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My parents moved 2 years ago about 1mile from me so I can be of more help. Dad has dementia, can't drive and has failing health. Mom took him back to their former state of residence to visit other children, 4 times last year, retuned and was sick for months afterwards, and spent thousands of dollars taking my grown brothers and sisters out to eat. She finally made the decision not to travel because of dads health. I manage their money because she cannot (paying excessive late fees, she does not Remy to pay). Yesterday I got a text from my brother that he is driving down and picking mom & dad up and taking them to Indiana, mom had called and asked him to do so. She is going against her own decisions, doctors advice and family members recommendations not to travel or stay longer than a week. Not to mention the whole famy was driving 9 hours to see them over Thanksgiving and this brother has no problem accepting large amounts of money as "gift". I'm so frustrated, this is same pattern and they will return and I will need to cart them to three doctors appt a week for months.

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Do you really think you can take care of mom, too? No way...you'll burn out.
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Sounds to me like you're looking for sympathy, and you certainly deserve it. It must be frustrating to watch your siblings take active control over your parents, knowing there will be consequences for you when it's all over. That said, perhaps you can minimize the fallout by stating your objections now, preferably in writing (emails are great for that), so that you can make your point after the fact, as well. And I agree with Joysissy - if there is disposable income, your parents should be looking at hiring a paid helper. Also, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "let the chips fall where they may." Sometimes, it's all about guilt.
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To Gladimhere - we're all human and we're all susceptible. This is in regards to Lewy Body Dementia and Alzheimer's. Same with Falling Down; it just doesn't happen to older people and they get messed up, younger people fall and get messed up too.
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Hey, I think you are all a little hard on her here. I agree with the posts but even a POA doesn't give anyone the right over someone and their money. Its there as a tool. My suggestion is to talk to the brother and explain the situation. A trip this close to Holiday that everyone plans on coming for, will not be good for your father. My Mom gets overwhelmed if too many people are around so taking him from a trip right into people visiting may be too much. You may want to mention that your Moms spending could interfer with either them getting help with Medicaid.
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I intend to move to another state as I have two senior complexes interested in me - let's say if one is not to my liking, I can always move to the other. Or the two could switch site managers. I get really good vibes from one of them where other one goes strictly by the book at the place where she is located. I had to send some papers off to her stating proof that I have some issues and that a disability oriented complex would be good for me.
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"If they have that much $ that they can give it away, then they should start giving it to local taxi drivers." YEP. A common frustration on this forum. My mom wants everyone to think she's just scraping by on her monthly SS. Truth is, she owns 3 properties free and clear (2 are income-producing), has $300K in her IRA and no personal debt. Gives $1000s per year to her church, EWTN and various charities. (The spend-down police will have a field day with her, should the time ever come.) Yet mom has been flushing her toilet with a bucket since April because she "can't afford a plumber." Good grief. Which brings me to another commenter's point about tempering and re-phrasing our "should" statements to our elders. Excellent advice. I know that when my motor starts revving, I easily forget that the delivery of my message is just as important as the message itself. Thank you for that much-needed reminder. Case in point: Looking back, I know I didn't give mom my 2¢ about the toilet as sensitively as I could have. And right or wrong, I also set a boundary. I refuse to use the bathroom when I'm at her house. When I have to "go," I wrap up my visit. (When I was a little bit younger or a lot younger, if anyone told me that this is my future, I would have laughed them out if the room. Now here I am. Just like so many of you. God bless us all.)
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I suggest taking charge of the money and the checkbook also. There are so many scammers taking advantage of people like your mom, she can loose everything!!!
Make sure all the checks are still in numerical order in the book. One can be taken from the center and you will never know it. You can report financial elder abuse to the KEEP-SAFE coalition. Their number is (310) 701-8118. (Stands for Keep Every Elder Protection, Stop Abuse and Exploitation. Letty will put you in touch with the right people. Good luck.
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Elders can whip themselves into emotional frenzies, and can imagine all sorts of things. They can work one family member against the others, in their fear.
Be aware of this, too.
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That is to say, the above post is pertinent, IF you believe, have information, indicating this brother might try to take total control and dump them in a facility.
OTherwise, family socialization could be a good thing--it just needs to be at their home-area, not taking them out-of-state...traveling can very often upset what's left of mental balance and info processing abilities, in those already fragile.
You have some big decisions to make.
Please get help from Elder-law, APS, etc., as might be needed.
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I would NOT wait until after telling Brother that I was getting a restraining or protective order to prevent taking the parents out-of-State!
Just get the Restraining Order, and quick--before the Holidays...which means you are almost out-of-time.

YOU are the one who is trying to keep their affairs in a rational order. In essence, you are the parent , now that they cannot care properly for themselves.
You wouldn't give your child access to all your money...right?
Neither should you allow parents who cannot take care of their affairs, access to their funds. That's why you were asked to take care of that.
And, it might make one or both of them angry; it might make your sibs very angry.
But bottom line, this is about appropriate care/handling for your parents.
IT's your sib's parents, too...if they don't care how the money disappears, they also then don't care about how your parents are taken care of...as long as it doesn't cot them anything, and they might get something.

Do all of you realize, States can, and do, pursue repayment of State Aid given their Elder? If it "misused funds" are connected to any family members, such that Mom and Dad no longer have money to take care of their needs, then those who received the money, are complicit in defrauding the State.

Though you currently control some or all of their finances, by brother [or anyone else] moving them to other State, then taking her by the hand to new lawyer, he can execute a new POA for everything, taking total control. He might possibly think that if he takes the money out of another State, and then dumps them in a facility using welfare funds to pay for it in another, think again...States might be slow, but they still hunt down repayment...believe me...saw CA hunt down a so-called 'derelict dad" over 45 years AFTER he'd been unable to pay child support; CA attached his SSI check, took the whole thing for many months, and tried to come after taking his current spouse's SSI as well....it was bizarre, and rather illegal, but the State had finally found their mark, and taken action--however illegal it might have been. Worse, that couple were State Aid recipients in WA, so, CA was expecting WA to support the couple entirely, while CA took both SSI checks [which were very small, anyway].
Further, State might come after ALL the kids, including you, not just the one who took control. Each of you would then have to lay your finances bare, to prove you had nothing to do with the loss of funds, to try to prevent State from attaching each of your incomes to repay State.
By attaching your income or forcing sale of your business, they'd force you into being a State Aid recipient--States don't want to do that.
Just be informed.

IF relatives take out loans in the elder's name [like Credit Cards, mortgages, anything], by leading her by the hand...that borrowed money is "Income" per the IRS; unless it's repaid, it's taxable income from their estates.
Quite a Chess Game.

Only you can discern what your Brother is likely to try to do.
Only you can take protective measures, NOW. Not later...later's too late.

Be VERY concerned about the spending of Assets related to getting State Aid/DSHS. Her spending money foolishly, can block State from giving needed Aid, until enough time passes State feels those funds would have been normally spent-down.

You can also report to APS.
Let them know of the fragile health of Dad, the long illnesses for both parents after the last prolonged trip, and potential scamming by relatives to get their money.

Good luck! Hope it works out OK in the end. Sounds like your folks need full-on POA locked-in. Please take whatever steps you think necessary, to help protect your folks, and their interests.
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Call your brother and explain this trip is better off not happening for your father's health and safety. You can say the same to your mother. His safety and health matter to you.
Does your mom have social connections other than you? She may need time on her own for a few hours to do her thing. If your mother wants to stay connected and visit family in the future, arrangements can be made for your father to stay in a place that can handle his care for a few days. It's expensive but worth it to give caregivers much needed respite. My mother in law did this a few times at the late stages of her husbands Alzheimer's. She also had him in day care a couple of days a week so she could do things she needed to do.
Other people had good advice about the money issues.
If you are helping them out, you are allowed to set the terms of the help you can provide.

I was sucked into my mother in law's care during an emergency and it never dawned on me I could say no when I needed to. Now I have a list of things I do and set times when I am available. I'm still the good daughter in law but I have my own life again. Boundaries are good for both of us.
I wish you luck. Sounds like you want what is best for them. Keep telling yourself and them that.
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One idea might be to handle and think of travel, doctor visits, and finances separately from each other. If she wants to visit your siblings and enjoy life, and they're willing to do it, maybe try to actually enable that as much as possible vs. block it, but with requests if needed for their health/convenience/finances. Socialization is important, life may be short, and they are their kids. Who says a long life lived "safe" is better than a bit shorter life fully enjoyed? Maybe she should have some spending money, sort of an allowance. It is their money but with an eye to possible future expenses, too. YES protect her from being taken advantage of. One credit card or Cash card or even cash she gets to carry with a low limit is one idea. It's a tough line to be responsible without controlling everything. Talking to your sibs about how much care costs and the payback/penalty may help. I was supplementing my parents' mortgage and learned our mom was writing checks to my sibs at the same time. Her whole life she wanted to provide for them. They should have had a hunch, but weren't aware (or didn't admit knowing) until I told them it was as bad financially as it was. Maybe they think there is more than there really is. For certain though pay any late fees from your parents' account, not yours, unless it was your fault they were late. As for the doctors appointments, getting sick happens. You sound very frustrated, and you are probably worried, but there's a big difference traveling on say a remote ship cruise vs. visiting your own children by car or a short flight. An all-or-none tough-love approach to providing help sounds controlling and may backfire leading her to switch DPOA, etc. and your sibs thinking you are the one taking advantage of her/keeping them from her. From her perspective a mile away vs. the same home if they can't drive, she can't leave your dad alone, and she's not in her familiar community to have friends visit/help sounds very hard. Is she scared? Isolated? Misses her kids? Talk with her lovingly about your concerns and hers and the future. It sounds like you both need a break. If taxis and uber aren't options, maybe find someone like a neighbor or responsible student who can help drive to appts and to run her errands and to socialize a few times a week for a pre-arranged fee. You sound very responsible. Take a deep breath, separate what you can, and hopefully even more possibilities will come to light.
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Cak, dementia does not discrimate against the young. I have a friend that lost her son to Lewy Body dementia earlier this year. He was 24, diagnosed at 18. Now this same friend has a daughter diagnosed with Lewy Body at 26. There is a woman in Texas, I think, in her 30's I think, just had a baby in the last year, earlier this year diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
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I don't understand what it is about traveling that makes these people sick for months. Did someone have a pulmonary embolus from DVT? Even if they caught colds from everyone they saw, how does that lead to as many as 3x per week doctor visits for months? I don't automatically see a direct connection between traveling and being sick.
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As a care manager I would like to suggest that you contact an elder law attorney for your area. Call your local Bar Association to find one. It is important to learn what the elder law in your state can help you with.
You can also call the local chapter of the Alzheimer's Association to speak free to a counselor who can assist you in learning how to handle communications with your family. Otherwise you may lose the ability to become the the single point of contact for your father.That is the most important issue. You could become your father's guardian. An elder law attorney can help. If you are in charge of finances you ought to have a Durable Power of Attorney Agreement stating that you are in charge of finances and healthcare. Again an elder law attorney can help.

There probably is nothing you can do about your mother unless of course she also has dementia. Good luck!
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I personally try not to use the word "should" in my vocabulary. It feels as if I'm judging others and I do not feel too good about it saying it to myself, and/or others. I don't have the right to be judgmental - especially when in need of help for myself. I kindly offer a suggestion: Could saying, "I know its difficult for us all; I love you and hope things get better for us all." Just saying. . . Those beautiful words can make a difference when we get overwhelmed or stressed, or even frustrated with situations like the ones you expressed. Hope it helps if you try it - especially, "I love you"! Its just my humble offering to you. Regards!
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It is difficult when children have to say no to their parents, especially when there is dementia involved. Both you and your brother may be suffering from the "can't say no" complex with your parents.

Unfortunately, you have to say no to your brother & to your parents when they come back, if they come back. If your brother is going to pick them up to take them to another state, and then they want to come back, you have to say no to their 3x/week doctor's appointments when they get sick, etc. At this point, you have to question if your mother's behavior is being enabled by your behavior----driving them all around when they get back in town. If your mother is of sound mind, you should explain to her that you will not be their taxi if and when they come back they'll have to take a taxi to their appointments. If they have that much money that they can give it away, then they should start giving it to local taxi drivers.

Nobody can take advantage of you unless you allow them to.
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When you were young and sometimes foolish, What did your parents do ?
Thats probably the training you need to use. Consequences effect everyone.
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Maybe it's time for another sibling to move closer to you or your parents or for your parents to be moved closer to one of them. Or discuss with your siblings the need for one or more of them to come stay with your parents when and if one of them is going through a period of serious illness, hospitalization, or nonstop doctor's appointments.
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I wonder how old you have to be to get dementia. I read in the paper about a girl who was only in her mid '50's and she died of it; her brother and sister in law were friends of mine.
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I have tried to read the other posts but excuse if I double up..[my vision is going] What your heading should have read is. BOTH my parents have dementia, My mother is very active with hers. My father isnt.
Have your mother see her doctors and have her mentally assessed.
Then go from there
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I know all about farm work .Raised on one all my life now small house farm but also 70 now. Next to oldest of 12 so I know about it. Don't give up Get help ask pastor of church or any church.
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If you have POA for handling financial decisions, does it also include all the other benefits. You could refuse to allow your brother from taking your mother and father out-of-state. Just go to a judge, put an Order of Protection for them, and a sheriff will serve him when he gets there (all you have to do is tell him you will do this). I did it against my brother for smoking in my mother's house when he lived with her (she had dementia), and the sheriff kicked him out of her house. He died and we never spoke after that incident, but I was protecting our mother. Do what you have to do!
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I have no new htought sot add but just want to confirm th egeneral opinion.

It is so easy for family situations to tip into disfunction. If you are running a farm, you deserve a big pat on the back, help, and cooperation. Demand it!

See a lawyer, get papers signed, and take charge!
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Who are you afraid of upsetting?Brother or Mother?certainly not you.If she is giving money away and then your having to take her to appts. what gives. If she has that much money then why is she applying for help?? That goes for your dad. It effects him? Sorry to say. You need Help and NOW. Check with SS aids and assistance and GET HELP- .Don't be left out. Cause it looks like your brother could be trying to come in the back door for your folks and their money.
just saying-GET HELP.
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The only one you might be able to reason with here is your brother. Maybe you could convince him not to travel with your Maybe you or your brother can get poa and have some control. Someone needs to have the power to make decisions for her, she is not capable of it.
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"Mom, you can't have it both ways. Make a choice here; either I'm in charge of your money or you are, not both. Yes, you are old, and you done em to be understanding the implications of giving money away, whether to charity or to your kids. It's going to mean NO MONEY from Medicaid when it's needed for dad's care. You need to make a choice here".

" mom, if dad is sick from taking that trip, then you need to take him to the doctor in a cab. Have the doctor call me during the appointment so I can participate. No, I can't take you, I have to run the farm".

I'd also get mom worked up for cognitive impairment and/or dementia.
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I agree with the others. My dad passed.away almost 15 years before my mom did. My advantage was being an only child. Mom and I were close enough that I could talk to her reasonably and lovingly. So, taking over her finances and credit card payments when she was in ALF was not a problem. She had no concept of money! The part of your situation that I can really relate to is trying to manipulate me and depend on me for many things that were covered in the ALF. So, to reinforce what others have said, setting boundaries and tough love were what saved my sanity and, surprisingly, allowed mom and me to enjoy our time together more. Just let her know that you have a life and responsibilities of your own and can't do everything she wants when she wants. Emphasize that you are doing the finances because of love and concern for her, and set whatever boundaries you need,,,and stick to them! You will both benefit from the tough love. Love and prayers to you. I understand.
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If you are in charge of finances, does that mean you have POA? I have to agree with others that this trip is unnecessary, but if she goes you keep her credit cards and checks while she is gone. She sounds like she may have a bit of dementia with her decision making skills. If she doesn't drive either why are they not living in Independent Living where transportation is provided for errands etc. for a fee? If not let Uber take them where they need to go. I realized months ago that when I take dad to appts. that I decide when he goes and space them out to fit my schedule unless it's an emergency. Because he has dementia, he can't go alone, but I set boundaries in when I can do it. I'm not a full time taxi service.
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Once you get those big girl britches on, you and this brother need to have a little throw down about gifts and trips. She spent thousands on going out to dinner?! I don't know how you're going to do it but you need to get control of the money before it all gets wasted on this crap. Given your Moms state and Dad with Dementia they will wish they had those thousands of dollars for care very soon. Good luck to you
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