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Hi there,


My dad is in an assisted living facility that recently changed ownership, they are now requesting a form be filled out disclosing his earnings and where they come from as well as his assets and what they are worth, this is because they are now a not for profit facility, anyone have any experience with this ??? I was very surprised by this request and the explanation they gave was weak at best also would anyone know if this means if paperwork that was signed for the original facility is now void? I will be finding this info out from them but just wondered if anyone has had this happen


thank you

You signed a "guarantor of payment paper"? If you signed that in your own name, that made you personally responsible for payment. If you signed as your dad's POA, then he was responsible.

If the previous owners sold out to the not-for-profit, and if your dad was discharged because he was gone for several days in the hospital, then your previous contract probably is over with, and the new owners are following their normal procedure for a new admission, which includes making sure there will be a source of payment.
Unless you can afford to be held personally responsible for his care, DO NOT sign as a guarantor of payment. If you are his POA, then sign as his POA, making only his income and assets available to pay for his care.
They probably just want to make sure that he has income and assets to cover his care for a while, and they want to make sure that a Medicaid application gets submitted on a timely basis if he will run out of funds.
There is a current question on this very topic on this forum. A lady is running out of money to pay for her current private placement, and no acceptable Medicaid placement is available. Your dad's home is wise to look ahead.
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Monimom Mar 14, 2019
Yes, I signed as myself , I am his POA , his health care directive and am a joint on his bank account, I didn't write "POA" next to my signature... I hope I am not going to regret that. I was uneasy about signing, but was pressured to get it done, I already handle his finances so didn't seem to think it would be a problem, I'm afraid to ask what problems I might encounter ???
This request for asset disclosure is likely a glorified information grab as I was told now that they are "not for profit" they can no longer "kick someone out" for running out of money, so they are covering there asses, by checking assets.
I am waiting to receive the papers , I was told about them but have not received them yet, (I live 1200 miles away) .
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Could it be that they will now be charging fees based on income?
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Monimom Mar 14, 2019
No I think its to see how many residents will need to apply for Medicaid/ or VA benefits... so that they are covered financially .
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My experience is that the public is asked to fill out forms and answer questions that may not be legal to ask.

My response is to not respond at all, delay, delay, until I am sure my cooperation is necessary and required. I no longer answer every question on "their" forms, and "they" do not notice or even care, or read the answers.

Of course I cooperate when needed. But I did not sign my agreement/approval to the oppressive Rules Regs of my community, as it did not matter, after a time, the rules, regs. are in effect anyhow, and they apply to all.

When it comes to financial disclosure forms, I never fill them out. But don't take my advice unless you object to following the crowd off the nearest cliff, imo.

My motto: "What can be done by paperwork, can be undone with more paperwork."

Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer.
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Monimom Mar 14, 2019
LOL, your response is my usual go -to.... I delay always, usually because i'm pecking away at a keyboard researching ….
I haven't received these papers yet, they apparently put them in my dads room at the ALF, yet I have repeatedly told them he is NOT to be approached for anything financial , I handle everything.
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If one party to a contract transfers its interest in the contract to a third party, that can't terminate the original contract, no. So your father's original contract holds good unless and until he or his representatives have agreed otherwise. But check the original contract - there may be relevant clauses in it.

However, I would expect a not for profit organisation to have entirely different financial reporting requirements and procedures to follow from a commercial one; and given all kinds of regulations that have cropped up in all kinds of surprising places in recent years, my first guess would be that this is about money laundering, and various wonks deciding to make blameless citizens whose only contact with money laundering has been to forget to take the change out of their jeans pocket disclose their sources so as to make it easier for our security agencies to Spot The Oligarch.

It is very tiresome. I have lost count of the number of forms I have filled in with my humiliatingly sparse financial history since about 1998 or so. But unless you can really be bothered I'm not sure it's worth your while to argue - I certainly can't see that there's any risk to your father involved, though you might want to ask a few questions about Data Protection.
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Monimom Mar 14, 2019
They did assure me it was a vague "snapshot" that they didn't want any identifying information, such as account #'s or addresses.
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My mother's independent living/senior apartment facility changed from profit to non-profit. She had lived there for 5 years and never missed paying on time. I talked with the administrator and was told that she could just write 0 in the blanks for assets and income.
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I would ask the administrator directly. All the questions that you have. Usually the billing dept. And sicial workers are told to have people fill out forms, and really they have not a clue, as to why.
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Moni - I’m going to approach this from a different perspective as to why the ?s. If this is new ownership, they reviewed residents files and looked at whatever notes put in by staff. Your dads a veteran, right? So has he at all filed for or is he receiving VA aid & attendance $? It kinda reads that he’s using / spending down his own assets to pay for AL. If this is the case, I’m wondering if what is happening is that the new management is aware he’s a vet and wants to make sure he is getting any benefit he’s entitled to plus it does help them in getting paid and getting paid dependably which VA A&A will very much s..t..r..e..t..c..h out his funds for paying for AL.

I think VA A&A pays abt $1700. And he still gets whatever else income he has plus the A&A. VA now is similar to Medicaid in that they have to show to be within certain range of assets in order to get A&A. But unlike Medicaid, he does NOT need to be impoverished. He has to meet his he VA criteria for needing aid & attendance and has to be under the income / asset max for a widower.

I’m trying to look at this as a perhaps positive. Which is not my usual first reaction any ?s in dealing with billing and admissions at any facility.

Now if you end up sensing this place & new management is all about profitability...... I’d suggest you start finding out what VA facilities are around and get him onto waiting lists.
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Monimom Mar 11, 2019
Thank you, yes I do agree with all that you've stated, it could likely be those stated possibilities
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Were you talking to the business office? Were they not able to tell you simply "we need to know that we're going to get paid for the services we provide?"

You give them a rough idea of what dad's assets are. We were required to do this before we signed mom into Independent Living, Assisted Living and Nursing Home. All three wanted to know that they were going to get paid.
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Monimom Mar 11, 2019
Thank you, he's been a resident since Oct, although hes not been there physically since Dec, (hosp/rehab), this change of ownership happened since hes been away, and now we are presented with this … It just took me off guard, as we didn't need to do any of this initially, although I did have to sign a guarantor of payment paper, to ensure they'd get $$.
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I would not give them account numbers. I would list SS, Pension and total assets. I would not give them bank info or what bank he does business with. You have no idea who works for them. The less info you give the less you have to worry about Dad's account getting hacked. Tell them you are uncomfortable giving them anymore. Especially if their reasoning is weak.
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Monimom Mar 11, 2019
Thank you, they don't want account #'s and I definitely wouldn't have given them, they want a vague account of his financial status, I guess it has something to do with being a not for profit facility now.
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