My dad in 2017 had opened a joint account with me and deposited money into it. All of the funding for this account came solely from him. I put no money into it myself.
My parents both fell ill at the same time in 2018 and we started Medicaid planning. My mom at the time was much more ill than my dad and needed a full service nursing home, which we got her into. Then my dad suddenly passed less than a month later.
The lawyer I used counted the joint account my dad opened with me as an illegal transfer under the 5-year lookback for Medicaid. I am to use the money to pay privately for Mom's nursing home until I spend down enough for Mom to qualify for Medicaid.
I had accepted this, and then happened to mention it to a second elder care attorney who I went to see for another issue. That attorney said that the money should not have been counted toward my mom's assets because it was a joint account that my dad had with me and if he passed then it should have rightfully just been mine.
I really don't know who is right and am not sure if I should try to recover the money. I am inclined to believe Lawyer 1 but I would be really curious what other folks who have knowledge of this think.
Thanks in advance.
And even though I skimmed through the responses twice, I didn't see any mention of your mother having dementia, although I could have missed it. Is that an issue?
Trusts can be useful, but sometimes they can be cumbersome, especially the tax issues.
Yes, the step-up issue is the reason I can't sell the house until Mom passes. This was one issue that both attorneys actually agreed upon.
You are correct, my mom does not have dementia. She has had psychotic depression for which she has been in mental wards before, but this is well managed now with medication. The reason she needs SNF is because of her physical condition. In short, she can't toilet herself, lift her arms or walk.
I agree with you, I think trusts are great if you do the painstaking work of finding an attorney who does them well and communicate with the trustee and intended beneficiaries before the fact.
When Dad died what DID you do with the money. How IS the money distributed. I think that is what will matter most now. But you are correct. Two legal opinions. I would be the last one to want to be the judge to say one is right and one is wrong.
When I gathered everything for Medicaid, it was my understanding that I had to report all accounts that had my dad's and mom's names on it, whether specifically joint or not. It never occurred to me to not report this account. Even if I wanted to not report this account, since Medicaid looks at five years of tax returns too, this would have shown up on them because it was a savings account that earned interest. It ain't no hiding anything!
I had never even thought about it until it came up in conversation inadvertently about six months later with the second attorney. Honestly of course it would have been nice to keep it but I had followed the advice of the first attorney.
Trust-mill attorney! That's the first time I have heard that term, and my parents had one too! The kind that sticks flyers in doors and hosts free "seminars" at the local diner. They put their house in a trust twelve years ago but no cash. They thought they were doing their kids such a huge favor with the house is in the trust but it is the albatross of my life. I can't sell it until my mom passes without incurring an onerous tax bill, but I can't rent it out because it's in terrible shape. So I have been sinking money into it trying to get it somewhat decent enough to rent out. I have had to remove mold, install new toilets, fridges and stoves and it still needs various repairs. I have one sibling who is an absolute saint but two others who are downright nasty and I deeply resent having to deal with the nasty ones just because my parents were naive and thought everyone would get along even after I repeatedly asked them to reconsider that. It's been awful and I expect it to get worse after my mom passes.
I suffer from depression and anxiety, and this kind of thing is a real drain on my mental health. I hide this from my mom as best I can, and I understand she's not going to disinherit any of her children but it still makes me angry. Medicaid applications are a stressful enough process but I could have also used that joint account money to protect myself from these two jerk offs, one of whom has already tried to threaten me with big-man-on-campus attorney letters.
It makes me glad to hear that your dad did well in memory care. I hope my mom (she's 86) lives 20 more years at least. As stressful as this crap is and as angry as it makes me, my mom is much beloved and I want her around.
Both of these attorneys bill themselves as experts in Medicaid/estate planning/elder law and have been in practice for so many years but I find that there are so many grey areas with these things and sometimes I feel like everyone just figures it out as they go. I considered trying a third attorney but I'm just so weary of this all.
There have been so many complications with my mom and dad's planning. They thought they were helping us, but all it has done is cause a lot of stress.
The only good thing is that my mom is doing phenomenal in the SNF.