Helping my aunt who is subject of financial abuse. Why is she mad at me?

Now you can identify with Jim Cantore, the weatherman. When he arrived in Virginia Beach just prior to a Hurricane, my sister called him "The Angel of Death". In Shakespearean times this was known as "Shooting the Messenger". It does not change the outcome.

If you aunt is in fact competent you can call an Elder Law Attorney and help your aunt rescind the POA for Kathy. If your aunt is if sound mind she does not need a guardian only a responsible POA. A Certified Elder Law Attorney (CELA) can help her. The nursing home can not evict your aunt. I work for a company that acts as POA and as a Guardian. A new Durable POA with a professional POA will serve the same purpose as a guardian if your aunt is competent and it does not take away your aunts ability to make decisions. So often in cases of abuse a guardian is appointed but when clients are able to decide I prefer them to have the ability to influence the outcome for themselves. A good guardian or POA includes the client in the process if they are able to be included. I will say prayers that you find the correct support. If you were local to me or in PA I could offer more specific resources. Your best bet is to start with a Certified Elder Law attorney.

I agree with everything Ikor said, and would add that it's common for victims of elder exploitation to be embarrassed, and want to put the episode behind them. They realize they have been had, and fear they might lose their independence and ability to make their own decisions as a result.

You ask why your aunt is mad at you, try to remember that it is much easier to show anger and frustration toward the people who love you, because they're always going to love you, no mater what. You're the closest to her and will never leave her, so you get the brunt of the negativity. Also, she may be afraid to stand up to her "care? giver",. Who knows what other manipulations "Kathy" has been employing while no one was looking. Just keep loving your aunt, knowing that your heart is in the right place and your actions are backing that up.

If your aunt is not incompetent how did Kathy manage to get her declared incompetent? From most of the posters on here it seems to be the hardest thing in the world even if they have clear evidence. you have done all you can just await the outcome. Kathy should be wearing a designer jumpsuit before too long. Won't stop your aunt being mad at you I am afraid. blessings

You might want.to read my answer to the 50ish year old daughter who is concerned about her father's spending too much money on prostitutes. Potential care takers and family members, such as you, should be concerned about money! I can think of two possible reasons your aunt's anger toward you. She doesn't want to be told how to run her life (loss of independence and control) or she might be frightened of Kathy. She can be arrested for elder abuse, and who knows what she has said to your aunt...or even threatened her to keep herself out of trouble? For whatever reason your aunt is angry with you, you don't really know what is going on when they are alone. I think you were right to intervene. The idea of finding a lawyer who specializes in elder care is an excellent one. Be sure to involve your aunt when her situation is being discussed. Good luck, and don't give up.

It is obvious this woman Kathy is an out and out crook but I repeat the question- how was your aunt declared incompetent? That is not an easy process, it requires doctor's letters and often a legal procedure. I would definitely see an attorney or legal aid as well as law enforcement. If doctors examined her and found her incompetent then she does need a legal guardian. Her anger is a sign of helplessness and if she does have dementia, that is a symptom to lash out. I went through years of helping my parents and being accused of being the bad guy- it seems like no good deed goes unpunished and it is very painful. Sometimes you have to get beyond that and not be a martyr- but do the right thing and at least make sure your aunt is taken care of for the short time she has left.

Thanks, all. I have seen an elderlaw attorney who will be at the probate hearing. I decided not to pursue guardianship myself as I also have an aging mother with Alzheimer's who is 4 hours away. I know I can help my aunt in many ways without taking on the financial duties. You are all right; she may have threatened my aunt I wouldn't put anything past her. I saw Kathy kicking her dog (to get it out of the way when I came to the door) so I know I'm dealing with a baaaddd person.
I am going to bring my sister along to probate so my aunt can see it's "the family" who is on her side. Yes, I bet she is embarrassed and resigned to it.

Hi, Well, I would guess your Aunt does have some cognative issues, and If Kathy was around her more than you, saw, and went forward. ? Do you live near your Aunt, and how often did you see her? You know getting her claimed incompetent is not easy,I do not know what state you live in, yet, I would call and elder care attorney and get some advise, as well as the ( Area On Aging ).
If not you state,than a national line. They are ablle guide you.

Kathy may just be doing all she can until you take over. Find all docments, if any your Aunt signed, and find out all you can. As I said she may be just robbing her blind, and get away with it. I care for my mother, and knew before anyone she had Alzhemer's. This is a a long journey, and many who are not around all the time are unaware of the signs.

Be Carefull, and Work Hard With ALL OF THE RECOURCES OUT THERE.!!!

Sir Humphrey Appleby, the archetypal civil servant, points out that what outrages the public is not that abuses take place, it's being told about them. It's like the builder who discovers dry rot, the "friend" who identifies the honey fungus in your garden, the politician who explains that services have to be paid for… these are not popular figures.

Your aunt had suspicions, probably had had them for a long time but preferred to put up with being taken advantage of to dealing with this very difficult problem. Then, in an unguarded moment, she confides in you. And now look! - a problem that she had successfully ignored for goodness knows how long is one huge mess, with all kinds of fuss and bother going on, and who's in the middle of it? Yup, you.

Your aunt will be upset and flustered until everything gets sorted. Kathy, frankly, shouldn't be allowed in the building and, if you can, see if APS will get her barred unless and until she is cleared of suspicion. Your only immediate problem is the staff's attitude; but bearing in mind that your aunt is their proper concern, and they don't know you, and there is a cloud of mismanagement hanging around and how are they to know whom to trust? - you should try not to feel offended at their snottiness towards you. They're wrong, but they don't know that yet. Be patient, be open, give it time, they'll come round.

If the financial trail is as clear as you describe, Kathy's POA isn't worth the paper it's written on - I don't know what the laws are in your neck of the woods, but it sounds as if she's a very good candidate for criminal prosecution. Then, presumably, your aunt will be put through a guardianship process; and, again presumably, you will be free to make applications to become her guardian if you wish. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a stick. I think you'd be begging for trouble.

But anyway, that is all hypothetical pending the investigation. Meanwhile, reassure your aunt that she is doing a public-spirited thing by being truthful and responsible in reporting Kathy's behaviour - what if Kathy were doing this to other people, people less able than your aunt to "stand up for themselves"? (and try to keep a straight face). Commiserate with her disappointment in a person she had trusted, but be very clear with her about the misappropriations and the criminality of what Kathy got up to. Kathy was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and your aunt has bravely set the dogs on her. Go auntie!!! I hope she might buy this line - let us know how it's going, best of luck.

First, be very careful about opening mail which is not addressed to you! That is a federal offense and you can get in serious trouble. Second, let the police and APS do their jobs. So what if your aunt if mad with you? She has dementia and believes a reality only known to her, but not the "real" truth. Good for you for advocating for her and telling authorities about the abuse from Kathy. The best thing that can happen is for the court to appoint a guardian. They will not place your aunt in a dump and at 90 she hasn't long to live anyway since dementia is a terminal illness. Again, let the authorities do their jobs, you know what is happening and write your aunt a note (if she can still read) and just tell her you love her and want her safe. That's all you need to say. Don't try to argue with a person with dementia. You will lose. Thanks for trying to help her!

It's it common for a non-relative to get control and relatives not even notified?...this is scary!

Perhaps she was in her mind 'venting' and that did it for her. For you, it was a call to action and you did the right thing. I have very lengthy examples of what we went through with my now deceased mother in law regarding this type of thing (with my husband's only sibling, who bullied her a lot and would emotionally punish her if he did not get his way). Every time she would tell us she wanted something done about something, we would ask her if she wanted us to more or less take it to the mat and she would say she did. As soon as we did, he'd go ballistic and she's tell us everything was fine. She didn't so much get mad at my husband, but it put my husband through untold misery to hear how unhappy and at times we felt, emotionally abused, with nothing left for him to do about it. She did not have dementia. We came to the conclusion that 'there are no victims, just volunteers' and would listen and let it go. It was very hard but the other way netted her nothing at all, made my husband sleepless worrying about his mother and consumed our daily lives. We had to let it go. Elderly people have so little 'control' and I think sometimes when something is said, that's all they really want to do. As you say, she is mad at you for being the 'whistle blower' and now she fears the unknown and what will happen next. You have her best interest at heart. Perhaps you should hold her hand and tell her you'd do anything to help her and if you overstepped boundaries in her mind, it was only because you care and she TOLD YOU something was wrong. If in the future, say to her, you only want me to just listen and don't want me to act, I need to know that. We also told my MIL that we could only hear so much about this stuff without wanting to fix the situation so if she didn't want us to do that, just please know we could not constantly listen to these complaints. Caretakers have their emotional limits too.

reneeh63 - Yes it is very common and very scary.
The elderly are vulnerable. In good faith they hire someone to help them and those people turn out to be criminals.
These criminals use all the devious means at their disposal to gain control over the life of the vulnerable elder.
That is why laws were enacted to safeguard the elderly. Unfortunately those same laws are now being used by the criminals to separate the elders from their families and those who truly love and care for them. It is a real mess and we all must be aware of it.

Goodness, Frustrated, have you got the right name! How infuriating that must have been, the situation with your MIL.

Mind you, what a "s aitch 1 tee" your BIL sounds. And isn't that the rub? It really goes against the grain to let such people get away with it. I think we can draw parallels with all kinds of situations where the victim is too afraid - often, irrationally, disproportionately afraid - of the abuser even to allow others to tackle the problem. I suppose the best you can do where that's happening is what Chemkrd has effectively done: call in an authoritative, objective investigator and step back.

reenah63, a person who is not diagnosed as having dementia can appoint anyone they want to be POA, relative or not. Some family dynamics are such that the last person in the world you want in your business would be family! While I agree that opening a person's mail is a federal offense, I would find that to not be even touched in a situation such as this. It is also against the law to break down someone's door but I would do that too if I thought someone was being molested or injured inside and that was the only way to get in. Glad the police are taking this seriously and looking into it. When I read Chemkrd's post regarding what is likely to happen - that her aunt as a result of non payment will end up in a very bad place as a result of non payment - probably that plays into what the aunt is upset about. She is transferring any anger that she should be feeling for the person who put her in this situation - "Kathy" - and really first, herself for appointing "Kathy" as POA to her niece. What comes to mind right now is the whole Ray Rice elevator knock out (of his then fiancé, now wife). He hit her and knocked her out, the recording reveals what HE did, and now she is mad at the entity (NFL) who has banned him from playing football. Is she mad at Ray Rice? Nope! She called it a difficult time in 'their lives' and now the big mean NFL is depriving them of future income and bringing up a sore subject. See! Don't have to be old with dementia to think this way.

Bond with your aunt immediately. Let her know that she was right about Kathy all along. That you are concerned about her situation. Let her know your findings on her situation. She is in trouble because of Kathy's doing. Report Kathy abusive conduct to her boss "immediately": documentation/.? Report your findings with her to her home mortgage broker immediately. The sooner Kathy is in jail the better in my opinion. God plez help her and her aunt with this ordeal now. :( hummm... good luck "we are rootn for you" :)

Yes, I am putting my trust in "the system" to help my aunt. I talked to a cousin and a couple of her friends who all confirmed the belief (along with the facts) that Kathy has been doing this for years - overcharging her, writing herself checks, etc. And lately trying to isolate her: throws away her personal mail and phone numbers, won't bring her cell phone or address books and to top it all off she
denounced a longtime friend (a Catholic deacon) saying that he was taking advantage of her! So she can no longer see him.
I guess the best defense is a good offense, right?
Over the years she has refused to turn in other people who were stealing from her; I had my hand on the phone and she begged me not to. She is way too trusting and forgiving; a truly wonderful person who is very vulnerable.
The "incompetence" was just an assessment done at the nursing home. I don't think it's the case although she is NOT making good decisions right now.

Elder Abuse lawyer NOW!

The sooner you start putting a stop to it the better. I'm am currently dealing with a simular situation but now both my parents are gone. The new will, said it was to be left to the grandchildren, but a relative came in & took it all by abusing their POA. Now it's even harder to fight.

Must follow this site. Thanks

She is in a scared victimized state of mind possibly? You and your family needs to get through to her on her situation in my opinion? There should never be forgiveness
when it comes to what damages Kathy has done in my opinion? Always keep her involved in her situations? Or you/.. won't be any different than "Kathy" it seems?

Actually I would LOVE to see Kathy in jail but the police detective was not optimistic about criminal charges. Maybe civil charges, but then I am investing money and time into pursuing this "waste of good oxygen". I think if the news about the incident gets into the local paper she will be unable to do this again.

Does anyone have experience with the legal system for elder abuse? The county we're in takes it very very seriously as this is a very poor area and the elderly are a popular target. There is a special police unit for elder abuse and 2 detectives that work exclusively on it.

That being said, there are bank statements showing she paid her son's mortgage (my aunt's house is paid off), property taxes on a vacation home and all sorts of personal expenses from my aunt's account. Maybe not even a dime on my aunt, who says, "oh, I owe her a lot. I TOLD her she could borrow some money! She has thrown her lot in with Kathy and it is going to be hard to get her to understand how bad it has gotten.
Thanks for all the input; it definitely helps to not feel alone. Whistle blowers are often treated badly, that is a fact.

Chemkrd, if you don't like the idea of getting tangled in a legal web, how about asking a nice friendly accountant to do your aunt a comprehensive balance sheet? It would make everything crystal clear, and that might make pursuing it more attractive for the police. I suppose that would depend on your knowing a nice friendly accountant, of course :/

It would also enable you to say to your aunt "did you tell her she could borrow this much?"

Another thing that didn't occur to me 'til later is how foolish your aunt must feel. Listening to programmes about boiler room scams, a recurring theme is that people keep feeding them, and hate going to the police about them, because they feel so ashamed of having been taken in. The angrier you are with Kathy, rather than exasperated with your aunt, the easier it will be for her to stop feeling she was complicit in being defrauded and stop defending her abuser.

Unless, of course, Kathy can show you this 'permission' in writing. No? Didn't think so...

I am reading all these stories and am appalled. How could Kathy and others like her sleep at night? Unconscionable.

Maybe the dog is a hostage. Maybe your aunt is afraid Kathy will abuse the dog. I would ask the aunt if she would like you to take the dog for awhile because your child loves it or whatever. Once she can be sure the dog is safe with you (take the dog to visit her), see if your aunt feels more confident in defending herself. The elderly can be so vulnerable -- there was a story in a local newspaper about a caretaker whose boyfriend was a gangmember. A bunch of them actually moved in and lived off the elderly person for years. The misery of all this was finally resolved when a neighbor called an elder abuse hotline and a social worker called police. Talk about a life-threatening situation.

Hi Chemkrd; first, bless you for helping your aunt and not being afraid to walk into this nightmare and advocate for her. You are brave and obviously have a big heart. You do seem to be in a "kill the messenger" dilemma, but I do encourage you to be aware of how you discuss these things with your aunt. No doubt she is embarrassed and scared just as everyone here has pointed out. However, being sure to soften your words and use your approach to be as gentle as possible, non-accusatory (for being so blind), nonjudgmental, and be factual as possible. The message is the same but the delivery tactic can be modified if that is where you are getting the most push back from your aunt. Good luck to you; she is lucky to have you watching out for her.

I don't think the dog is in danger (obviously by my picture I care about dogs!) She was obviously very startled and aggravated to see me at her door. She has a husband who seems reasonable and I hope that this gentle creature (an older dog) is safe. Sorry, I can't take the dog on too. And my aunt has NEVER been to the house.

The dog looks wonderful in the picture. :) Obviously it is an important part of your aunt's life. Anyone who has a pet can relate. Since Kathy has been "found out" and has a lot of reasons to be angry, I think some of us are concerned by what treatment or threat (to her and to the dog) she might be using to keep your aunt on her side. I think you have received some very good advice here. Your first step, after following the legal advice and getting Kathy out of the picture, should be to establish a loving and trusting relationship with your aunt. As others have said, she is probably confused, embarrassed, and fearful of what might happen to her without Kathy. That is Kathy ' s leverage. You are certainly a wonderful person and caring niece to be involved in stopping her abuse and helping her to be safe in the future. Kathy is angry and worried, too, with good reasons. That is where the immediate concern for your aunt and the dog is coming from...at least from me. Use your own judgment, along with the support and advice you have received here, and I am confident that you will take appropriate actions and bond with your aunt. As you can see, you have a lot of us caring about her...and you!

Chemkrd: I had a dog that looked a lot like the one in that picture. God, I really loved him.

I do not understand all the reasons people don't want to prosecute abusers, but the reality is that when you choose not prosecute, you choose to let other people get hurt. "Aunt, I love you and I want the best for you, and if Kathy goes on spending your money inappropriately, you won't have enough for your good care. And if you don't have good care I will feel very, very sad. And (if she has children and your state has filial responsbility laws) your kids oculd be on the hook for it, too! And...once she drains you dry, she will go on to do exactly the same thing to someone else. Please, please, tell the detectives the truth about Kathy - even if she gave you some good companionship and care, she has done very wrong things, and if you cover up for her you are helping her hurt people. If you are afraid of her we will be able to keep her away and keep you safe. Please please tell me anything else that isn;t right or anything else you are afraid will happen if she is arrested for what she has done to you "(or, better still, "to us").