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Send, my three kids are millenials. Are all working. Are all married.

For a brief period, daughter #2 and her husband moved in with my ex, who has a large house with a mother in law apartment. This was during a time when son in law lost his job and daughter was suffering from a relapse of chronic depression.

Situation went downhill after a few weeks, because " the kids" got comfortable. Ex and his wife got very frustrated with non movement. At that point, ex and I and our spouses went to dinner and agreed that kids should be given a deadline and they must move. Ex ascertained that I would not take them in ( I live in a small apartment) and that I would not undermine his efforts to get them to move on ( like say what a terrible father he was. He's not)

So the kids got a fire lit, they asked each of us to cosign lease and we all said no. They moved. They have a baby now. They are adult children. They support themselves and I don't interfere in their lives.

That's the way I heard it should be. I don't have opinions about their jobs or their spouses or how they raise their kids unless I'm asked. By the same token, my parents would never have asked to move in with me. Different families have different family values, i guess. Those are ours.
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Barb, Good to hear a success story about millennials. Every generation has stories that can define the group as a joke, that is often far from the truth.
I apologized in advance, and again now, to you. Sorry.
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Send, no need to apologize, I posted it as an instruction manual for others.

I have friends whose kids live in their basements. Or parents have brought them an apartment. " Oh, I couldn't just kick him out, he'd never survive". Really? What part of parenting 101 didn't you read...the part about raising a child who can support her/himself and not be dependent upon others?

There are adult kids out there whose parents haven't acknowledged the mental illness or addiction problem that is limiting their child's life choices, and that is sad. You need to get that under control and treated, if you can.

But there is a whole other category of "refusal to launch" types who seem to find it more comfortable at home. That's where fires need to be lit.
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Barb; no kidding! My sister has both of her grown children living with her, and the 30 y/o daughter does not work b/c she had a baby out of wedlock and 'needs to take care of her'. In spite of my sister offering to look after the baby in the evenings so she CAN work. Her 28 y/o son decided he was in love with another man from across the country, so my sister moved HIM into her house as well! She, of course, had to rent a much bigger house that required both her salary and her husband's salary to manage. Guess what? Her husband dropped dead 2 weeks ago (at 59 years old!), and she found him on the floor of their bedroom when she woke up in the morning! The life insurance was minimal, and now she'll be forced to manage on one salary. So she's thinking of moving the do-nothing daughter's boyfriend into the house as well, so he can 'save money' to marry her!! I told her I will not speak to her anymore if she moves another MOOCHER into her house. It is our responsibility as parents to raise children to become productive members of society, rather than leeches who live off of us! This subject gets me so aggravated I can hardly stand it.

Fires need to be lit indeed! But will they be? Unlikely.
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OK, and as my wife has been telling me its not that bad there is worse...... Sorry to hear your sisters situation (lealonnie1) situation....

Just attempting to better me by trying to reduce stress. Kids are off on vaca this week so maybe 1/2 of my stress is away for a while. But their dog is here, He seems to be OK when it is just us.
Starting to get active, need 30 minutes a day activity for me.
Plan not to stress too much.... Had a nice breakfast with my wife this AM in her sun room before work, just 4 of us (2 dogs)..... Oh well. This AM Dad is standing in the basement with the door open waiting for his dog to do his business outside. "do you mind closing the door, my heat is on".... "I didn't know your heat was on"... "it's always on"..... apparently when you don't have to pay the bills you don't have to worry about them! At least he will be out most of the day so I will have some quiet..... yea for the little things......
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I have had a different situation with my 50 year old daughter. She divorced 15 years ago (from a domineering, cruel man) She was always hyperactive, emotional, introverted and a hard child to raise (not a bad child, just emotionally exhausting). She was not a joiner, seems to have a "kick me" sign on her back. She finds a man and hangs on even though its obvious they are not right for each other, until the guy eventually ends it. Drama, drama, drama. She never made women friends, and still has none. So every little drama in her life, she calls me and DUMPS for months, and e-mails, "poor me" "I'm always going to be alone" "what is wrong with me" "all I want is what you and Mary, and Linda have".   She has a good job, and education and her own home even if she has never mastered finances beyond living from paycheck to paycheck.
I am 70 and this has been going on for years.  I'm exhausted, saying the same thing, giving the same advice (never taken) trying to bolster her insecurities and depression.   You know the saying "a parent is only as happy as her least happy child" maybe a little bit true because I can't get away from the thought that my daughter is alone and sad. She says she is going to go to counseling this time, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I love her, but I'm glad she live 1000 miles away.   She would ruin my marriage, repeating herself over and over making the same mistakes and then self punishing and crying.  She often calls at dinner time and babbles on and on for hours if I let her.  I'm afraid she is too much like my mother, needy, negative and emotionally self destructive and her own worst enemy.   All I want is for her to find the right someone and settle down and be happy or at least decide to make a life for herself as a single person. I can't do that for her.  Sadly, I think her 21 year old daughter, the millennial, is the same drama queen type, only she is lazy and selfish on top of it, which at least my daughter is not.
I keep asking myself, isn't retirement when the outside stress and responsibility is supposed to go away freeing us to concentrate on our own health issues and planning our future care?  Sigh!
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I have had a different situation with my 50 year old daughter. She divorced 15 years ago (from a domineering, cruel man) She was always hyperactive, emotional, introverted and a hard child to raise (not a bad child, just emotionally exhausting). She was not a joiner, seems to have a "kick me" sign on her back. She finds a man and hangs on even though its obvious they are not right for each other, until the guy eventually ends it. Drama, drama, drama. She never made women friends, and still has none. So every little drama in her life, she calls me and DUMPS for months, and e-mails, "poor me" "I'm always going to be alone" "what is wrong with me". I am 70 now, and exhausted, saying the same thing, giving the same advice (never taken) trying to bolster her insecurities and depression. It goes on and on and you know the saying "a parent is only as happy as her least happy child" maybe a little bit true because I can't get away from the thought that my daughter is alone and sad. She says she is going to go to counseling this time, but I'll believe it when I see it. I love her, but I'm glad she live 1000 miles away. I'm afraid she is too much like my mother, needy, negative and emotionally self destructive and her own worst enemy. All I want is for her to find the right someone and settle down and be happy or at least decide to make a life for herself as a single person. I can't do that for her.
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Trying to be nice to dad. Once I start he starts. I asked him to look at a project that was done and of course much dissertation which opened the door for him to tell me how to do another project (this was only the first 3 minutes). Then "I can do that if you let me".... once you open the box you cant get it back in....
He gets upset when e don't talk then once I do he starts telling me how it should be done...... it's is like a horse at the starting gate.....
Trying..... it is hard living with guests.... or family....... permanently.
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melt down #2 tonight. Kids got home from a great vacation. Daughter lays out her plan to buy a house without husband. Needs 5K from her money her grandmother left her for a down payment to fix her credit. So I write her a check. I make a nice dinner for everyone. husband comes home have a nice dinner. Then I go to do some work after I made dinner and no one helps my wife clean up, Of course "do you need help?, they all leave. Then the melt down. Thus I need a new coffee pot tomorrow,. Meltdowns are not good...... they need to find a place. Dinner was Cliff Cavin knowing all, I left. It is hard with so many people in the house. Time for us to make a decision. The neighbors are leaving for a few weeks, left us their house if we need an escape, they even see it..... Just gave my wife an anxiety depressor to calm her down, its that bad..... not a good place tonight.................... living with family............... and dad just sits in his chair like nothing is going on, Kids in their room, I am sure hearing all. I  may have said  few adjectives I should not have........... Just checked his account, has $500 until his SSI check comes in next month. Who is going to pay got his lobster roll and oysters on the half shell next week? Oh the life everyone lives... except me...... thought having the heart to heart with daughter would fix it but husband in just in for the ride. Time to a date on the calendar, its not about the money its about the time....
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You wrote a check, you have been conned!
In what way can one fix their credit?
Paying down the credit card only serves to make credit available to the married couple.
In what way, please explain, can a married woman buy a home without having them run her husband's credit? In a community property state, he would have to sign for the mortgage, imo.
On your side here....why did you write the check again?
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I see. And you expect this to change......why?

Leaving your daughter out of this (it's beyond the scope of this board), you don't seem to like your dad (he doesn't sound likeable).

So why did you agree to have him move in?

And why haven't you looked into other options?

You're alot like your daughter. You expect someone else to magically fix things.
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So dad is too broke to have his lobster and oysters he will have to do without, it's not like he will ever starve or be homeless while you have his back. Maybe having his credit/debit card declined when he is out with his buddies living above his means pretending to be a big man will be the wake up call he needs. His behaviour will never change, he is a user, why do you keep letting him use you?
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As far as the money, it is hers for her house down payment from her grandmother. I have held on to it otherwise she would have spent it (asked numerous times for it before and I held firm). Finally gave her a portion of it to get some things done (reality move). Hopefully she can get it moving, she is working with a mortgage broker and a real estate agent and narrowed down an area. (finally movement). Her husband ... I give up. As my wife said if we dont do it they will never move out. At least now she is on the track to get her own place.
So dad sits therein his chair and says to my wife that "there is hair in the bathroom that WE need to clean up, its not my color". Wow, glad I was not there, would have been ww3..... That was the beginning of the meltdown process.
Its hard, I have been trying to be the nice guy and help others, just tired of being run over.
As far as dad, looks like he will have to be hard up for cash this month because the ATM here is broken. I didn't have a choice in moving him in and he has no other options. Would be nice if he went to my sisters for a while but that won't happen.

Starting the clean out of my office today to redo the carpet and make more professional.

Thank you all for letting me vent.
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Do you have him on waiting lists for low income housing?
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tg - it is your choice is to have your dad there. It is not necessary to have him or support him. Other arrangements are possible.

Unfortunately that choice is a choice which is seriously affecting your wife's health and probably your own. You are choosing in favour of your ungrateful dad and against your wife. Be fully aware of that. Your choice is hurting your wife. Why do you stick with it? Your marriage vows/obligations  come before any obligation to your dad or anyone else. 
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Every single day!!! Don't be hard on yourself...this is way harder than raising children, demanding careers, and difficult spouses! I find I cry and break down at nothing! My mom is 86... I'm convinced that I'll never survive this...plus I'm ill and she's not...physically that is!
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I know, I made the commitment for dad, he has no money to live on his own, he barely makes his expenses now. He couldn't afford to live on his own even if it was rent free. Once the kids move out it will be a little better. Just have to get them out.
It seemed raising the kids was easier because like it or not it was our rules our way. If it were just my daughter it would be different. It is hard to yell at my father. Doesn't matter he wont do anything different anyway.
My attitude has to change. It is pretty sh*tty now on everything, Cleaned out the basement this AM, getting new carpet tomorrow, hopefully the new update will help soften the drab basement office.
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"My wife and I went out for 2 hours yesterday. Came home and it looked like we got ransacked. Drawers in the kitchen open, scissors left out, lights on all over the place. Hall closet doors wide open and dog gate away from the steps with his shirt hanging over it. It was like he just walked through and left everything open intentionally. I asked him about it and he was like "I don't remember that"...... It was within maybe an hour. I asked him what was was ding and he said he was looking for an item to give a friend of mine (he goes to church with) and I assume putting dog food away.... "then I got tired" (it was between 2 and 4 pm).
He has always been forgetful and left everything for mom to take care of. This was totally out of the norm. My wife and I are going away this weekend. We are boarding our dog as he wont pay attention to her. My wife is very worried as he has previously left the oven on and fallen asleep, left the doors unlocked in the house. While he lived on his own for 2 months He used to forget his dog was outside and it would be out all night walking all over his neighborhood or.
I know I am probably blowing this out of proportion but it does concern me. I am trying to get him to walk or get active but he wont. He does see Dr.s so that is good but what else do I look for?' Do I get surveillance tools for the house? It was hard for me to get over the guilt moving him in and my going out and I am just getting to the point where I get out with my wife more often but now it is a different list of worries. I try to let him alone and be responsible for himself as mom did it all. An I try to give him space as we like our space (for now it works). He has his own living area but we eat dinner together.
I work at home so I see him every day all day. Now what do I look for? He does his laundry, drives handles his bills (I watch over them). I know what dementia and Alzheimer is and can see when it starts (have 2 elderly friends who are in the middle of it now). Tiers has been a long time coming but what are early things to look for? Am I just being over concerned?"

TG: This is from a year ago; there are dozens of answers to this concern that you had about your dad's mental health. Every single person who responded said "get your dad an evaluation for dementia (you mention that it runs on his side of the family)

Have you done that yet?
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TG - not a darn thing will change in your situation with your dad, your daughter and SIL until YOU change. They are walking all over you and you are passive aggressive - bottling up until you blow, and then nothing changes.

Look at the circle with your dad: 1) he runs out of money 2) you vent about it 3) you give him money 4) he runs out of money again 5) you vent again 6) you give him money again. Not going to change until you say "no - am tapped out"

same with your lazy kids - you were frustrated no-one helped your wife with dishes. You tell them "my wife cooked - you two are responsible for dishes" since they know they should but are too darn lazy to do it.

You are not going to get out of this once dear daughter is on her own. If she cannot manage money now, she won't when she has her house, and we on the forum will be supporting you when you are venting because you have to help daughter who is behind on her mortgage so she won't lose her house - but you will blame your SIL for the issue.

You remind me of my sisters MIL - wonderful woman, two deadbeat sons in their 50's who clean her out of her social security and pension each month (not my BIL - his brothers) and who now, at 80, just took out a loan so she could pay the past due mortgage for one brother (he was in foreclosure) and pay back taxes and liens for the other. She says she does it for the grandkids. She knows she is being taken for a ride, but WON'T take the necessary steps to stop it, but vents about it.

look in the mirror - it starts with YOU. what are YOU willing to do to make changes. if you are not willing to do anything, we'll still sympathize with you until your wife decides to make the changes you won't (health wize - crisis or she will have had enough)

good luck
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This will be short, I'm so exhausted! I feel the same way don't feel alone. Hugs
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I am aware things need to change and start with me. Working on that. Doing less for everyone else and trying to put me and my wife first. Not worried what the others do but it is hard with everyone in the house and trying to live separate lives. Dad goes in for hernia surgery tomorrow, just found out he is staying overnight. Of course he is not telling me the whole story. I am sure my sister knows but then again she doesn't call me. I am sure I will find out after the fact. I will drop him off and talk to the doctors tomorrow. Tired of all the games though. I guess he is upset because I don't tell him everything I am doing to my house (like long overdue repairs or projects). its not his money it's not his house.
I finally got new carpeting in my office in the basement and spent a day cleaning it out, now trying not to bring half of it back in. 30+ years of other peoples dander, cats and dogs in the carpet so it was time. Now a newly refreshed office for me!
As far as getting him evaluated, I am not sure he is there yet, I am keeping an eye on things. He has 20 20 hearing as he comments on things we didn't think he could hear (selective hearing and I do not repeat myself with him). He remembers things but because he is lazy at times does not do what he should. Again mom did it all before and I am not., He can find things, he can find the ice cream I hide in the back of the freezer he didn't know we had, he can find cookies I hide (for my wife and I) way in the top of the pantry. He is like a little kid with all that stuff. He remembers to go out to lunch and dinner and to his meetings. He just likes to be pampered. He knows we are making dinner and it is minutes away but waits until he gets a personal invitation...... No, not a mental issue just an attitude. I am watching what he says and how he acts for things that are not normal. This is all his normal, been that way all my life that I know of.
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"Dad goes in for hernia surgery tomorrow, just found out he is staying overnight." What kind of recovery is this going to require? Are you going to be his nurse?

You won't kick your daughter and son-in-law out. Deadlines have come and gone, haven't they?

If you won't kick your father out (and I think you should), you might as well just accept him. He's not going to change, no matter what you say and do.

I suppose that even if your wife has a serious health crisis or moves out because she just can't take it anymore, your father will still be living with you. Remember, you have choices. And this is the life you have chosen.
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I sure hope Mrs. TG is up for Nursing duty. Hope all goes well, TG
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tg - this is just the beginning of the care your father will need. Have you and your wife discussed how you are going to manage in the years ahead as his care needs increase? You need to.
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TG; I just read a bit about hernia surgery on WebMD; three week recovery period.

Three weeks. And dad didn't discuss his increased care needs with you?

I have to say, this really sounds like decreased cognitive functioning, lack of executive functioning, narcissism, unrealistic expectations or something like that, to me.

You are keeping an eye on his ability to find ice cream in the freezer. But you aren't keeping an eye on his ability to plan ahead, see consequences. See, that's what dementia is about for the most part, decrease in those skills.

I'm sure you are quite tired of all of us saying the same thing, TG. But your dad needs a complete cognitive workup. Now. So that you and Mrs. TG can have a plan.
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Wow, three-week recovery period! What are your plans for that, TG?
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"No, not a mental issue just an attitude. I am watching what he says and how he acts for things that are not normal. This is all his normal, been that way all my life that I know of."

So, TG, I really hope that things go well with Dad's surgery. But in reference to the above quote from your last post, this is how dad has always been, we get that. It doesn't mean that it's "normal".

Most folks are NOT inconsiderate, lazy and/or narcissistic. Or immature. Or cognitively impaired.

Apparently your mom just "did" for dad, sounds like occasionally she exploded (the way you do, and the way your wife does) and then died before dad, possibly from a stress-related disorder?

Who is going to take care of dad if you die? I've often found that it's a useful question to ask myself, especially when a "Mom Emergency" would get in the way of a mammogram, cardiac or gyn appointment.
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On my way to pick up dad from the hospital. Just us and our daughter for dinner last night. It was so nice to have real conversation with our daughter. Will have both daughters this weekend.
Took dad in yesterday. He didn't want me to stay but if he coded on the gurney and I was not there like mom I would not want to take the heat for it. So I stayed, took all day... While getting him prepped, the doc came in. Weird conversation about the hernia (I have had 2 hernia surgeries so I know what to expect). Then the OR nurse comes in and talks about something else. Turns out it was something to repair a urination issue not a hernia. In some cases could be considered embarrassing. It is a medically necessary surgery. So I called him out on it very sternly, Yes I yelled at him in the room. "You need to tell me what is going on, I do have to know because I am ultimately responsible for you, no more BS from you, you either tell me or we need to make changes, I am not 10 years old anymore, you live with me. Between you and mom you never told me whats going on, well that is going to change right now"........... I am sure it is not the first time the staff have seen this but Hey, I am the guy who has to clean up the mess. Just like the last surgery, I play nursemaid.
So we will see how this one goes. He didn't tell my sister he was going in. She thought it being planned for late summer. Of course I called her to tell her it was just a hernia as he said but of course she takes his side and then goes on her own rampage of her life...... I am sure she knows what it is and thinks I am stupid. Blew a whole day out of the office yesterday.
Man I just want a level playing field.............
just tired of all the games...............
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Alternate interpretation of this story, from the point of view of someone who has a parent with dementia: Parent did not comprehend what kind of surgery was being proposed. Not an attitude but lack of cognitive and executive functioning skills.

But, TG, it's your dad and I'm sure you know know better.

I'm wondering if some alert hospital employee calls APS because you yelled at your obviously demented father.

I think I would get that cognitive evaluation to cover yourself. So that you can PROVE that your dad is "just" lazy
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TG, you really need to talk to his doctor about doing a cognitive evaluation on your dad. When a person has a difficult personality, and you're with them everyday, it's easy to miss the subtle changes. Best case - he's ok and just a difficult person. Worst case - he has cognitive challenges and you have to start coming up with a new game plan. In either case, you'll be better equipped to deal with the near future.  It's made a difference in how I interact with my mom, knowing it's cognitive decline mixed with narc behavior.  
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