I have one thing to say that is true but you do not know what goes on with the guardian system. Many times they pocket the money for themselves and do not pay the wards bills by the way do you work for the client or do you work for the fractured system itself? I would like to know! Besides if you look on the stand up and stay alive youtube search term and the National Association to stop guardian abuse youtube search term as well as stopguardianabuse.org you will find out this is more than just a Brothers Grimm story!
I agree with cartaker11. I also agree wirh own456 on many of the observations especially with regard to the courts siding with some siblings over others and the emergency guardian status. My sibs told my Mom they were taking her for ice cream and instead took her to a doctor of their choosing (an endocrinologist, not her neurologist of many years) to get a letter of incompetence. This precluded her from getting her own lawyer later, once she figured out what was going on. When I took her to see her brother who had just had quadruple bypass heart surgery, they reported that I had kidnapped her and was hiding her, even though they were told exactly where we were going. They granted my brother emergency guardian status, and because they had her declared incompetent, anything she says going forward, truth or not, will not be considered. Be careful. Document all interaction. Stay close to your Mom. Don't let your brother cut off your contact with her. Coercion is criminal. Protect her as best you can. If your interest is in protecting your inheritance, you will need a good lawyer that won't totally deplete the estate with fees.
Most of the above answers assume quite a bit about wrondoing. What texastiedup said was that her brother "tricked" their mother into giving him power of attorney, then removed her signature authorization from mom's bank accounts.
What was the nature of the trick? What is his side of this? What wrongful things if any, has brother done with his POA Who is abusing who/what in this instance.
Given how little anyone on this list knows about this situation, most of the responses seem unwarranted and even inflamatory.
When the legal battle begins, you can kiss good-by tens of thousands of dollars for court costs and attorneys! Even Adult Protective Services (APS) has to go through the legal process. We really need some better systems. However, It is definitely very difficult to deal with inconsiderate, non-negotiable, self-centered behavior! And that's where the trouble begins!!
Somewhat similar to what I am going through. You are lucky that you found out while your mother is still around and you can correct this. My mother has POA for my father. My brother in law convinced my mother to add my sister and him to the deed of one of their homes stating they would pay the costs of the house to relieve my mother of the expenses. She signed the documents they presented her as "attorney in fact" for my father thinking my sister and her husband were being added when actually my parents were being removed from the deed and signed over to my sister and her husband. This was 10 years ago. My father recently passed and while settling the estate my brother and I found out what happened. My mother does not recall all the details now and never got copies of the documents she signed but she insists she did not give them the house. I had to get copies from the court. My father was competent at the time so my mother had no reason to sign as "attorney in fact" for my father. The only reason we can think is English is not my mothers native language and she trusted my brother in law. He would have had to tell her how to write "attorney in fact". My father would have read the documents, understood what they were, and would have refused to sign. My brother in law insists she "gave" the house to them knowingly. My father and mother had told us about adding my sister and her husband but they never told us about giving them the house. I am pretty sure the house was in my parents Living Trust and my mother did not sign the documents as "trustee to the Living Trust" as required. Since it has been 10 years, we are reluctant to pursue the issue. My mother is so upset and wants to write my sister and her husband out of her will and excluded from the Living Trust.
These stories are all devastating. Our family story is a combination of all the above. All have a common denominator, trust. I hope everyone puts the message out to as many people as possible. Get educated in all aspects re POA's, EPOA's, Wills etc. Acquire legal advice as well to ensure all the possible scenario's are discovered and understood. Put things in place so 'others ' cannot change your wishes. I know, easier said than done. Lives can change overtime. Take copies of everything and give them to family so ALL are aware of your plans. It is too late for us now re our Mother's situation. GREED changes people.
Sister in law, attorney, was in debt and used POA to direct hospital to end my Daddy's life, including consulting with employees of State Health Dept, 4 attempts at colonospy, he lost 40 pounds, also while this sister in law was removing several electronic withdrawals from Dad's bank. He checked himself out of hospital and redid trust/will because of the withdrawals but then because of the weight loss, swallowed soup and went into lungs which killed him. Sister in law removed all of my Mother's medicines the day my Dad was buried, and sister in law went to Mother's doctor using my sister and I's ID to authorize the removal of all med. Doctor told her "We don't worry about removing medicines from women her age. Since Mother on Statin, Mother had stroke two months later. This doesn't tell you the cruel things this sister in law attorney did to my Mother, and the lies she told my Daddy. The attorneys we hired were just as crooked.
rkokish, that's why I asked texastiedup about involvement in Mom's daily life, and what the interaction was with the lawyer. These accusations are serious and devastating, and I don't believe anyone wants to inflame an already bad situation. However, if texastiedup has been removed from POD designations, and bequests have changed, there is obvious reason for concern.
I am not sure about Texas law but, if she is still of sound mind, she should be able to revoke that POA and have another one written which would put you back on the list. Then you should be able to approach the bank and have things put back as they were. That may be the simplest and least expensive way to deal with it if Texas law permits it.
I tried to call my uncle in PA. at the veterans home. Seems my step aunt before she passed in 2008 she left my step cousins strict orders to make sure my uncle was not disturbed from family in the mid west meaning Illinois and Missouri. My evil step cousins have POA and they decided that instead of the nice apartment he was living in on reduced rent they would put him in a facility where the nurses are like hard hearted Hanna's. I would call up to my uncle's room and his cell phone would go straight through to his voice mail and my step aunts voice from the great beyond was on the voice recording like she had not left. That is the spooky part. Not only did I have to call the charge nurse to tell her I am not mad but a little disappointed in the facilities behavior in turning my uncles phone off and I did not demand but I asked her to have my uncle call. Guess what he did call back but I felt like we could not have a private conversation because the nurses put him on one of their cell phones and taped the whole conversation. That is the government for you! His own step daughters sent a message loud and clear when they came to St. Louis Missouri in 2005 and picked up my uncle and step aunt and took them to PA. That was it they were going to dictate every move he made every doctor he went to they had to okay who or what type of family he saw or spoke to. They even got rid of a lot of his belongings that belonged to him even the nice clock I got him for his birthday they owe me for because they sold it. Those belongings of his were not for them to sell those were his keepsakes. Yet those retched daughters of his wife decided to sell his keepsakes and give him no alternative but to go to PA. The only two times he came back here was in 2009 to see family in collinsville Illinois and shortly before my eldest uncle who lived in Cahokia died in 2008. I feel that I am also walked on emotionally by my step cousins every time I hear the voice of their mothers on that voice mail and wish they would take the voice off there and stop dictating every move my uncle makes and let him have his nice apartment again in a Christian facility with a private nurse that is not a fiduciary like themselves. It hurts when I can't talk to him the way I used to because of my step cousins and their ruthless behavior and the government red tape that allows this.
Just as a thought a civilized idea on my part, Medicare should pay the fees for an elder attorney as part of the medical procedure and called in prior to the patient arriving at the loss of cognizance as a service like PT,OR, MT. Do away with notary just two non family witnesses. Remind Congress this is our Black Plague now known as Alzheimer's Dementia.
I saw that I could actually believe how much that type of care cost. There are assisted living places in Missouri and Illinois that charge in the thousands for that type of care. Even at a low level facility it could cost in the several hundreds of dollars on both sides of the Mississippi. I think with the medicare cost and the hospital cost at St. Elizabeth and Memorial here in town people with memory loss are more susceptible to taking the advise of a military doctor at St. Elizabeth hospital because if they are seen in a clinic by a civilian doctor at Southern Illinois Healthcare foundation and then they are seen by a stranger in the hospital they are more likely to sign forms enabling the stranger to put them in a low level facility so medicare can pay less for sub par care. In other words if they are afraid of this strange doctor the doctor can have the pull to keep medicare cost down for the government they work for. Doctors like this that don't see the patients outside of the hospital have a way of not wanting relatives around when papers are signed for transfer nor do they want the POA around so they can push through the paper work and claim they have prior consent of someone who has memory problems and they even do this to heart attack and stroke victims as well. If you go to any hospital and see a social worker come to a patients room with papers to sign instead of a nurse that should be a red flag that your loved one does not belong there at that facility. It is all about money even the visiting nurses and home health know it is all about cash money. The department of aging and some people not all people but some in estate planning can get a chunk of that estate if they tend to and often times do play their cards right. There are some Adult protective Services workers that will often become guardians of wards to get a big pay day. They want their share also.
someone wrote "Medicare should pay the fees for an elder attorney as part of the medical procedure" .... I don't think Medicare has any business paying LEGAL bills. Medicare doesn't even pay a lot of MEDICAL bills so why would the taxpayers want to pay non-medical bills? maybe Obama should require everyone to have Legal Insurance instead, that would be more in line.
The original poster did not give enough details for anyone here to be able to give an accurate response. This forum (Aging Care) is really not the answer---the original poster needs to seek personalized help specific to their family's case, from an elder lawyer.
All comments are personal experiences based on a persons perspective related to the intensity of the problem. Seniors and caregivers living and fighting to beat the plague of AD should be offered every legal right for services to include legal, caregiver services, medical services and if homebound hospice care. It can be based on a means test in a democratic society people must be served to fight the elements that they cannot afford on their own. Medicare has to be progressive with changes to fit the plague.
In the 1980s and 1970s we all got along fine without this Power of Attorney legislation and the living will legislation and Adult Protective services and department of aging. In the 1990s Bill Clinton Hilary's husband and Chelsey's father decided it was a fantastic ideology to have a Power of Attorney legislation that would quote enable the elderly or disabled to make decisions about if they want to be on life support or not and how they wanted to live their lives. Since then the Power of Attorney has not been used for its original intent to help the elderly and disabled plan their last wishes as well as their life. The POA has been used as a power grab for money to gain control of real estate and the will itself as well as the deed on someones property all the while the person the documents were supposed to protect do not have the quality of life deemed in these documents. I keep thinking back to when we could live happy as families and have our wish for our parents and grandparents to get old on the porch in the rocking chair and now with the end of life counseling this administration imposed we do not have that promise any more if we do not petition and fight these legislation that were wrong to pass in the first place. Relatives need to spend time with each other in old age and not worry if the big bad bear of a government and the doctors are planning an early demise.
The POA was designed to protect the patients dictates. It prevents family members to usurp the chattel of the persons wealth and when executed with someone in a sound mind, witnessed, notarized it is a legal document and safeguarded it prevents others from any illegal attempts to utilize all property of the now patient.
These things can get very complicated. Here we needed to file a report with Adult Protective Services before the police would get involved. In the meantime, the family member passed away. APS determined that since there was now an attorney to help with distribution of the trust, there was no need for action. When I contacted several an elder care attorneys, they said that there was indeed a case, but because of the time involved the retainer fees would be between 10,000 and 12,000 dollars. It's a shame that there is no help for those who really need it meanwhile the perpetrator has to answer to no one. We estimate about 500K was taken and there is nothing the beneficiaries could do about it without coming up with a large sum of money to fight him. Even if we had been able to come up with the retainer fee, we were told that we still would need to prove he intended to be malicious. Not an easy feat when the document is signed by witnesses or a Notary.
yes indeed you make a good case for Government intervening as I am advocating. The survivor in this case is now the victim. The attorney fees should also be regulated in a case of this nature since criminal intent is obvious.
I am guardian for my disabled son and POA for my mother and I can tell you that the responsibilities are different. Although a guardian can also be responsible for handling. I have been told by several official sources that one person should not be both for one person - better checks and balances that way. My advice - start with the lawyer who drew up the POA. My mom made me POA and used her long time lawyer. When we went to him to draw everything up, after her desires were discussed the lawyer had me leave the room and talked with her without me present to ensure she wasn't being pressured by me. Was something like this done for your mom? Next I would talk to her doctor and determine if she is mentally competent and if not try to pinpoint a date of when dementia became a factor. Before or after the POA appointment. And while this may not apply to your case I'm gonna through this out there as well. I was made POA three years ago and at the same time my mom made a new will (again, I was asked to wait outside while the terms were decided upon and was only given the will - for safe keeping - after it was signed and notarized. My mom took a fall 2 months ago and for some reason it kicked off full blown dementia. Now my brother who was only minimally present prior is all of a sudden around all the time. He is helping some but I can't help but be suspicious - he's pulled some questionable things in the past. So while it took some time I waited for an opening when I could say - without accusations - " you know mom can no longer change her will or legal appointments any longer with her dementia diagnosis? A judge would rule for what her wishes were prior to her lossing it". I just felt better letting him know I wasn't gonna let him pull any funny business.
The intent of your mothers presence was to appoint you the POA. No need for the lawyer to talk to her outside of your hearing. This might be considered a malpractice if your brother contests the document as suspected collusion when you exercise your rights under the POA.
Is your mother in the correct frame of mind? If not, get a letter from her doctor stipulating when her dementia/alzheimers started, and how far it's advanced . It is illegal, for her to sign legal documents if these conditions, (or similar ones) exist. It is also illegal for the attorney to allow the POA to be signed by her. Check with you lawyer (or legal aid). Your brother can be brought up on charges, as well as the attorney, (depending on the severity of her illness).
I forgot to tell you ... Be careful if the courts should order a financial investigation, (I forget the official name) into your mother's finances. This person is provided by the courts, BUT ... this person is paid out of your mother's money. And they are VERY EXPENSIVE!!!!!
You REALLY should consult with an elder care attorney.
Take it from my experience, now is the most important time to hire a honest, good attorney. My brother used POA (to pay monthly bills) and ended both of my parents lives, cashed in all the annuities and policies and took all the cash. My sister in law (who is La attorney) planned and carried out the whole thing.
Realdottir I am in the same boat. I collapsed at work. Assisted living staff acts like I am the dirtbag. It is the devils work, trying to grab the old souls first. Ugh.
What was the nature of the trick? What is his side of this? What wrongful things if any, has brother done with his POA Who is abusing who/what in this instance.
Given how little anyone on this list knows about this situation, most of the responses seem unwarranted and even inflamatory.
My mother has POA for my father. My brother in law convinced my mother to add my sister and him to the deed of one of their homes stating they would pay the costs of the house to relieve my mother of the expenses. She signed the documents they presented her as "attorney in fact" for my father thinking my sister and her husband were being added when actually my parents were being removed from the deed and signed over to my sister and her husband. This was 10 years ago. My father recently passed and while settling the estate my brother and I found out what happened. My mother does not recall all the details now and never got copies of the documents she signed but she insists she did not give them the house. I had to get copies from the court. My father was competent at the time so my mother had no reason to sign as "attorney in fact" for my father. The only reason we can think is English is not my mothers native language and she trusted my brother in law. He would have had to tell her how to write "attorney in fact". My father would have read the documents, understood what they were, and would have refused to sign. My brother in law insists she "gave" the house to them knowingly. My father and mother had told us about adding my sister and her husband but they never told us about giving them the house. I am pretty sure the house was in my parents Living Trust and my mother did not sign the documents as "trustee to the Living Trust" as required. Since it has been 10 years, we are reluctant to pursue the issue. My mother is so upset and wants to write my sister and her husband out of her will and excluded from the Living Trust.
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It is illegal, for her to sign legal documents if these conditions, (or similar ones) exist. It is also illegal for the attorney to allow the POA to be signed by her.
Check with you lawyer (or legal aid). Your brother can be brought up on charges, as well as the attorney, (depending on the severity of her illness).
Good luck and God bless . . .
You REALLY should consult with an elder care attorney.