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My mother now lives with myself and my husband and has since last year after having a bad fall in her bath tub. I am her POA and also her Executor. I retired last November (before I planned) in order to give my Mother 24 hour care. Putting her in an assisted living home that would give her what she receives in my home would cost between $10-12 thousand a month in this area. Can I keep a record of what would be an acceptable monthly charge for her care and housing and charge it to her estate upon her death?

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I'm in Texas. When my mom moved in with us because she could no longer live independently, a social worker came in to talk to me. The social worker instructed me to figure out the expense of my mom living with us including rent, part of the utilities, the food cost and any improvements we had to make to accommodate her handicap. Then she told me to calculate a monthly rent amount based on that information. I did not go through any attorney or lawyer. I have documented all of it, have a spreadsheet and a ledger which I show my mom every month. I also drew up a document detailing how I arrived at the monthly figure. Nothing is signed (however now that I read these comments I think I might just draw out the rental agreement). So every month my mom writes me a check. Some of this money we use to pay the cost to us and some of the money I put in a savings account for her future periodic expenses, but it's in my name. What she pays us does not cover her cost of living here but we just suck up the rest of it and I keep a running total. The thing is my mom has no assets and she will have nothing to repay me when she passes. We're okay with that. But my point is that we are getting money now every month from her and not waiting. In addition, when she moved in she had a charge card that she wanted me to use to buy her things for her. But she uses it too and spends money faster than she gets money in; her charge cards are now close to the Limit so I can no longer use them.

I don't charge for my care or time. My mom would want to compensate me, but she has no money to do so. Otherwise, I may have drawn that up. Her insurance is paying for homehealth to come in though, but at some point this will stop. I have to apply for Medicaid in her name, but I'm still unclear on the ramifications of doing so. Not sure she qualifies anyhow, she's on the cusp of the income level. She has other monthly bills on debt she incurred over the years from unwise and frivolous spending too. Mom was never good with money mgmt.

Also, my POA and her will (I'm executrix) state that i will be compensated, which means nothing to me because her estate has no value. You should look at the language about compensation in your own legal docs.

First step I would take, if not already, is schedule a home visit with your local social services to discuss the situation and what is legal and possible.
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Per my elder attorney...You have 2 choices..
1. Have a caregivers contract drawn up
2. Have a rental agreement drawn up.
He said the rent agreement would be easier.
I had a realtor come in and assess the area she occupies and has access to.
He gave me a letter stating $850 a month would be fair market value.
So every month ghat amount is automatically transferred from her account to a separate account in my name. Only the rental money goes into this account.
She signed the rental agreement.
I called Medicaid to confirm this was acceptable to them.
If ever she needs to be placed on Medicare if she ever has to go into long Term Care, Medicare will not say this was a gift.
My elder attorney told me to cash mom's life insurance policies in.
He said if she ever had to apply for Medicaid they would want ghat money to be spent down before Medicaid kicked in.
My mom doesn't have much money. As of now she has about $25,000. From her life insurance. One was assigned to the funeral home to pay for her burial.
I have already informed my 2 brothers that if I am taking care of her in my home until she dies that They will not be getting any money if there is any left.
They both agreed that was ok. I understand that a lot of siblings would not agree.
She has no assets, no will.
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No. You can make no charges for care rendered now on her estate when she dies. The charges are made now by contract. See an elder law attorney. If you are executor of her estate you can charge to manage the distribution of her estate after her death, and can pay an attorney to distribute the estate, that cost coming from the estate, but you cannot collect for care you are giving now. If you wish to charge your mother for rental, for care, then see an elder law attorney regarding the drawing of a contract to do so. It will NOT be 10, or 12, thousand. Please consider having your mother enter care and paying if she can afford it, for that care. Then go back to your job and support her lovingly while she receives care and pays for it.
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I would consult with EC atty ASAP.

Your profile indicates dementia, however if she is only in the early stages, she *might* be able to sign a caregiver agreement. We were able to have mom sign documents despite being in the early stages, in order to revise/add some things to the documents we had done before dad passed. The atty would interview her to make that determination. If yes, get a good legal caregiver agreement in place through this atty. DO also ask if there are tax implications with getting paid for her care (not recompense for living expenses, but providing care.)

IF she is determined to be incapable of signing, about the only options left are guardianship (this will take a big chunk of mom's assets!) and/or becoming SS rep payee.

Legit handling of SS funds really should be done via the rep payee. Initially when I took over mom's finances (she was still living in her condo) I just used my POA to manage her accounts. It would become an issue after we moved her to MC and planned to sell the condo. I needed to change the address to my PO Box as federal mail cannot be forwarded. The SS documentation specifically states that NO ONE should be using anyone else's SS funds unless they are rep payee. They do NOT honor any POAs (no federal entity does.) Others will say they just use mom or dad's account and all is fine, but by SS rules this is not legit. They *could* cause problems if they check.

SS requires an accounting at year end, but it is not difficult and mainly has to show that her funds were used for housing, food, medical care and any other necessities. Therefore you *could* come up with reasonable charges for her housing and food to cover the increases in your own costs. It would be best to keep detailed records, even if you have to buy her items separately and compare current house costs with what it was before she moved in (adjust some for regular increases.) NOTE: You are NOT allowed to use her SS funds to pay yourself! In order to sign up for this, call the local office, not the main #.

Primary reasons for doing this now is to have good legal standing AND ensure you get some recompense now. Waiting until she passes might result in you getting nothing for your time and efforts. The will is the will, and as executor you honor what the will says, not what you want. IF she has left everything to you, it might resolve some of your problem, BUT if she ever needs to go to a facility, despite your best intentions, her funds will be quickly used up, and you will get little or nothing. IF she ever needs Medicaid, anything you take without an agreement in place will be held against her and will delay approval.

Consult EC atty ASAP!!! (naela.org)
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Personal services agreement. I used an elder law attorney but ended up not needing that, I'm not needing anything and I would make sure if you do get one, they don't take taxes out and consider income. Probably depending on your state.
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Imho, that would depend on a number of factors:
#1 How old is mom?
#2 What do you expect to charge her per month?
#3 Her life expectancy is an unknown.
#4 Will she run out of funds?
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Not without some legal legwork. You need to talk to and elder attorney to find out how to handle what you think she owes you per month.
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get an amendment to her will and of course notorised. You of course have a estate plan in place. That avoids probate. If any part of her desires are contested then you can explain to her that attorne and court costs will eat up what should go to you. Get out of the legal mode and get into a mother daughter look at how her money could be lost and you would not receive what she wants to pass on to you for your care. Old poeple awareness level sometimes is not focused on details regarding money. Sounds like she has a good "family thing" going on. She has lifetime values on money. That is where you approach her.
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Her mother has dementia and likely cannot amend the will. The OP can not amend the will either. And she needs to be compensated now. There’s no guarantee there will be money left when mother dies, you never know what will happen.
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Cconsult an elder law attorney to evaluate how to do it relative to amount of her assets. This should not be done without professional advise. If she needs medicaid, the rules need to be followed carefully. So she will qualify. Worst of all is transferring assets improperly and the result can be lack of medicaid coverage or delay in coverage.
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Agree with other commenters - make it a pay as you go plan. Wether her money gets exhausted before her time or if she requires a higher level of 24/7 care than you can give (and no one can do 24/7 care. ) then her money would go for that. Draw up a contract with all spelled out (preferably with an attorney). Each month transfer a lump sum from her bank account into a personal care/expense account and use that for her care. While you may want to keep some of her assets in reserve in case she has to go to NH - if she has no assets Medicaid will pay for NH. But as long as she has any kind of assets they will take them and you will get nothing. Because of the 5 year look back you want to document everything carefully and personal care/expense account credit/debit card should help.
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Where have we gone so wrong not willing to take care of our parents WITHOUT being paid. Your mom should already have signed her funds over to you anyway. Are our parents so stingy and resentful that they are taking their money to the grave before giving it to their own kids!?! With that off my chest I will tell you this.... Take her cash card and get what you need, within reason. Contact a lawyer about redistributing her funds so she can qualify for paid home care a d you can be the paid caregiver. Do NOT become her poa...that will disqualify you from getting paid. There came a time when I just took control
I didnt ask a demented old man (dad), I just did it. He KNOWS I did and he is ok with it. I also get aid to be his caregiver because Medicare pays for it. There are medicare programs that pay 1200 or more per month. I got hired on as a home health aid by some company and he is their client and I am the employee but they dont pay for beans. Call your local chapter of Care Source or Elder Care or which ever company is the liaison for Medicare in your community. Whew..I'm out of breath.....
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Dollie1974 Jun 2020
I am my mother’s DPOA as well as her Healthcare Proxy.
I found out from a Medicaid representative that I am not eligible to be my mother’s paid caregiver because I am her Healthcare Proxy (unless I decline to further be her Proxy).

What I can do for her (bc she has Vascular Dementia) is interview and hire a caregiver and get it paid through the State (if and when my mom is eligible for Medicaid). This is heartbreaking for me bc I left my job last year to take care of her myself only to find out now that once my savings runs out I need to go back to work, apply her for Medicaid and “learn” to comfortable with a stranger taking care of my most precious person.
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Discuss with an elder care lawyer where you can come up with a contract. Most would say bill monthly and do not wait until death.
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I would only take the advice of an Elder Law Attorney and have it all drawn up. The only way for you and anyone else to know it is all done correctly. Was so glad I did that as Mom's caregiver. Nothing to come back and hit you later.
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Have you discussed this with your mother? What is being done with her home?

Your mother has now been living with you for upwards of six months. Unless she is very impaired mentally, she must be aware that there are bills to pay and finances to manage. I should begin the conversation with her, first of all, and see how far you get.

How do you plan to arrive at a figure for that "acceptable monthly charge," by the way? Not challenging you, just asking.
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I believe it would be the same rate that would be charged either by IHSS services or by a private care taker service - No?
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Have her use one charge card for all her expenses. It shows what her money is used for. I used this for home health care , food, medical needs, clothes, and what ever she wanted. I had to keep my home very warm and she paid the oil bill and electric bill because she had lights on 24/7 plus tv and phone. She also paid for a house cleaner every three weeks.
It worked out that she spent her pension and SS monthly for her expenses.
In other words, she was able to pay her way and I took care of her. It worked out.
It cost $120,000 over five years which was money well spent on her. The level of care was better than what she would have gotten from AL at $10,000 per month.
The problem is that if her health needs changed I would not have been able to provide the right level of care at home and she would have been out of money.
I worried about that.
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Have mom pay her expenses now. The estate is subject to her will and you most likely will not be allowed a bigger portion to cover her expenses after her death.
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I believe you will get everything anyways if you are all of this, dear. No worries....
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Grandma1954 Jun 2020
not necessarily mom can leave any part of her "estate" to anyone she wants. If mom likes the local animal shelter she can leave her estate to them. Just because you are a son, daughter, grandchild or any other relative does not mean you get anything. And in some states if you contest a will you might also end up with nothing and have to pay the cost of the lawyer and court costs.
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You probably need to do some sort of contract; POA does not allow you to just do whatever you want and may only come in force once she is declared incompetent. Even if she allows you to handle her finances without question, a contract will spell out what was provided, cost etc. And then you need to collect the money as you go. In the event that caring for her at home becomes too difficult as she declines, this contract and financial accounting will aid you in documenting how her money was spent in the event that Medicaid needs to be put in place. You cannot perhaps see it now, but if she requires constant 24/7 care, not just supervision, it may become too difficult. Once her assets are spent, you could need to account to Medicaid what happened to her money during the 5 year look back.
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Apply now for Medicaid....they will pay for nursing home ...there has to be a contract now to get paid otherwise they will say it's a gift. Go to an elder lawyer, he'll explain everything you need to know.
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yes and no. You won't be able to charge $100 - $12,000 a month.

You can hire In Home 24 7 Caregivers for $12 an hr.

My 96 yr old Dad wanted to stay in his own home do I looked around for over a month and found a Caregiver eilling to accept $9 hr which is $512 a week.

So, as long as you're not charging more than $15 an hr, you probably will be OK.

If you need to make changes in your home like walk in bath tub, ect to accommodate her or adding a room, ect, food, personal items can all be charged to your mom before her assets divided up between siblings.
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gladimhere Jun 2020
No. Any upgrades to your home benefit you, your equity.
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You can't charge expenses to something that's currently nonexistent.
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Worried in Cali and Is This realy real have hit the nail on the head. This is something you do NOW; it will be utterly impossible to collect this after death.
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You need to get it in writing and get paid now.

If mom doesn't agree you will have a difficult time getting any money after her death.

Contracts can not be retroactive so get this done now.
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Why would you do that when you should be compensated NOW? She should be contributing to the household bills, paying rent and compensating you for her care.
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