How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

yesterday was a bad one. My oldest brother and I went out to see our NM. We took her to lunch, then my brother did her taxes and then we were going to take her see her therapist-wait an hour for her for that and then take her home. The minute we walked into the door she started complaining. She hadnt seen or talked to my brother for 7 weeks, as he had just returned from Florida. I cannot believe how cold a person can be. She did let all day. Argued with my brother the whole time. I just kept my mouth shut because if I had said anything-it would have been a three ring circus. So after taking her to lunch and offering to wait around for her so she had a ride to see her therapist-she became outraged when she found out we were not taking to dinner after. She tells me my brother 'you may as well leave now'-so my brother who was driving and had it yet-said to me lets go, we are leaving and did. What started him off was as soon as we walked in the morning-she informs us-that she is going to take us to dinner saturday and then spend the weekend with my brother and then he will take her shopping Monday before taking her back home. OMG! She dont ask, she tells-my sister in law hates and would never allow her to spend the night let alone two. After we left, she called my baby brother-to find out if he go out and take her to dinner-since had missed his weekly visit-went out and she proceeded to tell one lie after another on what had happened earlier. And we found out that her regular dr is annoyed with her and scolded her because he suspects she is not taking her b/p-anyway that is what she said. My oldest brother is probably none with her-his wife told me is never allowed in their house again-no christmas-never. So thats what has been going on with his NM. Hey everyone have a good weekend. I am doing good-felt sorry for my brother yesterday.

i am sorry to be back so soon. After the or ordeal on thursday, not one word from her. And best to my knowledge, no one in the family has heard from her. I told my husband, either she found someone else to bug or she was plotting something. Sure enough she called today-I wont talk to her and she left a voicemail. In her most pathetic voice she says she has been out of her apartment for two days-hasnt eaten in two days-dr put her on paxil-drinking gateraide to keep up her strength. She told me this in case I find her dead I will know. OMG! I did not return her call and she has not called anyone else. I thought about calling the retirement home but my husband said that would not be a good idea. She has pulled this so many times. I did almost called her and told her is she was really thinking ot suicide-she better do it right because if she botches it-the family will put her in the nursing home. I have no idea where this is going.

Playagrandma, your mother and my mother sound so similar. My sister and I have left our mom be now for over a month because she told us to stay out of her business (Schzoid Personality Disorder and Alzheimer's). I told my sister yesterday that I was debating whether to call her to remind her of the time change and to change batteries on the smoke alarms because my mom would probably accuse me again of trying to have her declared incompetent. Anyway, my sister called her and our mom told her, "I wish I was dead or would die soon because I am being treated badly and I did nothing to deserve it." She is currently being treated for a UTI so she laid a major guilt trip on my sister. I realize they are elderly, but emotional blackmail won't work with me either.I am glad you are setting boundaries and not willing to be manipulated by her childish declarations. My mom is 83 years old. I have been around many other people in this age group. I can say this type of mentality is not the norm for the majority of elderly people. I truly believe it is a mental type illness on top of having dementia (in my mom's case). Elderly people I went to church with never talked about their aches and pains or being treated badly by their children.They were always positive,giving, and loving people. Keep your boundaries while still being there when it is necessary.

sharynmarie - You can't go by all the people in Church... Some of 'em may have pulled themselves together enough to put up a good front! Once the get home, they "lose their religion", if you know what I mean...

"Saved Soul - Lost Mind" I think they call it.

Hank, I agree with you on people putting up a front. I don't want to offend anyone here. I don't mean this toward those of us that are dealing with a person who is manipulating our emotions. I mean people who are more emotionally developed usually only share their pain with close family members not everyone they come in contact with and not to gain attention or to manipulate them.

I am back and need some advice. My NM has not called me in about 2 weeks. I guess I should be happy but yet I am rather puzzled as to why I am getting the cold shoulder. She has called my brother twice in the last several days leaving messages, telling him she is sorry and asking him to forgive her for her behavior the last time me and brother saw her. I was also there that night but I didnt get the same call. That day I did not argue or yell at her so my guess is she dismisses those in her life that try and help and support her, like I have been doing and thrives on those that argue with her. And although I should be happy, I still have to wonder why she has decided to dismiss me. I do believe one reason is currently I do not have a car so I am of no use to her. Would like your thoughts on this. I know that I need to just put her out of my mind. She has told me to stop worrying about her. to mind my own business and that I go overboard in trying to help. Seems rather pointless then to even try anymore. Thanks everyone and have a good day

playagrandma, If your mother is anything like mine, she may be calling your brother because she needs or wants him on her side. She may feel she has you on her side so she takes you for granted. My mother will never apologize for anything because in her bubble world, she is not wrong or has never done anything to hurt another. In fact, she is the one who is being hurt by all of us...go figure. My mother uses emotional manipulation to try to get a family member on her side by saying, "I wish I was dead", or "You never wanted me around" we now are leaving her alone because that is what she told us to do. Of course she now says she never said that and we are all liars and trying to make her think she is crazy. I suggest you set boundaries with your mother and distance yourself emotionally from her. You can still look out for her welfare and not entangled in the emotional garbage. Have a great day everyone!!

Thanks sharymarie, you just maybe right on all accounts because what you said describes my NM to T. She has told all of us at one time or another that she wishes she was dead. that a pill a dr gave her could make her suicidal or she is going to take all of her pills at once, she going to jump in front a semi or just pack her bags and run away. And yes she lies all the time! Yep the bourndries need to be set. Thanks again

Playa, I agree with boundaries. No one can survive a narcissist without them. But I also understand your anxiety as she might be making a mess that you will have to clean up later.

maggiesue-that what I think is my problem. I always said that I wouldnt throw her under the bus. But it has become so obvious that she does not want my help in any way-I have to just sit back and observe. As I have sttated before, she is a in a good place. She is constant contact with her dr, who is trying everything possible to get her meds straigthened out which isnt easy dealing with her. Right now, I am doing nothing. Once I get a car then I will figure what is best for me in dealing with her.

i really need some sound advice here. NM has not called lately. Thats okay. She keeps calling my oldest brother-he is not asnwering-and leaves voice mails Two were rather pathetic and then she called and told him she wabted him to go see her thursday. He did not call her back nor go see her. She called him yesterday around noon and told him that our dad would not be happy for they way he was treating her-that he was to get our her house(?)she didnt want anything to do with him ever again-yell goodbye and hung up. This is not my problem its his. However, I am becoming more and more concerned about the forgetfulness-what pills she is taking and not taking and several other issues. She quit therapy because she said the therapist made her cry and therapy wasnt helping-this was after three sessions. Do you think I am asking for problems if I call her and ask her if she still wanted my help. Now chances are she will say no and I will drop it forever. However since I know she is in a terrible state of mind right now-she may say she did want my help. If she did say that. I would want to set some rules. Like going back to therapy, like allowing me to talk to the nurse at the retirement village about have her pills monitored and probably a few other rules. I know the others in the family will think I have totally lost it. Remember I am the oldest of five-the youngest is not evern 50 yet. What are your thouughts! Have a great weekend everyone

Playagrandma, I take it your NM is in assisted living arrangement? Do you have DPOA? If you can talk with the staff at the retirement village, you could bypass your NM all together. If your brother has DPOA then he can talk with the staff. Does the staff know what is going on within the family and is she difficult with them as well? I would try talking with the staff first to see if they will help you in regards to the medicine issue. What other things would you be helping her with if she is in assisted living? Chances are she will not go back in therapy and if you give in to her now everything will start all over again.

My sister and I have been giving our mother a cold shoulder since the first of Feb. because mom through a fit at the dr.'s office when sis took her in to get a current memory test done. We only wanted to try to get her to take medicine to slow the progression of Alz. Mom did so badly on the test, she got angry and refused to finish the test, threw her purse down on the floor. The PA got the dr. and he tried to give her the test in a way she wouldn't realize it was a test,but mom walked out of the exam room accusing my sis and me of trying to have her committed and take all her money. She told us to stay out of her live...so we are. She also accused my sis of going to 2 different attorney's to try to take over her money. All of the accusations are ploys by mom to make herself a victim. She even went back to the dr. recently for a UTI and asked the dr. what he is saying behind her back to sis and me. He told her he has not said anything to us behind her back and that he discussed her situation openly with her in his office with her daughter there. Mom is desperate to prove we are out to take her money, yesterday she went back to the cardiologist to talk with him re: results of the sonogram on the arteries in her legs. He already told her she had some blockage that is not too bad but could benefit from having stints placed. She doesn't remember, she thinks my sister is lying. She has even told us we are purposely trying to make her think she is crazy. So we won't help her now until the Alz. gets bad enough and she can be declared incompetent. We don't have to take her abuse anymore, lived with it all our lives but now we have boundaries. Mom has Schzoid personality disorder.

I hope this helps you, my thoughts are with a personality disorder nothing will change with them until the Alz progresses far enough along. Every time we let her back in our life she starts again accusing us because of something she doesn't like that we say or do. Proceed with caution and enjoy the weekend, hope its a sunny one!!♥

thanks again sharymarie. NM is not in assisted living but in an apartment within the retirement village-the apartments are ajoined to the nursing home. Because she is such a busy body, the family is confident that she being watched. I am sure the staff is aware of the problems with we have with her, because I am sure they are having the same. My dad was a patient in the nursing home before he passed away and she was a bear the staff the whole time. The village does have a service that provides someone giving the pills for her and all her medications taken away from her. And we are not aware of beginning alz. No doubt dementa. I do have DOPA-at least I did but she may have taken me off cause she dont want as she says butting into her business. The brother having issues with her does not have this. My youngest brother does-but he really isnt going to do anything. The only reason why I want to encourage therapy is because her doctor strongly recommends this. What is happening now is that she calls her dr several times a year complaining that her meds are dont working and he keeps trying different things but of course nothing works cause she dont anything a chance, Weekends are the worst for her. I am thinking she will probably call me today or tomorrow-what her mood will be or what she is going to say is anybodies guess. Something needs to be done though sooner or later

well her I am again. My NM finally called me after 3 weeks of nothing. She left a very pathetic message again(yes this is her pattern)telling me that she is really suffering-how long was I going to let her suffer-that I needed to forgive her. I really dont want to call her. I just dont see the point. Nothing is going to change-like one of my brothers said-there is no need for forgiveness-all we ask is she stop being so hateful and mean. And what point does the family step and confront her with her ongoing health issues? Most are due to what she says is depression. She has been the ER two in last three weeks and she has had her medications(for depression)at least three times in the last 6 weeks. The dr has went from one kind cant remember the name to paxil, which she took maybe a week to now zoloft. She also takes another type plus zanax. Any advice would be appreciated,

This is clearly an abusive pattern -kinda like someone who beats you up and then says she's sorry, only she's beating you up with words and emotions. If YOU haven't gone to a counselor, you need to, just so YOU feel better--I wish we'd done that, even as a family, when Dad was so bad. Sometimes you need another point of view. Then, maybe you all need a united front to say just that, "We don't want your apologies, we would like you to treat us with respect so you don't HAVE to apologize. If you do act mean toward us, don't expect a call any time soon." Then the hard part - stick to your guns, ALL of you, so she can't cry to someone else if you don't respond. I know that's tough, tho, as we couldn't manage Dad either. She's getting help, now you need to help yourself.

thank you Kathy. First of all I have been in and out of therapy for years and yes that helps however currently I cannot afford a therapist. But his site has helped and given me some good advice-all my siblings have been such a big help as we are all in agreement with it comes to her. My middle brother seems to have the most patience but yet he also gets annoyed. She was in therapy-she has good insurance that will pay for it but after three sessions she quit. I like your suggestion Kathy however we have already tried that one. But we also keep going back. I have not returned her call. I have written a letter-need to thnk about sending it. The whole family is getting together today minus her. Her oldest grandchild and great grandchild will be here for the day-but NM is being left out because of her behavior. I am sure she will be alone next sunday easte sunday also. None of us can deal with her and frankly we dont want our day ruined because of her.

Play my heart goes out to you at least you have a united front since you are all on the same page-I would only approach her as a group and do not worry if she is alone -she chooses her behaivor that is why she will be alone-I learned to detatch from my Mom-there is a history there and I always thought I was a bad person until a few years ago after talking to my sister and realized I was not the problem and something got back to me my mother had said and I realized how much she hates me so I call her only occasionally-it is a shame she is 93 but she is very sharp and knows what she is doing and I do not feel sorry at all for her when I visit out there I stay with my sister-Mom would have me in tears when I was criticized for using too much toilet tissue that was the last straw. Do not let her ruin any more of your get-togethers.

so hear is the latest. I decided I did not want to talk to my mom but felt she didnt know how she has hurt me so I sent her a letter. Among other things, I asked her why everything was always about her? I told her that all of us were hurting and struggling but that she didnt seem to care. It wasnt a long letter but I just wanted to get some things off my chest. I didnt think it was a particularly nasty letter just some constructive cristism. She received the letter today and the conversation started out 'i just wanted to let you know that I didnt appreciate the nasty letter you sent me' she then went on for at least 3 minutes on how sick she has been -dr has her on this new medication blah blah. I told her that I didnt think the letter I sent was nasty-the one that was nasty I tore up. I then pointed out she didnt read the lette cause once again everything is about her. Of course she continued to say hurtful things. And then she said that with all her money she could be helping me and which I told her she was to never ever give me anothe penny-I didnt want her and was sorry I had taken the little money I had taken from her. She says well then dont bother buying me a mothers day card-at which I said I never planned on sending you one. She started saying something else and it was at that moment when I do I had to end the phone call. She dont get it-will never get it but I have decided I am too old and too tired to care anymore. I have to learn not to let it hurt and move on. It would be much better if I felt guilty instead of the hurt I keeping having. Just wanted to let everyone I know I am okay. Our family will be getting together Easter and she will not be there-she is not welcomed. God Bless!

It sounds to me like you are in a codependent relationship with your mother. Because of her personality disorder she will never be able to see your side and she will always be threatened by any criticism of her behavior.

You've got to give up your expectations that she will ever see you as a total person with hurt feelings. She is always going to behave badly no matter what you do or say.

Find another way to get your hurt feelings off your chest. Write them out here not in a letter to your mother. There are plenty of people here who will understand.

Move on. You are worth it.

playagrandma, your most recent post is so much like my life it gives me chills. I am much better now than two or three years ago. You have to understand there is something wrong with your mother and nothing is ever going to change it. You have to distance yourself and let her go. Don't buy into the guilt and understand it is about her, always will be, nothing will change, they have no empathy, she doesn't care if she hurt your feeling, hers are more important, she will throw you under the bus in 2 seconds. Whew, I could say more because I live this. But I have changed.

A weeks ago I have a terrible argument with Mom about her POA. She has only my brother on this and if she should have to come to Florida to live with me or be in a nursing home or assisted living, i would have little power to take care of her. She is at a crossroads. She has to make a new POA, it has places for two successors agents. I should at the very least be one of them. She knows I expect her to put me on this, she knows she needs to, and we will see what happens. I suspect nothing will happen, she is too paranoid. But this is the end of the road for me, if left off again, I will do nothing when she needs help. I can't really do much except the hard nasty stuff at this point. I have explained to her how hard getting guardianship and how expensive getting guardianship could be. She only snapped at me that I wouldn't have to spend "my money". She has never spent any of her money and she has plenty. But she will when the time comes.

Step away and don't let others make you feel guilty ever, you deserve better and I deserve better. But we won't get it from our Mothers as long as we let them push us around. ANd as long as you engage with them, they will try to keep this power struggle going. Cut loose from her.

thank you once again. Got another call today. I wont take her calls so she left a message. Now she would like for to me to tell her how she needs to change. That was in the letter-she has been told over and over again by all my siblings. She is doing this now cause easter is sunday and once again she will be left out of the family gatherings. You see when our dad was alive, we would not have shut her out-because of him but we all were on pins and needles-especially my dad-and it was not pleasant. I cant tell you how many times she was asked to leave because of her behavior and how we all felt bad for dad. But dad is gone and yes I know I need to give it up. And I am going to try. Just takes one day at a time. This really is rather new to me cause I have been living out of the country for 5 years and have not lived in the same area for over 25 years.

And it's ALL new, your newfound courage. My Dad, we figure, was always reined in my Mom, and when she was gone, his full selfishness showed up. I think you are doing the right thing, and if she wants to learn to change, great, but you must stick to your guns this time. Have a great, carefree Easter! (And don't worry about her - she's tough, I bet!)

Play, things will never change. My mother is still playing her emotional games and the only break I get is to stay away from her and not call her. My mother will spend Easter alone too. I am the one who gets the family together but I usually have to work Easter. No one wants to be around mom because she is too unpleasant. I am so sick of her victim mentality, I just don't care to be around her and I don't let her make me feel guilt. She can push my buttons with her lies and denials, then I get so angry with her because she plays her game so well. I hope you have a wonderful Easter and don't let your NM ruin it. Turn off the phone and enjoy the weekend♥!!

What an eye opener this site has been for me. I began caring for my 89 yr old mother a year ago. She came to live with me and my husband in Colorado after a 21/2 yr stint in Arizona with my older brother. He called me one day and told me his wife was going to leave him if he didn't get rid of her and asked me to take over. Emotionally and stupidly we said yes. A decision that I intensely regret. Now I have a name for it NPD! She has been trying to manipulate and control us her whole life and truley is completely self centered and wants all of me. She provokes fights all the time and spouts her religion and her moral superiority. I too am suffering intense burnout. Nothing pleases her, I can never give enough to suit her. We live in a small trailer with 2 bedrooms and one bathroom. There is literally no place to hide. For me it is get in my car and run a way or lock myself in my bedroom. Last week I finally made my first call to check out a retirement home. What a relief. She is in very good health and quite independant and can be left alone. She doesn't want to part with her money, but I told her she has to. So she called my other brother to beg him to take her in, so she can burn through him also.However he has early onset ahlzeimers, so that will never happen. I know she will be happier in a home, when she lets herself, but oh the guilt she gives me! I am taking steps one day at time and hopefully in the correct order. It is tough, but has to be done. She cannot stay here anymore. My heart and prayers go out to all of you loving caregivers out there. God bless you and thank you for helping me realize I am not alone.

msk-do it and dont look back. You didnt say what state or city you live in, but many have facilites for senior citizens. These facilties are not assisted living but equipped for elderly, provide transportation, some offer meals, and have planned activities plus they can be checked on. Especially look at HUD housing-if she qualified these facitlites are highly recommmend. As for my NM she has money and has an apartment in a retirement community. She is safe and watched over and the best place she can be. Dont give up-dont feel guilty-just do it. As for my NM, I have not spoken to her in over three weeks. I needed this time away from her-I know she is okay and if and when I am ready, I will contact her. I wish you the best of luck!

Good morning! Thought I would report the latest on my NM. She has been very quiet for the last month. No phone calls to me or my oldest brother. Both of us decided to just stay away from her and hopefully she will get the message. She finally called my brother saturday -she left a voice mail and it was a very positive one. So my brother called her and he said she even asked about other family members-which she never does. He is going to see her thursday. As for me the jury is still out-I will see how his visit with her goes on thursday. If she is good, then I will probably see her sometime next week. We keep hoping that maybe just maybe she finally got the message. Howeve we are very cautious. Thanks for all your support.

So it seems she may have gotten the message! I think this won't be the end of reminding her, though. Step by step. Good luck!

I have an update on the situation on my NM. Well after not talking to her for several weeks, I decided I would get visit her this week. I called her sunday, and agreed to see her this coming friday. Of course I got the you know I love you and all my troops(this is what she called her kids)and thanked me for calling. okay that went well. But then bam-8 that night she calls me. Asked me how soon could I go yesterday morning. She said was dehydrated(she wasnt)and how she isnt sleeping and eating and thought I would need to take her to the dr. So I went out. I live about 45 miles away and I arrived early before she called the dr. When I got there-she tells me she is okay. She drank three glasses of water and feelling better. I said no way, you are going to the dr-call and make an appointment. I wasnt sure what I was going to tell the dr. After quizzing her-she has been eating-not alot and she has lost 6 pounds in a month however she is only 5'1 and really needed to lose some weight. And sunday night was really the only night she hadnt slept good. However there was two things, I needed to talk to the dr about. One, her ongoing problem with bowel movement accidents-she had one before going to the dr and her apparent confusion on her medications. To make a long story short-he dr finally checked her stomach and he discovered some miscomfort and she will now see a specialist. Then we found out she was taken a pill the dr had discontinued. Not sure where the fault here-the drs office or the pharmacy. NM gets her pills in a pill box so not her fault. Not sure how this problem will be solved but we shall take one day at a ti me. At least we will find out once and for all why the accidents with the bowels. I suspect its probably just not being able to control it and the stomach probably because she doesnt get enough fiber and water. This is what I have wanted all along. It was the reason why I went with her the dr the first time back in feb. And another thing why the dr cant treat her properly-she lies to him. The first thing she told him she hadnt been eating or sleeping. You could tell he was frustrated especially the sleeping part-I quickly pointed out to him that the only sunday night she didnt sleep good.. I cant always go to the dr with her. She calls that poor dr several times a week and like he said, he can only go by what she is telling him. He had upped her zoloft last monday and already she is telling me it isnt working-he said please give it time. I am going back out friday to clean out her closet and maybe take her out to lunch for mothers day-as I leave on the 8th for six weeks. i will report back. I feel good right now cause I least I got the message across to the dr about the bowels. have a good day everyone!

Play you handled that good-you are detaching but there for her-it is amazing how they can pick and choose what to tell whoever I do not know how they keep it all straight-Judge Judy says if you tell the truth you do not have to have a good memory.

Thanks Austin, well only time will tell with her-but I do feel better handling her like this. She was so pathetic when I was there on Monday, I almost wanted to feel sorry for her. She makes her own misery. My youngest brother normally sees her every monday after he gets off work and takes her to dinner. She decided monday that he should not go out and asked me to tell him which I did. So I get a call last night wanting to know if I told my brother to go out last night-I told her no and she blew up. She said I was to tell him and now she had been waiting-nothing to eat in her apartment and she tried calling him and no answer. Oh by the way-she was so mad cause she was feeling soooooo good now. Its really a never ending battle with her. I am to go out friday but now I have a cold and feel rotten-I do know if I cancel she will not be happy but you know what-tough!