How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

I check in on this thread from time to time. I don't have all the answers, but I'll just put this out. I need to read suddenobious again. I'm a little brain compromised from caring for my dad who is dying, so maybe I just didn't interpret it correctly.

I didn't think sudden obvious was criticizing anyone. Maybe I'm wrong His/her post was a bit over the top and not so easy to understand, but I thought it was more about society and how people cope with it more than anything personal.

Elvira: I think all the people who have commented on the NM thread do care about their NM's. It's just that they can't receive anything in return. I think of it like I think about my dog. A little pat on the head, a hug, some good food and you are nourished. The love (via nourishment) keeps you going. It makes you feel good about what you are doing. A Narcissistic parent only takes, never gives. If they give it is usually in a form of manipulation. That is not food for the soul.

Play: I'm glad you are staying away from your mom. She is doing fine. The only thing that is missing in her life is the ability to jerk you around. You don't need that.

Best wishes, Cattails.

to Iadee

You state: 'this one is for us'
So I was spot on.

You actually also say:
'if the poor locked up are being mistreated, then they need to start their own sight' (you meant 'site).

I rest my case: you don't care about the elderly, you're into this to get support for yourself.
Well at least, you admitted it, which is probably more than the others will do..

And of course, if you don't care about someone, don't expect them to appreciate your 'help'.

To playagrandma

You say suddenovious makes you feel sad and mad. That's how narcissists always feel when having to deal with criticism. I'm not saying you are a narcissist but you simply are never using the right arguments and constantly seeking support from your peers.
I read the posts and you were the one who attacked suddenobvious after his first post and it seems clear you are not interested at all in understanding or solving a problem, only in getting support for yourself.
Everybody on this thread appears to be so into getting support for themselves, which is really funny when considering this thread is about care for the elderly, not self-pity for their children.
I quite understand that elderly parents, especially when in retirement homes may become very disturbed and even insane. But where is the will to understand anything about these processes?
That you call a post that you probably don't understand worthless and suddenobvious a narcissist a rather bad signs as far as I'm concerned, and if you are in that sort of state of mind, it doesn't come as a surprise that your mother doesn't welcome your help.
This may sound a bit harsh, but it seems to me the posts on this thread aren't very clear at all. Everybody is so concerned about their own wellbeing, and there's doesn't seem to be even a hint of concern for the elderly.
It's all about 'we belong here, we've been here longer than you, we give each other support, you're not allowed to break in to our little club'.

I think you are being dishonest about the situation.

Everyone relax, Sudden is THANG'S sister.... and if the poor locked up elderly are being mistreated, then they need to start their own sight... this one is for us.;... and by the way Elvira, no one here is feeling sorry for themselves... we are trying to find support, with people with similiar situations, so that we can all learn how to get healthy, cope with what life has handed us, and get a break from our busy lives... so if you feel we are feeling sorry for ourself, then please don't read us.... we certainly don't want to 'bring you down'.....
And for whoever asked if this was Maya under a different name, nahhh, Maya didn't know all those big words.....

Hi everyone!

This topic is of high interest to me but reading through the posts a bit I wonder if I'm on the right thread. It seems everybody is feeling sorry for themselves, there's apparently not a hint of concern for those who were forced out of their homes and living in institutions, and I was shocked to see that the only one who did provide some very interesting thoughts on narcissism -suddenobvious-immediately got group-attacked.
I must agree with him that this thread appears to be a hide-out for people with a guilty conscience seeking support from peers. If people have narcissistic parents, they simply don't behave this way, because they are first and foremost interested in understanding what's going on.
Suddenobvious gave an insightful post and nobody could deal with it.

Gosh, yes - I know how it feels! My mother was ultimately diagnosed with paranoid personality disorder, which - when we heard the title seemed so obvious - we have all heard the adjective 'paranoid', but living with it, and applying it to the perso we are told we are supposed to love, is soooo hard. Ultimately I 'divorced' my mother but only after I appreciated that her stabbing me when I was eleven years old, and that my consequently attempted suicide attempt six months later was NOT normal.
Why continue to put your fragile head in the lion's mouth??? I wish you so well and will remember you in my prayers,
Hugs,
Your sister in torment,
Angela

Thank you for everyones support. I must say what suddenobvious said had me asking myself questions. Could I be a narristic person? Then I realized she or he was starting to make me feel like my NM makes me feel-sad and mad. I do know this-if she had a narrissitic person in her life she would not be butting in like she has because she would know that saying those things are not helpful at all. Everyday I stay away from my NM is another good day for me. You know never is a long time but as of now its never. Again thank you everyone and I suspect we wont be seeing suddenobvious around here anymore. Hugs to everyone

Oh, jeez. Just caught wind of the new Amber Jean, so I came on by to take a look for myself. Part of the caregiver etiqu
Sharyn - I laughed out loud when I saw your comment!
Suddenobvious, no one asked you to "conclude" anything, or to make judgements. You're new to this site, and, well, pretty rude. Part of caregiver etiquette is not to launch personal attacks, and it seems to me that you have. We are supposed to be friendly and helpful to each other, as well. This site has been a godsend of information, support and friendship for a lot of us. If you can't play nice, can you just play somewhere else? You obviously don't hold this site as something dear to your heart the way most of us do. I look forward to checking in with friends here. I look forward to the advice, pats on the back and humor. Sudden, you're sort of taking a dump on this thread, and its bumming everyone out. Playa - xxoo to you. I always look forward to seeing your comments.

I think by now we know how a narcissic person operates-many of us grew up with them-and age does not matter my mother is her 90's just get worse as the months go by.

is this Maya come back under a different name?

Playa~ Don't let this fool push your buttons, a narcissist seeks attention in many different ways and this is clearly one seeking attention!!!

(((((((((((((((playa grandma)))))))))))) -

well if you had read what I said-I AM DONE WITH HER. By the way why are you on this message board-seems you have all the answers-just sayin!

I'd first ask myself why I feel guilty. Is it something awful I'm atoning for, or the constant guilt trips my manipulative mother lays on me? My only suggestion is to enforce boundaries consistently. "No" means just that. If she throws a tantrum, ignore her. Unless it's an actual emergency, don't even pick up the phone after her 2nd hissy call. Also let her know you're no one's chauffeur. If she doesn't have wheels, I'm sure there's cab service in her community. I'm not suggesting you kick her a__ to the curb. After all, she's your mother. But you have to find a way to stop feeding her ego. "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. ... Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime."

Another Amber Jane in our mist.

I can not speak for everyone, but I believe most of us are on here to support each other, not to be criticized by an Einstein wannabe, or told that we are are socially high enough to be able to walk away from someone. Playagrandmas response appeared to be a defense to your assumption of the type of people that would stand by their parent. Your response back was down right rude.

thank you so much gbear-and so true. Sorry i over reacted but like I said in another post please dont judge any of us unless you have walked in our shoes Each have a different story-some horrible and although some dont seem so bad well that is for us to know-cause having to deal with a NM is a very horrible ordeal to endure. God Bless all and have a great day

I will not take the assumption to speak for everyone, but I believe that most people on this sight are here to support each other, not have some wannabe Einstein's view of how society works and to cut each other down , be rude, or imply that we are putting up with parents because we are not high enough in the social ladder to not be able to walk away from them.

oh suddenobvious if you only knew the whole story. MY NM DID INDEED NEEDED MY HELP AND I HAVE BEEN THERE TO HELP HER. AND WITH THAT I REFUSE TO ADDRESS THE REST OF WHAT YOU POSTED EXCEPT I GUESS WE CAN JUST POINT FINGERS AT EACH OTHER CAUSE YOU REALLY SOUND LIKE YOU ARE INDEED A NARRISTIC PERSON.

suddenobvious you are going way overboard here and way too much worthless information and frankly you havent helped anyone here that is dealing with a NM. Do you even have one or maybe you are on trying to tell us why you are one. Look there is no simple solution when dealing with a NM -because we all have different stories but in the end they are all linked. I for one did not come from a dysfunctional family-partly due to my father. There are five of us-one a judge-one a teacher-one an editor of a small town newspaper no divorces in the family-no criminals-drug addicts or alcholics. There are nine grandchildren-one a nurse-one a chiropratic-one working as a camera man for a local tv station-all three college graduates. Then we have four in their last year of college and all with 4.0 grade averages. Two left-one is in nurses training and the other just out of high school. So you see all of us have survived in this world in spite of NM but we stil have to deal with this woman. Our dad was a loving caring person and loved all of us uncondtionally especially her. I am sure he is the thriving force as to why we have continued to put up with her. However as i said before at this point I am done with her-my oldest brother is done. My sister lives far way. That leaves my middle and youngest brothers-they are close. I am sure one day she will lose all of us. Sorry I went on and on but frankly suddenobvious got me going this morning. Hang in there everyone and do what is right and comfortable for YOU.

suddenobvious...so what your saying is "there's no hope of normality?"

Inspiring, yet somehow says its all hopeless. My mother makes me "feel bad"...end of story!
I got to the point of 'I dont have to do this' and I didnt...for a whole 7 days after a blow-up, but guilt drove me back. I hate myself for that.

As for making negative comments about others, I think judy is doing the right thing. I have told mother that I don't want to hear about complaints about "so and so;" any more as I have heard it many times, and all it does is spoil the time I have with her. When she criticises someone's appearance, I have told her that that person is a nice lady and I don't care about her weight.etc. Basically it is setting limits, and I know that is a role reversal that doesn't come naturally, but if your NM is acting childishly, not maturely, then setting a limit is appropriate. Normal people tend to pick up on signals that the person they are talking to is not comfortable with the conversation. Personality Disorder people don't seem to pick up on those signals, or they choose to ignore them, so giving them honest feedback does everyone a favour. Mother used to think she had to comment on my weight and my clothing all the time. Finally I asked her if she thought I didn't dress well or look good. (I got compliments at work about my clothing and appearance all the time).. She told me that she thought I liked the feedbac,k and that my sister liked it when she gave it to her. I told her that I did not appreciate her feedback (which was pretty well all negative) and that I could make my own decisions, and that, in fact, my sister did not appreciate it either. Since then she has been better to me, and I have even gotten the odd compliment - sort of - certainly less negative feedback. She won't say I look good, but that something suits me. I'll take it. I can tell when she does't like something I am wearing, by the look on her face, but she hasn't said anything negative for a long time.
qbearq - You are right - they don't want solutions, they want to be able to complain. So be it - the hard part is spending much time with them as it is all about complaints. Again -setting limits - including cutting the visit short and leaving, works for me. I find mother can be distracted to a degree, by me changing the topic of conversation, though she is sharp enough to recognise what I am doing sometimes. (((((((((((hugs)))))))))) Joan

Hi playa - I hear you. Cards are a problem when you don't want to be hypocritical. I find cards that wish her a good day - which I can honestly do, but nothing about her being a wonderful mum etc. Sometimes I can find a Christian card which wishes her blessings - I do. A blank card would work too as long as you can figure out a message that is honest. I can wish her the best, wish her a good day, pray that God bless her, wish her a happy Birthday...The choices are limited. Somewhere along the way here someone said that gult is not love. and recently I read here that a doctor told a daughter something to the effect "If you can do it out of love do it, if you are doing it out of guilt (obligation? - can't remember) don't do it. I can relate, though if it came to something that was life or death, and I could only do it out of obligation or guilt, I probably would do it, but short of that I am getting - probably have gotten - to the point where I won't do whatever it is. I have found that my NM is remarkably resilient to things that would upset/hurt someone else. Their emotions don't work the same as normal people's do. Mother expects fights and slights - it is her world, and she waves them off as "So and so is in a funny mood again:". That has often been her reaction to me when I took a step back after she has lashed out at me. So, I say do what feels right to you -whether it is not to do anything, or to send a card with a message that you can live with. I sent mother an ecard at Christmas but didn't sent the usual flowers, nor did I last time she was in hospital for surgery. I am too tired of hearing the bitching about them being too big, too small, wrong colour, arriving at the wrong time etc. And frankly, I don't think it mattered to her a great deal that I didn't send them. I get more complaints when I do. .I did send flowers for her 100th birthday because she specifically asked for them - pink roses- and she didn't complain - nor did she thank me really, but I can put up with that. Know that the sky won't fall in if you don't send a card, and you may feel liberated that you have not acted against your own deep self respect needs. She will continue to self destruct - you can't change that. So look after you, do what is good for you -whatever it is, your mother will survive, and I doubt it will change youe relationship much. Actually, in my case, I suspect mother will appreciate - or at least not complain as much - about flowers in the future, as it is not taken for granted that I will send them. Good luck and let us now what you decide to do. (((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))) Joan

well its going on over a month since I talked to my NM. The last time I heard from her over a month ago-after all I did for her-she told me to butt out of her life-so I have. She is a very very nice place but continues to be unhappy because she got caught smoking, when she signed a paper stating she would not smoke. She told my youngest brother that she was going to move out-she has been told my all of her kids that she can do whatever she wants but we will not be a part of it-she can move herself and do all the things needed to be done for any move to happen. She cannot live alone but you cant tell her that and her dr will probably tell her to find a new one as he surely does not want to go back to the way she was before I got her straightened So having said this-her birthday is the 22nd of sept. And I am very torn about whether I should send a card or not. I mean why should I-yet hear comes the damn guilt. For sure it will not be a happy birthday mom card. Maybe a funny card? Then I thought of a card that was blank and put in a small message but what would that be? And I refuse to sign it love. Any help or suggestions here would be really appreciated. Love you all

Judy.....I understand completely...my mom makes loud comments too, about peoples weight, the clothes they are wearing, their kids behavior, how long it is taking to get food or prescriptions, everything. We were in a small bar eating and as a couple of guys walked by she says "how come those Mexicans let themselves get so fat"... I have always fought being overweight but she is a little bitty thing and has no idea.....Her apt started out as senior apt and is now open to younger qualified people....she went to the neighbors door late at night and told them it was their business if they smoked pot but she was tired of smelling it and would they please put a rag under the door. I told her she was going to get herself killed. A Sympathizer, yep, they block any solution because then they couldn't complain about it. Although my mom doesnt drive she won't take the bus...it stops right in front of her building and she is in very good health. I suggested volunteering at the hospital where I work which is just a few blocks from her. What would I do in the winter.....I said I would her...what if its hours you don't work.....I said they will work with you, you only have to do it 1 day a week if
you want....it is not a paid job. Go down to the senior center and take computer classes (which is now not possible because of her eyes).....no, I won't go while that witch (not sure how many of them that involves) is still there....same story on and on.

as was stated many times here-nothing will make a NM happy-NOTHING And at some point we all have to figure when its time to stop trying. My mom has enough money to stay in a five star assisted living place-she calls it a dump. I have not called her or talked to her in three weeks and as of now this could be forever Not only did she not appreciate anything I did for her-she resents it accussing me of trying to run and ruin her life She is very upset cause everyone that knows what I did are defending me The ones who dont know me, she is telling lies and bad mouthing me. Frankly I dont care. So as I said before we live one day at time and each of us has to find a way to deal But as everyone knows its just not easy some time

Vent away we will be here for you. What I remember is that some day we will meat our maker and have to admit how we lived our life-he knows what is in our heart and will not accept excuses for family members who have their treasure here on earth-that help me keep things in perspective.

Ive been following all the posts and you know what, you guys? If you were to read back on my posts, I am in much the same boat as you all. I work my butt off to find ways of finding care for my mother but when it comes to crunch-time, there's always somehow she blocks it and then whines about how she can't manage anything. I, like you all, am abused in a round-about way of her twisting things to make it sound as though she's not having a go at me, but in actual fact, we know exactly where she's coming from with it all.

It comes down to.....we all chose this road to caring while our siblings don't! We keep slogging away at it, while our siblings don't. We sacrifice and put up with all the crapola, while no one else does. WHY? i ask? Because....we just DO! Bottom line is...we do what we do regardless, but its hellishly nice to come here and read that I'm not the only one, regardless of being half a world away from you all.

What can we do about it? Well, we could stop being compassionate carers, I guess, but I'm also guessing that this isn't happening with those here. It's nice to be able to vent anyway.

Austin! My mother does the same thing! Its so nasty. When we go out together, and she sees someone who is very overweight, she gasps and says something like "oh, my, oh jeez, oh my god" so that the person turns to see her looking horrified at them. Or, she does that gasp thing and elbows me to jump on the bandwagon and rip the overweight person to shreds, which I won't do and have never done (sorta like being in a glass house and throwing stones!). "Ugly" people too. She likes to see someone who she considers heinously unfortunate in the looks department and then comment to me about them. I told her months ago to knock it off and that people have scales and mirrors and don't need her to tell them how big their nose is or that they're overweight, and that it was just plain rotten to do. She told me one day that she just doesn't understand how overweight people "let themselves go like that". I whipped around to her with my finger pointed, pretty irate, and told her that I DID understand. I've struggled with weight all my life. At the time Mom said that, she was looking at a really overweight woman loading groceries into her car. I told Mom, "You want to know what might have happened to that woman? She's probably always struggled with her weight, then had a baby and put on a bunch of weight. And then she had 3 more babies and put on even more weight, and got depressed about her weight and then put on more. And then she felt like she could never lose it all, felt like she was at the point of no return, and she's probably very self conscious about herself." My mother shut up for a bit. I was telling her my story. I'm sure she knew it. She's much more careful about ripping people up with me now. I don't put up with it. When she starts, I ignore her and comment on sales in the store or the wobbly cart or anything, just to divert her. She can be tenacious though, and then I have to remind her that I'm not listening to it. Then, comes the hurt drama because I've snapped. Shhhheeesh!

qbea good for you not taking her on vacation and you did suggest a way for her to get to the wedding-bet she never even asked your brother-this is good for you to knot to cave in-my mother whi is now skinny as a rail but in the past was overweight when she sees a large person makes commets so they can hear her.