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I am not sure on what to exactly put for details but in a nutshell Dad presented calm, and collective to counselor, as usual. Counselor thinks Dad needs to be more assertive. I do NOT agree.
I brought up the issues with Finances, the anger, the lack of movement (no real pain issues), the behavioral changes, and my perception was disregarded. Counselor has seen Dad a handful of times total.
Counselor informed me it was alright for Dad to yell and scream at me as he was expressing his emotions. At that point I had enough. I was close to walking out of the room. I was BLUNT and stated NO, if he is angry he HAS NO RIGHT to YELL AND SCREAM. (I was so pissed I had all I could do to not show I had temperament issues). I couldn't' win I continually was told I was disregarding my Dads' emotions which is far from the truth.
Whenever Dad was asked a question he downplayed what he was doing if he admitted it and said he was miserable because of me. His cnslr. stated that possibly Dad felt locked in the home (Dad chooses NOT to leave) even when prompted most of the time. He will not join groups, seek friendships, etc.
His anger outbursts were blamed on me and my nagging. The reality on the nagging is Dad will not handle any affairs unless prompted (he get's less than one a day I talked about this in a previous post) . He also ASKS me how to do most of what he needs. This is the "nagging". I purposely avoid conflict and do not ask him to do something unless it is important.important. Honestly the important stuff get's let go at times.
Counselor added I talk to fast and confuse my Dad. I try to go slow not sure on that one. I guess the main issue is how do I get my Dad the help he needs if he is being dishonest? I don't' think I can.
I have noticed a pattern with my Dad throughout his life even prior to the onset of the new symptoms. He blames others for his own issues. He in a way twists the reality of it to make someone else look at fault.
On a good note when I brought up his medication issues, he stated again he was taking them. I brought the bottles. I proved he was not taking them as prescribed. But that alone is not going to make this cnlr see the reality. I am also questioning how good this cnslr is at this point. The Cnslr. stated to me that my Dad feels uncomfortable stating his own needs. This again is not true. During the entire session my Dad was agreeing with the cnslr.'s questions. For example, the cousnlr. would say, you feel as if you don't have a voice and you are not allowed to have feelings? Dad would say yes to them all.
I am almost certain whatever is stemming my Dad's anger needs to be addressed. I do not think that can happen if Dad just agrees with everything the cnlr states and doesn't be at least somewhat realistic. I also thinks the depression needs to be better addressed. The cnsl. at one point stated to me Dad is depressed what do you "expect" him to do? I myself have had depression, and I know all to well you can NOT give into the symptoms in their entirety. You cannot just sit and wallow. It makes it worse. Why were suggestions not made on the depression?
Final note here as I have talked to my Dad on numerous occasions about his depression, getting out, etc. I have spent more hours discussing how he feels and what needs to happen with our family, or him alone. Dad DOES express his needs. Our home is not a dictatorship.
I am thinking this cnslr needs to go. I have been rattled since the appointment. I am not even sure if a cnslr can help my Dad with the information he gives.

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Correction: I meant to say : in the misery of trying.....
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Went through similar situation with MIl who tried to manipulate her way thru a neuropsych evaluation but this professional knew what was going on..MIL diagnosed in midstages of dementia. That was over a year ago. MIL now in NH/ special area for memory impaired and she is happier then she was at home with my SIL (who did her best along with her husband & son), I don't understand why so many here continue in the misey of trying to take care of elders with dementia when there are viable alternatives, especially when they have their own children exposed to it .
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Sounds like that particular counselor was not a good fit for your needs.

Aphena, since you have not filled out your profile, Countrymouse's request for more information about your situation would be helpful for us all.

In my opinion, it is neither appropriate nor healthy for a nine-year-old to be taking care of a parent. I don't know how that came about in your family. It certainly was not your fault that it happened, I know that. But it probably did not lay a healthy foundation on which to build a relationship with this man you love and feel some responsibility for.

As a child you had no control over the circumstances of your living situation. As an adult you do. As Countrymouse observes, it is very hard to think of the situation you describe as being comfortable for anyone. You cannot fix the situation for your father, so you are asking for help. But maybe the situation can't be fixed. Maybe it has to be changed.

If you left, Father would have to get his care from some other source. This might work out much better, being unfettered with an unhealthy history that goes back many years. You could visit him as a loving daughter, and not as his caregiver and supervisor and warden. This will be a very new experience for both of you ... which is scary but might just be a welcome change once you get used to it.

Not every thing that is broken can be fixed. This is true many times over when dementia is involved. (I believe you have mentioned the possibility of dementia in other posts, but since it is not in your profile I'm not sure.)
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Aphena, not all counselors are good. Some are outright stupid. My relative is a counselor. When this person was going to college they saw a lot of people who shouldn't even be counselors. They were there because they couldn't cut it being a doctor or an engineer. Seemed like the easy route for them to take.
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Aphena I would like nothing more than to suggest something helpful if I possibly can, but other than that your father has a major depressive disorder and that you have been caring for him since you were nine, I know nothing about the circumstances.

Are you living in your father's home or is he in yours?
The non-dictatorship family (good!) - is that you, your father, partner, any children?
Are you caring for your father full-time?
Is any other family involved?
What treatment is your father getting for his depression? How successful has that been over the years?

I completely understand your frustration, and the stress that goes with that. What concerns me is that you have said a couple of times that you - how do you put it? - can have an attitude, or temperament issues; and you also say that you want to keep your father where he is comfortable; but from the huge emotion that comes across from your writing I don't see that anyone can be comfortable in this situation - not you, and not your father either.

I gather - should I? - that you've been trying to carry your father emotionally for many years. Have you ever considered alternatives for his care? Are there other options? I'm wondering if you ever get the chance to stand still and think how it might feel if you didn't have to do this.
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Some of the responses are exactly why people do NOT reach out with concerns, frustrations, or other issues.
You will read here that others are experiencing similar issues. Caregivers get ABUSED and it is quite often and it is downplayed. I have read several posts from others going through worse which actually enlightens my situation (for me).
I have taken care of my Father from the age of nine. I want to keep him where he is comfortable. I have overseen his medications. I have made suggestions. I have taken hours talking, trying to get him to HELP HIMSELF. He refuses all suggestions made by his treatment team. I have taken him to the water, he will not drink.
He is depressed. He does not help himself and his passive aggressive nature has turned quite abusive. I would expect a trained professional to see through the excuses and offer suggestions on how best to cope not place blame.
I feel my Fathers pain in more ways then one. I cannot fix it for him which is why I am asking for help. Trust me I can have an attitude but with my moral structure I never and would never talk someone down based on an illness. All I am asking for is help.

Vstefans, no, this is the only one since the new issues have arised. (he refused one on one counseling previously) He has a counselor , psychiatrist, and primary care doctor.
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Olmaandme, my point is that depression is a treatable illness.

And my take is that counselor has "taken sides" and is scapegoating the caregiver while the caregivee gets to place the blame on her for how he feels. Read again - he's claiming she confines him but in fact he refuses to go out. He probably does feel weak, vulnerable, and scared, but he's getting a pass to take that out on her with no expectation to try anything different himself, and to engage in what she experiences as verbal abuse. Counselor COULD give each of them time to speak and voice feelings uninterrupted in front of each other, but also needs to listen to facts and not mold the responses of one person to suit her assessment.
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What exactly do you think a counselor is going to do?
Give him a magic pill or a mantra that solve all your problems?
The man is aging,depressed and being threatened by your attitude that he's incompetent and he might well be but it sounds to me as if as you need to talk with someone that might help you understand what he's going through.
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When she asked you, "he has depression, what do you expect him to do?", the right answer might be another question, what do YOU think we can do to TREAT his depression?" Something is making no sense here. How many different people have you been to altogether? Do they all blow it off like this?
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Aphena, I'm sorry to be dense but could you outline the circumstances a bit, please? Are you living with your father, how old is he, what are his health issues and so on? I've been trying to work out how you came to be his caregiver but I don't seem to be getting very far.

Meanwhile, huge sympathy. Frustrating parents are more frustrating than anything else on earth, as far as I know.
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Aphena, I read through your other posts, has your father had the neuropsych testing you spoke about earlier? Is he still competent to handle his own financial affairs? Or will he give you POA so that you can pay the bill, mortgage, etc?

Has dad been seen by a geriatric psychiatrist? Is that who took him off Abilify? Who suggested this "counselor"? And what is her training? When she asked you, "he has depression, what do you expect him to do?", it seems to me that the answer from you would start with "I expect him to pay his bills without reminders and be able make himself a simple meal".

Aphena, I understand that you have a lot on your plate. I'm going to suggest that you start a new question, something like how can I help my dad?". I think you need to lay out the history of his mental and physical illnesses and what you've tried so far. Try to simplify your writing a bit; it is sometimes difficult for me to follow your train of thought. I think this will get you better advice when folks can see your "big picture"
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Herbalizer is so right. Be very careful and avoid as much as possible involvement with toxic people. Too often you can do nothing constructive but you can be really injured yourself. Does he understand that he needs help? If you were to go on strike and just leave him to his own devices, is he capable of understanding what his situation would be? Maybe calling his bluff and making it clear that you have limits he better respect would help?
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Your father is a very toxic person for you to be around. Any chance you could have him placed in an assisted living? I agree it would good for you to go to a counselor yourself. They may have referrals for a geriatric counselor for your dad to go to, or good advice on what you could do. My husband is very frustrating too because he refuses to do things that would help him and does the opposite of what he should do. You go with him to a doctor and he refuses to tell them what's going on and instead paints a rosy happy picture instead. If I blow up and try to set the record straight, I'm the one that looks bad--not him. I finally realize I can't change him. He is an adult and has to live with his own bad choices even if that affects me.
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I pretty much gave up on my mother. I think if she were to see a psychiatrist, she would be diagnosed with dependent personality disorder mixed with a bit of borderline and a touch of narcissism. At her age, 88, and with dementia, there's not much point in trying to change things. I just tolerate and have become a master at walking away to avoid things. Walking away is my front line response when abuse starts. Sometimes I will say something later, but it always is turned to be either my fault or my imagination. She takes the innocent victim role. She also takes on the behavior of a little girl when she is trying to make peace. If other people could see the things I see! I'm sure my father saw plenty of it. She was very dependent on him for most of her life.

Since your father sounds so much like my mother, it may give you some comfort to read about dependent personality disorder. Your father may not have the disorder, but be fighting the battle for self image that many seem to be fighting. Many elders are thrown into dependency, so I wouldn't be surprised if many people go through the same things. The caregivers can be blamed as being the one making them miserable.
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There's an old adage that you cannot change another person, you can only change yourself. Your post seems to show a great deal of frustration which often comes with the responsibility for being a caregiver. Instead of taking your father to counselors where he apparently presents a different persona, you might consider carving our time for yourself to speak with a counselor where you have a safe place to self disclose your frustrations and perhaps learn some techniques to manage your expectations.
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Thank you all I see the other comments now. I DID record him. I have hours of recordings. I have played some they need to be edited. That recordings have gotten futile as the professionals do NOT want to hear them. They don't' take the time. I have no NEW recordings.
Honestly I get very scared at times. I am afraid he will create more drama with the fabrications. He has used what I tell him against me. The man that used to have a heart, uses my memory against me, and anything else he may find that bothers me.
He stated to his CNSLR he is stressed. Every solution I have implemented to help his anxiety he refuses to do. Is it the stress that is making me think I am living with a ticking time bomb? He has managed to convince so many "professionals" I am scared about my welfare.
I just cannot see why he does not want to help himself. I cannot grasp why he wants to make our home so stressful.
How would I go about getting a new Or should I recommend stopping counseling all together?
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I thought the same issue on the Diploma. Oddly, Dad's Pych said he felt the counselor wasn't' helping so that may be my ONLY angle to get possible treatment for him. However, he is usually non-responsive (via what I have been told prior to these NEW symptoms).
Have you sought help for your Mom Jessie? Has it worked or is it all a dead end road?
I cannot tell you how much it helps to hear that this happens with our Elder's. This is all new to me and I have little support. My GF who has seen hsi behavior is at her wits end. She has tried to talk to him. I would say now the total has been weeks for the past year. He seems to like the attention, even though it;s negative. He fabricates about her. He said we gang up on him so to speak. He has stated he can't stand her to professionals yet he asks her for help, tells me she has a great heart, and she is a good person. She is just trying to help our family.
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Counselor needs audio or video tapes to realize what is actually happening.
You need a new counselor, ideally, someone who is actually a geriatric specialist.
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I would definitely try to get another counselor--one that is used to working with the elderly. I agree with you and disagree with the counselor: No it is NEVER OK to yell or scream at another person. That is not expressing your emotions. It's called being abusive, pure and simple. I suspect your dad is good at manipulating others and was playing that counselor. He wants to be liked by others and appear as a 'good person' to others. You do that by agreeing with everything they say and offer up, and never disagree with them or state what you're really like especially if it's something negative. That counselor needs counseling in my opinion.
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The counselor must not be used to working with older people. My mother does the same thing your dad does. Yesterday was a good example. She was very verbally abusive to me when I wouldn't do something RIGHT NOW! She really chewed into me. Later when I told her she was abusive, she turned it on me. I was to blame. All she did was blah, blah, blah. Totally crazy making, but nothing we can do about it.

It does bother me that a professional counselor is not aware that old people often do this. It is actually a symptom that goes with a dependent personality. From what you wrote, your father may have a dependent personality, which tends to be very passive with most people, but often vicious with one "lucky" person. Depression is also common for people with dependency.

Please don't take the counselor to heart. Your father sounds much like my mother. I have a feeling that many other old people are the same as their dependency increases. They want to save face by saying they COULD do it, so it is someone else's fault. The truth is that other people started doing it because it had become too much to handle. This is very hard for some elders to accept.

If the counselor did not understand this, maybe he should put his diploma back into the Cracker Jack box it came out of. :) Just kidding. Was the counselor young?
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