How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

I got caught yesterday. I visit my mother every Sunday and pay her bills among other things. She is very close about her finances and after two or three years she let me write checks for the bills without her supervision. She signs them of course. I file the receipts and take the checks the post office on my way home. I keep it all in good order. I guess I got proud of the fact that I could do this for my mother. At some level I thought I was special in her eyes.

I should know better. There are no excuses. I've lived around this narcissist over 60 years. Anyway when I got the checkbook out to pay the bills yesterday I saw that the yardman had been writing checks for her. I was deeply hurt and let her know. She of course told me it was her checkbook and she could do what she wanted with it.

I felt like my soul was damaged and I needed to heal it. I've been that way so many times in my life. I went home and pulled myself together. My dog is loyal and loving. I call him the healing hound. It's funny how an animal can be more loyal than your own mother.

I always talk the good talk about setting boundaries and putting on the game face and then I get blindsided like this. I can never protect myself from her totally. There are always unconscious ties that she can exploit. From experience I know she will probably attempt to capitalize on my vulerability and hurt me more. I expect next week to find that the yardman has already taken care of all the bills.

I need to detach. They are her bills, finances, money. She can do what she wants with all that. This is just another slice off the loaf of my affection for her. I haven't let go completely. How disappointing.

thought I would share this with you cause I got a chuckle out of it. Mom told her sister and my middle brother that she has started going to line dancing classes. Of course thats good but I chuckled cause this comes from a woman that is claiming to be so sick all the time and complains she never does anything but sits in her apartment 24/7 LOL! She isnt calling everyday-called yesterday, she talks-I listen. So far so good! Just waiting now for her next meltdown. Have a good week everyone.

sharynmarie, so well put. Thank you.

Why is it that aging mother's seem to be so difficult with their families? playagrandma, my mother also has a personality disorder (schizoid personality). She has always been abusive, distrustful, paranoid and most importantly...she is never wrong. When I was in my twenties, I realized my mother would never love or accept me. I was her personal property to treat as she wanted for her own needs. That was a turning point for me where I was able to disengage from her on an emotional basis. This is not the same as divorcing her but it protects you from being hurt because you can now love yourself and accept yourself. Disengaging emotionally from her means you no longer need her to love you. When you reach that point, dealing with her is so much easier. You will have to stand up for yourself, set boundaries and stick to it. I also hold her accountable for the things she says and does. She does not hurt me anymore because I have no emotional attachment, I only do what I have to do to provide for her care and see that she can be independent. It takes practice doing this but it works. My sister is only now learning how to do this with out mother. My sister has spent her 59 years enabling our mother's behavior and she has suffered for it because she wanted to be loved by our mother. Believe me, my mother is incapable of living anyone. People with personality disorders manipulate others for their own needs. They can not empathize or feel anything for another person because their world is all about themselves. I may sound harsh but for you to persevere and protect your emotional well being. Emotionally detaching requires that you change many of your attitudes, beliefs and behaviors. Detaching is not about enabling your abuser; it’s about disarming your abuser by eradicating her or his ability to hurt you. There is a great many books and articles out on this subject. God Bless you and I hope you find peace in all that is going on around you.

playagrandma, my family lives in Alabama. The tornadoes of last spring were so horrific that the people of Alabama will never be the same. I am so glad that more people were not hurt or killed in Southern Illinois. I am glad your loved ones are fine. Spring is going to be nasty this year. I live in Florida. We are just waiting for that big hurricane that is surely coming. The weather is just getting crazy.

sunflo the only problem with doing nice things for her, I dont feel like rewarding her for her actions towards me. My brothers have a system and I think its best I try that. My youngest brother who lives the closest gets her every Monday and takes her to dinner. My sister-in-law works late on Mondays-his girls are in college and he has to eat. My oldest brother-was going every thursday but she managed to tick him off so now its the first and third thursday of the month. My middle tries to get her also twice a month-on a weekend. All three arent with her more than a couple of hours. Its not like she dont have many chances to go out to dinner-the retirement center has a van that takes the residents at least once a week to a restaurant. My concern right now isnt how to make her happy but that she is taking her meds properly and take note of how this confusion and forgetfulness is getting. Hey everyone have a good weekend. I have so much to be thankful for. My son and wife live in southern illinois and so greatful that they are okay and no damage to their house. It was a devastating day yesterday and my heart goes out all the families that lost loved ones and lost everything

You are at least in a good situation where she is in a care facility. I empathize with you that you "can't divorce her"...no matter the abuse; she's your mom and you obviously don't want to turn your back -- I can't either with my own. BUT you can set boundaries. You should visit at her "most pleasant times" and figure out what that is "a sunday morning"; Fri evening for dinner; etc. and just visit at those times for shorter period (an hour). I would advise short visits more often for quality time vs longer visits where you both try each others patience. Try to have dinner at the dining room where others will be around and you can engage all in conversation. Still time spent with her but you aren't one-on-one where you have to make yourself crazy. And if a visit happens to be a bad day -- or the conversation turns sour; leave and say you'll be back later. She isn't going to change; but you need to keep your mental health positive. Hope this helps.

Bubbles, the answer is no. They are never wrong, you will just be spinning your wheels. I tell people about the website daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com. It is really good for identifying the crazy behaviors that ALL narcissists seem to have. After you read that and many of the links, there are several good books you can read. One is by Nina Brown. By the time you finish with this you will know what you are dealing with and somewhat how to deal with them.

It helps to know that the traits you see do occur over and over with other people as well. So it is not just your Mom's funny personality but a real personality problem or disorder. And finally, you will learn there is nothing you can do about it but learn to deal with it yourself in several ways.

It is maddening and frustrating. I have lived in disbelief for many years with the reactions and lack of empathy my mom has shown me. I am no closer to making her change today than I was five years ago when our problems came to a head. But, I have changed and for the better. I am emotionally disengaging. You will learn about that too. And yes, after time, you will find it easier and easier to do. Take care.

Bubbles from my experience trying to reason with a narcissist is like talking to a brick wall. They dont listen to anything, it will always be someone else fault and everything is about them. I continue to strugge everyday. She has been calling everything and today was not exception. She had my brother cart her to the ER yesterday. I thought the family decided that if she needs to go the hospital she can call for an ambulance and its serious. then one of the kids can be called. She is currently dealing with high blood pressure. The problem is the same brother had her at the drs on monday and he adjusted her medication. I am sure the dr is getting fed up and even the er doctor recognized her and told her she didnt to give her meds time to work. In other words, if had been has high as she claimed, she would be in the hospital. She knows she can get attention by pulling these tactics. I am letting her talk-I say very little. The less said the better off I am.

Thank you Madge and Austin! I called this evening and had a nice conversation with dad, when mom came on the phone, I did most of the talking about being ready for the trip etc. and she would only give short one word answers in her "matter of fact tone". I just carried on about things I was doing for the trip, it was a bit hard, I could feel the anxiety setting in, but I pushed through it, told her I would be by Friday to drop off our itinerary's etc. I closed off the conversation that I was going to make dinner and that I'll see you guys on Friday......
At times my inside voice wants to say "when you are over your hissy fit we can talk then"....I'm beginning to realize that you can't reason with a narcissist, but is there any way to "put them in their place to show that they are acting like kids??" Or am I just asking for more trouble??

Thank you so very much for the advice! I will certainly do that! I have never been able to talk to anyone who is going through the same thing I am...I actually feel some relief!

Also, Tilda, I have for years believed my brother was "a better person". But unfortunately he is much like Mom and Dad. Both my parents were narcissistic. Dad was actually much worse than Mom. My brother, like yours, has learned alot of the same characteristics. He loves to be the Big Guy, in charge, but has let me know, I will be the one to help him. However, he keeps financial secrets from me. This is how Mom set things up and he fell right into it. Too bad. Yes, Karma will get those two.

playagrandma, didn't change anything for me either. My comments were directed at Bubble, but I am sure you have experienced the same thing. It just doesn't pay to act like any of their nonsense bothers you because they don't care.

I want to address this pill issue. The phamasict sets up her pills for her every week and are delivered to her. But I think she is still getting confused or not doing what she is suppose to do. She has told me she skips pills because she doesnt need them-she told me she has taken two pills when she should only take one a day. She is taking two anti-depressants and these are the pills she abuses. What makes me mad is that I told the nurse this and there was no reponse. And madge that not talking to her for months as been done before with her with other members of the family. It really dont change things with her. Like I said I am just going day by day.

Bubbles, just call and act like nothing happened. It is maddening. My Mom hurt my feeling by lying about me, again, and I stopped talking to her for 6 months. After 6 glorious months, she called and acted like nothing ever happened, ignored the elephant in the room. That is how narcissistic people function. Do the same to her or she will have you dancing to her tune forever.

If you feel you must call make it short and if she gives you atitude just say goodby and hang up. She will have time to think about her actions while you are away-she will not change until she realizes what she is doing can bite her-you can only control how you act not her-she has to learn how to treat others and when what she is doing no longer works she will change.

I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one who suffers with guilt from a narcissistic mother. I'm going through it as we speak, we were at my mom and dads place on the Friday for dinner as it was my dads birthday, I had asked my dad if they would like to have lunch at our place on Sunday (just this past weekend) as my husband and I are leaving for a 3 week vacation this coming Saturday. I phoned my mother Sunday morning to confirm lunch at noon but that I had forgotten about a birthday celebration at a friends place for Sunday afternoon, I mentioned to mother that we'll need to leave around 2 to 2:30 for the party, and thats when it started.....It was all about her being a priority and not having to leave because we had plans, so now she feels that they are "imposing and being an inconvenience" in her snarky guilt ridden way. She had called a half our later and told my husband that they couldn't make it for lunch as they got a late start of the day and hadn't done any of their errands. At this point, my mind was racing a mile a minute wondering why and the guilt was becoming overwhelming...I called and spoke with dad and suggested they come for dinner this Friday (day before we leave) as I have the day off. Dad mentioned this to mom and she said she'll call back. She did call back and said "no" that they will not be coming over for dinner as they don't like to drive in the dark (it was never a problem before) then went on to say in her "matter of fact voice" , " we'll do it another time so have a nice day...goodbye"..and hung up.
After reading many of these posts, I've learnt to not let it bother me as that is what they want, they want you to feel bad.
I will need to call them before we leave, should I act as if nothing has happened and that I'm happy about our trip, make it sound like her attitude never effected me? What if she still gives me the "cold" treatment?

You did the right thing in trying to get her help-the nurse had no right to pull an atitude-taking her meds right is a big thing. I got two containers from the drug store and one as a gift -so I can put my meds for the week -some have two compartments and some have 3 or 4-then you can seperate the morning and afternoom pills for each day-maybe your brother could set it up for her for a week-since she trieds to give you a hard time as my mother does with me about things -your brother should do this-you are right to be concerned about her meds. I am going to visit my sister who lives near my Mom-I do not stay with my Mom-she tries to treat me like I am 6 yrs old again and has me in tears-from following AC and reading about mothers I now realize I am not the problem-I do not argue because of her age-I do not want to get her upset and her have a heart attack so I just try to let her digs go in one ear and out the other and try not to be with her alone-she can turn it on and off depnding who is around-she has almost tried to hit me twice the last couple of years. It is not your fault your mother calls the doc so often-I hope sometime you can relay to the doc or his other nurses how rude this nurse has been to you.

thanks austin and everyone. She called today. So whats new-sick again. Then she tells me she is so sorry for the way she has been treating me. I just told her I was tired of it and what did she think I was suppose to say when she called telling me things that were none of my business. She said I could just listen and I said no-I wasnt programmed just to listen. I also told her that she was sorry today but that would change the next time, I said or did something that made her mad. As time went on, it become apparent she is terribly confused on her meds. Righ nowt at least she seems to understand that I am not going to let her get the higher hand this time. She is not that sick. She has a sinus infection and her blood pressure was on the high side but my baby brother took her to the dr. Because I think she is getting more confused especially regarding her medications, I called the drs office. I did find out what I needed to know but this nurse was very cold. The other two I have talked to was very helpful. My husand suspects that nurse is propbably tired of my mom always calling there which is about once or twice a week. I told the nurse that I thought it getting close to the time where someone would need to start monitoring and giving her the meds everyday. This nurse I talked to sorta upset me. Maybe my mom is right-maybe I go overboard. But I am the only one of the family that is concerned on her taking her own meds.

Playa I am proud of you from the time you posted your question-not many days ago you have learned to detatch very well -you are not getting into her crazieness-I had to learn that also first with my husband -I was able to take back my power from him before he died and not long ago I made plans to visit my mother for a very short visit and when my sister asked why to was comming on a Thur and leaving on the next Tue-I told her Mom drives me crazy so now my sister has me stay at her house and my exposure to Mom is limited and with other around so she can't bring me to tears with her digs-she told me I used too much of her toilet tissue -can you imagine. Do whatever you right about answering her call-if you do answer and she starts ranting you can hang up-I did that with my husband when he was in rehab-actually one of our last conversations before he died I had to cut our conversation short because of his behaivor-it did feel good to be strong.

Playa, we are so programmed to respond to every word we hear, every action we see. To do nothing is an art. Like meditation, to not have a thought, or to let so many in that soon it seems there is none. Very difficult to do, or not do.
Have you ever watched a top spinning, watched it randomly travel, and you wonder when it will stop and where it will land? Or flames burning in a fireplace?
It is something we can observe, but we cannot direct. We are detached from it.
There comes a time we must finally see people in a new light. There is no arguing with a crazy person, a drunk, or someone with dementia. It is not an equal argument. What is the point, anyway? They don't realize there is something wrong with them, but we do. Try to grasp this. Maybe take a day and force yourself to NOT respond, react, argue, or figure it out. See how you feel at the end of the day. Learn to say: Oh Well. You are on a carousel and it's not going anywhere but around. Jump off. You can do it. Form a new habit with your well-being at heart.

everyday is getting better but still there is this urge to try and help her. Her of course is mom-a name I dont want to her call her anyway. She tells me to mind my own busiess, I am going overboard with my help, accusing me of having her meds changed. But yet she will call me and tell me how she is feeling and its never good-but I am suppose to shut my mouth and nothing? No matter what I say or dont say will be held against me. If I try and help then I am told to mind my own business-if I dont say anything witll then I dont care. Right now according to my youngest brother she has a sinus infection and the dr has her taking an antibodic. I know she is okay so I am not going to call her. If she should call, I will answer. Or should I ?

I have not read all the posts here so I may be repeating what others have said -but start by saying to yourself over and over again I DO NOT DESERVE TO BE TREATED THIS WAY-I did with the husband and the sky did not fall the first time I calmly did not do his bidding and after a while I got stronger-you will never have a cozy tenderhearted Mom I had to believe that of my Mom and as cmag has said you need to detach yourself from her-my mother can still bring me to tears and I am 71yrs old. You can not fix her and it is not YOUR JOB to make her happy. Keep in touch and your experiences and actions will help others-we may be long lost sisters.

I loved Tilda's post, too. Like you, Maggiesue, I spent years speaking up and trying to get some satisfaction with my family. Now, as I wrote in another post, because I cannot understand her words, yet can still hear the indignation, I respond in a gentle, reassuring way. Sometimes, I simply say,"everything is all right, Mother. Don't worry about that. We are all doing the best we can." Often, she calms down and will say what I think is,"That's right." Simple is better. Positive is easier.
There is enough other stuff going on in the world-- like politics and international upheaval--to stress us out. If each of us could make our own world more peaceful, perhaps it would seem the world was at peace.
Thanks again, Tilda, for your calming perspective. We need it here:) xo

Tilda, I loved your post. I like what you said about their toxic world and to get into it would be to become like they are. I've said argumentative and hurtful comments when I've tried to to talk to my narcissistic mother. It's so frustrating to try to communicate with people with this disorder and it's easy to slip down to their level. But it only adds fuel to their fire.

Also I to have noticed the narcissistic tendencies that Dickens writes about. Masterpiece Theatre last Sunday was the Old Curiosity Shop. The father deserted the family and the gambling addicted grandfather took over raising the children. The young girl finally died rather than continue living with her black hole relations.

The other day I saw "Now Voyager"with Betty Davis...and even though I had seen it before...since my mother died, I have been able to see a lot more clearly and with a less emotional response.

My mamma was for sure a Narcissist...and unfortunately raised my brothers with a lot of defense mechanisms...so they are both bullies and have continued her work of ripping into me whenever they get a chance. Their wives mock and ridicule me and my children with a spite that makes the blood grow cold. They have no idea how crewel they are...for they are driven by an internal insecurity and arrogance which just clouds any love there may be to and from them.

There seems to be an epidemic of these types of late. It also is interesting that my mamma was a religious pontificate, both my brothers are atheists and their wives also. They ridicule my faith and my belief in God.

My therapist...yes I have to have one in order to deal with the crazy people in my world....suggests I avoid as much interaction as possible with them and to find myself a new "family" He pointed out that I may love them for they are my relatives and I have a history with them...but I do not have to like them, nor do I have to keep trying to show them that I am loveable. It is because they see me confident that they abuse me at every turn. It is because I have internal peace and enjoy the little things that they taunt me....My very being gets on their last nerve...the only way to get into their world is to become as toxic as they are...To forgive them for they know not what they do is the only way to keep them in my world...

I must also learn to detach with love...and leave Karma to do the rest. Keeping at them to get them to love me is a waste of time and life. They are in a dark cave and do not want my light...their eyes would not allow them to see..for they live in darkness.

It truly is sad that mamma passed on her ability to control and demean and bully on to them...and they willingly have adopted it as a better way to live. They see kindness as a weakness and gentle forgiveness as a personal failure. They can't forgive anyone anything and hold on to their self righteous indignation over the slightest thing...it is impossible to have fun for long with such as these...no matter how charming they are and how apparently manipulative they can be....after a while the snake always comes in for the kill.

I made a collage of this called.."Everyone I love is charming"...for they fool everyone with the appearance of love but the sting of hate, jealousy and revenge once they get close.

My younger brother, who I thought was one who "flew over the coo coos nest" became so enraged over a comment I made to a friend ....so enraged was he that he threatened me and refuses to make any amends, even though I have apologized, though it truly is he that owes me an apology, he invests in his anger so he can feel justified in squandering my portion of the profits from the sale of my mammas house. I have no pension, no income and am disabled now, after a lifetime of giving to the family. He is very wealthy and has a powerful position, they lack for nothing financially, yet they are not happy...for if they were they could not enjoy hurting others so.

He said.."Whatever happens from this point on you brought on yourself." These words were the exact same from my mom when she would find insidious and crewel ways to punish me when I was a child and so hungry for acceptance.

His cruelty was hidden till after my mom died. He needed me to be her caretaker so he manipulated me with his charm and pretended to respect me..The moment she died and I asked for his help with all the paperwork and financial burdens he took over, pushed me aside and now is stealing the little left me.

This he did while I was under psychiatric care from a breakdown. So you see....there is an insidiousness not virtue in toxic selfishness...especially when God is left out. Dickens wrote about such people in his novels....and they walk among us for sure.

well here we go again. She called an left a message. She is so sick and wanted me to know. She called my brother yesterday and she said she isnt sleeping and has diaherra. I am not returning the call. She has made it plain I was to mind my own business. So why is she calling me-I just cant understand what she thinks I am to do. I hope I am doing the right thing and ignore her.

starwings thats for the support. Currently her meds are delivered to her in a pill box that the pharamist sets up for. I am not 100% sure this is even working and trying to piece everything together. If and when I feel like we need to do something else, I will call her dr. I am sure she will not put up a resistance if the dr recommends that someone at the retirement village administor her meds. I really need at this point to take it one day at a time. I talked to her sister, my aunt again today and she told my aunt again that I was to stay out of her business. And thats what is going to happen at least for now. She is in a safe place and there are those that look after her. No calls today -we shall see what tomorrow brings. Have a safe and peaceful sunday-I plan too

Well, here we all are again, my husband and I and Mum and the dog. I brought her to her home for one afternoon while I was a work to "give it a try" and ended up picking her up after work and I guess the decision has been made for me that she will be staying with us and not going back to her home. I know that these panic attacks are brought on because she doesn't want to be alone but the physical effects end her up in the emergency room. So right now my only choice is to give her what she needs. I'm trying to lead a normal life by still doing my normal routine things, but I know Mum is bored. She complained today that all she does is sit in the chair all day. Can't see the TV (legally blind because of ARMD) and can't hear the TV unless it's at the volume of a jet plane engine! I just can't seem to make it comfortable for her. I've given up so much of my life trying to make her happy, I just don't know what else to do. Do I sound like a spoiled brat? I mean, our Mums cared for us and did everything for us.....Where do we draw the line? I have learned a lot from this thread and I'm starting to make boundries but this is so hard..............

It sounds like you are learning to take care of yourself so that you can be a better caretaker to your Mom. My Mom and Mother-in-law became confused about their meds and we had to start administering their medication personally. Is there anyone in the retirement community that would be willing to assist her with her meds? She will probably resent this but you could remind her that this is a way to maintain her independence.

I hope therapy is helpful, however, she has to be motivated. If you realize that this is her life and not take it personal, it might make it easier for you to deal with her if she doesn't cooperate. It may be her statement that she still has the power to decide not do what you want. I know my Mother-in-law certainly plays that tune. Good luck on Thursday...I wish you the best. I know it is frustrating, especially when if you don't have a great history with her. I had to work through some stuff with my Mom before she died. I was able to forgive her even though I didn't get her cooperation. When she did die, I had no remorse.