How do you deal with a narcissistic mother?

Judy.....I understand completely...my mom makes loud comments too, about peoples weight, the clothes they are wearing, their kids behavior, how long it is taking to get food or prescriptions, everything. We were in a small bar eating and as a couple of guys walked by she says "how come those Mexicans let themselves get so fat"... I have always fought being overweight but she is a little bitty thing and has no idea.....Her apt started out as senior apt and is now open to younger qualified people....she went to the neighbors door late at night and told them it was their business if they smoked pot but she was tired of smelling it and would they please put a rag under the door. I told her she was going to get herself killed. A Sympathizer, yep, they block any solution because then they couldn't complain about it. Although my mom doesnt drive she won't take the bus...it stops right in front of her building and she is in very good health. I suggested volunteering at the hospital where I work which is just a few blocks from her. What would I do in the winter.....I said I would her...what if its hours you don't work.....I said they will work with you, you only have to do it 1 day a week if
you want....it is not a paid job. Go down to the senior center and take computer classes (which is now not possible because of her eyes).....no, I won't go while that witch (not sure how many of them that involves) is still there....same story on and on.

well its going on over a month since I talked to my NM. The last time I heard from her over a month ago-after all I did for her-she told me to butt out of her life-so I have. She is a very very nice place but continues to be unhappy because she got caught smoking, when she signed a paper stating she would not smoke. She told my youngest brother that she was going to move out-she has been told my all of her kids that she can do whatever she wants but we will not be a part of it-she can move herself and do all the things needed to be done for any move to happen. She cannot live alone but you cant tell her that and her dr will probably tell her to find a new one as he surely does not want to go back to the way she was before I got her straightened So having said this-her birthday is the 22nd of sept. And I am very torn about whether I should send a card or not. I mean why should I-yet hear comes the damn guilt. For sure it will not be a happy birthday mom card. Maybe a funny card? Then I thought of a card that was blank and put in a small message but what would that be? And I refuse to sign it love. Any help or suggestions here would be really appreciated. Love you all

Hi playa - I hear you. Cards are a problem when you don't want to be hypocritical. I find cards that wish her a good day - which I can honestly do, but nothing about her being a wonderful mum etc. Sometimes I can find a Christian card which wishes her blessings - I do. A blank card would work too as long as you can figure out a message that is honest. I can wish her the best, wish her a good day, pray that God bless her, wish her a happy Birthday...The choices are limited. Somewhere along the way here someone said that gult is not love. and recently I read here that a doctor told a daughter something to the effect "If you can do it out of love do it, if you are doing it out of guilt (obligation? - can't remember) don't do it. I can relate, though if it came to something that was life or death, and I could only do it out of obligation or guilt, I probably would do it, but short of that I am getting - probably have gotten - to the point where I won't do whatever it is. I have found that my NM is remarkably resilient to things that would upset/hurt someone else. Their emotions don't work the same as normal people's do. Mother expects fights and slights - it is her world, and she waves them off as "So and so is in a funny mood again:". That has often been her reaction to me when I took a step back after she has lashed out at me. So, I say do what feels right to you -whether it is not to do anything, or to send a card with a message that you can live with. I sent mother an ecard at Christmas but didn't sent the usual flowers, nor did I last time she was in hospital for surgery. I am too tired of hearing the bitching about them being too big, too small, wrong colour, arriving at the wrong time etc. And frankly, I don't think it mattered to her a great deal that I didn't send them. I get more complaints when I do. .I did send flowers for her 100th birthday because she specifically asked for them - pink roses- and she didn't complain - nor did she thank me really, but I can put up with that. Know that the sky won't fall in if you don't send a card, and you may feel liberated that you have not acted against your own deep self respect needs. She will continue to self destruct - you can't change that. So look after you, do what is good for you -whatever it is, your mother will survive, and I doubt it will change youe relationship much. Actually, in my case, I suspect mother will appreciate - or at least not complain as much - about flowers in the future, as it is not taken for granted that I will send them. Good luck and let us now what you decide to do. (((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))) Joan

As for making negative comments about others, I think judy is doing the right thing. I have told mother that I don't want to hear about complaints about "so and so;" any more as I have heard it many times, and all it does is spoil the time I have with her. When she criticises someone's appearance, I have told her that that person is a nice lady and I don't care about her weight.etc. Basically it is setting limits, and I know that is a role reversal that doesn't come naturally, but if your NM is acting childishly, not maturely, then setting a limit is appropriate. Normal people tend to pick up on signals that the person they are talking to is not comfortable with the conversation. Personality Disorder people don't seem to pick up on those signals, or they choose to ignore them, so giving them honest feedback does everyone a favour. Mother used to think she had to comment on my weight and my clothing all the time. Finally I asked her if she thought I didn't dress well or look good. (I got compliments at work about my clothing and appearance all the time).. She told me that she thought I liked the feedbac,k and that my sister liked it when she gave it to her. I told her that I did not appreciate her feedback (which was pretty well all negative) and that I could make my own decisions, and that, in fact, my sister did not appreciate it either. Since then she has been better to me, and I have even gotten the odd compliment - sort of - certainly less negative feedback. She won't say I look good, but that something suits me. I'll take it. I can tell when she does't like something I am wearing, by the look on her face, but she hasn't said anything negative for a long time.
qbearq - You are right - they don't want solutions, they want to be able to complain. So be it - the hard part is spending much time with them as it is all about complaints. Again -setting limits - including cutting the visit short and leaving, works for me. I find mother can be distracted to a degree, by me changing the topic of conversation, though she is sharp enough to recognise what I am doing sometimes. (((((((((((hugs)))))))))) Joan

suddenobvious...so what your saying is "there's no hope of normality?"

Inspiring, yet somehow says its all hopeless. My mother makes me "feel bad"...end of story!
I got to the point of 'I dont have to do this' and I didnt...for a whole 7 days after a blow-up, but guilt drove me back. I hate myself for that.

suddenobvious you are going way overboard here and way too much worthless information and frankly you havent helped anyone here that is dealing with a NM. Do you even have one or maybe you are on trying to tell us why you are one. Look there is no simple solution when dealing with a NM -because we all have different stories but in the end they are all linked. I for one did not come from a dysfunctional family-partly due to my father. There are five of us-one a judge-one a teacher-one an editor of a small town newspaper no divorces in the family-no criminals-drug addicts or alcholics. There are nine grandchildren-one a nurse-one a chiropratic-one working as a camera man for a local tv station-all three college graduates. Then we have four in their last year of college and all with 4.0 grade averages. Two left-one is in nurses training and the other just out of high school. So you see all of us have survived in this world in spite of NM but we stil have to deal with this woman. Our dad was a loving caring person and loved all of us uncondtionally especially her. I am sure he is the thriving force as to why we have continued to put up with her. However as i said before at this point I am done with her-my oldest brother is done. My sister lives far way. That leaves my middle and youngest brothers-they are close. I am sure one day she will lose all of us. Sorry I went on and on but frankly suddenobvious got me going this morning. Hang in there everyone and do what is right and comfortable for YOU.

oh suddenobvious if you only knew the whole story. MY NM DID INDEED NEEDED MY HELP AND I HAVE BEEN THERE TO HELP HER. AND WITH THAT I REFUSE TO ADDRESS THE REST OF WHAT YOU POSTED EXCEPT I GUESS WE CAN JUST POINT FINGERS AT EACH OTHER CAUSE YOU REALLY SOUND LIKE YOU ARE INDEED A NARRISTIC PERSON.

I will not take the assumption to speak for everyone, but I believe that most people on this sight are here to support each other, not have some wannabe Einstein's view of how society works and to cut each other down , be rude, or imply that we are putting up with parents because we are not high enough in the social ladder to not be able to walk away from them.

thank you so much gbear-and so true. Sorry i over reacted but like I said in another post please dont judge any of us unless you have walked in our shoes Each have a different story-some horrible and although some dont seem so bad well that is for us to know-cause having to deal with a NM is a very horrible ordeal to endure. God Bless all and have a great day

I can not speak for everyone, but I believe most of us are on here to support each other, not to be criticized by an Einstein wannabe, or told that we are are socially high enough to be able to walk away from someone. Playagrandmas response appeared to be a defense to your assumption of the type of people that would stand by their parent. Your response back was down right rude.

Another Amber Jane in our mist.

I'd first ask myself why I feel guilty. Is it something awful I'm atoning for, or the constant guilt trips my manipulative mother lays on me? My only suggestion is to enforce boundaries consistently. "No" means just that. If she throws a tantrum, ignore her. Unless it's an actual emergency, don't even pick up the phone after her 2nd hissy call. Also let her know you're no one's chauffeur. If she doesn't have wheels, I'm sure there's cab service in her community. I'm not suggesting you kick her a__ to the curb. After all, she's your mother. But you have to find a way to stop feeding her ego. "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. ... Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime."

well if you had read what I said-I AM DONE WITH HER. By the way why are you on this message board-seems you have all the answers-just sayin!

(((((((((((((((playa grandma)))))))))))) -

Playa~ Don't let this fool push your buttons, a narcissist seeks attention in many different ways and this is clearly one seeking attention!!!

is this Maya come back under a different name?

I think by now we know how a narcissic person operates-many of us grew up with them-and age does not matter my mother is her 90's just get worse as the months go by.

Oh, jeez. Just caught wind of the new Amber Jean, so I came on by to take a look for myself. Part of the caregiver etiqu
Sharyn - I laughed out loud when I saw your comment!
Suddenobvious, no one asked you to "conclude" anything, or to make judgements. You're new to this site, and, well, pretty rude. Part of caregiver etiquette is not to launch personal attacks, and it seems to me that you have. We are supposed to be friendly and helpful to each other, as well. This site has been a godsend of information, support and friendship for a lot of us. If you can't play nice, can you just play somewhere else? You obviously don't hold this site as something dear to your heart the way most of us do. I look forward to checking in with friends here. I look forward to the advice, pats on the back and humor. Sudden, you're sort of taking a dump on this thread, and its bumming everyone out. Playa - xxoo to you. I always look forward to seeing your comments.

Thank you for everyones support. I must say what suddenobvious said had me asking myself questions. Could I be a narristic person? Then I realized she or he was starting to make me feel like my NM makes me feel-sad and mad. I do know this-if she had a narrissitic person in her life she would not be butting in like she has because she would know that saying those things are not helpful at all. Everyday I stay away from my NM is another good day for me. You know never is a long time but as of now its never. Again thank you everyone and I suspect we wont be seeing suddenobvious around here anymore. Hugs to everyone

Gosh, yes - I know how it feels! My mother was ultimately diagnosed with paranoid personality disorder, which - when we heard the title seemed so obvious - we have all heard the adjective 'paranoid', but living with it, and applying it to the perso we are told we are supposed to love, is soooo hard. Ultimately I 'divorced' my mother but only after I appreciated that her stabbing me when I was eleven years old, and that my consequently attempted suicide attempt six months later was NOT normal.
Why continue to put your fragile head in the lion's mouth??? I wish you so well and will remember you in my prayers,
Hugs,
Your sister in torment,
Angela

Hi everyone!

This topic is of high interest to me but reading through the posts a bit I wonder if I'm on the right thread. It seems everybody is feeling sorry for themselves, there's apparently not a hint of concern for those who were forced out of their homes and living in institutions, and I was shocked to see that the only one who did provide some very interesting thoughts on narcissism -suddenobvious-immediately got group-attacked.
I must agree with him that this thread appears to be a hide-out for people with a guilty conscience seeking support from peers. If people have narcissistic parents, they simply don't behave this way, because they are first and foremost interested in understanding what's going on.
Suddenobvious gave an insightful post and nobody could deal with it.

Everyone relax, Sudden is THANG'S sister.... and if the poor locked up elderly are being mistreated, then they need to start their own sight... this one is for us.;... and by the way Elvira, no one here is feeling sorry for themselves... we are trying to find support, with people with similiar situations, so that we can all learn how to get healthy, cope with what life has handed us, and get a break from our busy lives... so if you feel we are feeling sorry for ourself, then please don't read us.... we certainly don't want to 'bring you down'.....
And for whoever asked if this was Maya under a different name, nahhh, Maya didn't know all those big words.....

To playagrandma

You say suddenovious makes you feel sad and mad. That's how narcissists always feel when having to deal with criticism. I'm not saying you are a narcissist but you simply are never using the right arguments and constantly seeking support from your peers.
I read the posts and you were the one who attacked suddenobvious after his first post and it seems clear you are not interested at all in understanding or solving a problem, only in getting support for yourself.
Everybody on this thread appears to be so into getting support for themselves, which is really funny when considering this thread is about care for the elderly, not self-pity for their children.
I quite understand that elderly parents, especially when in retirement homes may become very disturbed and even insane. But where is the will to understand anything about these processes?
That you call a post that you probably don't understand worthless and suddenobvious a narcissist a rather bad signs as far as I'm concerned, and if you are in that sort of state of mind, it doesn't come as a surprise that your mother doesn't welcome your help.
This may sound a bit harsh, but it seems to me the posts on this thread aren't very clear at all. Everybody is so concerned about their own wellbeing, and there's doesn't seem to be even a hint of concern for the elderly.
It's all about 'we belong here, we've been here longer than you, we give each other support, you're not allowed to break in to our little club'.

I think you are being dishonest about the situation.

to Iadee

You state: 'this one is for us'
So I was spot on.

You actually also say:
'if the poor locked up are being mistreated, then they need to start their own sight' (you meant 'site).

I rest my case: you don't care about the elderly, you're into this to get support for yourself.
Well at least, you admitted it, which is probably more than the others will do..

And of course, if you don't care about someone, don't expect them to appreciate your 'help'.

I check in on this thread from time to time. I don't have all the answers, but I'll just put this out. I need to read suddenobious again. I'm a little brain compromised from caring for my dad who is dying, so maybe I just didn't interpret it correctly.

I didn't think sudden obvious was criticizing anyone. Maybe I'm wrong His/her post was a bit over the top and not so easy to understand, but I thought it was more about society and how people cope with it more than anything personal.

Elvira: I think all the people who have commented on the NM thread do care about their NM's. It's just that they can't receive anything in return. I think of it like I think about my dog. A little pat on the head, a hug, some good food and you are nourished. The love (via nourishment) keeps you going. It makes you feel good about what you are doing. A Narcissistic parent only takes, never gives. If they give it is usually in a form of manipulation. That is not food for the soul.

Play: I'm glad you are staying away from your mom. She is doing fine. The only thing that is missing in her life is the ability to jerk you around. You don't need that.

Best wishes, Cattails.

Ok elvira, I'll play, I am very appreciated by my elders... as I appreciate them also... love them dearly, and thanks for the correction as those things are important to you...
And in case you missed it,,,,Aging Care, connecting people caring for elderly parents... DUH, this is a support group.... I'm not sure what you think we should be talking about... please feel free to give us your input.... pretty sure we will go on as we have been, but hey, you feel the need to have something to say also, so we are listening...
I've been on this "site" for years, and to think I had it wrong all this time... silly me.

I would ask who Amber Jane is but I don't think I want to know

wow I didnt realize i was such an evil person. you know this site had been very helpfful up to now. You know maybe I dont explain myself very good so this especially for superobvious who I will now superclueless and elvira. My mom is not in what you call a resthome. So get over that one. The last place I want my mom in is a nursing home. However she was not taking care of herself properly and was going to put in in one of I hadnt stepped in. Thankfully she was already living in a retirement community that offered assited living. This facitlily is a 5 star place. For the first time in years she is feeling good and in a safe place-you see she had fallen twice when living by herself. The family feared that the next time she fell, she would go to the nursing home. You see you dont know my mom-she has never been happy and it really would be easier to just walk away. Suddenobvious and Elvira-do you have a NM? How do you deal with that? Maybe you could give us some advice and instead of judging. Of coure all of us have made mistakes in dealing with our NM. Like I said I guess I dont tell it right but I can assure the two of you-I have not ripped her out of her home and MADE her doing anything-she is her own boss

Holy crap. Where'd anonymous go? I read in comments that it was a person named Elvira, but was she booted or did she self boot because I can't find Elvira comments or profile at all? Looks like I missed all the excitement. And, suddenobvious's comments are all missing. I have to admit, I did report one that just simply attacked, but it had to be more than me reporting for booting to happen, unless she removed herself. Either way, I'm happy.

Isnt it great Judy!