Boyfriend of daughter with narcisistic Mom. Is there anything I can do?

I'm sorry but this is - please do not get me wrong - ridiculous. My mother, really both my parents, are NPD's. Both think they are the center of the universe. My mother never treated me like a daughter per se, more like competition. I made a bad choice in a marriage partner and had three kids with him in my early 20's - 30's. But I always had the self protective instincts to get away from my dysfunctional family and when I did, I realized actually 'why'. I found out he had been cheating on me most of my marriage and sought counseling so that I would not repeat the past. So it's been about 30 years since I learned where things went wrong and the work I would have to do all my life on myself and be aware of making better, healthier choices. I was able to see previously that I basically had married my mother. I have been married for 13 years to a true husband, lover, and mutual partner in life. But not all women (and men) do that. I am sorry for them, but the truth is, taking on a project at the age of probably sixty or so is bound for failure. I hate to say this so bluntly, but your wanting to fix this person and 'be there' while she ruminates, pulls away, comes back forward, etc. says something about you as much as about her. If each of you is healthy you will each find and be in healthy relationships, either with each other or separately. Since you have no commitment to each other and evidently you are now broken up, I would strongly advise you, for you own wellbeing and happiness, to seek counseling and find out why you need this dysfunction in your life at this stage. Life is short. You should get one (a life).

...& powerless we are~
All of us , each in our journey.
Your story, not so different then mine.
We each have to walk our own path.
Sometimes we believe that another~WE LOVE SO MUCH~WHO JUST DOESN'T GET IT, if only, when, the trip can go on & on.
I speak to you from my heart, from my experience~
Having experienced loss of children, caring for another who knows not my name.
I have learned at this point to TRUST THE PROCESS. I wish I could articulate that better for you; I am at a loss for words...to me, that is good.
....some would say, that is bad for then you're not thinking. I personally say~I NEED TO GO INTO THE QUIET PLACE. I wish this to just flow through my hands. It is as if I am writing to myself only in you? PEACE~

Excellent, compassionate and insightful responses. My first thought when I began reading the posts was that L has over the years grown into a person who is shaped by her family/adoption history and her adoptive mother's behavior and needs. The cheating ex-BF was a similar relationship.

Eventually that becomes part of her personality, and part of her emotional need.

Unless you want for yourself the same kind of relationship she has with her mother, I would back off as others have suggested and just be a good friend, but not a boyfriend or potential mate. You may find that L's emotional needs will drag you down, or worse yet, change your behavior to that of those who have emotionally abused her.

When I read your statement "She has said she 'will do anything for that woman as she goes through dying' I thought to myself, this woman will subordinate herself entirely to someone and sacrifice her own personality in the process. That's not something that can be changed with the love of a good, stable man; it's something that requires therapy.

Sorry to be blunt, but I think you would only be in for heartache if you allow L to become more than a friend. You don't want your behavior to be changed to conform to that of the people to whom she has subordinated her life.

Best wishes on creating some kind of balance so that you can still be a friend but not more than that.

I'd like to make a point about those who judge scaffrey's behavior as codependent. I hate that word, it's a modern pop psychology one-size-fits-many term that places blame on the victims for loving too deeply.

We are pack animals, we need each other and a wonderful few have deep compassion like his.

Yes, we need common sense and we need boundaries, but it's those who care a little too much who make the world a better place. Those of us who care too much only need to remember to love OURSELVES and protect ourselves by stepping back emotionally to clearly see things for what they are.

Deep connection to Jesus/God/a higher power/the universe helps us KNOW we are loved. Knowing we are loved and protected allows us to be compassionate without expectation.

Namaste

A caregiver of a dying care-receiver has too many issues and time-demands to be making any long-term decisions. This is true not matter what the relationship between the giver and receiver is like.

If that were the only factor here, I'd say be patient and if you think the relationship has long-term potential, stay in the background and stay supportive on a "friend" level.

But there is another factor here. Your gf was given up by her birth parents and was emotionally abused by her adoptive parent, who was mentally ill. This factor is Not Her Fault, but it is not your fault, either. The fact that she does not seem to recognize how dysfunctional her situation is does not seem encouraging for a quick healthy outcome.

Perhaps it would be good for you to have a few sessions with a counselor. Not because there is anything "wrong" with you, but because you are in a difficult situation and deserve good help in moving forward in a way that is healthy for you.

Do let us know how this plays out for you. We care!

Tell her you love her, that you will wait for her, that she only needs to call to talk, that you understand and respect her decision to stand by her mother. That way the rejection of you is now an option for her.

All I can say is NEVER get between the mother and daughter. You cannot win. You will end up the enemy of both.

You know how we're allowed to criticise our own families, but we take it so badly when outsiders do? It's the same but more so for your former g/f, L. You can see what her mother's treatment has done to her. She may or may not, probably not because she isn't even looking; but the point is she doesn't want to hear it. And certainly not from you.

I agree with the consensus about the kind of choices L has made. Poor ones, habitually. Some people just do do that. It could be she pushed you away because things were all going too well. It could be that her mother takes up so much of her focus she can't cope with anything else. Whatever it is, though, you can't invite yourself back in; it won't work. Any pressure you put on her, even unintentionally, even complimentary pressure, will add to her stress. Don't do it.

I do agree, too, though, with VStefans, that if you want to be a friend to L there are things you can do that will brighten her day. It can be good to know that someone is rooting for you. It could be that in the fullness of time she'll want to think again. But if you do that with any expectations you are not respecting L's need for space to deal with her issues, and you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Be a loyal friend by all means, and good for you, but for heaven's sake don't turn down any better offers.

She's not going to be able to take any time away from Mom now. Its actualy worse to lose a parent when the relationship was stormy, and she could not possibly handle the guilt if she did. Having you in her life and having you need attention and time was probalby just a source of guilt and she had to "choose" for the time being. MAYBE, maybe...if it is in your heart, and would not be readily misinterpreted, some kind of day-brightener card or gift with no strings attached, flowers or something, literally labeled "just thinking of you, no strings attached, I know how hard it is caring for your Mom" to let her know you still care and might be there when the dust settles if she wants. I mean don't be a stalker or anything, but if there is a way you could communicate that it might be good.

Great point MickiSuzanne! I read your statement about your ex and your mother and thought I wrote it myself! That was my big 'ah ha' moment too. I figured it out 22 years ago when I got divorced. I kept wondering how I had such a solicitous father who would do anything for my mother who he made constant excuses for and then married such a verbally and emotionally abusive, cheating man who was constantly manipulative. And then I sat up one night after a lot of counseling and thought "I didn't marry a man like my father. I married a man like my MOTHER". It made sense to me that even as a woman, regardless, your primary trusting, loving relationship is with your mom. A), if you are unlovable to the person who birthed you, you must obviously BE unlovable. And B) when you have a codependent spouse aka "Dad" telling you that this crazy person 'loves' you, you grow up thinking that's what love IS. It must hurt, it must be 'earned', like the carrot you will never reach, hanging in front of your nose. I have always since then 'gotten' the term 'recovering' because I will never be 'over' my mother not loving me (she has told me since I figured it all out, among other things, that she didn't really bond with me as a baby". WHAT???). It is work to remind yourself that you are good, lovable, not perfect but who is, that is fine.
I have a great, long term marriage to the love of my life now. But I had to be ready for it and him and know I deserved to be happy and love doesn't have to be complicated and drama, drama, drama. BTW I do not speak to my family or my mother. She still tells everyone how terrible I am and that I am the problem,etc. I can't say that it never gets to me. And she has successfully turned my whole family against me and worked my own daughter (who inherited her dad's genes I think). It isn't all the perfect happy ending. Nothing this messed up is. But I am happy and wouldn't trade what I have for anything and all the hard work is worth it.

What is striking me right now is that YOU are co-dependent. You see the issues with L and her mother, but you do not seem struck by the fact that you love a clearly dysfunctional person who has all her life made bad choices. If her mother is 97 your GF can't be really young. The likelihood that she is going to 'change' isn't great. If I were you, I would seek some personal counseling and try to get your own issues resolved. Move on and heal yourself. If she comes around then wonderful. Meanwhile, you yourself will be able to make better choices. And hopefully either you will both be healthy emotionally or you will be well enough to not want an unhealthy relationship for yourself. Third thought is that someone who is 97 is not going to live forever! But whether she is alive or not is not the issue. And neither is waiting for your GF to fix herself.

Wonderful, kind, compassionate, yet realistic, responses here.

Speaking as the daughter of a narcissistic mother, I have to say some of us spend our lives trying to earn their approval. And some of us make awful choices in relationships; from what I've read, it's an attempt to subconsciously right the wrongs of childhood.

I was drawn to alcoholic narcissists and the last one was abusive. I'm still healing from that damage. The book "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship" has a chart. You're asked to check off your partner's positive aspects and negative aspects. On another page it asks you to do the same with the person most responsible for raising you.

My abusive narcissist ex and my mother were exactly the same.

I would let L know you will continue to be there to support her emotionally, by text, email or phone or in person. That is love, that is loyalty. Only you can decide if it's too much self-sacrifice. If it is, continued friendship is a wonderful thing. True friendship is all love without expectations.

Don't tell her the truth, she will see you as a problem to be avoided. Truth is (usually) something we have to find on our own.

Blessings.

Move on. Everything is a gift. We just forget, only to remember. Life is way to short to attempt to hang on to this. Rejoice in all that you are.

I agree with what Eddie said. Sometimes a breakup is just a breakup. It is always sad, but moving on is all we can do.

People make choices, and love makes you do silly things. Forgive my bluntness, but just as she seems to need to explore the issue of narcissism you should revisit the value of self-esteem and self-worth. Don't sit around waiting for scraps and move on with your life. There are many wonderful women out there willing to explore the special person you are; and to meet you half-way without excuses.

If you are still communicating with the girlfriend....or perhaps...just for your own future well being....this book might be a great gift or resource item: "Boundaries" Book By: Dr. Henry Cloud, Dr. John Townsend. It was a life saver to me, as I had to take over care for my parents, and neither their relationship together, or mine, especially with my mother, was good. My mother has a narcissistic personality and is also very obsessive-compulsive, and now with dementia too....so she's a 'pistol' to have to deal with. I could NEVER live with her or bring her into our home and survive it!! Boundaries teaches people from these kinds of relationships just how to recognize their own needs and set their own boundaries....for self preservation. There is also a book aimed just at children caring for parents that might be helpful. I cannot believe how much these books helped me! Good luck.

Wow, this is my Dad to a "t." I read all the time about narcs.Imagine when they get dementia - if they thought they were the center of the universe before that, its scary what happens when they get dementia.

"NPD parents get the toxic mess on everybody that has contact with the family. It's like emotional poop that get sprayed everywhere, and it doesn't end the day they die. NPD leaves a nasty legacy behind in the survivors. It is very common for children of NPD parents to have ongoing relationship problems due to the family/home life they had, and it's nothing they are doing consciously. You need to educate yourself on what Narcissistic Personality Disorder really is before you talk yourself into further emotional investment or any relationship rescue attempts. NPD is another planet and it requires a comittment to therapy and purposeful self change to overcome it as the child of an NPD person. It takes years of hard work to get past it to be healthy and have healthy relationships with more than a houseplant."

Daughter of a narcissistic (NPD) mother here.....

Sometimes rejection is protection. This is important to keep in mind.

NPD parents get the toxic mess on everybody that has contact with the family. It's like emotional poop that get sprayed everywhere, and it doesn't end the day they die. NPD leaves a nasty legacy behind in the survivors. It is very common for children of NPD parents to have ongoing relationship problems due to the family/home life they had, and it's nothing they are doing consciously. You need to educate yourself on what Narcissistic Personality Disorder really is before you talk yourself into further emotional investment or any relationship rescue attempts. NPD is another planet and it requires a comittment to therapy and purposeful self change to overcome it as the child of an NPD person. It takes years of hard work to get past it to be healthy and have healthy relationships with more than a houseplant.

L might go through life having many relationships she ends just when things are going well because that's the programming involved with an NPD person. There is a deep dark hole of "might be" when it comes to loving an NPD person or the children who are surviving NPD.

Or it could be simple. If L is caregiving a dying parent, she won't have time for herself, therapy, or a relationship with anybody or anything else. It could be a long time before she's clear of all that. She may never be over it, even after her mom dies because NPD cancels out one person's self for the other. If L has never had a chance to discover her own person, she will have a hard time when her mom dies. NPD is like a parasitic relationship, where one of you has to completely let go of all personality, all desires, all opinions to satisfy the narcissist. If a relationship rescue were a plausible thing here, I would not bet on success because of the caregiving obligation. Caregiving an NPD person is more than all consuming. That NPD person will own your mind and soul.

Maybe the universe is telling you to learn something from this so ou can steer away in the future, and continue on your own path. Wish her well, but take care of yourself, and let this go.

If she's not your girlfriend anymore you have no choice but to let go and let her do what she needs to do. Trying to analyze her so you can get back in her life isn't going to work. Caregiving breaks up relationships all the time and if you try to interfere with her taking care of her mom (regardless of whether her mom is a narcissist or not) you'll be the one left out in the cold. Your ex-girlfriend made it clear that this is what she's going to do.

I'm sorry that you're hurting over the break-up but the best thing you can do is leave her alone and let her come to some realizations on her own, if she's capable of that. You can't and shouldn't force them down her throat, people need to learn for themselves. You feel powerless because you are powerless. Respect her decision to end the relationship.