How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

ASympathiser: I'm sorry to hear about your mom. You did all you could to make her life easier and I hope that gives you some comfort. My dad passed away 10 days ago. Sending you love and white light. Cattails

((((((((Hugs))))))) Asymp - my condolences. I am sure you have a lot of emotions right now. Do come back and let us know how you are, when you are ready to more (((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))) Joan

I am so sorry for your loss...as difficult as they may be, they are still a parent.

Thank you all for your support & understanding. My mother passed away this morning. I'm sorry I really have nothing more I can say right now.

(((((((playa)))))) I am glad you are staying away - regardling caretaking toxic famliy members, psychologist Pauline Boss wrote "Your goal is to be humane, but also to prevent yourself from being hurt further".At this point my emphasis is on the latter part - ...prevent yourself from being hurt further. Your NM is extremely toxic to you and the whole famly. She is capable of making her own arrangements. Don't respond to her sick messages. I told my mother after this last move that I would not move her again except into an NH. She had to start over again to buying furniture etc this last move. At this point, I am not sure I would even be involved in a move to an NH. The person she pays to help her could do that. Why? Because it opens me up to further harm. After this last session of nastiness, I have to retreat further to protect myself. I recommend you do the same, and start working on improving your own health. Back to therapy sounds like a good idea. Focus on you, and making your life as good as you can. I am not dropping all my responsibilities towards my mother totally - I am available for the ALF, the hospital, her doctor or any other professional who is dealing with her to contact me, but I want no direct contact with her, as the hurts come sooner or later - you know the story. I would rather, even at my age, if it was necessary, take a job to pay for someone else to deal with mother. As far as the guilt and being raised catholic -God does not "guilt" us - He loves us. Feelings of guilt are not from Him. I found online an excellent article with many scripture references about a Christian's responsibility towards toxic family members. I wish I had kept the link, I didn't, but in essence, the article showed very clearly that we are not expected to stay in the situation and be abused. You can continue to pray for your NM, but you are not expected to put up with abuse. God does not want you angry and ill from her treatment of you. Break away and look after you, and become the person He designed you to be. (((((((Hugs))))))

thank you cattails-I thought I had replied here the other day. I only have a cell phone and her number is in my contact list so I know when she is calling. I havent not answered any of her calls -she does leave a voicemail. I may end up changing my phone number. And yes hate is a powerful word and not doing me any good but then the guilt appears-you see I was raised catholic and had the commandments etched in my brain And although I have not attended a catholic church for years-those commandments are still there. Plus I am the oldest of five. maybe its time for therapy again. I am very fortunate though because I have the support of my husband and my siblings and an aunt-who is the youngest sister of my NM. None of us approve of this. She was very capable of making these arrangments to move out of assisted living and finding this duplex. Not once did she ask any of us what we thought about this. The reason of course she knew we did not approve. So we have told her she will need to find a mover and mover her. When she is settled she can call and let us know her address. This may sound cruel but she was told after she moved into assisted living this would be the last time any of us would help her move. So now she lays around all day crying, trying to get someone, anyway to feel sorry for her. Oh I am sure she has found someone that buys into her drama. We have long cared anymore what she says about us. As for my middle brother, he did go see her on sunday-and did what he had to do. We are convinced she will end up in the ER before she moves on the 11th. By the way, when she moved out of her apartment, which was small, she had to get rid of almost everything. She has very little and now she has to start all over and without her family espeically me helping her. She does not drive and she has lost her daughter in laws long ago. My brothers have told her they will visit her after she moves. The jury is still out for me. But for now i am not ready to deal with this woman.

Playgrandma: I'm sending you my best wishes. You are in a difficult position and all I can suggest is that you revisit what you know to be true. I was moved by your comment, "I can't get this woman out of my mind....and not with worry.....but with hatred." That was a very powerful statement. Very powerful.

You mentioned two options: "Do we just give in or continue the tough love, knowing it do a damn bit of good."

For what it is worth, here is what I would suggest. Just safe yourself. That's all you have the power to do. It's not about giving in and it's not so much about tough love. It's about extricating yourself from the mental illness of another who wants you involved in her nightmare.

You can't change her and you can't save your brother. I hope he will save himself too, but you can't do that for him. You can, however, be a voice of reason to him when he can no longer cope. He has a better chance of coming back to reality than your mom will ever have.

I hope you have caller ID and can choose which call to answer when you are at home. Maybe you can block her phone number so you no longer can receive voice mail messages from her. I don't know if it is realistic to disconnect your answering machine. I know we are all so dependent on our devices, but please try to find a way to lessen her ability to manipulate you.

My heart goes out to you and I realize it isn't easy. Best regards, Cattails

I really need everyone today. After not hearing my NM for weeks as you know she left a vociemail last friday trying to get back into my good graces. I did not call her. Then yesterday I receive two-almost begging me to forgive her. And now after two months thanking me and my husband for all we did for her. How unhappy she is and she wants her family back together-this is after she told us that we were no longer a part of her family. She just doesnt understand that at her family have no issues with each-the issue is her. She said several times how she wanted me to forgive-she knows she has been very very bad to me. Of course this is the pattern of a narrisstic person She decided to move out of assisted living to a duplex and asked for no input or help in doing this. She knows that we all disapprove and that it will be a matter of time and she will be back in the hosptial. So far we all have refused to help her move-I cant because we are at my daughters miles away. She then insulted me by saying when she gets her money back from vacating her apartment(the apartment she was in before assisted living she actually had to purchase like a house but will get a good part of that back)she would like to give me some money for all my hard work. Trying to buy me just wont work. But the kicker was that if she couldnt get her kids to love her she would find a razor and slit her wrist-when she got to the work wrist-I refused to listen to the rest of the message. She has threatended stuff like this before-taking all her pills at once-running out on the highway so a car would kill etc. I know these are all part of her using these things for guilt cause she knows she dont even have access to a razor blade

I am so upset. I cannot get this woman out of my mind and not with worry but with hatred. I should be concerned about my health and I am. I have high blood pressure and this dont help at all. My middle brother is going to go talk to her today. I worry about him. He is lupus and crohns and stuck in a teaching job with inner city kids. None of us know what to do anymore. Do we just give in or continue the tough love knowing it wont do a damn bit of good. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Thank goodness I am not near her right now and I have my grandson-we are taking him to a movie and for pizza today.

Thanks everyone for allowing to vent. And have a great sunday funday.

so sorry to hear this news. However I think what you are feeling is expected. Its really sad. My NM has about lost all her kids-three of the five and that includes me are actually dreading the day she dies-not out of losing her but thinking we dont want to have te endur a visitation and funeral -greeting people and trying to be nice. The thought makes me sick to the point my sister said she probably wouldnt bother. None of us can hang onto the good memories because there really isnt any. She left a voice mail for my oldest brother yesterday and said it was bad enough her mother didnt love her she didnt think her kids would be the same. you see she has that all wrong-the apple dont fall far from the tree-she dont love us cause she dont know how to love. All the family can understand in part her struggles cause her mom did take off when she was like 10 but she is 83 and she had a husband and five good kids that have tried to love her but she never appreciated that. So all she has left now is her misery. We all have said her mom probably did her a favor by taking off instead off having to put up with this horrible verbal abuse. I have been told my other members of my NM family-that she is just like her mother. I am thinking about you in your last days of struggling with this.

ASympathizer....I am so sorry...that must be so hard....someone as important as a parent that you love and feelings get hardened from their irrational behavior. I pray I never get to that point but it is understandable. We can only take so much before we have to put up a wall to function. I agree with MyWitsEnds...eventually try to hold on to the good memories and realize that the end was a part of aging and changing or increasing behavioral issues that we have no control over.

I am sorry ASympathiser. My NM mother passed away 5 years ago. When the end was near, I had some guilt that all I really felt was relief. Now, I miss the good times with her, and I hold on to the good memories. The rest I just let go of. What you are feeling is completely normal.

Here it is 3 days later and the hospital doctors have just told me that my mother has severe phneumonia that she will not recover from, and that she will pass perhaps within this week.

So why is it, I don't have the normal feelings a daughter should have with this news? Why couldn't I bring myself to hug her frail body or hold her hand? I feel so emotionally dead and struggling with my feelings to find that place within me that pines knowing I could lose my mother tonight. :(

No nothing...after spending all day Sat with my mom going to the earth festival she threw a fit Sun morning to my husband then to me. I got up and walked my dog with a friend and hers, my normal routine at the campground. Got back around 10 and told her we were going to Lizs deck to set out in awhile. Wanted to grab me some cereal and had some things to first (did not give her a time). Liz came by and said she didn't want us to miss her...she was going to run down to the bridge ont he golf cart and did I and my puppy want to go. We hopped on and were back in about half an hour. My husband goes over at my request to tell my mom we were going to her place shortly and she starts screaming at my husband that I care more about my "d" dog and my friends and her....that she had been setting there by herself since 6 am watching me come and go after I told her I was going to take her with me. When I walked over there she was as calm faced as could be but started saying the same things very hatefully. She said it was 4 hours since I had told her I would be back to get her....it was barely noon. I explained I had eaten breakfast, cut up veg and chicken to put in crockpot for supper, and took a short trip with Liz. She was looking at me so hateful that I lost and I started getting upset and yelling that I couldn't take much more. I am up at the campground to relax and not be on a written time schedule. I do things as they come up, and I had not given her a specific time. She then says "why are you getting upset...and who needs to see a shrink now". I felt like she stabbed me in the stomach. It was worse than her crying and screaming....

agreeing with emjo's reply playagrandma. Only we, ourselves, can deal with the guilt feelings we choose to carry....and I have plenty of them!

After 5mths of laying in her bed, growing weaker by the day, my mother decided last night at 2am in the morning that she wanted me to ring an ambulance for her to take her to hospital. Its not as if she hasn't been told for 5mths by everyone involved, that it would come to this. So here I am being woken out of a deep sleep by the phone ringing. She also rang the next-door neighbour. So a quick trip over to her place, ambulance arriving, etc....the paramedic asks her "why ring us tonight and not yesterday, or last week?" Her answer...."Cause I got the s**ts with it all." ahhhh...dahhh..it took 5mths to get to that?!!!!!
So here we are with a lung infection (from lying on a bed for 5mths) and other graver things. later.

Well, guess what! Even my golden-child sister (on her once every 2mth visit) got the cold-shoulder & the sword-tongue on her visit last weekend. Nothing different to what I've been enduring forever! We are all out-of-favour now...except the next-door-neighbour, it seems.

So you see playagrandma...i wouldn't let it bother you none. In these people's eyes, there is NOTHING you do that is done right! ....EVER!!!****

Good for you playa you are taking a page from Lisa's book Emjo has said it all -much better then I could have put that guilt is a paper bag and chuck it-you have no reason for any guilt-let your brother deal with her and the AL that my friend is in is a beautiful place which it should be for $4000.00 a month and anything you need you pay for plus much money up front-she may have a problem getting into any AL with her smoking habit but that will be HER PROBLEM not yours after all she does not need you or want you in her life-so that is what you do.

"I am not giving in with her-let my brother deal with her"

stick with that, playa -

"I am trying real hard to stay strong-to not let the guilt overtake me. "

and stick with that

The only reason you feel guilty is because she had trained you to feel that way, and that you are responsible for her happiness, which is, incidentally, unachievable. We are brought up to tolerate behaviour way beyond what is healthy or normal - it is abusive.

Take deep breaths and keep reminding yourself of these resolves -

don't give in to her demands, or even her apologies because you know they are not sincere

let your brother deal with her

stay strong and do not let the guilt overtake you.

You have done nothing to feel guilty about . Arousing feelings of guilt in you is her sick way of manipulating you. Remember that narcissists use FOG - fear, obligation and/or guilt to manipulate other to do what they want. It is all about attention and control.

Good for you - rooting for you - hugs and prayers Joan

something happened friday that i wanted to share with you. After telling everyone that i was nuts and crazy and telling me that I was to BUTT out of her life, to mind my own business and stop interfering-she calls and leaves me a voice mail telling me she needs my help. REALLY? You see her birthday was saturday and I had sent a card-not to mom card-just a plain simple happy birthday card-and signed it -no love nothing. But she took that as everything was okay-NOT and of course now I regret sending any kind of card. Also she has found out that no one in the family has agreed to help her. So I guess since I have always been there to help no matter how bad I have been treated-that I would run right over to see her. Of course she said she was sorry of course she said she has been a mean mean mom but that likes a broken record with her. I am trying real hard to stay strong-to not let the guilt overtake me. Of course it doesnt help when the baby brother who told her she had no choice but to go into assisted living now tells her she can do whatever she wants and tells me this 'how would you like to be stuck in that place with no where to go or nothing to do' I didnt even reply. It will be worse where she is going but in the end he will regret having this attitude cause like I said before the place where she is going is in the same town where he works. Okay enough just wanted to share. I am not giving in with her-let my brother deal with her

After a couple of slapdowns by a few posters, it really made me think. Was I being overagressive with my NM? I really thought I had been trying to help her. And as long as no one else would and as long as she was sick-she accepted my help. She went into assisted living July 31st and within hours she was already complaining. I have not seen or talked to her since that day. I stepped away long before the discussion that took place here that maybe I am the problem in this situation She has done nothing but make everyone miserable and finally did the one thing she was told she couldnt do and that was smoke in her room, She was fined $250 and told next time could be grounds of dismissal She indicated to two of my brothers that she was going to move. of the five kids-they are the only two talking to her They told her to do whatever she wanted but she wouldnt get any help in finding a place or help her move. She has one friend and one friend only, who the family suspects she is giving money to, that has helped her find a place. Its in another retirmement community, She will be moving into a cottage. To refresh your memory on this-she went to assisted living cause she cannot live alone. Oh she looks independent cause she can move around good. But she dont drive and she fell several times-she messed up bad with her medications and that caused her not to feel good with all sorts of issues I am sure she THINKS she is happy because she can now smoke again and do whatever she wants when she wants to do it. I feel bad cause I guess I denied her that by helping her get into assisted living. However the whole family was agreement and her dr insisted on it. If fact my baby brother(her golden child)was the one who called assisted living to get the ball rolling but then didnt lift one finger to help her get moved. So of course now I am getting blamed for dumping her there and blamed for her unhappiness but guess what? she feels better now than she has in years. So im done. Within days she will be unhappy again-its the pattern the family has put up with for years. Her kids are fed up. And all of us are convinced that she will be back in the hospital sooner than later. And whatever happens at this point happens. I dont plan on having any communication with her. And maybe she likes it that way. Time will tell. 337 postings again, I started this thread and I thank you all for your support and happy maybe we helped others. but i am telling you no matter how hard it is to let go-especially in my case I have to let it go. To i think she will be okay-no-do i think she will happy-of course not.

Have a good weekend everyone. Love you all

Book: Your offer is almost to good to pass up. My guess is you didn't have any takers. However, it was an excellent post. Cat

quote :- (((((eddie -I'd first ask myself why I feel guilty. Is it something awful I'm atoning for, or the constant guilt trips my manipulative mother lays on me?))))

LOL! that's too ridiculous to even respond to ***

((((((((hugs)))))))) Hope you have a good weekend
with a narcissist "No good deed goes unpunished" so you are d*mned if you do or d*mned if you don't so may as well go ahead and do what you feel right about.

Don't worry you will not turn out like her - not a chance!

wow are they really gone Thank you so much for all your support. One thing for sure I did feel sad and mad because one you have to deal with a NM, you are constantly thinking-hey will I turn out to be her? Then to get blamed well you can imagine what was going through my brain. Nothing is easy when it comes to dealing with NM And at times yes I became bossy and taking over. But I had no choice. I had three brothers although have good intentions just were not stepping up to try and figure out why she was always sick to her stomach-why she was having accidents after she ate-why she over all didnt feel good. I steppped in to find out the problems and now she is good for the first ime. And after all is said and done-I got accused by her of butting into her life and bossing her around only to have elvira ns superobvious to tell me I was the one that was the narrissits-so yes I was sad and mad. A big thank you and hugs go out to each and everyone of you I feel all of your pain and hurt in having to deal with your NMs and hope you all have a wonderful weekend

I didn't read this thread all the way through...only the last end. When Elvira (aka Anonymous124098) told Playagrandma that she must be narcissist because she reacted to criticism with sadness and anger... What would I be? I handle criticism like it was a death sentence. I don't think it's because I'm narcissistic but due to Low Self Esteem!

Uhm... Elvira and Suddenobvious - since you both are so gungho pro-elderly care who should NOT be sent to NH, etc... Would you be willing to fly here - at your expense - and help me care for my 2 bedridden parents? Since I'm not able to afford to pay you both, can you put it in your heart to work one for day shift and the other night shift so that my parents can remain home? I've had a very difficult time finding relatives to watch for FREE. But, based on your comments here, perhaps, you would like to do so - out of the goodness of your heart? I would really, really appreciate it!

Oh, by the way, my oldest sis who had a nervous breakdown will be moving here soon. She tends to talk to "people who can't see" and stares into space, and laughs out of the blue. So, you may need to be caring for her too. Careful, she may sneakily smoke a cigarette in the bedroom. You must prevent her from doing this because my mom is on oxygen machine.

What do you think? Want to apply your beliefs into action? Airfare is about $1800-$2100.00 roundtrip. But you don't need roundtrip. One-way is fine - about $1300.00.

Well, if they can't play nice, then I'm glad they're gone. It just seemed like one was spouting off like we were supposed to fall down and thank her for her wordy comments, which I thought seemed pretty pretentious, like she wanted people to think she was an egghead, and the othe one chastised everyone for getting upset for feeling attacked and judged by the wanna-be egghead. Definitely an upleasant duo. Its too bad, because if the wanna-be egghead could've controlled her ego and her temper, and shortened her dang comments, she really had an interesting, altough a bit twisted, point of view.

A lot us reported it and i also sent an email to the staff around 2:30am my time so i think we all helped get them removed or him/her cuz I wouldnt be surpeised if they were the same person with differnt accounts.

Isnt it great Judy!

Holy crap. Where'd anonymous go? I read in comments that it was a person named Elvira, but was she booted or did she self boot because I can't find Elvira comments or profile at all? Looks like I missed all the excitement. And, suddenobvious's comments are all missing. I have to admit, I did report one that just simply attacked, but it had to be more than me reporting for booting to happen, unless she removed herself. Either way, I'm happy.

wow I didnt realize i was such an evil person. you know this site had been very helpfful up to now. You know maybe I dont explain myself very good so this especially for superobvious who I will now superclueless and elvira. My mom is not in what you call a resthome. So get over that one. The last place I want my mom in is a nursing home. However she was not taking care of herself properly and was going to put in in one of I hadnt stepped in. Thankfully she was already living in a retirement community that offered assited living. This facitlily is a 5 star place. For the first time in years she is feeling good and in a safe place-you see she had fallen twice when living by herself. The family feared that the next time she fell, she would go to the nursing home. You see you dont know my mom-she has never been happy and it really would be easier to just walk away. Suddenobvious and Elvira-do you have a NM? How do you deal with that? Maybe you could give us some advice and instead of judging. Of coure all of us have made mistakes in dealing with our NM. Like I said I guess I dont tell it right but I can assure the two of you-I have not ripped her out of her home and MADE her doing anything-she is her own boss

I would ask who Amber Jane is but I don't think I want to know

Ok elvira, I'll play, I am very appreciated by my elders... as I appreciate them also... love them dearly, and thanks for the correction as those things are important to you...
And in case you missed it,,,,Aging Care, connecting people caring for elderly parents... DUH, this is a support group.... I'm not sure what you think we should be talking about... please feel free to give us your input.... pretty sure we will go on as we have been, but hey, you feel the need to have something to say also, so we are listening...
I've been on this "site" for years, and to think I had it wrong all this time... silly me.