Can APS just walk in?

Revzron, has anything happened in the case?

Yes, APS can enter any dwelling that has been reported as the location of someone needing APS assistance. As soon as you responded, and you gave them permission to enter into that dwelling. Technically they were going to worry about repercussions later. Laws are usually only good for deterrence and convictions. They don't always prevent violations of privacy rights

You were in a residence of a friend/client,
you aren't legally a resident of that dwelling,
yet you were acting as a gatekeeper, describing her sedated condition,
if they were truly APS, they would have presented IDs.

APS stated their purpose, needing to to see your friend/client, your response both gave them permission and, kinda blocked them from viewing her, without your intervention. Maybe APS thought you were exploiting her?

If you are being contracted to renovate or repair her home, that normally wouldn't include you acting in a caregiver or gate-keeping capacity.

Contractors in my area, display their project permit on a highly visible window sometimes with a copy of the renovation notice provided to neighbors.

Since, anyone can claim anything.
APS acted in the best interests of the client/friend

You have the right to be secured in your own home. No one has the right to just walk in. No one. You are considered "innocent" until proven guilty. You can't go on suspecting.

Just say someone made a false claim on me and the police came to my house and walked into my home. My rights and privacy was just invaded.

My dad has a house he rents out. The tenants were literally destroying it and behind on rent. You would think my dad had a right to do something to protect his property … in a nice way.

However, he was told by the police, he could not go but so many feet within the property. That it was considered the tenants home. Their privacy. You do have rights in your own home.

Good answers and they lie...believe me; I know. Ask them for ID when cleared to come in according to your friend's contract and p/p of state agencies.

Imho, this sounds suspect to me. Did they show ID, e,g, what if they were imposters?

They are not suppose to handle anything out side of a facility. I tried to talk to them & they said (After Romey @ Home Care Service Bureau told me I needed to contact A.P.S. as the Bureau couldn't do anything).A.P. S. said I need to talk to Romey At the Bureau as they do the licensing. As usual one gov. agency points to another, No one takes responsibility. (TYPICAL) Until you get a manager, Then it is a diff. story. Romey should be fired or removed for giving the wrong info just to get rid of me. When I talked to A.P.S. they told me they can only handle a complaint when the person is in a FACILITY. That is what I was told. ( True or not, I can't say except what she told me) . Yor house is not a facility so I would say to tell them to go get the out of here & do your job at a facility.

Yes, but licensed, ID'd APS must be accompanied by the ID'd Local Police. Police must also show their Search Warrants.

Based on years of experience taking care of someone, yes, they seem to think they do have the right to do whatever. Did someone file an anonymous complaint? Something triggered this off. I would contact the authorities as how to handle this should this happen in the future - and don't unlock the door to let them in. Good luck.

Sounds like a state like California where rights are for some. Next time call the cops... and don't take "authority" as the be all end all. AND YOU have the authority to ask them to leave if you had the authority to answer the door, badge or no badge. Next time call the police on them-- and report an aggressive violent trespass. Remember the only thing to survive WW2's Nazis are the all important administrators. Plus you are also able to institute a citizen's arrest. I would get something to protect myself with preferably loaded, double O buckshot. Trespass is trespass.

As a former state elder care manager, I assure you APS is not your enemy. My agency provided these services when there was a question of elder abuse or unsafe living conditions. However, any concerned person(neighbor , case worker, professional care giver etc ,or relative) may make a report to APS. Not all reports are valid , but APS workers have to investigate circumstances. Also we used to have the police do "well being" checks on elders living alone. We did this when the elder didn't answer phone or a knock on door. BTW, as a care manager, I had to call clients in advance of visit. APS has somewhat more leeway, but should always show ID and be respectful.

No. APS must wait to be invited in.

The police are not even suppose to enter your home uninvited unless they have a search warrant.

If APS was there, someone reported an issue at the home. They are bound by law to investigate. They should have had badges or state ID to show you and you could call their office (you look up the phone number, don't take a number that a visitor gives you) if you were still in doubt.

Perhaps the repairs that you mention (to the home) indicate the home may not have been in good enough condition in the reporter's opinion. I'm sure if you explained what you were preparing to do they would evaluate that info as well as current living conditions. Be prepared for a follow up visit to ensure any recommendation are corrected. They can also assist you with equipment you may need.

Doesn’t seem right

RevRon, have you filed a complaint?

That you told them to wait and closed the door, tells me that boundaries were crossed. This type of behavior is unacceptable and should be reported.

I can imagine that they have a difficult job. Obviously a large number of complaints are not legitimate, however, the legitimate ones can be pretty ugly.

Striking a balance until you know what you are dealing with takes a mature, balanced individual and quite frankly, I don't see that in my area with government employees. They tend to believe that they can do whatever they want as they are some how above the law. It is kinda like a cop stealing supplies from the station house for their household and arresting someone else that stole Kleenex from the convenience store, basic rules don't apply to them in their unbalanced heads.

People need to file written reports every time lines are crossed and that will help create very clear guidelines.

RevRon my question is what questions did the APS worker have for you and your friend? Those questions will tell a lot and the answers would be in a report. Regardless of the reason and outcome, there will be a report if this was an actual APS worker. Also, I have been working with vulnerable adults for 20+ years and never once have I encountered an APS worker with a body cam. If an APS worker feels they are walking into a bad situation, they would bring back up like the police for protection. APS workers much like cops or CPS workers cannot enter a home without permission or a warrant. Many APS workers show up at homes and are refused entry. From there it depends on the type of call it was and the State or County laws as to the next step. Many calls do not fall within the need to make a home visit. So my next question is why the APS worker was there in the first place. Then what were the questions asked an finally what was the outcome? Finally, to answer your question, no the APS worker does not have the right to enter the home without permission and perhaps in this case the APS worker assumed she could enter or did so illegally. The fact she was looking around while waiting is odd, generally they have to ask permission to do that as well once in the home. They even have to ask permission to ask questions, get consent. Again, what was the reason there, what were the questions, what was the outcome?

Here is an in-depth article on guardianship abuse, from a highly reputable source: The New Yorker magazine. The abuse was perpetrated intentionally by networks of professionals at every level: nurses, social workers, judges, city and county authorities, police and sheriffs, and of course paid professional guardians. Paid professional guardians walked into elderly people's homes with no notice to family, took them away, had them committed to nursing homes, sold their possessions and their houses, pocketed their benefits and savings, and would not allow family and friends to visit them. Not just one bad apple--not just one small town. This happened, and is still happening, in cities and towns across the country, especially the sun belt states with large populations of seniors. So be very very careful about any authority getting involved in your loved one's affairs.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights

Seems to me that this approach is a recipe for disaster. Why in the world would you want an elderly frail person to just allow a person claiming to be APS into the home? I haven't dealt with APS but with senior services who would come to evaluate mom and the workers who assisted her. We always received a call in advance to know that they were coming. If they hadn't, I would hope that mom wouldn't let just anyone in. So unsafe. Calling ahead isn't perfect, since someone may not have another more capable individual in their life to reach out to for confirming the visit, but interfacing with the police so that a person can confirm said visit is legit is necessary these days. And displaying a level of respect while waiting is a must. I would report them.

Wow. After reading some of these comments, I will know to always lock the door if I step away from it for a moment. I can’t imagine someone just *walking in* and poking around the house without getting permission first.

What would this this person done if the door was locked? Banged on it and demanded to be let in? I’m fine with them getting the police or at the very least explaining that they need to see inside (and then show proper ID, paperwork) but to just saunter in while you are busy in another part of the house and unaware that they’re even inside just seems amazingly audacious of them. It can’t be right.

Only if they have good reason to believe that someone is in danger. Same as with a police officer. My wife is her mother's legal guardian and formerly her conservator as well, and her live-in caregiver. My mother-in-law has dementia, and the paranoia that often goes along with it. When my wife was her mother's conservator, my mother-in-law was constantly calling a friend of hers down-state and fussing about things she was unhappy about, both real (though often heavily exaggerated) and imaginary, including accusations that my wife was stealing from her. The friend contacted APS in our area, and they sent an agent who we later found out had a rather bad reputation for overstepping her authority. The agent started telling my wife that she ought to put her mother into a home, and was very pushy about it. Investigations into the alleged financial wrongdoing showed that my wife kept meticulous records and that nothing untowards was going on (the probate judge eventually turned the conservatorship to a public conservator in the mistaken idea that it would make my mother-in-law complain less. She just found OTHER things to complain about, and the public conservator even said it was a rather rash move on the judge's behalf). One day the APS agent just showed up and walked in, and we decided we had had enough of her crap, contacted her manager, and told the manager that that agent was not welcome at our home and to send someone else. We also sent a formal letter of complaint. The next time an agent was sent, it was a young man who was far more professional and actually LISTENED to what my wife had to say. He informed us that no fewer than NINE complaints had been filed on my mother-in-law's behalf due to her fussing, but six were dismissed outright and the other three, once investigated (one was an accusation that my wife wasn't taking her mother to the doctor, which was disproved by all the paperwork my wife saved as well as letters from the doctor himself) proved to have been a waste of their time. So now they know my mother-in-law is a chronic fusser as well as a dementia patient and we haven't heard from them for over a year now. But we were told that they did NOT have a right to come into the house on their own unless they had good reason to believe someone was in danger.

Short answer, Yes. They are there to investigate a concern that an adult is not being well-cared for. Their job is to make sure the client is OK. They don't know who you are and your role. Being polite all around is the most helpful.

Shurt andwer No. They should not have come in unless they were invited.

I would have let the person know that next time you would appreciate a call first and to wait outside until they were invited in.

It may have been a misunderstanding that they thought you meant for them to wsit inside while you went to get her..

If you plainly told them to wait outsude until you went to get your friend, then you should call and report the person.

APS role is to make sure older adults are safe and well cared for in their current living situation. Frail, ill and confused seniors are as vulnerable as children. APS will only come to investigate if someone has called them with a concern. They are supposed to arrive unannounced so guilty caregivers don't have time to make the situation right. The APS workers role is to make sure the older adult is not in danger, has food, and is being well cared for with no signs of neglect. If you are not hiding anything, why would you not let them in? If you refuse to allow them to enter, they will return with a police escort and things may get ugly from there. Like in previous answers, you must do your due diligence by checking their ID to verify who they are and contact the office to make sure they are who they say they are- too many scams going on these days. If the senior is found to be in a not-ideal-but-safe situation, APS can assist in helping to rectify the situation to make it safe. They can make referrals to get help for the senior and their caregivers. One such referral may be to a geriatric care manager. But if the home is found to be profoundly unsafe, or it is an abusive/neglectful environment then they will, and should, remove the older adult from the home and get them to the hospital. From there, discharge planners will professionally determine if going home is a safe discharge plan, or if putting services and equipment in the home can make home be a safe discharge plan. If returning home is out of the question then they will find appropriate placement for the senior. The bottom line: if the home is safe and the older adult is well cared for, there should be no reason not to let APS into the home (after they have been verified). Not letting them enter the home sends up many red flags and speaks volumes. What are you hiding? There is nothing to worry about if everything is safe and as it should be but if not, the caregiver or family member deserves to be "caught with their pants down", arrested and brought up on abuse/neglect charges. How can any upstanding person not cooperate in the process of making sure a vulnerable senior is safe?

My aunt and her caregiver were investigated by APS. The first time person came to door, she wasn't let in. But left an official business card. The second time she was let in because they knew who she was. But my aunt and caregiver had to work hard to get the APS person's trust. But eventually prevailed. Fortunately my aunt at 90 was well spoken and of sound mind. And everything was in order.
Llike the police, APS do wellness checks. As such, they can come in without a warrant or police. If I were in the situation, I'd videotape it on my phone.

If they threaten to call the sheriff tell them you welcome it. That may call their bluff and have them back off. But generally I would get as much info as possible, ID and business card.

If in doubt I would not let them in period. I would call 911, let the police come and adjudicate. The police should know if they are allowed in or need a court order or whatever. That is the police's job.

Did you leave door open like you were inviting them in? They are checking on the welfare of your friend and are mandated to look [look only] if you let them in.
Unless they are accompanied by a police officer they will not enter a residence without invite.
If you do not wish them to enter you must close door.
Do not attempt to stop a police officer with authority to check on a welfare complaint.
They do have the right to enter...

Check with the state attorney's office. However, the 4th amendment to the US Constitution says that:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Sorry to give you this answer,but they can. Someone must have called them. They have good intentions. And usually they will work with you to help clear up anything wrong. Do not fight against them for it will not help. Stay blessed and continue to do the right thing.

How do you actually get help from APS ?
I am sick and get tested monday.
I can barely care for myself, much less my brother.
My home is no longer a safe environment due to my own illness.

Just my opinion, but this is still the United States of America, with freedoms granted that no one can enter your home without permission. Without a warrant. Or exigent circumstances?

A part of what this country is founded on. Freedom.

We should continue to exercise that right well into our elder years.
The authority can make an appointment, come back later, or call for back-up in most cases. Has anyone ever experienced a swat team entering one's home just because a prankster called swat?

Authorities attempting to gain access should be stopped at the door until an elder has a witness present, identity is confirmed, and the elder says yes or no. One can always pick up the phone and call 911 themselves.

APS, CPS have been over-stepping their authority for too long. imo.