All comments are personal experiences based on a persons perspective related to the intensity of the problem. Seniors and caregivers living and fighting to beat the plague of AD should be offered every legal right for services to include legal, caregiver services, medical services and if homebound hospice care. It can be based on a means test in a democratic society people must be served to fight the elements that they cannot afford on their own. Medicare has to be progressive with changes to fit the plague.
The original poster did not give enough details for anyone here to be able to give an accurate response. This forum (Aging Care) is really not the answer---the original poster needs to seek personalized help specific to their family's case, from an elder lawyer.
someone wrote "Medicare should pay the fees for an elder attorney as part of the medical procedure" .... I don't think Medicare has any business paying LEGAL bills. Medicare doesn't even pay a lot of MEDICAL bills so why would the taxpayers want to pay non-medical bills? maybe Obama should require everyone to have Legal Insurance instead, that would be more in line.
I saw that I could actually believe how much that type of care cost. There are assisted living places in Missouri and Illinois that charge in the thousands for that type of care. Even at a low level facility it could cost in the several hundreds of dollars on both sides of the Mississippi. I think with the medicare cost and the hospital cost at St. Elizabeth and Memorial here in town people with memory loss are more susceptible to taking the advise of a military doctor at St. Elizabeth hospital because if they are seen in a clinic by a civilian doctor at Southern Illinois Healthcare foundation and then they are seen by a stranger in the hospital they are more likely to sign forms enabling the stranger to put them in a low level facility so medicare can pay less for sub par care. In other words if they are afraid of this strange doctor the doctor can have the pull to keep medicare cost down for the government they work for. Doctors like this that don't see the patients outside of the hospital have a way of not wanting relatives around when papers are signed for transfer nor do they want the POA around so they can push through the paper work and claim they have prior consent of someone who has memory problems and they even do this to heart attack and stroke victims as well. If you go to any hospital and see a social worker come to a patients room with papers to sign instead of a nurse that should be a red flag that your loved one does not belong there at that facility. It is all about money even the visiting nurses and home health know it is all about cash money. The department of aging and some people not all people but some in estate planning can get a chunk of that estate if they tend to and often times do play their cards right. There are some Adult protective Services workers that will often become guardians of wards to get a big pay day. They want their share also.
Just as a thought a civilized idea on my part, Medicare should pay the fees for an elder attorney as part of the medical procedure and called in prior to the patient arriving at the loss of cognizance as a service like PT,OR, MT. Do away with notary just two non family witnesses. Remind Congress this is our Black Plague now known as Alzheimer's Dementia.
I tried to call my uncle in PA. at the veterans home. Seems my step aunt before she passed in 2008 she left my step cousins strict orders to make sure my uncle was not disturbed from family in the mid west meaning Illinois and Missouri. My evil step cousins have POA and they decided that instead of the nice apartment he was living in on reduced rent they would put him in a facility where the nurses are like hard hearted Hanna's. I would call up to my uncle's room and his cell phone would go straight through to his voice mail and my step aunts voice from the great beyond was on the voice recording like she had not left. That is the spooky part. Not only did I have to call the charge nurse to tell her I am not mad but a little disappointed in the facilities behavior in turning my uncles phone off and I did not demand but I asked her to have my uncle call. Guess what he did call back but I felt like we could not have a private conversation because the nurses put him on one of their cell phones and taped the whole conversation. That is the government for you! His own step daughters sent a message loud and clear when they came to St. Louis Missouri in 2005 and picked up my uncle and step aunt and took them to PA. That was it they were going to dictate every move he made every doctor he went to they had to okay who or what type of family he saw or spoke to. They even got rid of a lot of his belongings that belonged to him even the nice clock I got him for his birthday they owe me for because they sold it. Those belongings of his were not for them to sell those were his keepsakes. Yet those retched daughters of his wife decided to sell his keepsakes and give him no alternative but to go to PA. The only two times he came back here was in 2009 to see family in collinsville Illinois and shortly before my eldest uncle who lived in Cahokia died in 2008. I feel that I am also walked on emotionally by my step cousins every time I hear the voice of their mothers on that voice mail and wish they would take the voice off there and stop dictating every move my uncle makes and let him have his nice apartment again in a Christian facility with a private nurse that is not a fiduciary like themselves. It hurts when I can't talk to him the way I used to because of my step cousins and their ruthless behavior and the government red tape that allows this.
I am not sure about Texas law but, if she is still of sound mind, she should be able to revoke that POA and have another one written which would put you back on the list. Then you should be able to approach the bank and have things put back as they were. That may be the simplest and least expensive way to deal with it if Texas law permits it.
rkokish, that's why I asked texastiedup about involvement in Mom's daily life, and what the interaction was with the lawyer. These accusations are serious and devastating, and I don't believe anyone wants to inflame an already bad situation. However, if texastiedup has been removed from POD designations, and bequests have changed, there is obvious reason for concern.
Sister in law, attorney, was in debt and used POA to direct hospital to end my Daddy's life, including consulting with employees of State Health Dept, 4 attempts at colonospy, he lost 40 pounds, also while this sister in law was removing several electronic withdrawals from Dad's bank. He checked himself out of hospital and redid trust/will because of the withdrawals but then because of the weight loss, swallowed soup and went into lungs which killed him. Sister in law removed all of my Mother's medicines the day my Dad was buried, and sister in law went to Mother's doctor using my sister and I's ID to authorize the removal of all med. Doctor told her "We don't worry about removing medicines from women her age. Since Mother on Statin, Mother had stroke two months later. This doesn't tell you the cruel things this sister in law attorney did to my Mother, and the lies she told my Daddy. The attorneys we hired were just as crooked.
These stories are all devastating. Our family story is a combination of all the above. All have a common denominator, trust. I hope everyone puts the message out to as many people as possible. Get educated in all aspects re POA's, EPOA's, Wills etc. Acquire legal advice as well to ensure all the possible scenario's are discovered and understood. Put things in place so 'others ' cannot change your wishes. I know, easier said than done. Lives can change overtime. Take copies of everything and give them to family so ALL are aware of your plans. It is too late for us now re our Mother's situation. GREED changes people.
Somewhat similar to what I am going through. You are lucky that you found out while your mother is still around and you can correct this. My mother has POA for my father. My brother in law convinced my mother to add my sister and him to the deed of one of their homes stating they would pay the costs of the house to relieve my mother of the expenses. She signed the documents they presented her as "attorney in fact" for my father thinking my sister and her husband were being added when actually my parents were being removed from the deed and signed over to my sister and her husband. This was 10 years ago. My father recently passed and while settling the estate my brother and I found out what happened. My mother does not recall all the details now and never got copies of the documents she signed but she insists she did not give them the house. I had to get copies from the court. My father was competent at the time so my mother had no reason to sign as "attorney in fact" for my father. The only reason we can think is English is not my mothers native language and she trusted my brother in law. He would have had to tell her how to write "attorney in fact". My father would have read the documents, understood what they were, and would have refused to sign. My brother in law insists she "gave" the house to them knowingly. My father and mother had told us about adding my sister and her husband but they never told us about giving them the house. I am pretty sure the house was in my parents Living Trust and my mother did not sign the documents as "trustee to the Living Trust" as required. Since it has been 10 years, we are reluctant to pursue the issue. My mother is so upset and wants to write my sister and her husband out of her will and excluded from the Living Trust.
When the legal battle begins, you can kiss good-by tens of thousands of dollars for court costs and attorneys! Even Adult Protective Services (APS) has to go through the legal process. We really need some better systems. However, It is definitely very difficult to deal with inconsiderate, non-negotiable, self-centered behavior! And that's where the trouble begins!!
Most of the above answers assume quite a bit about wrondoing. What texastiedup said was that her brother "tricked" their mother into giving him power of attorney, then removed her signature authorization from mom's bank accounts.
What was the nature of the trick? What is his side of this? What wrongful things if any, has brother done with his POA Who is abusing who/what in this instance.
Given how little anyone on this list knows about this situation, most of the responses seem unwarranted and even inflamatory.
I agree with cartaker11. I also agree wirh own456 on many of the observations especially with regard to the courts siding with some siblings over others and the emergency guardian status. My sibs told my Mom they were taking her for ice cream and instead took her to a doctor of their choosing (an endocrinologist, not her neurologist of many years) to get a letter of incompetence. This precluded her from getting her own lawyer later, once she figured out what was going on. When I took her to see her brother who had just had quadruple bypass heart surgery, they reported that I had kidnapped her and was hiding her, even though they were told exactly where we were going. They granted my brother emergency guardian status, and because they had her declared incompetent, anything she says going forward, truth or not, will not be considered. Be careful. Document all interaction. Stay close to your Mom. Don't let your brother cut off your contact with her. Coercion is criminal. Protect her as best you can. If your interest is in protecting your inheritance, you will need a good lawyer that won't totally deplete the estate with fees.
I have one thing to say that is true but you do not know what goes on with the guardian system. Many times they pocket the money for themselves and do not pay the wards bills by the way do you work for the client or do you work for the fractured system itself? I would like to know! Besides if you look on the stand up and stay alive youtube search term and the National Association to stop guardian abuse youtube search term as well as stopguardianabuse.org you will find out this is more than just a Brothers Grimm story!
It has happened that when siblings disagree on who should have control, judges have given guardianship to a third party who can prohibit either child from seeing their parent and spend the parents estate on the court appointed guardians fees. Try to mediate with all concerned and stay out of court.
Even if the POA was signed with full understanding and consent of your mom, it is doubtful it permits him to change the accounts so they pass to him. There is the legal concept of "fiduciary duty" of the agent under a Power of Attorney, as well as state laws that prohibit the agent from using the power to benefit themselves. I would definitely consult with an attorney with elder law experience to assist you in this matter.
Did he have help from a lawyer who works with the department of Aging? Did he have a fiduciary lawyer that only does elder care law such as wills and Probates and gets highly paid for it? Is your mom of sound mind and able to make a decision such as this? If not you have grounds. Does your brother have a rap sheet or a record because if he does you can get this POA appealed. The other thing is was this POA stamped with a notary stamp by someone in the Administration or an Admissions Coordinator because if it was or even if he took it to get notarized and your mom was on a lot of medication or not feeling well at the time you could talk to your lawyer about getting the POA revoked and put back in your name. Since your brother is this sneaky going to a lawyer, your lawyer is the best defense you have. Going to the police would likely lead to them calling adult protective services and since your brother is that sneaky more than likely since he has the courts on his side he probably paid a judge for an emergency POA that would be permanent and had his own lawyers change your moms will and he was probably made emergency permanent guardian over her estate. You will have to drag this out in court to get these orders rescinded but it is better than not doing anything at all. If you do go to court and your brother starts threatening you your best line of defense then is to document each time he calls or has someone come by the house and get an Order of Protection. If you choose to call the police have a witness to your brothers behavior you may need them so you can file a complaint against your brother. If you file a complaint you may also have to have him charged with elder abuse. The other situation is are you still allowed to visit with your mom or did he cut the visits off all together. You have to document that when making a complaint to the police.
Begging you to be careful when throwing that accusation around, pamstegma, tina77 and any of the others of you ready to suggest accusing someone of elder financial abuse. It devastates and destroys lives if wrong. That said, in texastiedup's case, I would suggest they speak with an eldercare attorney. The question, not to offend, begs to know how much you were involved in your Mom's daily life, and how your brother was able to separate you from her enough to trick your Mom. Speak with the lawyer who changed the POA. Was this her regular lawyer or someone new your brother chose? If it was the regular family attorney, did the change seem strange to him/her? What reason did they give for the change? Please get ALL the information you can before moving forward. I wish you good luck, and peace for your Mom. Your relationship with your brother may be irretrievably broken, but that has to be okay, and you can deal with that, I'm sure. If it's about money, let him have it. What will it really benefit him in the end--ill gotten gains always end up paying for more harm than good. I told my Mom not to leave an inheritance, which made me wildly unpopular with my sibs. I spent 11 years taking care of Mom 24/7 only to be blindsided and falsely accused. It's taking a very long time to rebuild my life. I found myself homeless, jobless and broke at 61. I cared for my mother well, on my own. Now, under the care if my sibs, she is frail, unhappy and declining rapidly. I continue to fight for her as best I can, but with little or no resources, I don't know if I can save her in time. Again, good luck to you.
I would suggest you contact an Elder Law Attorney. You can find one through the bar association in your state. They will know what needs to be done. If you mother is of sound mind, then your pretty much sol, but if your mother has dementia then you have a much better change of getting the POA reversed or the court may appoint a conservator for your mother. Her primary doctor is a good source of information on whether your mother has the ability to understand.
We require a ' PROTECTION OF THE INDIGENT ACT' TO PREVENT THIS TYPE OF IN FIGHTING AND GREEDY SIBLINGS. THIS IS A VERY COMMON FAMILY PROBLEM AND NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IN EACH COUNTRY.
Most of the time the one who cares and does all the work taking care of parent is the one that lies are told on. The greedy sibling that makes these lying comments are the ones that don't help and are very selfish and narcisist I would suggest any one making this type of accusation be put in jail for a different type of parent abuse and that is not being present or helping in any way. Go to lawyer and file a false accusation report. The truth will come out.
A POA is a legal document that requires a witness to attest to the signature in front of a notary public. In many jurisdictions it can be registered with the local County. The notary or magistrate should be able to attest if the person presented before him to designate the person in the POA was able of free mind to sign the document. This type of family feud is unfortunate and the medical evidence of competency is vital.
File charges against your brother for elder abuse first thing. It is financial abuse. Have an estopel (stop action) on the bank accounts due & place a les pendins (suit pending) attachment. Nobody will be able to touch them. You will need an attorney for all of this.
I agree with Eldercarewiz and fourth daughter. The first thing you need to do is consult the eldrelaw attorney and take your mother to a neuropsych MD to evaluate her for dementia. There are also people called forensic psychologists who can determine if at the time your mom signed the POA she was competent or not. If she was not then the Elder Protective Services and an attorney can move forward with the courts to have your brother removed and have him repay any money he used inapporpriately. He will also be prosecuted. On the other hand if he was not coercing her and she is or was of sound mind, unfortnately she can make poor decisions. Decisons not in her best interest are often made by elders and their is nothing we can do to protect them if they are of sound mind. (competent.) This is where you need a complete Neuropsych exam, not only Folstein Mini Mental exam screening or the St. Louis University screening, but the full exam administered for a few hours by a licensed neuropsychologist. In my location I take my client to a medical physician who is also a neuropsychologist. The assessment is complete and they can determine her level of function and give a clear look as to what things she is capable of doing and what things, decison making and other which she needs help with. I wish you luck with this long and grueling process. Guardianship can be an option but it wouls be best to have the evidence of the medical and psych evaluation before going to court. This will expedite the process, but it is still a financial drain on your mother's estate and also a difficult thing emotionally for you and her to go through.
Yes it happened to my husband too.We knew about how mush she had in bonds and savings.But since we lived out of state and he was there all the time it looked like he was the only one caring for her. She was in nursing home for stoke . Their sister was a slow person and was lucky to get the car (she can't drive- lol). hubby got about $2000.00... and brother said he got the rest for doing paper work and being her ex. Called a lawyer and he said we did not have a leg- As long as everyone was mentioned in will (he got what she wanted him to have.) We wanted to see all her estate stuff and here again denied. So we got what we got and he got house paid and he had to pay to send their mom out of state to be buried. Next to second hubby. This son hated his dad for not being man enough to stay with their mother after she cheated on him when he was about 12-13. .My husband was in service then.He must of hated alt of family -for the way he treats them now- It's like he's afraid he's going to get caught and we can read his mind. Guilty his conscious is ouching him lol.
This is so horrendous and it happens frequently! My sister and her husband did this to my father 3 years ago when he was in hospice and they THOUGHT he was "on his way out". But thanks to the care he received and the grace of God he fooled everyone and lived 7 more months! My father did not have Alzheimers however and he was always cognizant, he had late stage COPD from smoking but his mind was intact. In those months that he lived on he realized what they were doing and he made ME the POA. I was able to halt at least some of the mess they created and the Care Center where he was at got in touch with the OMBUDSMAN for the state of NJ Senior Abuse not for their attempt to steal from him directly but because they were also stealing from the nursing home which it is almost impossible to get away with. The OMBUDSMAN came down and investigated and they did not do jail time but they DID get stuck with a bill for over $21,000.00 which they were trying to pin on me! I was able to put a stop to any more stealing . And I legally got emancipated from them as a family so I was free of any more debt and thievery they had incurred. My father did pass away 7 months later but in those months he because closer to my son and myself and my sis has to live with the guilt of his knowing they were stealing from him! The police really cannot do anything directly but they can put you in contact with either Senior Abuse offices in NJ or the state you live in as this issue is, unfortunately, very predominant right now. There are numerous offices in every state specially appointed for issues such as this or if she is in a Nursing Home, the OMBUDSMAN for that state can be called by the Nursing Home to investigate. Good luck - isn't it horrible to see what family can do to each other and to a parent? I always keep saying to myself about my sister "What goes around comes around!" And it will!
How did he trick her? My brother was POA and he didn't care about anything except the money, which he said he didn't even care about at the time. I had to go with my dad to change the POA to my name. The attorney has to be present at the time and it has to be determined that the person is of sound mind, when they sign.
My mother has POA for my father. My brother in law convinced my mother to add my sister and him to the deed of one of their homes stating they would pay the costs of the house to relieve my mother of the expenses. She signed the documents they presented her as "attorney in fact" for my father thinking my sister and her husband were being added when actually my parents were being removed from the deed and signed over to my sister and her husband. This was 10 years ago. My father recently passed and while settling the estate my brother and I found out what happened. My mother does not recall all the details now and never got copies of the documents she signed but she insists she did not give them the house. I had to get copies from the court. My father was competent at the time so my mother had no reason to sign as "attorney in fact" for my father. The only reason we can think is English is not my mothers native language and she trusted my brother in law. He would have had to tell her how to write "attorney in fact". My father would have read the documents, understood what they were, and would have refused to sign. My brother in law insists she "gave" the house to them knowingly. My father and mother had told us about adding my sister and her husband but they never told us about giving them the house. I am pretty sure the house was in my parents Living Trust and my mother did not sign the documents as "trustee to the Living Trust" as required. Since it has been 10 years, we are reluctant to pursue the issue. My mother is so upset and wants to write my sister and her husband out of her will and excluded from the Living Trust.
What was the nature of the trick? What is his side of this? What wrongful things if any, has brother done with his POA Who is abusing who/what in this instance.
Given how little anyone on this list knows about this situation, most of the responses seem unwarranted and even inflamatory.
The police really cannot do anything directly but they can put you in contact with either Senior Abuse offices in NJ or the state you live in as this issue is, unfortunately, very predominant right now. There are numerous offices in every state specially appointed for issues such as this or if she is in a Nursing Home, the OMBUDSMAN for that state can be called by the Nursing Home to investigate. Good luck - isn't it horrible to see what family can do to each other and to a parent? I always keep saying to myself about my sister "What goes around comes around!" And it will!