Child chooses to move near elderly parent to give care and is wanting move costs, a house and salary from parents money. Greedy?

* sigh *
they think prayer will restore worn crankshaft bearings and low oil pressure .
never has and never will . jesus wears neoprene flip flops -- hes a century or two behind cast steel and babbit bearings , and in fact thinks neoprene is the greatest thing since air thrashed wheat ..
they should pray to someone with a crankshaft lathe ..

great advice from all involved . my oldest sis started harking about money for a house so she could move closer to mom with mom only having a 6 month life expectancy . i had to ask advice from our attorney , flap my arms around and make a bunch of noise and mom gave me " the " official checkbook to display in my bedroom . ( altho she had one also and her bank card ) . mom knew she wasnt firm enough to turn down their delusional con artistry so we faked a financial power grab by me . it worked out fine . they recieved reasonable fees when they helped out and in looking back were too f*cktarded to care for themselves and could only stare in slackjoweled disbelief when the dementia going really got complicated . they now have a house but the last chuckle will belong to me as the chicken and pie eatin m - f ' ers fall thru the floors of the old modular . ( moms house ) . the oatmeal board flooring is meant to last 27 years , 26 of them have elapsed . lol
sour grapes ? nope . fact .. multiple members of this family have been injured multiple times by falling thru the floors of muliple old mobile homes . theyre not smart enough to stop eatin or to fix the floors ..
ill bet they will make difficult care recievers , much less effective care GIVERS ..
kinda sad really . i remember as a teen observing BIL one morning staring aimlessly into the steam coming off of his cup of coffee . a slight head turn to the right showed his oldest son doing the same with his steaming oatmeal .
crazy people . i keep low powder , rock salt shotgun shells around here to keep em off my hill . the poor b*stards think im firin at em out of mistaken identity . they leave , thats all that matters ..

Whitney, she is willing to help out, as you say; but based on the OP I'd lay a pound to a penny that within weeks reality would dawn and she'd find it beyond her. Thank goodness she's too expensive!

v22 I hope everything works out well and harmoniously from here. Best of luck.

At least this sibling is willing to help out, and do the "hands-on" work. Do the other siblings live in the area where they could help out some with the hands-on work? Do they visit fairly often if they live out of state? The other siblings must have some free time. Could there be a compromise where the hands-on work is divided between the siblings?

I'm glad you got it straightened out so easily. I have a feeling that this was best. She may not have been a very good caregiver.

POA sibling after consultation with others did offer an upfront financial package (over 2 yrs salary) plus the new house (of their choice) rent-free as long as care was provided by this person. It was rejected as the person could not "afford" to accept. Obviously, the move was totally depended on underwriting the whole family. We are looking into professional care-givers. Having a family member as c-g seems nice but we can pay a professional many years for what the family member was expecting upfront. Live and learn!

Caregiver daughter and two other adult family members will rely on elderly mother for support!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell the quasi welfare queen that her and her adult entourage to use their own assets to live off of!

v22 - if your mil does have dementia, it WILL progress. The doctor seems to believe that she does have it. As others have mentioned, her care needs will change and increase greatly. That needs to be factored in. Also, be aware that the time lines of the disease are unpredictable in that she may stay somewhat stable and independent for years or may deteriorate quickly. Your mil has one plan and the expectant c-g has another plan and they don't mesh. You say there is grief involved - perhaps your fil has died recently and mil wants family closer. That is understandable and maybe her needs to see family more can be met other ways. The expectant c-g does not sound like the right person to care give. Many of us spend much of our own money looking after our parent/inlaw, not that I am against proper compensation for care givers. It sees to me that the c-g sibling is looking to improve her own life, at her mother's expense, rather than improving her mother's life. Well done for taking a practical view of this situation and looking into the various implications. Let us know how it all pans out.

The medicaid look back on gifting in Florida appears to be calculated by dividing the total amount of gifting by $5000 and the answer is the number of months that the person is disqualified from assistance. Gifting of $100,000 divided by $5000 = 20 months penalty which starts from the time you apply for assistance not from when the actual gifting was made. So this is a very important part of any decision. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. If the dementia would accelerate then care costs would be left to the patient.

If your MIL wishes to give her financially-strapped child a gift, and she has the resources to do so without affecting her own security, and she understands what she is doing, that's fine. It is, however, an entirely separate issue from that of her own long-term care needs and the two matters should not be linked.

C-g sibling, it seems from what you have said, has not the first idea of what she might be taking on; and from what you've said about her circumstances… Well. If you were describing the ideal candidate to take charge of MIL's care, would this person fit the profile? Au contraire, I suggest.

The sibling with POA should as soon as possible conduct a detailed review of his/her mother's assets and income and research/cost out her likely future care needs. By emphasising to mother that this exercise is for information and contingency purposes only, and is not intended to be acted on unless and until necessary, s/he might be able to get mother's active co-operation - a highly desirable bonus which would benefit everyone concerned. There's nothing like knowing for sure that you're acting on your parent's informed choice to set a POA holder's mind at rest.

If anyone still feels like helping out the (non!) c-g sibling with cash or advice, then good for them: it sounds as if she could use it, and the additional motive is that the mother would be relieved of natural worry about her child. Doesn't matter how big the kids get, mothers are still going to worry - so all reasonable efforts to help should be made.

Good luck to you! Would you be so good as to keep us informed about how this plays out? We learn from each other.

Thank you everyone - you are echoing what the family is saying. The gifting and medicaid I will look into because no one has thought to do so! I really appreciate all the input which helps me to know the up front terms in this situation are not normal!

Child is a greedy little snot. Tell little miss muffet to stay on her tuffet. If you give her all that, make sure you report it to the IRS so she gets taxed. Then go get your head examined.

I have long been outspoken in my belief that family caregivers should get paid, to the extent that there is money available for that. If your sister-in-law moves and spends time keeping an eye on Mom, she should be compensated. As the care level increases so should the compensation.

But I can't imagine what would justify providing a house! If SIL wants to move, she can sell her house and buy another one. If she loses on the deal, then I can understand her parents perhaps wanting to chip in the amount she lost, out of the goodness of their heart. But this expected compensation package seems way over the top, to me. And it seems to me it would be unfair to the other siblings.

This whole picture would make a little more sense if this daughter was particularly close to her mother, and reuniting them would be a dream-come-true for Mother. It doesn't sound like that is the case.

And just deciding you want to be a caregiver does not qualify you for the job. Mother may need only slight supervision now, but that can change rapidly and dramatically. What if the caregiving does not work out in the long run?

I say, pay for the caregiving on an as-you-go basis. Pay the going rate in your area -- the same you would pay for a professional. But do not pay up-front bonuses like moving expenses and a house. That just sounds crazy to me.

In my opinion, it is a huge mistake to give one of the children a part of their inheritance early. There is no way of knowing at this point how much will be left to distribute. Care as dementia progresses can be VERY costly. That money should be available for Mother's needs. There is no promise that each child will get a certain amount. If this daughter gets $325,000 now, and after Mom passes the other children each get $30,000 (or $3,000) how will everyone then feel about the house deal? Is that what Mother would want?

Pay the sister. Pay her well. If she resigns from the caregiving, stop paying her. Don't do an early distribution of the estate!

Whatever the siblings decide to do, they should visit an attorney specializing in Elder Law and put the entire arrangement on solid footing.

Could be...or could be the only way she can afford to do it, buying the house seems a bit much and maybe should reduce share of inheritance a little...but don't devalue the hours of caregiving in the equation. Maybe get a third party to objectively assess the finances before agreeing to it all, and you ought to do it for documentation/avoidance of "gifting" penalties if Medicaid will ever be in the picture.

Sorry there are just too many if, ands and buts here. If daughter wants to move closer, fine but that is her choice and her financial responsibility. She could make the move and decide caregiving is not for her within a few weeks or months. You indicate there wasn't a close parent-child relationship. This plan is doomed before the first box packed!

At some point in time dementia patients need 24/7 care and it is certainly not a one person job and definitely not for the faint of heart or emotionally fragile.. Is this daughter the only option to be of help to Mom? Has she caregiving experience? She is bringing family that her parents are to support? Are they in need of care as well? If not, why aren't they going to work?

I would give her this website address and ask that she spend a few days reading all the entries. Caregiving is something most of us do out of love and compassion. It is always more than we bargained for in the beginning and a lot of times there is more heartache than joy.

I cannot imagine asking my parents or family to be so financially involved in a decision like this, or in any part of my financial life for that matter.. There is more to this story than meets the eye...imho.

I am going to skip all the details and just say my "red flag" went up when I saw this person wants money "up front." I think this person is not sure what she is getting into. I think there should be maybe a trial period. I think it is excessive, because caring for someone who is caring for a memory loss patient not only needs to help with memory, but will be needing to be proactive as the memory fades. I also imagine that she will be called on to do more as time goes on. I didn't know what I was getting into, and I am a bit doubtful still if I will be able to do this when my parents get completely dependent on me. this is just my opinion, I hope it helps.

Thank you for all the responses. The parent in question is happy for the child to be closer but does not want to hire her in anyway, give a large loan (failed to mention that previously) or hire her as a caregiver. She is open to buying them a house as part of her estate so they will move closer. Budget approx $325,000.
We believe the parent is heading towards dementia issues and doctor has confirmed the memory loss, confusion is more than recent grief issues. AL would be in the future and all the costs. Currently she wants no assistance, care or intrusion into her affairs. But we know she needs someone checking on her well-being, driving for her etc.
POA held by another person so that is good.
Sibling is asking for approval because after everyone was happy about the proposed move, it became clear that living of c-g and several adults of her family would depend solely on parent for support. No one else in her family is intending to work. They have a house elsewhere and assets which they do not intend to use. To get the big financial package which starts at $500,000 to set in motion, the proposed caregiver needs POA sibling and others to agree. That's when problems started. The money requested and the ongoing salary would quickly deplete the available funds. Future health issues could leave things financially uncertain.

It seems like either a third party geriatric care manager should be hired to monitor things and make sure care is being given.

Or a lump sum only should be proposed to the caregiver to assist in the move & new house. No other promise of funding and some guidelines as to the care & commitment expected for the money given.This would avoid frequent wrangling over money?

As far as the reliability of proposed c-g. I think there is a strong desire to do so, though the parent-child relationship has not been close. I think the c-g is unprepared emotionally for it and is fragile under stress and change.

I am an in-law so I am trying to find a solution.

We would all agree that mom needs someone close. The full ride financially being requested by the willing c-g seems excessive given, 24 hr care or live-in is not on their minds.

Look at it from your mother's point of view, not from the aspiring caregiver's point of view. Is it in your mother's best interests for this family member to live near her and support her living in her own home? How do the costs compare with those of other options, such as ALF, hired caregivers, etc., etc.? What are your mother's likely care needs looking ahead? Don't forget to give a nominal value to things such as living in her own home, continuity of care*, emotional connection and so on.

Once you've got all the options on the table, costed out - and yes of course bearing in mind that these can only be the roughest of estimates - then you will be able to see whether the plan proposed by sibling is

a) in your mother's best interests
b) in your mother's best interests subject to negotiation of certain terms, e.g. house purchase? Nice work if you can get it!
c) a complete non-starter.

* Is this sibling likely to stay the course? Any doubts about that and the whole plan falls flat.

From the concern you mention about the c-g sibling becoming 'too dependent' on your mother, it does sound as though you're not convinced of his/her 100% reliability?

Does anyone have POA?

Lastly, but of course most important of all: what does your mother think?

If mom need 24/7 care, then perhaps daughter would live with her. Buying sister a house is out-of-line in my opinion, but if purchased with Mom's funds, with Mom's name on the title, then go to the estate would be another consideration. If mom needs 24/7 as deemed medically necessary by her physician, and if daughter lives and provides the necessary care for a period of two years, then daughter could have mother's home deeded to her that would not be subject to the five year Medicaid look back in some states. Check your state's Medicaid rules.

But then you have a sibling that is providing care simply for the financial benefit, perhaps. Is that the best situation for Mom? Does sister have the emotional strength to provide 24/7 care. If you do this I would hire a geriatric care manager, an impartial third party, to complete monthly checks on Mom's living situation.

And on deeding Mom's house to sibling, look at it as a way to preserve assets, that could be equally divided at the time of Mom's death, less the cost of care (off the top) that Mom has received going to the sister.

I think it best that you all get your heads together and decide what is reasonable. If she is not moving in with your mother, I assume a full-time caregiver isn't needed. Since your sister wants to consider the caregiving as a job, it should be looked at that way. Considerations should be how many hours she will work and what the cost would be if you were to hire an agency to do this. The number of hours may change as your parent gets older, so the money can change with time. Purchasing a house is a big question. Perhaps if you go that way and your parent has enough money that Medicaid will never be needed, you could purchase a house in your mother's name so that it becomes part of the estate. I admit that your sister seems to be asking a lot, but we don't know the entire situation.

There's not enough information for me to form an opinion. Has the "forgetful" parent been diagnosed with any kind of medical condition that will get worse over time? Does the parent want the arrangement you describe? Why are the siblings being asked to "approve" the costs? Can't the parent make his or her own financial decisions? So many questions... I'm guessing you're one of the siblings who are opposed to this plan.