I do not believe our DPOA has any comments about payments. I also do not think anyone other than a family member is going to question how any existing funds are used - HOWEVER, depending on where any income is from, there could be issues.
Before we moved our mother to memory care, she lived alone. All her mail went to that address. Working first with the credit union several years before the move, I used the DPOA to change the address of her account, then changed all her billing addresses to my address so that I could pay her bills (she had all three of us already on her account, which made the CU changes a little easier.) She was not capable of handling her financials anymore at that time. Her pension (from dad) and SS were direct deposit, however in order to rent the condo we needed to change the address so that changes and tax documents would come to me. These will NOT forward (pension and SS are both federal and NO federal documents can be forwarded) and they both have special rules about taking over. Regular pensions may as well - I have not experienced that.
Skipping over the hassle it was to get these taken care of, what I know about them is that THEY require at least yearly accounting as to how the funds are spent. The SS booklet they sent to me is VERY specific about how those funds can be spent. It also clearly states that ONLY SS approved payments such as for handling the account are allowed. In that case, unless the DPOA states clearly what payments can be made AND the SS approve it, no payments for services rendered are allowed from those funds. I'm not overly worried about those reports, because combined they only cover about 1/2 of the MC cost, so that will be the yearly report to both of them: all is spent on her residence. Period.
That said, currently the trust fund distributes monthly to her main account (I had to open a special account for SS, oh boy, more paperwork.) This is used to cover the remainder of her "rent" and some condo expenses. We had to open a bill payer along with the trust (and MORE paperwork!) to cover taxes and fees associated with the condo (also held in trust.) My older brother, several times, told me to take money for what I do (and as moecam says, it does take a LOT of time to handle all these things - after doing all that VA paperwork, I have to do it again :-( as they changed forms.) But so far I only take reimbursement for things I had to get or take care of for her or the condo using my own credit cards. I do not and will not take any money for handling the paperwork, phone calls etc. I just wish it was all settled, so that I could try to set a routine!!! Every week it seems some new issue comes along and I cannot get things done I need to do!
Anyway, start with the document itself. It may or may not specifically address whether payment for services are allowed. If it is not clear, call the office of the attorney who set this up. They should be able to advise you. Beware of the pension/SS income - you did not specify who this is for or if the person lived with you/you lived with them, so no address change was needed. Direct deposit is great, but you will need tax documents and other updates mailed to you (several have arrived for the pension, first for increase in payment, then increase for medical, and lastly increase for the tax changes made, and similar came for SS.) They may not approve of any payments for services you render, whether it is specified in the DPOA or not. There are rules that can override what the document says or what you'd like to do...
Mom's lawyer said to keep a log for several months, average them & use minimum wage rate which gave a figure - then take 0.001% [that's $100 for every $100,000] of her net worth which gives another figure - mine were within a few dollars of each other,so I rounded down for easier bookkeeping - the back-up P.O.A. for financial was the bank so the lawyer said that I should get paid something just like the bank would [but bank would charge much more] - this is for the financial only not medical - when I gave the figure to mom's lawyer she was quite comfortable with my final amount
Yes I take the fee, as I spend so much time doing this work that my mom's net worth is going up not down after 5 years in a nursing home & most of the money will go to her grandchildren not to me - in order to have the time free for this I get a cleaning lady 2 times a month, now have a basic cell phone & other expenses that I didn't have before I took on these duties & these costs equal nearly 1/2 of the P.O.A. fees so in the end that means I get a bit of money for myself but I am not accumulating debt so that I can work for her unimpeded
If the money is tight for their care then that is one factor but if there is enough then a small fee is justified for the amount of work needed to be done - I average about 12 to 15 hours a week what with going to meetings at various institutions, staying on top the mound of paperwork etc - that's 50 to 60 hours a month! - when I spend hours at a time, I do not feel resentful of time taken away from my own life rather I consider this is my 'job' now & I should darn well do it really well
Agree with the previous answers. I am not aware of any law that prohibits payment for acting as the financial attorney-in-fact or the health care proxy. However, we say to look "within the four corners of the document" for the answer--any powers and limitations are there. But, to be clear, being a financial attorney-in-fact gives you the authority to use the principal's assets for purposes as specified in the document, which may or not include compensation for services. There are also professional guardians and conservators who definitely get paid for those services. It's time to call in a competent elder law or family law attorney to get this right or interpret documents already in existence. Jo
My parents had POA/MPOA and a Will. In the POA document itself, it had a box checked for payment... However, we were not protected against Probate from the state, so I hired an elder attorney and I obtained a Trust (they had a lil dementia by this time and couldn't do it themselves...to avoid Probate and start sorting and selling/recycling/donating the 40 years of stuff accumulated). She also suggested we obtain court approval to be paid because there were no details were listed in the POA. It was so worth it! I did the first 2 years for free...decided not to charge back-pay as a service to my parents. I wanted them to know it was not about the money for me. They "got" it, and they were so grateful and appreciative of me being there for them. It changed and strengthened our relationship. I receive $15/hr for things related to Trust, POA, and caregiving. For us, it was full-time + overtime sometimes. First, having to literally to go through every single piece of paper to figure things out (it required 3 months..ugh). Overseeing every detail was rough at first, yet now everything is simple and streamlined. It's down to part-time now and I'm grateful the hard part is over. Now I can enjoy my parent! My siblings trust me, and they should (unfortunately no help there). I keep clear records of what I'm doing, and all is well.
It would be contained in your POA, as cwillie mentioned. If it's silent, many states interpret that as "no payment".
I'm the active POA for two family members. We do have that provision in the POAs. I don't take a payment, though. It's very specific, however. I am not allowed to just help myself to money. I don't take anything so that I don't have to explain anything or try to figure out what my time is worth, even though hours are spent every month handling simple to complex matters.
Before we moved our mother to memory care, she lived alone. All her mail went to that address. Working first with the credit union several years before the move, I used the DPOA to change the address of her account, then changed all her billing addresses to my address so that I could pay her bills (she had all three of us already on her account, which made the CU changes a little easier.) She was not capable of handling her financials anymore at that time. Her pension (from dad) and SS were direct deposit, however in order to rent the condo we needed to change the address so that changes and tax documents would come to me. These will NOT forward (pension and SS are both federal and NO federal documents can be forwarded) and they both have special rules about taking over. Regular pensions may as well - I have not experienced that.
Skipping over the hassle it was to get these taken care of, what I know about them is that THEY require at least yearly accounting as to how the funds are spent. The SS booklet they sent to me is VERY specific about how those funds can be spent. It also clearly states that ONLY SS approved payments such as for handling the account are allowed. In that case, unless the DPOA states clearly what payments can be made AND the SS approve it, no payments for services rendered are allowed from those funds. I'm not overly worried about those reports, because combined they only cover about 1/2 of the MC cost, so that will be the yearly report to both of them: all is spent on her residence. Period.
That said, currently the trust fund distributes monthly to her main account (I had to open a special account for SS, oh boy, more paperwork.) This is used to cover the remainder of her "rent" and some condo expenses. We had to open a bill payer along with the trust (and MORE paperwork!) to cover taxes and fees associated with the condo (also held in trust.) My older brother, several times, told me to take money for what I do (and as moecam says, it does take a LOT of time to handle all these things - after doing all that VA paperwork, I have to do it again :-( as they changed forms.) But so far I only take reimbursement for things I had to get or take care of for her or the condo using my own credit cards. I do not and will not take any money for handling the paperwork, phone calls etc. I just wish it was all settled, so that I could try to set a routine!!! Every week it seems some new issue comes along and I cannot get things done I need to do!
Anyway, start with the document itself. It may or may not specifically address whether payment for services are allowed. If it is not clear, call the office of the attorney who set this up. They should be able to advise you. Beware of the pension/SS income - you did not specify who this is for or if the person lived with you/you lived with them, so no address change was needed. Direct deposit is great, but you will need tax documents and other updates mailed to you (several have arrived for the pension, first for increase in payment, then increase for medical, and lastly increase for the tax changes made, and similar came for SS.) They may not approve of any payments for services you render, whether it is specified in the DPOA or not. There are rules that can override what the document says or what you'd like to do...
Yes I take the fee, as I spend so much time doing this work that my mom's net worth is going up not down after 5 years in a nursing home & most of the money will go to her grandchildren not to me - in order to have the time free for this I get a cleaning lady 2 times a month, now have a basic cell phone & other expenses that I didn't have before I took on these duties & these costs equal nearly 1/2 of the P.O.A. fees so in the end that means I get a bit of money for myself but I am not accumulating debt so that I can work for her unimpeded
If the money is tight for their care then that is one factor but if there is enough then a small fee is justified for the amount of work needed to be done - I average about 12 to 15 hours a week what with going to meetings at various institutions, staying on top the mound of paperwork etc - that's 50 to 60 hours a month! - when I spend hours at a time, I do not feel resentful of time taken away from my own life rather I consider this is my 'job' now & I should darn well do it really well
There are also professional guardians and conservators who definitely get paid for those services.
It's time to call in a competent elder law or family law attorney to get this right or interpret documents already in existence.
Jo
In the POA document itself, it had a box checked for payment...
However, we were not protected against Probate from the state, so I hired an elder attorney and I obtained a Trust (they had a lil dementia by this time and couldn't do it themselves...to avoid Probate and start sorting and selling/recycling/donating the 40 years of stuff accumulated).
She also suggested we obtain court approval to be paid because there were no details were listed in the POA. It was so worth it!
I did the first 2 years for free...decided not to charge back-pay as a service to my parents. I wanted them to know it was not about the money for me. They "got" it, and they were so grateful and appreciative of me being there for them. It changed and strengthened our relationship.
I receive $15/hr for things related to Trust, POA, and caregiving. For us, it was full-time + overtime sometimes.
First, having to literally to go through every single piece of paper to figure things out (it required 3 months..ugh). Overseeing every detail was rough at first, yet now everything is simple and streamlined. It's down to part-time now and I'm grateful the hard part is over. Now I can enjoy my parent!
My siblings trust me, and they should (unfortunately no help there). I keep clear records of what I'm doing, and all is well.
I'm the active POA for two family members. We do have that provision in the POAs. I don't take a payment, though. It's very specific, however. I am not allowed to just help myself to money. I don't take anything so that I don't have to explain anything or try to figure out what my time is worth, even though hours are spent every month handling simple to complex matters.