My Dad wants to bring my Mom home to take care of her because he says she's not improving at NH. Anyone been through this?

I haven't been through this, but reading this, I'm wondering how advanced your DAD'S dementia is? Is it time to get guardianship? Who is mom's poa?

Would bringing mom home on hospice with round the clock aides and nursing care once a week be more costly than NH plus dads aides?

Dad has mild dementia at this point, he tends to get side tracked when doing things [don't we all].... I think he just misses having Mom around the house, sadly she won't be the same person who had left the house. To her "home" is where she grew up.

Both my Dad and I are Mom's medical Power of Attorney with equal control. When I noticed Dad was too shaken up to even answer the basic questions at the hospital regarding Mom, then I stepped in. Dad was in favor of having Mom at the nursing home, but apparently he was under the impression it was going to be short term??? Dad also sat in on the Hospice meeting asking questions, etc.

Mom is on morphine so I don't know if a Caregiver needs to be certified to give said medicine. Only one of his Caregivers is a certified nursing assistant. The rest are companions.

I feel like I am on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride at the moment.

FF, from all that you've written, I think your father is not only unable to see what your mother's true situation is, but he's in denial. I know from some personal experiences that some people think "if only...." (a) I could bring her home and take care of her (b) she could come home....then things would be better.

Is he able to understand advice from a doctor who would gently and compassionately explain to him what the situation is?

A less compassionate but more powerful method is to do a cost projection, of how much it would cost daily, weekly and monthly for the care your mother needs, unless hospice is already active and will cover the costs. If it is, that might be a cost saving, but the question is whether or not your father would be able to work with hospice or you would have to still be involved on time off from your job. The other issue is the expected duration of hospice.

I'm not sure but I think if your mother were on hospice in her home, a nurse would be administering morphine rather than a caregiver.

I am so sorry the situation has reached this point, and so sad for your whole family.

Freqflyer so sorry Dad is so lonely.. You've given great advice to others, now I guess it's your turn to receive some..

It's not easy when it's your loved ones but in your heart you know what to do..

Hugs...

I think you also have to consider the discomfort to your mother of moving her. It would be just a horrible mess logistically. It's all so damn hard, I know, but Dad is not reasoning well and I don't think you should cave in on this.

I've got my own little crisis going at the moment with my folks. More on that later. FF, check your message board.

You say your dad has mild dementia, but I wonder about that. While he may be perfectly oriented to place and time his reasoning skills and perception of reality seem to have been off for quite some time. The way he seemed to totally ignore the consequences to himself when you were injured is not a rational way to think, unless he was always so self centred?
I hate to recommend you break his heart by hitting him with a dose of reality, but when someone becomes a danger to themselves or others we can not allow them to have their own way.

FF, listen to Cwille. I think she sums it up very well. This is what I see with my mom. She's seems sharp, date, time, place, but won't use her walker or ask Dad to help her down the steps. WELL, I JUST DONT WANT TO BOTHER HIM! I think Cwille has described the NON DEMENTIA DEMENTIA that we see. You may past the tests but your brain just ain't up to it no more.

My parents were really good at hiding their memory issues until the past month when it became evident that it was either dementia or age decline, or both. Good term non-dementia dementia.

Dad never was one who realized how long it takes someone to heal from illness or injury. Mom was never ill or injured in the past 35 years so he had nothing to use as a guide. Even on Mom's first fall where I needed to call 911, Mom bounced back within a couple days after coming home from the hospital... and she went on with her tasks of cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. and firing the Caregivers that I thought she and Dad needed. Guess Dad thought the same would happen on the next 911 fall call.

I have good communication with Dad's day time Caregiver so I will talk with her tomorrow and get her feel of the situation. If we are on the same page, maybe she can discourage Dad from this idea. Sometimes a non-relative can say the same thing and one will listen.

Any chance that you could move dad to be with mom in the nursing home? Could they share a room? And/or would the nursing home even release her back to her home, given your dad is totally unable to take care of her?

I'm so sorry.
How stressful for you!
I agree that if he were there with her, it might soothe him. No amount of reasoning and logic can replace what the heart is missing.
I'd find out if they can accommodate dad and mom in a double room, or near one another.

My two cents is that you don't need to justify anything. When mom was challenging things, I used "The Doctor Said We Have To......" a LOT. No debate about choices. I finally learned the hard way not to engage in discussions anymore. Thing had to be the way they were.

Blannie and Sandwich have good ideas about getting a room for your father and mother together. I'm wondering though if his condition would be sufficient to require the level of care that your mother needs. If so, that would be a good way for him to be with her, although it might be difficult for him to see on a more regular basis what her condition really is.

Some if not most of these caregiving situations are ones in which there often aren't any really good solutions to a situation - I think it's a matter of weighing all the options, and choosing the best and the least upsetting or harmful.

Sometimes I chuckle when I read something in some business or project management article by some techno-wizard who uses analytics to solve life's problems and choose the "best" solutions. I'd love to see some of these people address caregiving situations with their "logical" methods.

I wish I could get my parents in some type of assisted living/nursing home where they could be together. The nursing home probably wouldn't accept my Dad as he is mobile [with his walker], he can shower himself, dress himself, feed himself, fix things around the house, etc.

Now, where Mom's nursing home is located in the same complex as Independent Living apartments, and also Assisted Living facility. But Dad won't downsize.... [sigh].

Dad doesn't have the luxury of demands anymore.
You have to take control of this or it will only get worse. You know that.

When my mom was in the skilled nursing unit, there was another lady there whose husband lived down the hall, around some corners, in the apartments. He visited her every day. When he became frail, he was moved into the care unit himself. He is now in the dementia unit as well. I believe his wife has passed because I haven't seen her around.

A lot of the noise and pushback on downsizing is a distraction. Once he's in an apartment, he won't even remember all that other stuff, much less need it. It's easier to to become less and less physically and mentally agile when there aren't a lot of things cluttering the field of vision and walking path. Anyway, he might be surprised at how much of home he can have in an apartment. Being able to go down & see mom may be such a treat, he forgets about his other complaints.

FF, maybe once you get him to accept that mom isn't coming home you can move on to the next logical step, getting him moved. I can understand that the thought of downsizing would be overwhelming, it might be easier to get him to go if he can be convinced to leave everything behind to deal with "later". Maybe you can convince him to move "temporarily", although that would have been an easier sell before you found the excellent aides that have been helping him.

If I had it to do over again with my mom, I would have moved her, some clothes, some things into the senior apartment and left everything else right where it was. Go through it at a later date without her around to get in the way and be upset about every spice box, Rx receipt from 1995, or rag that needed to go. Having her part of the process was a terrible idea now that I think back. It was so hard on her, but we could no longer hide from it or delay.

She wasn't cognitively able to handle the idea or the process of packing to move, donating, throwing, purging. It upset her more because it was disorienting and confusing, so she had exaggerated and inappropriate emotional responses. The mom I knew when she was my age would not have balked a moment at tossing "old mess".

You hire a moving company to come in and cart everything off to storage that dad doesn't need in Il/al. You tell him it's there, safe and able to be gotten to.

freqflyer, I thought about your dilemma all day. I will probably face this soon. It almost came to this point for us a few months ago. Even my parents doctors had differing opinions. The neurologist said they belong in a nursing home. Their geriatric psychiatrist who is also medical director of a local Senior Living, felt that since they could not be placed together, we should keep them at home together for as long as possible with lots of help from the agency. If you can delay the decision and keep things just as they are until you feel more certain, that's probably best. At least tell dad that you can't do anything until after the holidays. I use that one a lot. After the holidays and after cold and flu season.

I own a franchise that uses highly skilled nurses as advocates. We access the care related needs in a very comprehensive assessment and address care related needs based on financial situation of the client. Our interaction often helps elderly clients work through denial and come up with the best solution for their quality of life. I am telling you this because if you lived in my local area I know we could help your Dad sort through the options and find the best option for the circumstances. Try looking for a Registered Nurse Advocate in your area of this sounds like an option that might help you. This is a very hard situation. I like the idea of locating a place where they can be together, but without knowing all the details it is not possible to know if that could be a reality in your local area. I will pray for your family.

Freqflyer -- God bless you. You have a LOT on your plate here. A 98-year old Mom and a 94-year old Dad who you know is unrealistic in his expectations of taking care of Mom at home. Thankfully (and I don't say that lightly), he is unable to do physically do that. I would make sure YOU talk to the NH staff (administration) about this situation so you and them are on the same page about your Mom's care. You don't want something unexpected to happen like they release her to Dad's care and let her "go home".

You have done a huge service to you, your Dad and your Mom to get Mom properly placed somewhere she is safe and taken care of. I can't imagine how heartwrenching it must be to be separated from a spouse. Your Dad, in his dementia and old age, worries and misses his wife terribly I'm sure. He is surely in denial about his abilities to physically care for her at home.

But you know you've done the right thing by your Mom. Now stick to your guns with Dad. The NH is just down the street. I would have his CNA or aides take him down there to visit all he wants, but keep emphasizing to him that the NH is the best place for Mom to be given the care she deserves. Unfortunately, with his dementia, his reasoning capabilities are gone. You/they will just have to gently keep reinforcing the "best place for Mom" idea to Dad. It's a sad situation all the way around but you are strong and know you are doing the right thing.

It is hard and frustrating, I know. Your "do what you want Dad" comment is proof of that. Hang in there. I hope I will be going to heaven some day because I am living through hell on earth right now. You are too. It's mentally (and physically) exhausting to deal with elderly caregiving and all it entails. I pray so much for others on this forum as many have much worse situations than myself. I feel for you. {{{{HUGS}}}}

I was thinking exactly what blannie said. Sounds like Dad could qualify to go into NH. If they could be in the same room I imagine it would be so comforting for them both. Also, do they have minister, priest, rabi....whatever.....that would speak to your Dad. Maybe Dad could hear Mom's condition from someone like that. Hard situation. But it is time to let know that the decision about bringing Mom home is out of both of your hand's. Can't go against Medical Advice or insurance won't pay for anyone to help at home. At least, that is what I would tell him. Big prayers your way. God Bless!

Thankfully, I am the only contact point with the long-term-care facility and with Hospice. So any changes they contact me, and not my Dad. Whew. So Dad can't kidnap Mom :P If he tries, his Caregiver would be on the phone to me.

I have excellent communications with Mom's facility, like the facility has to call me any time Mom falls, I don't go into panic nor give them the 3rd degree nor get all uppity with them. Dementia and falling just go hand and hand. And I owe that knowledge to Aging Care forums, as I had learned so much here :)

Yesterday my Dad was visiting Mom and he witnessed for the first time Mom having a delirium attack, which is down right scary. I had witnessed that a few times back when my Mom was in the hospital after her serious fall. Now it doesn't bother me, but poor Dad thought yesterday was Mom last day, he wanted the facility to call in a Priest. Now I don't know if what he saw changed his mind about bringing Mom home or not. Time will tell.

Let him call in the priest. It might do some good for Dad to talk to the priest too, a little extra holy water might do him good. Dad is going through his own FOG (fear/obligation/guilt) and feels the need to "fix" things.

My MIL/FIL also both have dementia and lack any reasoning skills as well. I've been trying to follow Teepa Snow's advice, which is to acknowledge their feelings when the express an unreasonable desire (in our case it is driving, in yours bringing mom back home). So you say something like "Dad, it sounds like you miss having mom at home. Tell me about that." Once you get them talking, a lot of times their dementia gets them tracked onto another topic and you can talk about something else for awhile. If not, you put the decisions off to the future in some way by saying "The doctors say it isn't advisable to move her right now because of the extra special care she needs. We don't want to endanger her health. Let's see how she's doing in a week." It is amazing how much giving them a FUTURE YES gets them off the track! It is kind of like working wiht a toddler -- NO just makes them dig their heels in more.

I'm so sorry you're going thru this. It is amazing how with dementia you feel like you're constantly being thrown into EMERGENCY mode.

No, no, no-that would be an epic fail!

I'm not sure the nursing home would release her if she has severe head trauma. Dr. might tell your dad that and it might calm him down. I know he misses her but could it also be that he's spoiled a bit by her and misses her cooking, cleaning, and her taking care of him? If they can afford it, I would agree with moviing him closer to her. That's what we did with my IL's. FIL was in skilled nursing and MIL was downstairs in assisted living but they wanted to be together and facility let them have a double room in skilled nursing so we made it as nice as we could for them as tiny as it was but by golly they were together and it ended up being cheaper, not a lot but it was cheaper. Good luck and God Bless.

Gee FF you have been through so much since I joined this board, and the hits just keep on coming. I like Pargirls advice,, many of the places near us have the ability to take then both, at different levels of care. It's worth looking into, although I am sure you have. Good luck!

Thanks to you all for the really good advice and a few ah ha moments to understand what Dad is going through :)

Dad is one of these physic/engineering type of guys that at work knew what to do but at home Mom had to point him in the direction to go eat, take a shower, go to the doctor, don't wear stripes with plaids, etc.

As for moving Dad to be near Mom, he's is less than a mile from the facility, so it actually takes more time getting Dad into the car then it does driving him there. At the moment he doesn't want to move because Mom wouldn't like living in Assisted Living.... [sigh]. I am giving Dad choices on where to live, as I want him to feel he's in control of the roof over his head since he can afford to do so. Now that could change once Dad can no longer climb up the stairs to the bedroom even with the help of a Caregiver.

FF, just hugs to you! This is so hard.

NO one wants to move out of their home. EVERY one wants to stay at home as long as they can but sometimes thats just not possible for safety sake. I think if you were to give your dad 3 choices of places to live, go visit, have lunch, and then let him make the decision (because you have already checked them out so you are on board) that would help him feel better about moving into a place that he thinks they would like together. However, YOU know your mom will probably not move into because of her condition but he doesn't. I think most husbands think they are going to fix things but women know what the right thing to do is. Not sure I'm making sense here but that's what we did with my IL's. I picked out 3 places that I thought they would like (and safe) and then let them (MIL couldn't really due to dementia) choose. She got the care she needed and he got the help he needed to take care of her. I pointed this out on another question a few days ago but you might tell and show your dad how much it's costing him to own and keep his house....insurance, upkeep, cleaning, cooking, taxes, compared to moving into somewhere he has all of that provided. Anyway, just a couple of ideas to help your dad. It's hard on my dad to see my mom also. She is pretty far along in her journey (12 years) but he now knows she will never come home but at one time he thought so, I knew she wouldn't. Anyway, Good luck and God Bless.....Many, many prayers to you FF

Pargirl, yes you were making sense, it's the old Mars vs Vensus when it comes to caregiving. Most women tend to know what is right :) While Mars wants to get out the tool box and fix whatever the problem might be. Dad thinking with the tool box and not with the medical issues.