My 88 yr old Aunt has dementia. She controls her checkbook and bank card. I attempted many times to take control of her checkbook and card but, she refuses.Attempting to ask to be in control as her DPOA just causes relationship issues between the two of us. I stopped attempting because, it just causes problems that I don't need.I have enough problems taking care of her then asking for more.
Anyway,
I will try to explain the best I can,
My Aunt don't go anywhere. She stays home all the time. When ever she needs grocerys or spending money I'm the feller. When she wants spending money. She makes out a check for cash and has me take the check to the bank to cash it for her. As her DPOA I make sure she writes the checks out and signs them to be cashed.I sign the back as John Doe POA example. After I cash and give her her spending money example $300. She some how loses her money or misplaces it or maybe hides it I don't know. I could get her $300 today and tomarrow she loses it. With her dementia causes her to forget I even went to the bank for her.She is very demanding and she accuses at most times.
When it comes to her grocery shopping for her,
Some how she never has cash to give me for grocerys. So, she gives me her bank card to use at the grocery store for her shopping.When her bank statements comes in the mail. She wonders what is these card charges. I tell her it's from when you send me shopping using your bank card. With her dementia she refuses to remember the truth and makes me feel like a theft.
She forgot her 4 dight pin for her card so I have to swip it as credit everytime when I use it. The bank told me the only way we can change the pin to the card is to have my Aunt come in to the bank. It's hard to get her out to the doctor let alone to a bank. With her dementia she would just forget the pin anyway. So I've been using her bank card as credit when shopping for her groceries.
I'm worried? Am I ok by using her card this way? I do keep all recepts/records of all spendings. Am I ok? Can I get in trouble by doing this? I'm worried because with her dementia she forgets and in turn accuses me of spending without her permission when I don't. She gives permission then forgets later on down the road.I try to get her bank statements each month from her before she see's them so it don't cause arguing I'm tired of arguing with a 88 yr old lady with dementia.
My Aunt wrote a check out to cash the other day for $300 for me to cash to get her some spending money. Two days later she's broke has no money. Where did the $300 she had go who knows !She sends me to the bank again for another $300. That's $600 I drawed out of the bank for her in one week. I'm the feller going to the bank all the time. I'm getting worried. Do I need to worry?
It's her money. Not my money. But, I am her DPOA. Is what makes me worry about all of this. If I was asked where did the missing $300 go I wouldn't have a clue. I gave her the cash and she does I don't know what with it. If I attempt to ask her where is her money she feels I'm nosy and non of my business asking.
If she keeps losing or hiding money. Some day I maybe asked where did it all go. I wouldn't have a clue without ram sacking her house to find the missing money.
Here's my main concern,
What do say when she loses cash? Do I need to worry?
I feel I'm doing everything correct other then the Aunt hiding money.
The hided money will at some point will need to be called for won't it? then what?
As I'm her DPOA at her bank and using her debit card as credit.
Do I sign her name or my name after swiping the card? Sometimes my Aunt gives the bank card to my wife to shop for her. My wife signs my wifes name.
Can my wife be accuse or finger pointed if accused? I don't want to get in any trouble with this stuff down the road. Any advice?
I think you're right to be concerned. Without knowing all the details is there another family member who can come in and say, "Hey, where's all this money going?" That's just one concern. The other concern is she's burning money, or might as well be. She's hiding it away, stashing it someplace. It might turn up one day or it might not. Regardless, she's wasting her money. Maybe she can afford to do that, I don't know, but I think "losing" $600 in 2 days is a big deal.
Someone with dementia isn't able to take care of their own business which is why they have a POA. Your aunt is clearly unable to manage her finances. I totally understand why you don't want this battle on your hands but as caregivers we have to pick and choose our battles and finances would be a battle I'd choose if it were me. It's not just your aunt's money that's at stake it's your responsibility as her POA to manage her finances.
As POA is your name on any of her accounts? It should be. If it's not take your POA to the bank and have your name put on her account (the account she uses for cash and groceries and such). You need to have access to this account and not have to go through your aunt to get it. When my dad was incapable of managing his finances I was his POA I had his bank statements sent to my home because if he got ahold of them he would obsess over it and not understand what was going on and trying to explain it would be an exercise in futility since he wasn't in his right mind. It's best just to skip the middleman (your aunt) and take care of it yourself.
As for how to get control of her checking account and debit card my advice would be to just take it. I'm not a big fan of caregivers just snatching control away from our elderly loved ones but this needs to be straightened out and the only way that can happen is if you are in control of her account. Again, having dementia, your aunt is neurologically incapable of doing it herself and I can only assume that's why she designated you POA. As you said, getting the information away from her will cause problems but it's in her best interest and for her own good. She must have trusted you to designate you POA, now you have to put that POA to good use in order to protect her. Let her kick and scream and fight you. You know you're not doing anything wrong, you're only trying to help her. I'm also not a big fan of trying to help people when they expressly tell me they don't want help but again, with dementia, the normal rules don't apply.
Keeping receipts and records is a great idea and is essential. But when that cash disappears if someone wants to stick their nose in and start pointing fingers the finger is going to be pointed right at you. I don't know your family or if you have family or if your aunt has interested parties (like adult children) so maybe this isn't an issue and there's no one around who will ever take an interest in what's going on but you are wide open for accusations. In order to protect yourself not to mention your aunt I would stop giving her $300 a pop. Maybe she's rich and can afford to throw that kind of money away, I don't know, but she doesn't need $300 while she just sits at home. Sometimes as POA we have to make decisions we don't want to make, sometimes we have to be the bad guy. When my dad was in a NH he wanted to have cash on him. I knew it would be lost or stolen or hidden somewhere so I didn't give him more than he could afford to lose: I gave him $20 in various denominations. The next day I asked him if he still had it and after looking for it and getting upset about it and obsessing over it all day he couldn't come up with it. I never gave him money again. He'd ask and I'd redirect his attention to something else:
Dad: "Can you bring me some money the next time you come."
Me: "Sure"
A day later:
Dad: "Do you have any money I can just carry with me?"
Me: "Oh no, Dad, I did have some but I bought gas on my way here. I'll bring it next time."
Dad: OK.
It's exhausting but redirection is effective. Sometimes we have to get sneaky and there's no rule that says we can't use the dementia to our advantage when trying to protect someone from themselves.
Yup, you and your wife can get into trouble.
Why do you continue in this untenable situation?
I hear ya. I try my best to cover my butt. Very true my cousin went to jail for abusing her. The difference between me and her is I have a home to live in and the cousin didn't. The cousin and her boyfriend lived with my aunt and drunk like a fish 24/7. With two drunks and a dementia old lady together 24/7. The two that went to jail for battery, was bound to happen sooner or later I'm sure of it. Their both out of jail from a slap on the hand and moved out of state. I drawed a line not to cross with my Aunt I will not move in and live with her. When that time happens nurcing home she goes. I truely understand what your saying pamstegman. With me as her poa & caregiver there is no signs of abuse or any 911 calls since I came into the picture. I slowed down going to see her. I was seeing her every other day but, now once a week at the most. You know come to think of it, she hasn't fill down in 2 months now. Sometimes I wonder if my Aunt was setting me up as falling all the time. I talked to my cousin a month or so after she got out of jail. My cousin denied laying a hand on her states up & down she didn't lay a hand on her. With police reports and from the doctor who knows anymore whos telling the truth the Aunt or the cousin.
Anyway,
Yes I'm DPOA and noted at her bank. She pays her bills on her own. Until she starts showing trouble paying her bills. I felt there was no need for me to take control of her checkbook. The attorney that created this DPOA told me at that time to take the POA to her doctor & bank ASAP before it's too late is why I activated this DPOA. Sometimes I wonder if I acted to soon?
Anyway, she's either giving, losing or stashing her cash when I get cash from the bank for her. She gives me her bank card to use as a credit card for groceries because, she don't know her 4 dight pin. Then forgets she told me to use it. This Dementia may just land me in jail. What to do?
I would hand that job over to a fiduciary in two seconds! Relinquish the POA to someone who has worked in the court system. Get a geriatric assessment done to determine how much help she needs. We have all been reading you for months and nothing seems to have changed. Wash your hands of it.
Your aunt is not refusing to remember you going to the store. She is not able to. You might try to use the calendar and make notations of when you give her money, or go to the store for her.
Good Luck, Dog.
When I post a thread I try to give as much information as possible.Doing that I think is why this all sounds confused to most people here.Let's just say I've been thru the ringer with this old lady.I ask my self everyday why keep helping this old lady.There's only one out of two option I have to stop helping her.Either,stop and let the state take over or find another sucker to become her POA & caregiver.With her dementia,There is no other person willing to help her.So,that gives me the first and only option to let the state take over.I can't find the nerve to stop helping her.If I stop I'm throwing her to the dogs so to speak.
I'm DPOA & Caregiver "Both jobs I do".Isn't easy.Personally I think my Aunt is lazy.Sounds harsh but,maybe true.She don't go outside,She don't drive her car.The length of trip from her bedroom to her Kitchen table is the same amount of trip to her car.She makes it to her bed all the time but,can't seem to make it to her car brings wonders.
From her losing or hiding money.As I am her DPOA.I'm the feller the fingers will be pointed towards.I agreed to help her.Not to take a fall for her.Sounds like I must makeup a excuse where the money went ha?From the start I walked a straight line legally dealing with this old lady as her POA.Because,of her dementia hiding money or forgetting where she placed it.I now have to makeup a excuse to cover my butt?Months back I wanted to move her funds from her bank to hide the money so she could apply for Medicaid but,I decided I wanted to do this all legal.Look where this is getting me?
I feel as long as I note every dime I spend of her money for her needs I'm covered.
How crooked this legal system is,As I said before my cousin was her caregiver that went bad.Going thru my Aunt's checkbook I found checks for $300-$600 that this cousin cashed.The cousin wrote a few checks stating house payment.My Aunt's house is paid for no house payment.I talked to a detective about these checks the cousin wrote.The detective told me I have no proof.The detective said the cousin may have needed food to live on while they was living with the Aunt.The aunt said she didn't write the checks and didn't approve the checks.
had to lay down a trail of green to get my sisters help with mom too but the checkbook made me look like the recipient.
really? dont worry about prosecution. finances are going to mingle where caregiving is involved. ive given my mother cash for years and used her bankcard to purchase everything from concert tickets to motorcycle parts.
I've been going to the store for her .I do everything for her. I get spending money for her from her bank when she needs it. I keep all recepts from her grocery shopping I do for her every week. I keep a log of everything I do and a log of how she is doing each time I see her. If I get her $300 from her bank for her and the next day she loses it all. I note it in my log. That's all I can do to cover my butt. I don't know what else I can do to cover my self. She tells me to use her debit card for her grocery shopping. So I do. She tells me to do it and I do. Am I over reacting on all of this stuff? Maybe so. But, I always think of the worse incase it does happen I'm prepared for it. Someone here told me to have her bank statements forwarded to my address problem solved. But, doing that without her knowing may bring issues. This old lady has dementia very bad. I'm her DPOA but, without her willing to work with me and stop accusing because she forgets makes a big problem for me. Where did her money go? She won't remember if ever asked...
My Aunt has very bad dementia and refusing to see a doctor. I can't force her to see a doctor. She knows what would happen if she goes to a doctor "incompatent".
Is why she refuses to go to a doctor now. Last Dr trip they told her no more nite driving. She gun shy to go to a doctor now. With her dementia she is very hateful to me and my wife. My wife feels sorry for her is why my wife tells me to don't stop helping her. If we stop there is knowone else to help her but the State. If I let the State take over she will point the finger at me why. This isn't a simple task with this Aunt. I regret ever getting involved. But, now I'm stuck.
About her losing money and her spending,
I think I'm just over reacting on all of this. I keep recepts and logs of all I spend of her money for her. Every dime spent is on her. When you walk a straight line managing someone's money. Then, in turn they attempt to accuse you of wrong spending makes a person feel like buying a Harley with their money lol.
As long as she don't need Medicaid I have no worries until then. But, in time it adds up is my biggest worry. If she accuses me of wrong spending of her money? What about all the spending she had me do for her 4 months ago.All that's wrong too?
I could understand if I was pulling thousands of dollars at a time out of her account.
I try to keep the same amount of spending each month so it don't throw red flags.
But, when she loses or hides cash I get her makes me the feller.
It seems the obsession with $$$ doesn't lie only with your Aunt.
Over and over you say you regret getting involved with her. Well, if those feelings are true, you are doing no one any favors.
My Dad is doing the same thing to me.