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You are the primary caregiver. Mom wants to go. Mom has had covid. Go.
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XenaJada Dec 2021
I agree
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You are smart to be concerned. Omicron is incredibly transmissible! In my opinion, the only way it would be safe is a) if everyone double or triple vaccinated b) everyone does a rapid test before the gathering. My daughter along with 3 colleagues was just infected at a small work gathering (6) where 1 person had been exposed to someone who was positive. There goes our Christmas.
Everyone's nerves are frayed right now. But protecting your elderly mother should be the top priority.
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You don't mention your mother's age nor whether she is stable or terminal.
The whole situation should be weighed on whether the benefits surpassed the risk of contracting Covid 19. If she had a great time then the risk was worth. If she is so sick that nothing cheers her up, then it was a waste. Relatives' conflicts about the care of the elderly are quite common. Do not take it too personal. Apprehension and anxiety among family members trigger arguments. Good communication in the family can reduce the conflicts.
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Well of course you aren't wrong to be concerned for your mother. Your mom may be as likely to contract Covid even if she doesn't attend the party because you and your brother are out, about and in contact with people and touching areas like doors, tables, something on a grocery shelf that someone with the virus has touched, even several people. If everyone can keep a distance and your Mom is ok with that, then let her attend. No one lives in a bubble. I live alone, have really curtailed some social activities but I still have to grocery shop, grab a gas pump handle, etc and I dont always remember to wash my hands. A delivery man drops off a package that I of course pick up. If masked are mandated, I wear one but otherwise it seems after two years of frustration that some are exhibiting, the world will have to somehow live with this like the flu bug and hope for better vaccines that will become an annual shot like the flu shot. And people will die as they do from so many other diseases and viruses. I'd say see what your Mom wants to do, using distance if necessary and wearing a mask and sanitizer near by. I think this is going to be different decisions for different families. Be the first to apologize to your brother, take the high road and see if you can compromise on attendance. If not, and you are the primary care giver, you may have to make a hard decision that your brother may not like. Maybe he should take over primary if he feels he can do a better job. Can't come late to the show and decide who's going to be in cast.
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sp19690 Dec 2021
Lack of hand washing as I have said is the number one reason people get sick.
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No way should you take your mother to these gatherings. You do not need your brother's approval to keep your mother safe. Your mother should avoid even non-COVID viruses. Keep that goal in mind as time goes on, even if today's party was cancelled.
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You are absolutely right. It is very dangerous for her. I think every one is snapping with Covid weariness. My husband and I are elderly, and cancelled our get togethers. So grateful we had a Tgiving gathering. Young people seem safe, let them have their time together. We did have many. I think that we will all get it sooner or later, or be immune. But I intend to postpone it as long as possible. Other people feel differently. It is not an easy death.
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Everyone has their thoughts and opinions. I left this decision entirely up to my 95 y/o mom. She is vaxxed and boosted (not that either makes a difference as far as contracting or transmitting virus). She says if she dies at least she will have seen her family and loved ones and not be sitting in a room with no one around with the same chance of contracting illness should one of her healthcare workers transmit it to her.
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Rick10 Dec 2021
And there is a fact that we don't like to talk about. Two shots, three with the booster, these vaccines are only effective in limiting the symptoms which can still be an aggravating cause of other medical conditions. I have the shots, not the booster yet which I intend to get, but I know it only gives me a better chance of avoiding a hospital stay, or even hospitalization without a ventilator and such. A vaccine that can be more effective it seems is the only thing that will knock out this manufactured virus.
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At the risk of sounding cold hearted, has your Mom lived a good life minus her sickness? Is she close to leaving this earth, if so, than it seems the joy of family would do her wonders if not give her one last fond memory.

I truly understand your place, my dad w/dementia is 93 and he doesn't have much time either. If there is still small chance he can recognize and enjoy the memory than it'll be done.

So, I vote to do what's joyfully the best for your parent.
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Rick10 Dec 2021
Yes, ask the mother what she wants to do.
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Apologize to your brother and Do Not Ever bring up the subject again.

It doesn't matter who is in the right and who is in the wrong.

What matters is this could possibly be mom's last Christmas.

Moms been validated, mom's had covid, ect.

Swallow your pride, don't put rather mom should go or not on your brother's shoulder.

If mom wants to go, take her.

To tell you the truth, your mom has more exposure of getting it just from visiting the hair salon.

If she wants to go, take her and let her have a Merry Christmas.

You can't live the rest of your life under a rock. Scared to go anywhere.

Covid and all of the variants are flu.

Before 2 yrs ago, you either got the flu shot or you didn't. You either caught the flu or you didn't.

Every one wasn't scared into thinking it's doomsday.

Don't make mom wear a mask, it's hard to breathe and it doesn't do any good.

Merry Christmas
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PeggySue2020 Dec 2021
OMG, so for once you're not copy-pasting your rant about how all nursing homes are terrible places full of "feeces" as you put it. Now you are actively spreading disinfo that covid is like...the flu?

The flu killed less than 2,000 last season. Compared to the 800,000 dead from Covid.
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My parents are going to a party. I gave them the facts.
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Absolutely not. He's sick of this? Aren't we all. Just yesterday I heard from an older friend with both shots, boosted and she masks everywhere. COVID-positive and no idea where she got it. Here's a better example: another older friend did exactly what your brother wants--she went to a family Christmas gathering last year. Ended up positive and in a nursing home. Still. Or how about this: my dad died a year-plus ago from COVID before there was a vax. Being sick of this isn't going to make it go away. Nor are the selfish jackass wanna-be badasses I see refusing to mask in my local shops. Sick of it? Yeah. Aren't we all. If only they'd be the ones to get it.
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sp19690 Dec 2021
Your post proves that all the vaccines and so called precautions do nothing to stop a person from getting covid. Either you have good immunity or you don't. People are not being selfish because they are not wearing masks or getting a vaccine that clearly is not stopping the spread of anything.

I also think lack of hand washing hygiene is a bigger problem. And that hand sanitizer everyone uses us not a substitution for good old soap and water.
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If my mom was that frail I WOULD NOT TAKE HER TO ANY PARTY. I would want her around no matter what. In Aug 2020 my mother and husband were hospitalized with covid pneumonia. Yes we are vaccinated with boosters but we don't go anywhere without our masks on even if we get together with family.

My brother in law passed away in Oct had a funeral for him at that funeral only 4 family members were masked and a funeral employee. The funeral was a covid spreader. Who showed up to the funeral were all family members except for 3 people. Seven family members got covid and no there weren't wearing a mask and yes they were vaccinated. So covid will attack anyone even if you are vaccinated. But if you were masked at that funeral it would have given protection. My other BIL was vaccinated we wear masks around him all the time because he has dementia and other lying health problems he was one of the ones that got covid and yes he was vaccinated(Pfizer Vaccine) to this day he isn't right, the dementia progression went faster because of covid we think. Now we are dealing with high blood pressure on him because of covid that he can't have because of seizures and heart attacks.

YOU DID RIGHT by questioning taking your mother to that party and I would think about it with another party. You know you can celebrate Christmas at anytime that is what we are going to do I rather be outside than inside(we live in Iowa so right now its freezing)
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sp19690 Dec 2021
During the spanish flu many people got pneumonia because of face masks. I think many people wearing dirty masks is also an issue. If these things stop covid than one assumes these massacre full of the virus on the outside yet people put them in their purses. Constantly touch the front if their covid contaminated mask with their hands and then dont wash their hands. And no leaving your mask hanging from your cars rearview mirror in the sun does not sanitize it. In my opinion masks have created more issues than they have prevented disease.
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I am a Public Health Nurse. Do not take your Mum to the party. She has serious underlying health problems and is in an at risk group. I’m sorry if your brother is sick of the subject ( aren’t we all!! ) but we have to be careful for a while longer. Omicron is highly transmissible, even if everyone tests before the party unfortunately the tests are not always 100% accurate. Please do t feel bad for trying to protect your mum.
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sp19690 Dec 2021
Nonsense. Once this variant goes away there will be another and another. With billions to be made this will never go away. The WHO just said boosters are creating more problems than anything stopping the spread. And hospitals are short staffed not because nurses and doctors are getting sick from covid but because they were fired for refusing to take the vaccine. At the height of the pandemic hospital staff in my area were being laid off because they were not busy enough to warrant the number of staff and income coming in. This when hospitals were supposedly overrun with covid patients.
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Update …host came down wcovid…party cancelled…same thing happened last yr w same party
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Beatty Dec 2021
😱
In case your Brother doesn't say it, I will: You were right.
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Glad u voted for the smaller gathering. You can keep at a distance and wear a mask.
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You are in a boat with a lot of people - what is the best thing to do. There is also a boat with a lot of people who after 2 years are getting fed up with hearing about it - mind you a lot of people in the first boat are as well, but they just cope with it a bit better. It is sad that it is causing clashes, and you are obviously only looking at the best for your Mum. Maybe approaching it from the what is the worst that could happen, and how does Mum feel about that is less stressful than trying to reach a logical answer on risk. Mum has had covid and she has had all her jabs, her risks of serious illness are low - let her choose, you try and relax over her decision and go along with it. Best Wishes for a peaceful Christmas.
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PatsyN Dec 2021
Umm... she could die?
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Have you decided what you will do yet? (Let me put a plug in again for my idea -- let your B take her to the family gatherings if she wants to go. YOU STAY HOME and get a break! And then let your mother stay with brother to make sure she doesn't contract Omicron. And if she does, she stays with HIM until she's better!)
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Mhillwt Dec 2021
We arent going to Christmas Eve. We might go to Christmas day ie smaller group ie 11 people total but obviously risk still there. My mom and brother wouldnt allow me to be alone. Its really crazy that we are being confronted with this again right before christmas. thanksgiving seemed so normal!
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Ask mom what she wants to do since she is of sound mind and can decide for herself.

I don't blame your brother for getting angry. More people should be getting angry.

First it was don't wear a mask it doesn't do anything. Then it was wear a mask. Then stay inside for two weeks. Then wear two masks. Then get your shots and you don't have fo wear a mask. Then it was you have to wear a mask even if you get your shots Then it was the shots aren't enough get your booster. Then get another booster. How many boosters is it going to take?

The people alive during the spanish flu were lucky because they didn't have to put up with all this nonsense.

How many more boosters is it going to take? How many more boosters are you willing to take?

Until the government stops funding testing and giving financial incentives to hospitals this is never going to end.
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Mhillwt Dec 2021
This nonsense sucks but it saves lives…everyone is angry but no one wants to get sick and die…esp alone in a hospital wcovid
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Keeping her away from that would be wise. My MIL, 82, got it in September, and she hasn't done well since. What's more, she spread it to several members of the family.
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As long as your mom is with it enough, let her decide.

I can totally understand your brother not wanting to talk about it. The subject is getting quite annoying!

Life is full of risks. She could get sick. She could die. She could die tomorrow anyway. She's no spring chicken so I'd say go enjoy a nice event.

My suggestions come along with the ability to say "whatever happens, happens". You can't let her go and then freak out and feel guilty if she does get sick. It would have to fall more into the "she died doing what she wanted to do". I think it's sad to keep loved ones apart. I know - it's happening in my family too and it's heart breaking. But I have to accept their choices.
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Mhillwt Dec 2021
Yes agreed but having seen her fight covid alone in hospital is not an experience I want to repeat again …sge was terrified …better to die when covid ends with family at bedside
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Your mom has already HAD covid. Your mom is boosted. She's old and if she wants to go to this function, I'd say LET HER GO.

The bottom line is this: we're all going to die of something sooner or later anyway. We can stay holed up in the house to be 'safe' and wind up dying ANYWAY. Or, we can 'take our chances' and be with family this holiday season, realizing that this new strain is the LEAST deadly of all the strains, turn off the TV set, and stop letting fear rule our LIVES.

Our choice.

Your brother doesn't want to hear the fear mongering anymore, so honor his wishes and honor your mom's wishes, whatever they may be.
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Mhillwt Dec 2021
She already experienced the terror of being hospitalized alone w no family w covid in March 2020…she doesn’t want to repeat this type of possible death ie alone in hospital …
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your brother is behaving in a silly way. i’m guessing it’s not the first time.

of course it’s ok for you to ask him a question. he should have just replied calmly.

——
regarding the actual decision…go/don’t go.

i’m not sure what i would do.

if the LOs are of sound mind, i’d ask their opinion. if they want to risk it, ok. they might prefer a wonderful xmas with everyone.

at some point we all will die. often one regrets the things one didn’t do, all the missed chances.

if the LOs aren’t of sound mind, i also don’t know what i’d do. i’d try to guess what my LOs would want.

my LOs would want to be with family. :)

it really depends, follow your gut :).
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Has everyone involved with this gathering been not only fully vaccinated but boostered? That's the line that the CDC is telling us to be safe.

But it's a real fine line. Everyone in my family was boostered save two, a 19-yo and a 10-yo. The 10-yo got covid four days before the kid shot came out, which she got.

Can you ask your mom this? Perhaps she feels it is worth the risk to go or not to.
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Mhillwt Dec 2021
All vaccinated but not all boosted
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You were absolutely right to NOT take her to any parties let alone with so many people! Everyone's emotions are extremely high right now!... My brothers never talk to me and could care less about doing anything to care for 'our' mother (she is now 94! and very frail). My mother has huge heart issues and was just out of the hospital and ER twice in a week!!! The nice neighbor who helped my mother in the house after a hospital ER visit, just told me a friend of their's tested positive! I pray my mother (and I will be ok!). He didn't have a mask on... he was vaccinate... but still... you can still get the omicron or carry it. All you can do, is trust your judgment... !... Youre doing the right thing! IMO. It's a stressful time for all of us... but, we can't let our guard down with the elderly!!!
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I think we all need to stop thinking in terms of "right" and "wrong" when it comes to Covid and risk assessment. I think, in part, that's what's lead to this pandemic being so polarizing. You don't think the risk outweighs the rewards. Other people will likely not agree. But think in this term- some people are willing to invest in the stock market, while others choose safer investment options. You don't see people screaming at each other over that. And yes, I totally understand that people's actions can adversely affect others because of how this illness spreads, but (with the exception of real little ones) we all have the option here in the US to mitigate risk by getting vaccines. So be at peace with your feelings and your decision.

If your own, personal comfort level is that you don't feel the risk is worth it, then go with that. When restaurants first reopened, we decided as a family we would not go until EVERYONE in the home was comfortable. It took my daughter the longest to get there, and that was OK, we didn't pressure her.

I'm curious, however, how your mom feels about this? At 85, when the pandemic first hit us, my mother was the least worried of all of us, even though she knew if she got it, it likely would have been fatal.

As far as your brother's melt down, to a certain extent I can understand just not wanting to talk about it anymore. He's agreed with your stance, and agreed to abide with it, however unhappy that might make him. Just as you expect him to understand your emotions about the decision, I think you need to understand his as well. At the most basic level of your situation, you won...so be gracious about it and stop escalating it by continuing the conversation.
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Mhillwt Dec 2021
Doesn’t feel like I won at all…I never said let’s not go,I said can we discuss it…we have spoken about this 2x in the last week and for 10 seconds so he got tired pretty quickly …we went to many other parties w mim this yr before omicron ..
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I would be very worried about taking an elderly person to that kind of event, especially in NYC! We are keeping Christmas very tiny this year in part because of my Dad's health, even though we are all vaccinated. Even a mild case of COVID is potentially fatal for people with serious health problems.
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We just got new restrictions on gatherings here in BC.

My employer is a national company and is shutting down offices as of tomorrow through to January 10th.

When I heard "...the fifth wave..." on the radio I was close to crying.

It has been almost 2 years of anxiety provoking news reports. People are stressed and it hits us in different ways.

One different people have different risk tolerances, family dynamics etc. My uncle has cancer, this will be his last Christmas. His wish is to be surrounded by family. The family is granting his wish. We are double vaxxed, boosters are not widely available yet. My 87 year old Mum will be there, it is 100% her choice.

Mjillwt, you were trying to get your brother to be the bad guy and tell Mum that she cannot go to the Christmas events. He did that, now you are not happy with him. This is your and his stress talking.

Realistically would be up for two busy events 2 days in a row? I know Dad at 92, can only manage 1-2 activities per week and needs 1-2 days to recover. An activity could be going to the doctor or out for lunch.

So what are your options? Do you have technology that would allow Mum to join in via Zoom or another APP.
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Daughterof1930 Dec 2021
I’m glad your uncle and mom will attend the gathering. Good medicine for them both
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You were correct to lose your temper. This is a very important issue. It's likely not safe to take your mom to an outing with 23 people in attendance. I just had to make the decision to bow out of Christmas Eve dinner, Christmas Day celebrations, and a Christmas week surprise party for a loved family member because it's too much to expect a 93-year-old woman and her 65-year-old caregiver to expose themselves during this part of the pandemic (btw, we're both vaccinated and boosted -- further note: my 30-year old niece also vaxxed and boosted just had a breakthrough case of Covid this week). If your brother doesn't get risk vs. benefit he needs to read up on it.
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The entire country (world?) is experiencing what you are and I think we can only do what we think best for ourselves and for elders entrusted.
For myself, at 80 and partner at 81 his children and grandchildren will be with us, a total of 11 people in a very small flat, and for the most part in one room of that flat. We have skipped a Christmas and decided not to skip another. All are triple vacc'ed. We have test kits (the instant 15" ones that can be iffy as to accuracy) and will take upon entry into house.
I have had now to ride crowded transit, masked and etc. So basically hoping the omicron is as relatively less lethal as it appears to be.
Our peak comes in 6 weeks. There are two theories now by the experts. 1) Omincron is so much less lethal and so much more a spreader that we will ALL get it just as we all get the common cold, but those of us with vaccine will not die of it and those without vaccine are much less LIKELY to die. Omicron means the end of this pandemic as a killer because the virus just morphed into a variant more spreadable but less lethal, and that will mean we get herd immunity without death. The number 2) is that we are in the most dangerous place of all now in that if a link comes to link on to this easily spread one (think common cold) then we are looking at many deaths. Only time will tell.
Meanwhile you are where we ALL are. Knowing only what we can know so far in something very new to our generations,and making the best decisions we can. There is no need for anger, but some will insist on being angry. And that is the way of life. I think Christmas puts an onus and burden on us to "make nice" and let's face it: life isn't always nice. Good luck and best to you for a good holiday and no illness for anyone you love.
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notgoodenough Dec 2021
And I think we have to start re-imagining a world where Covid will become a yearly thing, like the flu. And what that's going to look like going forward.
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You’re not wrong to worry about your mom’s health. And we’re all tired of Covid. Balance out the risk to mom vs the enjoyment she’d have from seeing people. I know the instant reaction is to say stay home, but I do believe there are times for our elders to not miss out on life’s enjoyable moments in fear of what may come
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