Just got a bill for $10,000, never notified or discussed. ALF recently changed ownership. No new contract. Mom's status hasn't changed. I have a meeting with them tomorrow. I am livid. Mom's been there for 4 years. Advice?
I think this is more a notice of a price increase than anything else. Sans contract, that debt is uncollectible. But I suspect mom's rate is going to increase substantially.
I'm guessing that when the business was bought out, the new owners audited the special services everyone was getting and put a value on them. It is not unusual at all for ALFs to charge for accompanying to the dining room, help dressing, bathing, etc etc. perhaps the previous owners weren't doing that.
As I said, I think the bill is unenforceable. Their reasoning may be that you will object less to a substantial price increase when they symbolically back bill you.
If there was no agreement, there can be no bill. The facility owns the burden of proving that fee-for-service work had been submitted for approval by the person named as responsible for the resident.
You say that they need to provide IN WRITING to you proof of who, how, when the services were ordered and approved for billing. And if they don't, call the better business bureau and get an attorney.
Start the meeting calm and non-accusatory. Simply ask for the written agreement that authorizes these charges. You know there isn't one. They know there isn't one, but force them to admit it. If they do admit it, then you are home free for the back-dated charges.
If they say they will find it and get back to you, say, calmly again, "Thank you. As soon as you find it and send it to me, I'll schedule another meeting to work out payments. If there isn't anything else to discuss today, I'll be running along to visit my mother."
OF COURSE it is understandable you are upset. But I think for this first meeting you'll be better off staying calm and business-like. You are simply a person who knows what she is doing and what her rights are and are acting accordingly. No need to raise your voice, or cry, or show how upset you are. You think they have made a mistake and are confident they will correct it. You may need to show how upset you are in a future meeting, but to start with, play it cool.
Jeanne, etal. thank you for your sage advice. I will be calm, cool, collected and business - like as I've always been. It's just been that I've always done and I'm just blindsided at this latest. I'd like to rant, but it certainly wouldn't do any good.
U[date: The meeting went very well. I went in with a smile and a please help me. Very empathetic, concerned, apologetic, cordial, etc.
Although nothing was resolved today, I did agree to pay the non-disputed amount and there will be no late fees or penalties on the remainder. Apparently something happened in the transition and there will be a thorough review as to what happened and why. There was no documentation that I was ever notified of anything.
They also listened to me as to what I'd like, which is that to pull $ out of my hat would create undue hardship and if there was a mistake of under billing that we should renegotiate going forward, not back and I seemed to get head-nods, but no promises. There will be another meeting next week.
Oh, and went armed with all my paperwork and invoices for the past year. They made copies.
Well, I had to come back here and update. ALF admitted their mistake, there will be no back charges, but as I expected, there will be new charges going forward.
That's what I was hoping for, and I must say they were very good. I do like the facility and the care they give.
Hey! There are good places and good people out there! Just have your paperwork in order! :)
Mystic, so glad you got this resolved to your satisfaction. This is a good example for all that conducting business in a business-like manner is the best way.
When my uncle was in SNF as a private pay patient (he was in a financial position to pay the bill) i was amazed when I received the first bill. There were charges of $5.00 for soap and $5.00 for shampoo for each shower that he was supposedly given. I did not have soap and shampoo there. They charged for pull ups and a few other things. Nursing home doc changed his Meds and the next month i was charged for the old and new meds. Needless to say I bought him soap and shampoo . ironically they used the same one bottle for soap and shampoo and it cost him $5.00 a squirt. They charged him $50. For a bag of no name depends. When I complained because I had depends on ther
In his room they still tried to make me pay because they opened the pack and no one else could use it. The place treated him well but I was really annoyed that each month the bill had mistakes. Some months it was less then $10.00 but it still annoyed me to no end.
I think this is more a notice of a price increase than anything else. Sans contract, that debt is uncollectible. But I suspect mom's rate is going to increase substantially.
I'm guessing that when the business was bought out, the new owners audited the special services everyone was getting and put a value on them. It is not unusual at all for ALFs to charge for accompanying to the dining room, help dressing, bathing, etc etc. perhaps the previous owners weren't doing that.
As I said, I think the bill is unenforceable. Their reasoning may be that you will object less to a substantial price increase when they symbolically back bill you.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
You say that they need to provide IN WRITING to you proof of who, how, when the services were ordered and approved for billing. And if they don't, call the better business bureau and get an attorney.
If they say they will find it and get back to you, say, calmly again, "Thank you. As soon as you find it and send it to me, I'll schedule another meeting to work out payments. If there isn't anything else to discuss today, I'll be running along to visit my mother."
OF COURSE it is understandable you are upset. But I think for this first meeting you'll be better off staying calm and business-like. You are simply a person who knows what she is doing and what her rights are and are acting accordingly. No need to raise your voice, or cry, or show how upset you are. You think they have made a mistake and are confident they will correct it. You may need to show how upset you are in a future meeting, but to start with, play it cool.
Although nothing was resolved today, I did agree to pay the non-disputed amount and there will be no late fees or penalties on the remainder. Apparently something happened in the transition and there will be a thorough review as to what happened and why. There was no documentation that I was ever notified of anything.
They also listened to me as to what I'd like, which is that to pull $ out of my hat would create undue hardship and if there was a mistake of under billing that we should renegotiate going forward, not back and I seemed to get head-nods, but no promises. There will be another meeting next week.
Oh, and went armed with all my paperwork and invoices for the past year. They made copies.
So we shall see. Please send me good thoughts!
That's what I was hoping for, and I must say they were very good. I do like the facility and the care they give.
Hey! There are good places and good people out there! Just have your paperwork in order! :)
Comments please?
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