAME INSURANCE PLAN as the rest of America and be SUBJECT to the same LAWS with NO EXCEPTIONS, then I might believe that it's a decent plan. But none of the above is ever going to happen. they all have special 'Golden' plans. And from the investigations done lately, do not have to abide by the same Laws we do.

At least the Democratic Party came up with a plan. There are so few companies that offer their employees group insurance. I think it’s a good plan, especially for all the Americans who do not have insurance, or can't afford insurance. My husband and I are self-employed, and have two children in college. We pay a fortunate of insurance that is little more catastrophic. My husband has had skin cancer, and it won’t cover it because it’s pre-existing. With Obamacare his insurance will now be “forced” to cover it.