How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

I sure can feel your frustration. Funny about the hanging up cause I actually have did that twice now in the last two weeks. With her only time will tell. Right now my approach is this-take her calls and listen. If she gets combative, I will hang up. Sometimes if I am not in the mood, I wont answer the phone. Often times she will not leave a mesasage so i will assume it wasnt important. One thing I am doing though is talking to her dr-he needs to know not what he is dealing and her aparent confusion on what pills she is taking. She started her therapy thursday. Naturally it will take a few more to see if this will work. Bets in the family is that it wont. Never has before. I will keep you posted. A big thanks to everyone for your support and advice. Every little bit helps.

I am having the same problem with my mother-in-law who lives with us. I have to fight with her to go to the hairdresser, take a shower, etc. It has always been her nature to be contrary, however, I also think she is trying to hold onto some control in her life. Also, lying is also a problem. She's been with us now for over 2 years and I have found the best way to deal with her is to acknowledge her complaint (so she know she is being heard), but go ahead with our plans because no matter how we approach her, she will disagree.

I also had issues with my own mother. She was also very manipulative and would make me feel very guilty. While on the phone, she would rant and rave. Initially, I felt like I had to listen to her because she was my mother and I felt deserved my respect. However, I realized she was verbally abusing me and it wasn't until I started hanging up on her when she started insulting me, that the attacks stopped because she realized I was no longer willing to put up with it.

The bottom line is that if you change the way you deal with her, she has no choice but to modify her behavior. Behavior modification sometimes works. When she throws a tantrum because you will not bring her somewhere , perhaps you could let her know that you will not bring her with you if she can't behave. If she does misbehave, leave immediately. This might be hard to do at first, but it gets easier each time you do it and once she makes a connection between her misbehaving and your leaving, hopefully she will modity her behavior.

I wish you the best...I know it's hard to deal with a narcisstic Mom, but you do have the power as to how you deal with her.

Termite1Teresa, 'her worshipfullness', your queen mum, is not going to change. She can't be fixed into the mother it sounds like you never had and it is not your fault that she is the way she is. It looks like she survived well during your three week trip. So, she can survive without you jumping to her every command, possibly not visiting as often and for shorter periods of time. You have not done anything to feel guilty for although that is one of three major tools that a narcissist uses to keep you under their rule. First, as you face all of this there will be some morning. Second, as you detach emotionally from the drama queen, you will not be hoovered into her self made tornado that she steps into and plays the victim of so often. Third, this will take baby steps as first and she will get angry as H for you not being her obedient child, but you are her respectful adult daughter now. Fourth, as you detach by setting boundaries, you will get more of your life back. The only person that you can control ultimately is yourself and putting yourself on a healthy path not matter what she does or does not do. I wish you well. There is a list of statements about detaching somewhere on this thread. Please go and read it.

termite1teresa, I would bet she has always been like this. I am speaking from experience here when I say she will never change. When you have a narcissistic parent, sibling, spouse, or whatever, they do not see their narcissism. They don't think beyond their needs or wants. You do not count as far as they are concerned.

I have read several books and many websites about narcissistic parents and was shocked and enlightened. The steps to save yourself will depend on you. What you want to do. You can keep your distance either physically or emotionally. Whichever works for you. I read Children of the Self Absorbed by Nina Brown and it was helpful. Also, I really liked The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson. The more you know the more you will understand there is nothing you can do to change her.

Don't feel guilty about anything anymore, this is something they just thrive on. And the negative talk, just leave and tell her why. Good luck, read alot and over time I hope you can see what is going on with her. And be careful taking her into your home, she will kill you with the negativity.

I just learned from my therapist this year that I am in your situation, too. I have been jerked around and hurt my entire life by a narcissistic mother. My therapist has suggested that I distance myself to a point that my mother knows she can call me if she truly needs me, but I should remove myself immediately if she is on one of her "rants" and tell her why I am walking out. It is very hard to change a lifetime of behaving one way, but it is nice to know that I have the right to be treated with kindness. Please vent whenever you need to. It seems so many of us are in the same situation. Take care, Rebecca

My mom, with full-time sitters at home, was spending so much money that there would be nothing for future needs if she stayed there. She is in an assisted living facility close to me, but begs to go home, saying that there are plenty of people who would take care of her at home. That's not true. The visits she claims to have gotten regularly were sporatic at best, as were the phone calls from friends. She sits in her room, as she did on her "throne" at home, complaining about being lonely, not having anyone around who cares about her. Her sitters waited on her as if she were a queen and she expected others to do the same. Her health deteriorated as a result. I have given up trying to get her to eat in the dining room; she doesn't want to be around "those people", she might become "like them." I don't even enjoy being around her any more. I feel guilty if I don't stay at least an hour, but I am tired of hearing her complain. I am the one who did EVERYTHING for her, doctors appointments, grocery shopping, all errands, even though I live 1 1/2 hours away. I have had to threaten my brother and gently encourage my sister into helping, but I would still be the one who endangered my life rushing to the regular emergencies. I left for 3 weeks for a trip out of the country and hoped that she would be happy to see me. I was met with pleas and complaints the moment I returned. Specific suggestions would be appreciated.

Pinkfelines4 (I love that), you really made me sit up with your comment "maybe if I wasn't here you'd be better off." Oh, my. I think my Mother just moved into your house. When I try to talk to her about any of her elder planning she always comments, "well maybe I will just drop dead." I mean, really, wouldn't we all like to just go out in a flash? But that is her way of trying to make me feel guilty for asking her how the heck I am going to be able to take care of her if she doesn't plan properly. Just ridiculous. But this is part of the narcissistic behavior.

pinkfelines4, your mother is a queen of emotional blackmail with the guilt trips she puts you on and yes in her mind you exist only for her and her needs. She would probably not mind at all if your husband was gone for that would free you up even more just for her. A daughter that does not want to take her aged mother home to live with her is a daughter who has been abused by a narcissistic or borderline mother. You've spent you whole life trying to achieve an unreachable dream of pleasing her and making her secure. You didn't make her how she is. You can't fix her. Nor can you can control her. All you really can do is chose a healthier path for yourself plus you and your husband together despite if she picks a healthier path or not. To do all of this might need the help of your seeing a therapist for those emotional blackmail buttons were planted deep in you long ago by your mother. A few days back on this thread, I shared some information about detaching which I hope you will look back to find. Her statement about your being better off without her is both trying to inflict guilt but also a means of hoovering you back into your drama. I'm glad you have a supportive husband for some would say enough of this and be gone or say your mother must go for your sanity and for our own well being. I wish you well in this battle.

P:

Part of a narcissist's arsenal is making others feel guilty. It's all about her, so she's conditioned you to cater to her every whim. Don't you feel the need to make it up to her somehow whenever she throws a tantrum? She's a legend in her own mind; a diva. "All that" and a bag of chips. A little pressure, a scene in public, and you fold.

The way I see it, you have 3 choices: (1) keep bowing to Her Highness for the rest of your life; (2) make the divorce official; and (3) put on your "reading" glasses and give her a reality check that will make her head spin.

For more tips, surf the Web for Lisa E. Scott's "Surviving a Narcissist -- A Path Forward." Good luck my friend.

Wow, I thought I was the only one dealing with a demanding and manipulative mother who knows how to push the guilt buttons! When I speak up for myself (on rare occasions) the reaction I get is "well maybe if I wasn't here you'd be better off." How do you deal with that kind of game playing? Mum is almost 91 and in pretty good health but gets herself worked into a panic attack and makes herself sick because she doesn't want to live alone. What kind of a daughter wouldn't have her mother move in.....that's what I'm dealing with now. We tried it for two weeks and we were tripping over each other, had no privacy, Mum wanted to know where I was when I was late coming home etc. Mum is a very unhappy and negative person and I myself am on antidepressants since I lost my Dad so I don't need any more negativity in my life. I'm really backed into a corner and don't know what to do. She told her friend that she only wanted to live with me. I've tried all my life to make her life happy and secure, but now I'm losing myself in all of this. It's like I exist only to take care of her. I am now the only one left ( I lost my brother last year) and It's taking it's toll on my health. My husband is very understanding and supportive, but I know having Mum and the dog move in is not his first choice! I'm at my wit's end................

maggiesue, Google how to disengage with parent. It is hard. To totally disengage you break all contact. You may not want to do that. Personally, it is my dream. Just walk into the sunset and never look back. I may do it yet. I think Mom is narcissistic enough to push me just that far and I think it is coming soon.

To emotionally disengage you have to just not care, not one bit. Now to me that would be harder to do than to just walk away. If you can pull that off that would probably be best. But I have no idea how to get to that point.

I stopped talking to my Mom for 6 months. She had hurt me so much. My brother would tell her everytime he saw her, "call your child." Finally after 6 months she called me. Did I get an appology? No. Did she admit she had lied about me? No. She just started talking about her shopping adventures, old relatives, my brother's new house, anything except the elephant in the room. I got off the phone depressed and realized she will never change.

So I have changed, she knows it and my brother knows it. I am just one more nasty comment from a "divorce". They just don't know it is coming. Good luck

After a lot of experimentation, I have found that boundaries are the only way to deal with my narcissistic mother. She sees me as a means to an end rather than as a daughter. Consequently, since I am only one step up from a machine, she will use me until I break. When I realized that, I backed way off. I only see her once a week and say very little when I'm there. She always has a list of household tasks for me to perform, so it's easy to stay away from her.

The other valuable lesson I have learned is that when I back off she finds someone else to do her bidding. She has a marvelous talent for that. People are attracted to her like magic. But they don't last.

I am interested in the divorce your parent idea. I have thought that it would be nice to send her on down the road and whereas I've had experience like that with a husband, I'm not sure how to do it with a parent. If it can be done I'd like to know how.

Hugs to all... my mom was relocated to a dementia facility in December...now her "true personality" is coming out in the last few weeks.... unlike the "oh, she is always pleasant, smiling, happy, wish all patients were like her" ... that I heard the last few months.... narcissism then add dementia on top of it.... wow, welcome to the world I have lived with.... but at least she is in a safe enviroment and cannot wander anymore.

drpearliej, vent away, just vent away.........

In my earlier post, I stated, "that my aunt will do things for herself, what I meant to say is that she will not do things for herself"

I take care of my 86 year old Aunt. She has been diagnosed with early signs of dementia, however, the doctor said that some of the behavior she exhibits is personality and manipulative. She comes off as very sweet, not argumentive, but she will do do things for herself, such as, wash her own clothes, get her own food even if it is cooked and sitting on the stove, we now administer her medicine, she won't ask for anything that she needs; I have to second guess what she needs or wants. One day, I helped her to organize her closet and I found some of my clothes, some are new, I asked her how they go in there, she said she didn't know. She spreads up my bed daily, so I guess she takes them then.

She will stay back in her room all day until she is called, and if you don't, she will lie about eating. She has lost a lot of weight.

When I take her to the doctor, she will not talk, she just sits there with her head down. So they just look to me to answer the questions. She depends on me for everything! I don't mind helping her do things she cannot do, but she doesn't even try now.

She believes that the characters on television are talking to her, so she thinks they are real. One day she storms out of the house said she was going to visit the man who lives behind my house and got very upset when my son tried to stop her. She apparently got upset because I was talking to one of my lifelong friends whom I haven't heard from over 15 years. She eavesdrop on my conversations, so it is possible that she overheard me telling my friend about me taking care of her. She doen't interpret things realistically.

I finally got her primary care doctor to refer her to counseling. To my surprise, she liked him. During the initial interview, she lied about most of the things he asked her about, and seem proud to announce that we do everything for her. I was seething! I am not so much looking for advice, I am just venting.

OMG, I am also 64 years old and have a mother with narcisistic personality disorder. My parents were married for 62 years, and my father died four years ago. I had a very hard time doing it but finally got to a good place in my life living about 15 miles away from my controlling mother, was in contact with her but emotionally detached. Then, she needed me. I have only one sister who has limited contact with my mother, so when my mother's health failed, I was elected to move in with her and did so one year ago. This past year has been bloody hell because of who and what she is and because I no longer buy into the drama and guilt trips.

As was said, you need to live your own life and detach emotionally. It is not easy but practice, practice, practice until you get it, and you will! At the moment, my mother's dementia has become worse, and last night she started an ultimate guilt trip. She went to the ER saying she had fallen and could not get up. When the ER wanted to release her, she refused to get up, so they have admitted her. This will backfire, of course, and I will authorize her release to a rehab and then to an Alzheimer's unit of an assisted living facility. Then, I will give up my new career as caregiver and have a life once again. You never know what life can hand you. Hang in there! Janet

so she keeps calling and I dont want to talk to her because I know it will end up in a fight-plus I have nothing to say to her. And oh she never leaves a message and she knows how. So after about the third time-I end up answering. She does all the talking-I say hardly nothing. Its llike she dont get it. Now she is trying to get out of her first therapy session because the retirment village will need to take her and she dont want to pay them. I know she is wanting me to go and take here which will not happen. I had already agreed to take her and even made the appointment and she told me refused to go. She has since then made her own appointment. She can more than afford to pay someone but will say she cant afford to. What she can afford is cigarettes. lottery and scratch off tickets. Sorry just needed to vent. I REFUSE to give in to her.

playagrandma, it is a lot to take in. It is for anyone in a relationship with a person who has a narcissistic personality disorder or a borderline personality disorder. Boundaries is the key thing.

Along with using the phrase from the Bible which Christina quotes to inflict fear, obligation and guilt, the NT verses about showing one's faith by taking care of widows in the family.

However, when you include what the Bible has to say about marriage, children, and loving others as oneself, these two verses do not mean it is expected to martyr oneself; to love oneself less than the person you are caring for; to allow a marriage to fall apart as if at some point we are to leave our spouses and cleave to our parents until death do we part; or to abandon our children and make them victims of being thrown under the bus. Nor is any mention made of having to take care of them in your or their house or having to do it all personally and directly yourself. Biblically speaking, obeying our parents is something we do when we are a child, but honoring them-treating them with respect is something we do for a lifetime. With some, about all that you can respect is the fact that they are your biological parent because otherwise they missed the boat due to their being abusive, etc. For those in that situation, we treat with respect as a fellow human being and that in itself and be very difficult at times. This is where detachment comes in because by this point they are not going to change and become the parent that they never were.

People with narcissism or borderline personality disorder can and do sometimes use phrases, out of context, from the Bible to inflict fear, obligation and guilt

Keep putting one foot ahead of the other, taking one step at a time in detaching and you will find less life sucked right out of you by their drama; your buttons pushed so easily, and walking on eggshells less around them. They are not going to like it, but at some point you have to be like that Navy Admiral who said "D the torpedoes and full speed ahead."

Bless you for the quick response. I was just talking to my aunt(moms sister)-she was wondering why we contiue to allow this woman to treats us like we do. Although she is the younger of the and I am the oldest of the five-its like we feel like we have this responsiblity not to abandon her-like her mother did. The aunt years ago, gathered all info she could about her mom-why she left and what happened to her. She had died but my aunt found out this woman from talking to others including at least one ex husband-that she also had a narisstic personality as did this womans sister. My aunt that point buried her in her mind and moved on. But I agree on step at a time and right now is back off and then figure out the boundries. Thanks again for all your support. I am sure you will hear from me again. Have a fun peaceful weekend

Plays, it is a lot to take in. Mr cmag is very thorough. Most important thing is boundaries-- what is healthy for a person to live with and put up with in another.
The phrase from the Bible about "honoring one 's parents", is often difficult to interpret as well. Manmade guilt seems to get in the way of us seeing and doing what is adequate and or necessary.
No one--man, woman, child-- in any relationship of any combination of the three, no matter what the position on the family tree of life should have to accept abuse in any form from another. If anything in a relationship makes you feel bad, do the absolute minimum to fulfill your responsibilty, legally and morally, then cut bait.
From a life of programming and accepting it as ' that's the way it is' to deciding to do what is better for YOU is a great life lesson. You can do it, and we all support you. One step at a time, dear one.

I read this over several times and I guess I am confused. Was that meant for me or my narisstic mother? I am just not understanding, I guess I get the last four points but before that just not grasping all of it. But thanks for taking the time to post all that and I will go back again and see what I am missing

Earlier today, I promised to post some information on detachment.

This is clipped from Tools for dealing with control issues/learning how to detach).

In order to become detached from a person, place, or thing you need to:..:

First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person, place, or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or codependent on.

Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places, or things which in the past you have given power to affect your emotional well-being. 

Third: "Hand over'' to your Higher Power the persons, places, and things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot change on your own. 

Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need'' to fix, change, rescue, or heal other persons, places, and things. 

Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick'' and "unhealthy'' to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal, or rescue another person, place, or thing if they do not want to get better nor see a need to change. 

Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky clean'' and a "role model'' of health in order for another to recognize that there is something ``wrong'' with them that needs changing. 

Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel. 

Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings, and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places, or things you can blame for your unhealthiness. 

Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are ``sick'' behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your relationship to persons, places, and things.

Tenth: Accept that many people, places, and things in your past and current life are "irrational,'' "unhealthy,'' and "toxic'' influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.

Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life. 

Twelfth: Practice "letting go'' of the need to correct, fix, or make better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no control or power to change.

Personally, in place of the phrase "your higher power", I put God. I hope this list is helpful.

There are two more things that I want to add that I did not write. These have more to do with relating with someone who has borderline personality disorder, but they are useful elsewhere.

(SET)Support - Empathy - Truth

Support refers to an initial statement, which indicates the loved one supports the person. It is a statement that begins with "I" and demonstrates concern and a desire to help. It can be anything that establishes a foundation for the relationship or interaction: "I want to try to help you feel better," "I care about you," or "I am worried about how you are feeling."

The support statement is meant to reassure the person that the relationship is a safe one, and that his/her needs matter even during this difficult moment.

Empathy refers to communicating that the loved one is trying to understand what the person is feeling, and focuses on "you." It is not a conveyance of pity or sympathy, but instead a true awareness and validation of the feelings of the BP: "I see you are angry, and I understand how you can get mad at me," "How frustrating this must be for you."

It is important not to tell the person how he is feeling, but instead put his demonstrated feelings into words. The goal is to convey a clear understanding of the uncomfortable feelings he is having and that they are OK to have, thus validating his feelings. Without such a statement of empathy, the person may feel that his feelings are not understood. It is important to use feeling words, as in the examples above.

Truth refers to a realistic and honest assessment of the situation and the person's role in solving the problem. It is an objective statement that focuses on the "it" -- not on the subjective experience of the person or yourself. Often the person may seem to be asking, or demanding, something impossible, not taking an active role or responsibility in resolving the issue, or even presenting you with a "no-win" situation. The truth statement is meant to clearly and honestly respond to the difficult demand or behavior of the person, while placing responsibility appropriately: "This is what I can do.," "This is what will happen.," "Remember when this happened before and how you felt so bad about it later."

It is important to use the support and empathy statements first, so that the person is better able to hear what you are saying, otherwise the truth statement may be experienced as little more than another, and expected, rejection creating even more defensiveness or anger.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
PUVAS
(use for complaining and/or blaming)

- Pay attention
- Understand fully
- Validate emotions
- Assert yourself
- Shift/Share the Responsibility

Paying attention to what is happening and what is being said helps us avoid making assumptions.

Understanding what someone is trying to communicate may require seeking clarification so we don't make assumptions.

Validating the emotional statements of the other person will pave the way for further smooth communications.

Asserting yourself is a form of setting boundaries and is a very important piece of the healthy communication process.

Shifting responsibility where it belongs holds each party accountable for their own feelings and behaviors. This can be in response to four different scenarios...

1.) If your person is blaming you for his or her feelings and behaviors
2.) If you are placing blame on yourself inappropriately
3.) If you are trying to fix their problem
4.) If you recognize that you have done something to contribute to the problem.

Misery loves company and these people have to drag you down to their level of misery, IF you are going to be around them, that is.

They can't stand to have people around that are happier than they are. How dare you!

Oh I hate the playing favoritism thing. Had that done to me and still having it done. Your poor son. Hope he can deal with this because it will never change. It is her mental illness not his fault. He needs to understand that. Take care

Grandma, the best way to deal with a dysfunctional parent is how you would deal with a neighbor's barking dog. First, put up a fence to keep it from trespassing and crapping on your property. This also keeps it from biting you. You might try being nice to it, but you choose how much energy to put into that before ignoring the dog becomes your best option. On the one hand, your mother built the bed you can now make her lie in. On the other hand, most dysfunctional people had their dysfunctions abused into them. Compassion for her is not unjustified, but martyrdom is. Give your mother the time, support and affection you can afford, and take control of how you react to how she reacts. Reward good behavior, ignore counterattack after protecting yourself. Find the tools to support yourself. Do your best and let that be good enough. Good Luck. God Bless You.

well I sure know they never change. I am not sure I can force myself to stay away. Only because she can make everyones life miserable if just one of us get out of line. As for right now, for the weekend-I refuse to answer my phone if she calls and will not be seeing in the near future. Not sure how long that thought will last. Its a struggle and all the family really think she will outlive all of us. I am sure she will outlive me.

playagrandma, Can you force yourself to stay away from her? Don't go over until she really needs you to help her with something. It is a crime what we allow mentally ill people do to us. Wastes so much valuable time when we can be around family and friends who validate us, appreciate us, love us.
Narcissists never change. They do not miraculously become the Mother you wished for! Some characteristics get worse, some disappear, but there will come a time when she will not be as combative or manipulative--as mine is at 94. Some, however, find a way to manipulate us all the way to the grave, and we are the only ones suffering.

well my mother takes too many meds yet in general is very healthy for a woman her age. She refuses to listen to the dr or as a matter of fact anyone. As for the grandkids, I will just tell you about my two. She made sure she was at our daughters baptism, first commuion, dance recitals etc etc. Our son-forget it. You see I have a brother 14 years younger than me and she resented me having a son. The final straw for my son is when she didnt show when he graduated from chiropratic school and convinced my dad not to get yet turned around a flew to our daughters graduation from nurses school-which my father should not have attened as it was in july -in atlanta-way too hot and my dad had a heart conditon. Needless to say my son has 0 contact with her and I cant blame him

Playagrandma, we surely are related. My brother married a school teacher, with a master's, his son, who was born so premature we weren't sure what he would turn out to be, graduated from a large and well known university. Works for a college in his home town. Me I married a professional guy with a degree, two girls are RNs with a bachelor's from a top 50 college and my oldest is Ivy League Educated Attorney in Boston, married to a wonderful man who is also a lawyer, no one ever did drugs or any trouble ever. She complains about something all of the time, just can't be happy. Didn't go to one single granduation of her grandkids, "just not able". Didn't attend her granddaughter's wedding, "just not able". This is a woman who has no illnesses, takes no meds. and never goes to a doctor. Still drives and does, every day to go shopping. This is all a pattern that these people take. It is called....All About Me.