Flowergirl, I know, I was totally discouraged also but maybe in your situation or State, its different so check it out. Attorneys are usually free for the first consultation. I worked fulltime moms first 3 years with me and used Daycare. I had a woman help her dress and get her to daycare and I picked her up at 2:30pm. Then her assets ran out and I retired to take care of her. I didnt want to, it was much easier working to tell you the truth, but I wont put her in a Nursing Home. Yes I am lucky, I have a great husband who works. I never even thought of it for the money to begin with. I was just totally blown away how the siblings did zero to help with Mom yet asked for their money from the sale of her house. The attorney told me if I gave them some (because I wanted to keep the peace) I would be liable, its against the law because they are not beneficiaries until Mom dies. As the POA I could have gotten in big trouble. Did you try for a VA benefit? Some States, like Ma, give free care and pay you 18k a year for taking care of your sick parent. Keep researching and best of luck, I know just how you feel. I miss my job and my life, but I do have to follow my heart and give her the best care I can. I heard if you move in with your parents for 2 years then you will own their house. LIttle did I know I would be in this for so long, and I am even more attached to her now, shes my buddy and smiling at me right now next to me. priceless. If I can help more email me.
Mom is nice. When my child turns 18 she is on all titles etc. She is the only one I got, and tag, she is it. She will have cart blanc with me, If i get ALZ. I will leave it at that....Let God take me peacefully, please....Everyone get your DNR on record. It makes things easier - I think
Wow, that was pretty discouraging Reverseroles. You were lucky you had enough income of your own to put the money she paid you "in a separate account." I'm not that lucky. I need it to help pay the mortgage, groceries, car insurance, utilities, etc. So, I guess I'd better start keeping track of the things I actually assist her with that she can't do by herself, hugh? The list is growing for sure.
Just saying what I learned when you apply for medicaid (if you do) If you plan to use your caregivers contract as a spend down. You may be surprised. First of all, without your parent being unable to dress, eat, bathe, walk, is incontinent, etc, its not 24 hour medical care. She/he must be unable to do at least 3 of those things or more verified in writing by a doctor. Medicaid asks is your DAILY records. How long did it take you to feed her, bathe her, dress her, change her diapers, etc? You only get paid the hours you are doing things, not for just being there. Just being there all night and inbetween are daughterly duties I was told. Normally out of 24 hours you get paid about 8 depending on the severity of your parent's needs. Research all of this and see a lawyer to do this, its worth it to cover yourself completely. Even though my mother now will qualify for medicaid they will only give us 2 hours of care a day (maybe), and its whomever they want to send to my home. I prefer to hire my own help for Mom , someone I can trust and who has learned from years with my Mom helping me. All of the caregiving money I received from my contract I put in a separate account. Once Mom's assets were depleted, I used that money to go right back at her for her. I got nothing in all actuality but had she died the siblings wouldnt have fought me over it. Seeing as they havent watched her for 1 hour in 7 years, they are getting what they deserve, nothing! At this point, I think Moms going to outlive me some time. lol Good Luck caregivers, keep your chins up!
No, my Mom can't do her own errands, but I am leaving her alone to do them, and I also have a 2-3 hr. a day job which I have to leave her alone. She has her Lifeline and I figure she could fall even if I were there, and they call me first when she presses it. So if anyone wanted to get technical, I am only with her 21-22 hours a day....big difference! Yes, her investment money is running out, but she still gets almost twice as much as I do from Social Security, so she can still help me with the bills once that other money is gone. My brother is so worried about that too- he wants to keep an amount saved for her in case of emergencies, but I think it's so he and my brother get something when Mom dies. I had borrowed money from Mom and Dad over 20 yrs. ago and my brother thinks that I should get nothing due to me still owing it. Mom said she wanted the IOU ripped up but he hasn't done it that I know of. She knows what I do for her on a daily basis, but I don't get why she can't relay that to my brother when he's here, which is around twice to three times a month for a total of 3-4 hours. He also is POA, which worries me. I've asked him a number of times if he'd stay the night here with her so I could go see my grandkids and my best friend and spend the night- 3 hours away....and it keeps getting pushed back and back. I guess I should be more assertive. Hope it can be done soon, because I am getting a little burned out. But, I love my Mom and she took care of me when I was little and I'm just returning the favor- or whatever you call it. I am alone since I am divorced, so it's nice to have someone to cook for, although there are nights when I don't feel like cooking and have to come up with something! There's always toast with PBJ.
Dixielicious - When my Mom had the nerve to suggest that I should be paying her "rent" I made out a bill for her. It included all the groceries that I buy, she never pays for anything, gas to take her to her many doctors appointment, the yardwork I did since she fired the gardener when I moved in and the amount of cleaning I had to do to make the house livable after years of neglect. I also gave her the bill for my nursing care since I am a RN and used to make $50/hr for the work that I do for her for free. It ended up with her owing me about 2000/month. That pretty much shut her up.
Make sure your Mother needs 24 hour care, with doctors written paperwork. If your Mom can live alone, you arent considered a fulltime caregiver. I say this because you said you do her errands. I cannot leave my Mom to do errands, unless I hire someone to be here with her. Hope you know what I mean. Get a good lawyer and as I tell my own kids and friends, the caregiver should be the DPOA. Saving receipts is good but who has money to go to court and fight for money, do it now, not after.
I draw a disability check and Mother lives on her and Daddy's Social Security. There is strictly no money to give but my thing is...I gave up my life to move in here with and care for her, lost my husband and any chances of going back to work. She expects me to pay her. She makes triple what I draw on disabilty. She has no idea of what all i do to keep her here at her home. As I said I have no husband or siblings so I am the caregiver, the housekeeper, cook, home repair man. the mechanic, the errand runner, the laundry doer,the groundskeeper, the babysitter to my 4 yr old grandson,and the doctor taxi, etc. The list goes on and on. I honestly feel like i shouldn't have to pay 1/2 of all the bills. I need to be working my part time job just to make ends meet here. What I am asking is this...My dead sisters son is going to get 1/2 of this property (that I have to keep up alone) when Mother passes. Is it to much to ask that I get the entire home and land it sits on if he doesn't help pay for home repairs and help care for her ? This really urkes me that he doesn't even help cut the grass. I know Mother sees me as her baby but I am almost 50 years old and this is really running my body and my mental stability in the ground. I just don't know how much longer I can be super woman. I'm tired.
Yes absolutely, I had a contract written up. I paid 30% taxes on it and saved it in a separate bank account. Once Moms money ran out, I used that money for her again until that ran out, Its a cycle. I wont apply for medicaid. I like to hire my own private caregivers and am keeping her at home for the long haul so she can keep having one on one attention for the rest of her life. She was a fabulous Mother, she deserves it. We are left with the va and ss and thats enough to give me a break and buy her supplies usually, if not, I pay the overage. Had Mom passed before her money ran out, the siblings who did nothing, would have gotten their equal share. I dont believe in equal share unless there is equal commitment. good luck
Thanks gladimhere - I have been thinking the same thing for the last couple of months. I am drafting a letter to my sibs that gives me the home if my Mom goes before I do. Right now I think she will probably outlive me anyways - haha. She has plenty of money for assisted living ect... I do not care about the money but want a place to live for what I am doing. My Mother wants to stay in her own home and I want to make that happen for her. She has her own personal registered nurse on call (me) 24/7 but does not even think about paying me for my time. So sick of this family right now and am really tired of being walked all over.
Had enough, believe me I understand your concerns because I am living them! It needs to be addressed NOW! If it says until after Mom passes then you will need to file a claim against her estate. Is there a chance that something may happen to Mom that would require a facility? Does she have resources other than the house? If she needs facility and does not have resources to pay for her care? In many states not even Medicaid would kick a family caregiver out of the house if they provided medically necessary care for a period of two years. The agreement can be documented between you and mom's POA, or drafted by an attorney. You need to protect yourself!
I hear you gladimhere. My sibs keep promising me the house ect but I have an ugly feeling that when my Mom is no longer around that will change because they will want their share. My dilemma is do I demand it in writing now and deal with their "hurt" feelings that I do not trust them and the awkwardness it will cause in the family. We only have a few years left with our Mom and I do not want them filled with resentments but cannot figure out a way for it to be a business agreement and not some drama filled family tragedy.
Had enough, all too often us becoming caregiver is a result of an emergency of some sort. Not a planned change in our lives. In my case sibs wanted to pay me in the beginning. I told them we would need a care agreement first, and we would wait a few months, then revisit. Well, here we are three years later, still have not been paid a dime, attorneys involved, three of them now. And this could have been done for a couple of thousand dollars had sister POA just carried out what she knew Mom's wishes are!
Wow I wish my Mom or sibs would cut me a check every month. As it is I am spending all my income while Mom's coffers just increasing. I guess the sibs who have not helped will be coming for their share. If I had it to do over I would have an agreement before becoming a caregiver. My advice would be to have an attorney look it over and it should be fair. I got totally screwed by not being proactive and demanding that I be paid for what I do and now I feel stuck.
what about payments for food and household upkeep? I am the POA and write out checks to myself and my brother who lives with my father. I write out checks once a month for the amount it takes to cover food for my father, care for my father's cats and other household items. Basically grocery expenses, but rarely that writing out checks for every grocery store visit I just do them once a month.
What really makes the family situation blow up is siblings expecting that you SHOULD do it out of the goodness of your heart! That way, at least, their inheritance is not impacted which is what most siblings are concerned about. But ask them to assist, nosireesir, their lives are much too important!
It would be interesting to research non-paid 24/7 family caregivers to find out their situations. How many are married, already have retirement or coming up on it, have decent Social Security income (if there is such a thing) or were able to save substantially for their own retirement. How many are well off and can afford to provide the care without payment?
All good advice here. I am doing this out of the kindness of my heart and I also feel obligated to do it as it is my dad. I have been saving every receipt and he pays my existing bills right now but complains about it sometimes. I can see we need a written agreement. I don't think he realizes what I am giving up so that he can stay in his home. You definitely should get a written agreement. I am going to get one that also spells out what has been agreed on so there are no issues with my sister down the road. My dad refuses to go to a nursing home and sometimes he acts like he is saving me since I had lost my job just before he got sick, which makes me angry because I am the one sacrificing everything to come live with him and care for him. If I had not been here he could have injured himself or been dead or they would have put him in a nursing home which would have just about drained his money by now. Am going to work on this agreement today!
OK, my Mom's already been living with me since Nov. of 2012 and we've only had "verbal agreements" on my pay. I have a brother who lives 90 min. away and one who lives 1700 miles away. Both have POA and I don't. Just recently, my brother who lives close said I had to take a $200 per month cut in pay because Mom's money was running out....no one knows but him how much is left either. I flat out told him that was too much of a cut too soon, without warning; he never said I'd be taking a cut someday. We have no written agreement either. Do you think we should still get one drawn up? I'm worried that they'll think I can take care of her for nothing, and I can't. I either need to work more on my part-time job or keep getting the same amount to make ends meet. I get social security, but it's not a lot since I took it early, and a small pension from my x-husband. The thing is too, if she'd been in a nursing home all this time, her money would be long gone by now. I am getting less than half of what the nursing home would charge and I am giving almost 24-7 care and companionship. What to do?
Caregivers can be compensated for services by using a Caregiver Contract or Personal Service Agreement The contract should address:
1) tasks—personal services, personal health services, driving, household services 2) work schedule and hours 3) wages and how to be paid (rates comparable to those of home-health companies) 4) care receiver Social Security payments and caregiver reporting 5) reimbursement of caregiver expenses and car maintenance.
Another important “contract” is a family agreement, generated from a family meeting. I don’t think this is the type of “agreement” you were referring to in your question, but it is important nonetheless. A productive family meeting (which includes your mother) can build a strong foundation for family caregiving. Do you share common values? Talk about what is most important to all of you—autonomy or safety. Establish common goals. Divide responsibility based on the strengths and abilities you bring to the family. It is important to be specific. Develop a contract that delineates the commitments family members have made, and solidify those commitments with signatures that verify that everyone understands and agrees to the plan. Be sure to date the contract in case changes are needed later on.
Either of these types of agreements are more binding if they are at least notarized, if not drawn up with an attorney. If your objective is to be paid, I would definitely work with an attorney to draw up a Personal Service Agreement.
Most state Medicaid departments will insist on a written caregiver agreement in order to treat the payments to you as other than a gift from your mom. The agreement should spell out the amount of payments, frequency, your duties and responsibilities, etc. You should not charge more than the going rate in your area for similar work, otherwise the excess charges will be deemed a gift from your mom. Finally, it's safest to be paid on an ongoing basis (e.g., at the end of each week) vs a lump-sum in advance, because only a few states permit advance lump-sum payments for Medicaid purposes.
Don't forget you have to report the payments as income on your tax return!
Absolutely, "YES". I can only speak from family experience with several different family situations and believe this is the most common and potentially serious mistake families make. Repeatedly I've seen where siblings don't understand their responsibility, don't keep good records, don't report to the other siblings, and end up not talking for the rest of their lives because they didn't communicate AS A FAMILY on this vitally important issue. Contingent with this, are the all -important discussions about the intent of and content of trusts, wills, powers of attorney, death planning. When your mom is no longer capable of speaking for herself, the entire family needs to know IN ADVANCE what she wants so that they can agree on steps that are taken on her behalf after she becomes incapacitated.
In order to put together all of this documentation it is best to use an attorney and ensure that clear conversation has taken place between mom and the rest of the family.
Saug, Yes, absolutely you need a care agreement to protect yourself and your mother! The care must be medically necessary as determined by her doctor. To avoid what all have said so far, one of my concerns is that if you have siblings, they find out about the payments to you, disagree the care is necessary, then accuse you of financial exploitation then call the authorities. And it wouldn't have to be siblings, it could be neighbors, your mother's financial institutions, anybody! There are many stories like this here on AC, mine is one of them.
How long has she been paying you? Is the amount comparable with what care would cost in your area? You may want to consider getting a geriatric care manager to come in to do an assessment of her needs. It would be an excellent back up document for you to have if things start to get strange.
Yes absolutely! Not only for legal reasons to protect your mom but also to protect yourself! Idk if your mom is like mine, very few r as cruel and mean as mine, but if ur moms mind is starting to go, what if she forgets the agreement between you guys and thinks you have been taking her money? My mom always got mad at me and with a clear mind would accuse me of taking her money when I had POA. But she would tell docs or people in a rest home (when she was there) or whoever would listen, only when she was mad at me, that I was taking her money and not paying any bills with it and using it for myself. Later, of course, she would realize it was wrong to do and that she knew entire time what she said was false, but by then damage was done and sometimes I had agencies questioning everything I spent and doing investigations on me. It's not worth the headache and the possible damage it can do to ur relationship with your mom ( like in my case, my mom n I hardly speak now and I never go see her at home cause of the things she did to me and how she treated me). Get an agreement. In that agreement state how long she has been paying you prior to the written agreement and have it notarized!
I agree that while in the past verbal agreements were common, it's wise to have it legalized. The IRS can consider certain amounts as gifts to the caregiver, but Medicaid considers gifts a reason to not cover someone until that is "used up." This, I may add, may vary by state. Just to cover yourself, at least have a notarized agreement but one drawn up by an attorney would likely be worth a one time visit. Good luck, Carol
The IRS may consider that money a gift, but there are taxable limits on gifts. If Mom needs a nursing home, Medicaid will not cover her when there are large gifts within the last five years.
Had Mom passed before her money ran out, the siblings who did nothing, would have gotten their equal share. I dont believe in equal share unless there is equal commitment. good luck
It would be interesting to research non-paid 24/7 family caregivers to find out their situations. How many are married, already have retirement or coming up on it, have decent Social Security income (if there is such a thing) or were able to save substantially for their own retirement. How many are well off and can afford to provide the care without payment?
The contract should address:
1) tasks—personal services, personal health services, driving, household services
2) work schedule and hours
3) wages and how to be paid (rates comparable to those of home-health companies)
4) care receiver Social Security payments and caregiver reporting
5) reimbursement of caregiver expenses and car maintenance.
Another important “contract” is a family agreement, generated from a family meeting. I don’t think this is the type of “agreement” you were referring to in your question, but it is important nonetheless. A productive family meeting (which includes your mother) can build a strong foundation for family caregiving. Do you share common values? Talk about what is most important to all of you—autonomy or safety. Establish common goals. Divide responsibility based on the strengths and abilities you bring to the family. It is important to be specific. Develop a contract that delineates the commitments family members have made, and solidify those commitments with signatures that verify that everyone understands and agrees to the plan. Be sure to date the contract in case changes are needed later on.
Either of these types of agreements are more binding if they are at least notarized, if not drawn up with an attorney. If your objective is to be paid, I would definitely work with an attorney to draw up a Personal Service Agreement.
Barbara M.
Don't forget you have to report the payments as income on your tax return!
In order to put together all of this documentation it is best to use an attorney and ensure that clear conversation has taken place between mom and the rest of the family.
Yes, absolutely you need a care agreement to protect yourself and your mother! The care must be medically necessary as determined by her doctor. To avoid what all have said so far, one of my concerns is that if you have siblings, they find out about the payments to you, disagree the care is necessary, then accuse you of financial exploitation then call the authorities. And it wouldn't have to be siblings, it could be neighbors, your mother's financial institutions, anybody! There are many stories like this here on AC, mine is one of them.
How long has she been paying you? Is the amount comparable with what care would cost in your area? You may want to consider getting a geriatric care manager to come in to do an assessment of her needs. It would be an excellent back up document for you to have if things start to get strange.
Good luck,
Carol
"agreements not reduced to writing, are NOT worth the paper they ain't written on."
Caregivers should/must consult with a elder affairs attorney who is up-to-date on caregiving, estate and family POA documents, medicaid etc.
If Mom needs a nursing home, Medicaid will not cover her when there are large gifts within the last five years.