I have become a mean person since being a caregiver. Does anyone else experience this?

So, you invite your dad into your adult home as a permanent non paying guest and he walks all over you and your wife, expects you to supply momey when he runs out and clean up after his dogs?

And you feel as though you can't saying anything to him about his behavior, because he's your dad.

Is he showing YOU or your wife any respect or consideration?

I think if you call up any we'll trained mental health professional and tell them that you ate having difficulties maintaining adult boundaries with your elderly parent, you'll find folks who will be able to help you. The important thing is that you feel comfortable with them.

Have you ever read a book called Boundaries? I can't recall the authors name. It might help you gain some perspective.

TG, just in case my point of view isn't explicit enough, I think that you are a nice guy who is getting walked all over. Not sure why. But....

1. Your dad needs an evaluation for dementia and mental illness. I don't care if "he was always like this". You need and deserve to know if you are dealing with a progressive condition, a personality disorder or something that might be treatable or at least able to be ameliorated with meds.

2. You need, for the sake of your wife, to learn to tell your father what he may and may not do in YOUR home. That room is for you and your wife. Not him. Just as a starting place. You sit down with dad and say "dad, DW has been having some health issues lately; the doctors say she needs a quiet place to sit, away from everyone, even you. Please respect the fact that this is HER room". It doesn't have to be mean; just firm.

tg, our generation was brought up that the parents are always right, we must defer to them and accede to their wishes. As adults in caregiving positions, we have trouble because this programming flies in the face of reality. I'd be willing to bet that the most demanding parent is also the son or daughter who never did the caregiving for their parents, grandparents. When we say no, we can't/won't do that, they still see us a back talking teenagers. But we are adults with our own responsibilities and we can call them on their behavior as it relates to us or our kids. I'm not saying yell at him, but stop walking on eggshells. How would you handle these things from house guests who weren't related? Please know that you'll have to set these boundaries with him at some point - trust me, you really don't want to start when he's in his 80's, has health issues and is really unhappy with life (and you). I did that and boy, do I wish we'd drawn those boundaries decades earlier. You don't have to be mean...just firm, definite, declarative.

Yes I have read Boundaries. As far a egg shells trying not to walk on them. Yesterday had carpet guy come in to redo my office in the basement and I am setting up french doors to give me a little privacy (from the dogs and noise). YEA! Spend the money on my place vs rent.
I went on an EMS call clase to home yesterday. A 60 YO guy fell off his lawn tractor. Thought he had a head injury. Turns out he was in AA and fell off the wagon apparently very literal! Looking at him hit me with the issue I am dealing with here with an alcoholic. "Is this what I have to look forward to?" Sunday I ran a call next street over an an 80 woman fell. Living with her kids, not much of an injury but just like my dad. "Is that what I have to look forward to." So now it is hitting my outside interest with what is going on at home. I have seen a lot in my career and now it starts to hit home. Not the gruesome calls I've seen it's the little calls.
I reached out to a friend who is a psychologist in my service who does this for a living so I am sure he will understand. With my business I have access to some assistance as well so reaching out to them. Its not a big deal it is just the little things that are building.
Like last night the SIL parks his huge shoes right by the door in my wife's new sun room. I told him, "this is not the new entry and mud room, My shoes are in the mudroom like everyone else." That is what bugs me, no one cares. We try to keep a nice house for us, not really liking anyone trashing my place. Your a slob go live in your own place. Yeah, I am a terrible person.......

"Your a slob go live in your own place"
Exactly! There is nothing wrong with reminding him/them that they are GUESTS in YOUR HOME not paying tenants.

I am incredulous at the level of inconsiderateness displayed by your father and your son in law. Apparently you cannot ask either of them nicely for anything. You are not the terrible person - each of them is. I think it is awful that your father thinks he's king of your castle. And I think your son in law is a looser. Lay down the law. Put a DO NOT ENTER sign on your wife's room. And these are not little things - they are a pattern of disrespect.

I am working on that. Made it clear it is her room...... will see how long it lasts. I am just trying to keep my sanity. Everyone gets to live like they are in a guest house and only have to do their own wash.... Life is good for them.. Trust me, if I ask them to do something by the time it gets done and I have to fix it I might as well do it myself in the first place. Kind of like rewashing pots and pas after they use them....
Working on me right now and no one else.

tg, are there doors to the sunroom that you can lock?

Curious who is telling you that you are a terrible person for wanting your home to yourself. Or of this is a pattern of behavior in your childhood home.

Curious which adult in your life "made nice" a lot and then blew up at you. You seem to have learned that behavior from someone.

Just wondering if you mused on that, you might be able to re-think how to react to frustrations.

Not going to tell you that insight is going to change your behavior.

But for some of us, knowing that it's a learned pattern helps is to be able to unlearn it more easily.

Tg,
Take a close look at your floor plan to see if the house can be divided into a suite for you and your wife only. Now, take the master bedroom, bath, sunroom, and whatever else. Next, stand there in that hallway leading out, and picture where you will be putting that locked entry door-professionally installed. Yes! Smack dab in the hallway-can be uninstalled later.
Did you say there is a guest area for Dad with a t.v. room? Hmmmmm. Open that area up.
Give each "guest" a room, a room only. Have Sil, daughter, and Dad share the same spaces, and the same bathroom.

With this plan, someone will be uncomfortable and move out shortly.

Do you have family meetings?

And finally, get your blood pressure checked every week for awhile.

Yes there are, we do use the room to access the pool area and to let the dogs out so its not totally off limits. But no one used the doors as entry when it was just the deck. The SIL goes out to the deck to smoke... again which bugs me but.... as long as I don't find more butts in my yard and smell the cigarettes... As long as I keep complaining maybe they will listen...

I don't get it. I am confused.
Is the sun room your wide's room, or NOT?
You said:
", we do use the room to access the pool area and to let the dogs out so its not totally off limits. But no one used the doors as entry when it was just the deck."

In what way is this your wife's room? And Sil is smoking out there?
No, no, no no.

I just don't get it.

tg, so the room is used by all as access to the backyard - is there another access to the yard that the others can use? What I'm thinking is that with people like this, the boundaries need to be black or white, with no grey area. You make one exception and you're done. You'll have better odds with no one in that room ever for any reason.

I'm with you, Sendhelp, I too just do not understand. I doubt very much that that room is the only way to get to the deck or the pool. And wow, they have a deck and a pool! This is sounding like an all-inclusive resort or B&B that allows dogs. I'm actually laughing out loud because this situation keeps getting more ludicrous. Does anyone actually believe that his father or son in law is incapable of walking around the house to get to the deck or the pool or to have a cigarette??? Does anyone else feel that these complaints belong on the whine thread?

I rather feel for TG. It's the invasion of space, back again after you've been an empty nester and got used to things staying clean and tidy once you've cleaned and tidied them, and then suddenly that doesn't happen any more, again.

I love having my daughters to stay, it doesn't happen often enough. But whereas God only knows with only one child of three being a tidy sort, and no neat freak myself, and two dogs and a cat, my old home quite often looked like we'd been burgled by hungry criminals who'd made themselves a few snacks, argued about which video to watch, had a shower and changed their clothes while they were at it and I never even used to notice it...

Well now, they're in the house for two minutes and instantly I find myself putting books back on the shelves, neurotically mopping the Marmite puddles off the kitchen worktops and straightening stray pairs of shoes. Not to mention Daughter 1's tradition of always peeling satsumas in one go so that the empty skin sits on the counter looking like a little orange phallus complete with dangly bits...*

Aww, it's so good to have them home.

TG, this too will pass - but those kids really do need to get themselves launched: "do not handicap your children by making their lives easy" as Robert Heinlein so wisely observed. And you knew how Dad was going to be. Vent away, though, because what really won't do you any good is keeping the frustrations to yourself.

* She claims it's an elephant's head, with a trunk and two ears. H'mmm.

It feels more like a huge hill, with a tiny snake poking out the back.......
no wait.....
It's alive,
the hill is alive,
but the snake is wiggling now.

The son in law is actually working? But it doesn't count?

Irritability is a symptom of depression.

I wish that TG would go to his PCP and get a referral to a psychiatrist.

He doesn't wish to take more pills. He says "too many already".

But here's the thing. Treating the underlying depression often makes the other symptoms disappear. When we started treated my mother's depression and anxiety, her BP was able to be managed with one medication, not the three she'd been on for the previous 10 years.

But TG has to take the first step here.

TG is using this forum to vent, release anger, get advice and understanding because so many of us have had family boundary issues. TG reminds me of my sister's wonderful MIL - she is 80, still working (literacy tutor) 30 hours per week. One son lives with her, and she has a second son (not my BIL) that mooches off her along with live in son. She cleans up after live in son and grandkids when he has them, and gives both of them her entire social security and pension paychecks monthly ($3-4,000) and lives off her tutoring. She is angry about the situation, feels like her home is invaded, angry that both sons constantly ask for money (they claim grandkids need it so she can't say no), and angry at herself that she can't kick the one out or shut off the tap to both. She KNOWS what she needs to do, she CANNOT BRING HERSELF to do it.

I mention this because i think TG is in the same situation. If he can't/won't take our advice i'm glad we can at least be a place for the poor guy to vent his stress and have an audience who understands him. Maybe we help him lower his BP and be kinder and more patient with the team of deadbeats in his house (dad, daughter, son in law). So TG - we're here, we'll support you, but all of us are secretly praying for a happy ending - dad on his own, kids out on their own, you and your wife enjoying umbrella drinks by the pool and lazily planning what to do for dinner.

Kimber166, thank you for understanding. For one, i am not a huge fan of counselors (had some while I was a kid, due to family drug and other issues). Had up and down with marriage counselors, last one was perfect helps us greatly and we helped ourselves.
I bring most of the stress on myself. I allowed them here so I have no one to blame. I am trying to help them by showing them what they need to do. It is just frustrating, some days are OK, others not so good. I do listen to the advice and try to integrate the ways I can to work these situations out. Some pieces of advice just wont work (like moving dad out), that is just not going to happen. I have to learn to live with him and he will have to adjust to our way of living (not so sure that will happen). I have to keep things in perspective, there is a lot worse out there. My issues are me dealing with what is here.
The kids on the other hand have to move out for me and them. Just trying to get them to do it is another story.
Dad tells me last night he has to have hernia surgery....... "Oh" I said... "when is this?". "The 23rd, I need a ride to the hospital"... then he walks out of the room..... so really? I need to drop everything? Not like are you busy that day? Will you be around are you on the road that day? Nope, I need a ride...... to and from.... There goes my whole day. I don't mind doing it but hey don't just tell me I have to do this...... Like I would just drop him off.... It is just there is no consideration.
Kids go to Florida Monday, apparently his parents are paying for the trip.... again must be nice, live rent free, free trip..... life is good........ dog sitter.......
VENTING!

I don't really feel like I have grounds to complain as you all have either been living with your parent or they living with you. But I work full time and have been running back and forth from my house and my job and my dads house because my brother only goes maybe 2 times a month. In the last 2 weeks I will have been at my dads 7 times. I threw my back out a couple weeks ago and just started sobbing and said enough. It was time for me to set boundaries and take a hard look at my limitations. That's when I called Senior Helpers. We are working someone in 3 days a week right now so dad can stay at home (which he says he wants), I can keep my sanity and my job and hopefully continue to help my 3 kids successfully graduate from college. Maybe you all can reach out to an agency to give you a break ,, even if its only 3 - 6 hours a week. Senior helpers minimum is 3 hours. we will be using them 9 ,, and as Time goes on It will have to increase,, but these last couple months dad has really gone down hill. its all I can do. Im sure I will regret not being able to be there more ,, but if my husband hadn't passed as well as my mom I could be there more for him. Im angry that my brother isn't stepping up more,, but I have to let go of my expectations of what I think he should do and do what I can.

tg, vent away. Most of us with difficult family relationships have few flesh and blood people we can vent to, and the few we have get tired of it.

Anyhow, the immediate issue is getting the kids into their own abode. So...while they're in FLA, scope out a few nice apartment complexes in the area that allow pets. Get the info on price and availability. Then when the kids return, you and Mrs. T sit down with them (both of you so you present a united front) and tell them that you all need to discuss the current living situation. This comes down to a simple matter - you agreed to let them stay with you for a short term while they transitioned to the area and secured fulltime employment. As you all know, living together has been a challenge and now that they have fulltime jobs, it's time for them to take the next step. You and Mrs. T will cover first and last months rent up to $x for an apartment for them. You've looked at some apartments in the area and have some info for them - all have availability starting July 1. State this kindly and calmly, but firmly .... body language, tone and words need to convey that the only thing up for discussion is which apartment complex they move into. Once the kids are out, you'll be better able to address issues with Dad. Right now, you're being double teamed by them.

I can't real answer the question but I wanted to share with you that I do not like the person I have become b/c of caregiving. My husband is in my space, wants attention, wants me to do everything for him and gets very offended when I 'raise my voice'---well, I have explained it in every way I know how or I am at my wits end and pushed for time and am trying mightily to get it all done...sorry I offended you b/c I got louder but I need a release and this is how it exhibits itself. There doesn't seem to be any good way out and so I trudge through. When I told my doctor I felt like I had an elephant on my chest, he actually told me lots of caregivers feel that way and then patted my shoulder and told me to take care of myself........everything says that but doing that is almost an impossibility. All I can offer you is the understanding of the situation so that you know that your feelings are justified. I am not designed to take all this on---some people embrace the role but it is not in my makeup. I have decided not to feel guilty and just do the best I can......even with that mindset, most of the time it sucks.

Venting helps caregivers so they don't go off the deep end.
Then, it can help change a person's thinking to a more positive outlook maybe, over a period of time.

Then, even when there are setbacks, some solutions that you have tried and that have worked for you, may help another caregiver.

You have come alongside of your son-in-law and helped by decreasing your drinking to help him decrease his, by example. That was a major good thing!

Then, I read your daughter wants to stop you from interferring in their lives.
I don't know if one issue is related to the other. It may be too personal for you to share.

However, you need to feel better about the time you offered to this younger man, what you did for him, and if the outcome was not what you expected, give yourself kudos just for reaching out to him. Keep up the good heart.

If you decided to stop focusing on them being gone (for just one month even), maybe that would take some pressure off of you.  The reason is, this slight change will allow you a different perspective.  The next mistake anyone makes won't have your blood pressure soaring to it's previous level, as your thoughts jump to a loud "You are out of here!"

Instead, you can tell yourself:

"Gee, now that they are in FLA, I kinda miss the bloke, having someone to share the lawn work with was kinda nice".  "I am going to save it for when he gets back-we'll do it together then".

"Wow, with the kids off on vacation, I have trained all the dogs to do just what I want, and there have been no accidents, especially after installing that dogggy door!"

etc. etc. etc.  (  Tg, you are laughing now, right?)

You & your wife meet daughter and SIL's every worldly need, then his parents treat them to a vacation? Game on.

While the "kids" are in Florida, pack all their sh*t and put it in a storage unit (30-day rental).

When daughter and SIL return from FL, tell them you paid one month's rent on the storage unit. Then guide their dogs into their vehicle and send them to SIL's parents' house.

If Day 31 rolls around and these two adults haven't unloaded THEIR crap into THEIR own place, they have 2 options: get their own contract for the storage rental (oh, and pay it) or play possum and the storage company changes the lock and keeps their possessions.

You once said they "can't" stay at his parents' house because of some "issues." Whatever. Probably an exaggeration because they like your food better.

It's time for you to play the "issues" card. Your wife's health is fragile and your father is showing signs of dementia. Your home is no longer suitable for 2 hangers-on who create stress and contribute nothing.

And....are SIL's parents really footing the whole bill for this vacation? Airfare and lodging, OK. But do you honestly believe that the in-laws are paying for every breakfast, lunch and dinner those 2 eat?.....Their umbrella/jet ski/kayak rentals? (or is the happy family being fleeced at Disney?)....SIL's hefty bar tab?  Doubtful.

More likely, those 2 are blowing the money that they claim they are saving to get back on their feet.

They are taking you for a ride, TG. Yes, they. Daughter is fully complicit. She pulls your strings by playing "good cop" to SIL's "bad cop." Thanks to this well-rehearsed routine, you made daughter the #1 woman in your life. No wonder your wife is on the verge of a stroke.

For the love of God, TG, don't p*ss away this week doing home projects and cooking dinner for dad.

Order the storage unit, order a pizza and start packing boxes.

NOW. Get busy! Time's-a-wasting!

I've taken to hiding in my room, locking the door and bolting it shut. She beats on it with her fists and yells obscenities She is now in a psycho ward two hours from here and I visited her yesterday. They say her brain is literally falling apart by the hour, that she has at most another two years. The doctor tells me he can put together a medication schedule so I can take her home maybe next week. I am happy to do that if she is docile here in the house. She does after all belong here in her house, in our home, where she can go out into her garden and watch the sun rise and hear the birds. I am here for her. The doctor said I should hire a nurse to come to the house to give her injections that calm her down so she will take her medication. This is where she belongs and I still belong to her forever.

BlackHole has a wonderful idea. Too bad it won't be acted upon.

Years ago, I was a telephone crisis worker. There was a type of caller that was described as "poor me, ain't it awful, yes but." I think this describes you, tg. You aren't really going to ever change anything, are you?

If anything changes, it will be when your wife has a stroke or other major health crisis. Even then, maybe nothing will change, and you will tell us that you are so stressed out by your wife's health that you can't make other changes at that time.

We can see the future...can you?

TG, Google a website called Out of the FOG and particularly read the section on Boundaries.

If this is all about venting, go for it. I think I've said my piece. Good luck, TG!!

Oh I am fully aware of the issues. I keep doing what I have to for me and my wife. Last night my daughter and wife went to a show. It was dad, SIL and me. I'm thinking a normal dinner right? I grilled some steak tips put dinner altogether, made the dinner call and they came running. Tried some conversation but dad turns into "Cliff Clavin" topping any story. So They cleaned up while I sat, then I had a cigar and relaxed. Not fully what I wanted but close. SIL was upset at me for giving his dog commands at my dinner table when he was acting up. "too many people training my dog"... "then train your dog"... oh that is right I spend more time with your dog then you do....
it's just hard not having privacy. The kids have a storage unit. What the SIL does with is money I do not know, he does not share with his wife. I have given both of them strategy on finances but what do I know. So before they go on vacation the words to my daughter is start looking when you get back. Time is up, you need to go. I love you but you need to go get your own place. I have told her that last week and she agreed but SIL was not there to hear it. I need my house back. Right now I had to put their dog to bed so I can get my work done... "Dog barking in my ear for an hour".......
Tired, just tired.... Checking some sites to help relax....... travel sites maybe?
Anyway to all the mothers out there Happy Mothers day! Taking my wife out to get flowers for her garden (her favorite thing to do on Mothers Day).

Thanks Barb, checking out the website out of the Fog

Heh, heh, heh, Barb, I just heard that website crashed due to all the traffic you just sent over there!
Tg, maybe you just cannot win?

Seen, read, and acknowledged that Sil undermines you.
Rude, who does that, in your kitchen, with their dog, and you should be quiet about it? Of course you should give the dog commands, imo.
Are these adults (Sil &daughter) millennial? Send them to Disneyworld, please, that's all they know. Sorry to the millennials. Whatever must be the problem? No one is working from the same moral standards. Or is on drugs.

BTW, Did you offer Dad and Sil a cigar?  Why?