How do I come to terms that I hate my narcissistic Mom (80)?

Sounds like you would benefit from seeing a therapist to help you detach from her and defuse the buttons that she presses inside of you which she put there when you were a young girl.

There are plenty of articles here about dealing with narcissist parents. Do a search in the search site box in the upper right hand corner for more information about dealing with this type of verbally abusive parent who emotionally blackmails their adult children with Fear, Obligation and Guild, F.O.G. Good luck and let us know how you are doing.

Cmag has given solid advice about finding resources to seek the help you need, but what you really need to do right now is change your phone number or block mom's calls. You do not have to endure that kind of abuse, and if you really are "done", then that's your first step, and getting therapy to stick to that decision is step 2. You can also just not answer the phone or turn the ringer off. Answering the call is a choice. You can you only help your mom if you are willing, and it's obvious you no longer are willing. Drawing a line and not crossing over it -- that's what NPD people understand and just about the only thing that will work with someone like that. Best of luck finding you way through this!

That you are in this state is Not Your Fault. But now that you recognize what is going on, you may need help to detach from your toxic mother. Seeing a therapist who is experienced in helping families of narcissist people may be just enough support to get you through this.

Best wishes to you!

Cmag- yes, I do need a therapist- I know that but am dr. averse for a lot of reasons -I am a psych major in college and they won't say anything I don't already know - the "buttons" are in place and I'm having difficulty not responding to them --zookeeper - I wish I could " block" or not answer the calls, but since she is my only communication as to my fathers health and well- being in the ALF, I cannot do that---- I keep my phone on vibrate only bcuz the sound of ringing gives me anxiety- she is increasingly becoming unhinged since she has never had to live alone - I notice this with many calls-- she has always been "served" "taken care of" "bullyied everyone into getting what SHE wants" ---- now all that power is gone cuz she's alone - so the bullying has taken over in the form of phone calls to her adult children about how miserable she is be cuz she's "grieving" the loss of her spouse who's in ALF -- I think she's resenting having to deal with her responsibility --- never been a nurturing person - now having to "care" for someone in this capacity is not what she is able to do ---- cracking up mentally I'm pretty sure.

Why is she your only link to information about your father? Can't you call him directly? Can you meet with the social worker and/or his main caregivers at the ALF and ask for updates when something changes? Can you call them periodically?

I don't mean this unkindly, but needing to accept Mother's phone calls in order to stay informed about Dad sounds a whole lot more like an excuse than a reason.

See a therapist. Even if you already know what he or she is likely to say, having the support of someone else saying it can be very valuable.

I agree with Jeanne - you can get the info about dad directly from the care center or hospital. Change your phone number or just don't answer it, unless you really are not "done". If you do not set some boundaries and hold them, you really have no one to blame but yourself.

It's one thing to know something and another thing to have someone encourage you and help you apply what you know.

Even therapists go to therapists about their own issues just like doctors go and see a doctor when they need to. Do what you will, but I would not advice someone to try to be their own therapist.

My wife has a PhD in psychology and use to teach different kids of college level psychology courses, but she's not clinically trained to do therapy. She found it helpful to see a therapist in dealing with her own family of origin issues, mainly her narcissist mother.

Is your mother living at home while your dad is in assisted living or do they both live at assisted living?

Plz, you are SO wrong about therapy. Sorry, I have to be that blunt. If you think that being a psych major in college has anything to do with the healing transformative properties of good therapy, you haven't had the experience. You're scared to try. That's completely normal for someone who has such a damaged mother child relationship. But please give it a go.

I have to second what Babalou said. I was also a pysch major in college, plus I'd been through several years of therapy in my life before caregiving. Nothing prepared me for the pain and confusion and frustration and anger of being expected to take care of a narcissistic parent who didn't seem to know I was alive unless she needed something. I have been in therapy (again) the last three years and it has really helped me with reality testing, setting boundaries, and maintaining my own sense of worth in a familial micro-culture that expects me to sacrifice myself for the benefit of a toxic person who offers me nothing in return. There are powerful forces at work her, and not for your benefit. You need help in fighting them.

OMG carlacb wish we were friends growing up!!
Finally read my entire childhood in print!
I feel so heard and no longer alone.
My brother's recent passing has completely changed the dynamics of our relationship.
It took death to break the 60 year cycle!!

Plzhelp, keep in touch and let us know how things are going.

Cmagnum- you seem kind. Not sure how helpful this forum is - not too many kind answers other than yours. I'm in a difficult situation - no matter how I speak to mom, she takes everything as a hostile response - always been a domineering sort, and it's hard for me to get out of that cycle - she has absolute say on everything about my dad so I can't call ALF and get info ergo I need to answer her calls - it's a bad scene and to my detriment, I pray that SHE just dies and goes away- would make things much easier on the rest of the family

My MIL has a phone in her assisted living apartment. Does your dad have a phone?

Do any other friends or family live near where your dad is in the assisted living place who could check on him and report to you without informing your mother?

How far are you from where your dad is in assisted living?

Are you financing your own way through college and completely self-supportive?

It's not easy to get out of the emotional dance with a narcissistic mother. There are four hard to swallow realities about a narcissist and or borderline for that matter.

1. You didn't make them the way they are.

2. You can't fix how they are by doing something that will make them the loving parent that they never were.

3. You can't control how they take everything as a hostile response.

4. All you can do is to place yourself on a healthier path than the one she is one with a take no prisoners outlook regardless of what she does or does not do.

Two things you can't afford to do with an emotionally abusive parent. 1. Over identify with their personal problems. 2. Remain fearful of them as if one was still a little child who needs to keep mommy happy.

I'm going to conclude with several posts from another thread about the following that you may find helpful to read.

The Power of Emotional Blackmailers.

1. Who is feeling this?

2. What it is?

3. What is its effects?

4. Who is doing this?

5. How do they do this?

6. What are the origins of this?

7. Why it is so victorious?

8. How it’s defeated?

9. F.O.G.y parents.

1. Who is feeling this?
The person being emotionally blackmailed is the one feeling the fear, obligation and guilt.
2. What it is?
Emotional blackmail is a powerful version of manipulation by making us feel 1. afraid of crossing the person. 2. obligated to give them their way to keep from provoking their anger, and 3. terribly guilty if we don't.
It is a thick and engulfing psychological F.O.G. that blinds us from seeing what they are doing.
3. What is its effects?
Thus, we walk on eggshells around the person and our compliance rewards their emotional blackmail. Every time we reward their efforts by being compliant, we let them know that they can do it again. It eats away at us until it puts our relationship and our whole sense of self respect is in jeopardy. Thus we get locked into an emotional dance of letting them control our decisions and behavior.
Basically, we come to feel insecure, unimportant, unworthy and generally bad about ourselves. We begin to doubt our own ideas and needs. We become isolated. We may have physical ailments or reduced mental health due to the stress. We may even betray and abandon our relationships with other people in our attempts to placate the emotional blackmailer.
We get trained by the emotionally blackmailer to constantly seek their approval, to do our best to avoid their anger and keeping the peace at all costs, and to take the blame that is not ours to take.
Our sense of obligation to them and to keeping the peace becomes so strong that it is more powerful than our sense of self-respect and boundaries of self-caring. Emotional blackmailers work toward this goal and take full advantage of it when accomplished.
4. Who is doing this?
The person seeking to emotionally blackmail us presses our emotional buttons in order to get us to feel fear, obligation and guilt.
Very often this emotional blackmailer has a great fear of abandonment and deprivation. They often feel the need to be the one in control, feel desperate, and are frequently frustrated. Usually, they have been a victim of emotional blackmail themselves; have learned how to do it; and see that it works to get what they want. However, they are so caught up in themselves that they don't think clearly about the reasonableness of their demands. They are skilled at making their demands sound very reasonable although they aren't.
They have different styles. Their pour boundaries leads them to sometimes combine one of the four basic styles with another one.
First, there is the Punisher who lets us know exactly what they want, the consequences we will face if not complied with, and are the most obvious as well as strong. They either express their disapproval in explosive aggressive anger or in smoldering silence. At the most terrifying extreme are threats of physical harm.
Second, there is the Self-punsiher. They turn their threats inward on themselves by threatening what they will do to themselves if they don't get their way. They are drama queens and kings with an air of hysterical crisis which they blame us for creating of course. They often will enmesh themselves with us because they struggle with taking responsibility for their own lives. The most frightening extreme of this is when they threaten to kill themselves if we do not comply.
Third, there are the sufferers who are talented guilt peddlers and blamers. They make us figure out what they want and lead us to conclude that it is up to us to get them what they want, even if they have not told us what they want. They are pre-occupied with how terrible they feel and interpret our inability to read their minds as proof that we don't love them.
Fourth, there are the Tantalizers who will put us through a series of tests and hold out a promise of something wonderful if we will just give them what they want. They are the subtlest blackmailers who promise all sorts of things with the clear understanding that unless we behave according to their wishes, we will not get the prize. Everything from them is seductively wrapped with a web of strings attached. Many will seek to make deals of emotional payoffs, castles of love in the sky, unconditional acceptance, family closeness, healed wounds, and other appealing fantasies whose admission ticket into only requires one thing, compliance. They have not intent on following through with their fantastic promises for once they have what they want, they have won and we are left with broken promises.
People with various personality disorders are predisposed to inflicting emotional blackmail such as persons with obsessive compulsive disorder, paranoid personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder. Those with a borderline personality disorder tend to do this more impulsively instead of making a plan like those with a narcissistic personality do.
What they really need deep down inside is legit, but the problem occurs in how they go about trying to meet those needs by being insensitive to the needs of others in doing so as well as being insensitive to how others are reacting to their manipulation or that it is not right to make someone their emotional hostage.
5. How do they do this?
The basic threat of emotional blackmail is that if you don't do what I want, you will suffer the consequences. They know our vulnerabilities and they use that knowledge to shape their threats to give them the results they want, our compliance. Knowing that we want their love and approval, they will threaten to end the relationship if we don't give in or make us feel that we must earn it by being compliant. They will often use money like threatening to change their Will to get our compliance.
They will regularly discount our feelings and wants by calling us selfish when we express them and claiming that we must no longer love them. They will either say or imply that they will hurt themselves, kill themselves, or become depressed if we don't give into their demands.
They create undeserved guilt by blaming us for whatever is upsetting them or for whatever problems that they are having. There are not statue of limitations as they create this neutron bomb that wears away the trust and intimacy that makes us want to be with them.
They spin our conflicts with them into being examples of how misguided and off base we are while they claim to be all wise and well intentioned. They spin any resistance on our part as evidence that we are flawed, not them. Their spin serves to discredit our perceptions of how the situation really is by challenging our character, motives and worth through labeling us as heartless, selfish or worthless which are very hard to withstand when said by a parent.
Others pathologize any resistance from us as an example of our being the sick one or crazy. Being pathologized by a parent or spouse yields a devastating blow to our sense of self and confidence and serves as quite an effective toxic tool which makes us doubt our memories, our judgement, our intelligence, and our character to the point where we may even doubt our own sanity.
6. What are the origins of this.
Emotional blackmailers hate to loose. For them, it is not important how they play their game as long as they don't lose. To an emotional blackmailer, keeping our trust, respecting how we feel, or being fair does not matter. The usual give and take of a normal, healthy relationship does not exist for them for it is all about them, what they want, and their getting what they want for themselves.
7. Why it is so victorious?
When we have an excessive need for approval from others, an intense fear of dealing with anger, an overwhelming need for peace at any price, very deep self-doubt, and a tendency to take too much responsibility for other's lives, we are both easy targets and easy to keep in such an emotional prison.
These traits make it extremely difficult to break free even when we are aware that we are being emotionally blackmailed because their pressure sets off almost programmed responses in you that sends you into auto-pilot and impulsive reactions to comply with our abuser.
Another issue that makes it so victorious on some people is something called co-dependency. This involves putting a lower than normal priority on our own needs while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.
The above is a summary from Susan Ford's book, Emotional Blackmail: When People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You. It also includes some input from my research online.

Here is a link to an interesting blog about The Narcissist's Child and Emotional Blackmail.

narcissistschild.blogspot.

How it’s defeated.

Defeating emotional blackmail in our lives does not mean changing the person doing the blackmailing, but involves changes inside of the person being blackmailed. Since this involves internal changes, it is a very difficult thing to accomplish and very often requires the assistance of a therapist.

So, how do we stop enabling the manipulator’s emotional blackmail?

1. We must recognize our own part in this psychological/emotional dance that by complying with it we have been rewarding bad behavior.

2. Stop focusing on their behavior and thinking that their changing will make things better.

3. Accept that they are how they are and are very likely not going to change.

4. We did not make the person doing the emotional blackmail the way they are. We can’t change them nor can we fix them. All we can really do is to place ourselves on a healthier path of living. We can change how we react to their emotional blackmail.

5. Recognize that our experience of emotional blackmail has contributed to our being in an emotional state called the Stockholm Syndrome which enables the belief that our escape is impossible. The Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological response seen in abuse victims where the victim is loyal to and often defensive of the abuser. It is an emotional bond formed between the victim and the person in power as a survival mechanism.

6. Recognize that the belief that our escape is impossible is a false and irrational belief. We are not helpless. Change and freedom can, must and will start with us.

7. Promise yourself to no longer let Fear, Obligation and Guilt control your life.

8. Learn and practice the necessary skills and strategies.

9. Learn from your lapses into being controlled by F.O.G., hone your strategies and refuse to let mistake allow you to give up.

10. Take good care of yourself during this process and acknowledge as well as encourage yourself for making steps forward no matter how small.

11. Remember that the abuse we experience is not our fault. We do deserve to be treated better.

12. Set new and reasonable boundaries for the relationship.

13. Set concrete consequences for if and when these boundaries are broken.

14. Instead of answering or complying immediately, buy yourself some time to think and come up with an appropriate response. For example. “I don’t have an answer right now. I need some time to think” or “I’m not sure how I feel about what you are asking. Let us discuss this later,”

15. Detach or let go of your emotional ties to being controlled and become an objective observer by questioning your thoughts and feelings as well as those of the person seeking to inflict emotional blackmail. This is a process. The longer you have been complying with their demands, the more self-discipline it will take to no overreact or be triggered. Also, focus on the demand at hand and not all of the past history. This is a key area where a therapist can be very helpful.

16. Avoid using defensive communication techniques that only serve to escalate the conflict. For example, “I’m not selfish. How can you say that about me?” or “How about the time I…….”

17. Use non defensive communication techniques to defuse or reduce the conflict. For example, “I’m sorry you are upset.” “I can understand how you might view it that way.” “Really? That’s interesting.” “Let’s talk about it when you feel calmer.”

18. Stay call, don’t argue, don’t defend, don’t explain, always stay polite, and if possible use humor.

19. Use the suggestions from Susan Forward’s book, Emotional Abuse: When People Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You, for responding to catastrophic predictions and threats; to name-callling, labeling and negative judgments; and to the deadly whys and hows-demanding a rationalization and explanation for your decisions.

20. Dealing with the person who expresses their anger covertly through silent sulcking are quite a challenge. I found the following suggestions for dealing with this type online.

Frist, don’t expect them to make the first step. Second, don’t plead with them to tell you what is wrong. Third, don’t keep after them for a response. Fourth, don’t criticize, analyze, or interpret their motives or inability to be direct. Fifth, don’t willingly accept blame for whatever they are upset about to immediately get them into a better mood. Sixth, don’t allow them to change the subject. Seventh, don’t let the tension and the anger in the air get to you. Ninth, don’t let your frustration cause you to make threats that you don’t really mean. Tenth, don’t assume that if they ultimately apologize, it will be followed by a significant change in their behavior. Eleventh, don’t expect major personality changes, even if they recognize what they are doing and are willing to work on it.
Instead, confront them when they are more ready to hear what you have to say; reassure them that they can tell you what they are angry about and you will listen without retaliating; say reassuring things like “I know you are angry right now, and I will be willing to listen to this as soon as you are ready to talk about it”-then leave them alone; and accept the fact that you will have to make the first move, most, if not all, of the time.

21. Face the reality that not all relationships can be saved for the person will just continue to break your boundaries and keep trying to emotionally blackmail you. For the sake of your own safety and health, try hard to recognize early if the relationship is even work working on.

22. Remember that no matter what happens, you can handle fear, you can handle frustration, pain, big losses, anger, sadness, embarrassment, responsibility, and guilt.

23. Don’t expect there not to be some resistance to your boundaries, taking better care of yourself and setting consequences for when and if your boundaries are broken. They are use to having you under their control and they are afraid of losing you and your compliance for without your compliance they are powerless.

24. Change is a scary word for many of us.

25. Change will not come by gaining insights into the various dynamics of emotional blackmail.

26. Change will not happen just because we understand why we dong the self-defeating behavior that we do. Understanding alone will not make us stop doing them.

27. Change will only happen when we change our behavior!

28. We have to take the first step down a new and healthier road!

These suggestions come either from Susan Forward’s book, Emotional Blackmail:When People Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You, and from various site online on this subject.

I have found myself thinking about dysfunctional families with parents and/or siblings who use emotional blackmail against us via the ingredients of F.O.G. (fear obligation and guilt).

First, thinking about that led me to coin a new phrase F.O.G.y parents and F.O.G.y relatives. The emotional blackmailers who use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to manipulate and control or at least try to even when there are good boundaries.

Second, thinking about this reminded me how hard it is to make even the smallest choices like taking baby steps in a new direction contrary to the F.O.G.y relative or some other F.O.G.y person(s) in their life is.

Third, thinking about this led me to write a new post in the "On My Mind" section of my wall that says " In offering others help be wisely caring while being empathetically compassionate Let them know you care regardless of their choices."

Plzhelp, regardless of your choices, we still care about you, want to hear how you are doing, and are here for you whenever you want to come buy to vent or whatever.

Maybe this is the cycle. I think Im starting this with my kid........ Teenage years? I don't know, but now I see this in print.... I hope my kid doesnt grow up to resent me.. spouse and I are taking care of both our moms and my aunt...Our child has to deal with our struggles and ups and downs.....All geariatrics are in board and cares, but we still need to make sure they know we are there.....It doesn't get better.... except my mom cant talk anymore, ALZ

Plz, I'm sorry if you view some of our posts as being unkind. If your father is still competent, he can sign a HIPAA form for you and you can speak directly to AL about your dad's medical issues and avoid some of your mom's drama. Limiting contact with her is probably best if you don't have tools to deal with her manipulation.

a lesson could be learned from the recent air tragedy in france . the girlfriend of a german man who died in the alleged suicidal jetliner crash said she finds it hard to harbor animosity towards the pilot because of his extreme mental illness .
once i learned that my mother had late dementia , then educated myself a bit about dementia i found my moms horrific mood swings much easier to deal with .
as far as someone pushing your buttons -- those buttons belong to you , you can and should know how to shield them .
elder care will wreck your head but with a lot of reading and effort you can approach it as more of a task and learn to overlook the moody phsycobabble .

When people criticized me for not being at my mthr's for holidays - because I was protecting me and my little people from her - I started saying things like, "Undiagnosed mental illness is so hard to be around." It worked to self-affirm that I was doing the right thing, that I was protecting my babies, and that it was not anyone's fault that we could not be around her.

I like the idea of you visiting in person with a HIPPA form for you at the nursing home and for the Primary Care Physician's office and what ever hospital he would use as the case may be. Competent or not, get his signatures on the forms, copy them, and fax in one to each office and keep your other copies safe. Then you can get info direct from the horse's mouth.

I eventually learned that I could not trust anything my narcissistic mthr said. She would lie about people's health status to get me worked up, when there was nothing wrong with them. It's best to get that HIPPA signature just to be able to get first hand info even if your loved one were not connected to your narc!

I have a daughter who fits your description of your mother to a T. I needed to go for therapy to deal with her "situations" about seven years ago and have only one thing to say: WHY didn't I do this sooner?????? It was so helpful. And now I continue to visit the therapist when anything comes up with her. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Oh, yes, and insurance pays for most of it. My co-pay is $10. I can hardly believe that. Money well spent.

First of all, no one has the ability to "make" you feel anything except the way you "choose" to feel. If you hate your mother, tell her, and you do not want her to call anymore. Simple. Otherwise, do not assess blame to her while you are the one who is "allowing" her to get under your skin. At 55 yrs. you should have realized YOU are the only one responsible for what you feel & think.

your not alone with those feelings. I have a father who is so dependent and wants me there morning, noon and night...He can do for himself but does not want to because of some excuse...He is demanding, selfish and I can never do enough to please him...I too feel that hate which in turn makes me feel guilty. I do not have any answers my friends tell me to set limits as to what is expected of me. I have tried to hire help which he refuses and says he doesn't need help he has family. My dear lord.

My mother is a narcissist who has consistently psychologically abused her children. She has been living in a nursing home for eighteen months due to dementia and was transferred recently on account of her aggressive behavior. She may have had a bad reaction to the meds they were giving her, as her health has degraded.in the past week. They have cut back on the meds now, and wait and see if things get better. It has made me physically sick to see her in that state. Yet I know exactly what you mean when you say you hate your mom. I also understand why you don't feel like going to see a therapist, but I also think that you need all the external support you can get.
I can only tell you that you are not alone and that any negative feelings that you have towards her are healthy feelings. You should not feel bad about limiting contact as much as possible. Please take care of yourself.

Cmagnum certainly seems to know what he is talking about. Right now you are in a crisis and for your own mental health and happiness go talk to someone. Go a few times, you may be suprised with tjeir thoughts and ideas to get you to a place where you are happy and can deal with your mom. At this point it can't hurt. God bless and good luck.

I don't agree with the view expressed by Ferris1 that one chooses how to feel and nobody else can control that. I think we can choose what actions to take in response to our feelings, and we can certainly question ourselves as to whether our feelings are truly appropriate and warranted in the given situation. But in terms of allowing someone to get under your skin, I think that's a very hard thing to control and I'm not sure it's even a good idea. Feelings aren't facts, but sometimes they're valid clues about what's going on and whether it's something healthy for us or toxic for us. A lot of my mother's behaviors really irk me, and those behaviors are indicative of her character and of her feeling towards me, and what irks me is that I'm spending a lot of time and energy on a self-centered person who has little regard for me apart from what I can do for her. Those feelings are important, and I've dealt with them by withdrawing a lot of my energy from her, especially in cases where I know I'll be ticked off if I go along with what she wants.

My mom is similar and you feel like nothing you do is ever good enough. Deep inside them someone wounded them years ago; they too did not get the positive love they needed, so in order to feel better they beat those around them down to nothing. As hard as it may be, take a DEEP BREATH, and give back love, smiles, reassurance and thoughtfulness. I'll tell you why..it will totally confuse the toxic person and they will begin to mirror some of your behaviors. THIS IS DIFFICULT TO DO, because we are so used to being defensive and weak. Give back love, agree, smile, comfort and you will be SHOCKED at how they respond. Moral of the story - don't let their toxic behavior become yours; it's like you are drinking the poison and expecting them to die. Let go of negativity and you will soon feel better about YOU and that's who this is all about..do not continue to live in the victim world!! Love who you are and remember all those other people in your life that also love you.!! Hope this helps. I had a fabulous counselor that saved my life!!!!!!!

Ohhhh I don't know, verbalmyrtle. With my narcissistic parent, love and smiles only reinforce in her own mind how wonderful she is and how everything she does is just fine. Yes she responds agreeably to it, but I don't think feeding her narcissism is really a good idea in the long run. She has enough trouble understanding that other people have feelings without people going out of their way to deny or falsify theirs.

Carla, I agree. Being nice to my narcissistic mother reinforces her attention seeking. She is nice to people to get something out of them and she tends to think that others operate this way too. I also agree about choosing responses as opposed to feelings. I have PTSD from childhood emotional abuse and although I have worked on myself with regard to that, those feelings still surface sometimes. However, they are useful in that they do warn me to keep my distance in/from toxic relationships.

Carla I feel you have just described my MIL, and yes we are totally feeding her narcissism as she cannot stand criticism in any way. My mom is a bit different, in the sense that non-validation is key. Every time I have gone out of my way to do something special for her, she has found a reason to be unhappy. If you bring her what she has been asking for weeks or months, she will say that she really wanted something different. Whenever I opened my heart to her (which is what she really craves ) she acted bored and unconcerned. Some people really feed on others' unhappiness so I am not sure that it is a good idea to project love and serenity with them as it enrages them and makes them attack you until you lose your temper. A blank face is much more helpful with them.