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I was raised by my grandparents. They were my parents. After my grandpa passed away I moved in with my grandma who has dementia because I didn't want my aunt to put her in a nursing home, and she threatened that all the time. A while after living with grandma my aunt came over, told my grandma to get ready (my grandma looked so excited thinking she was being taken out somewhere by here daughter)and they returned about 30 minutes later. When my aunt entered the house she had a paper held up and said "I have irrevocable power of attorney". I didn't say anything because I really didn't understand at that time what was going on. I was very uneducated on POA. Well, after 3 years of caring for (I will forever thank God for that time!) my grandma my aunt put my grandma in a nursing home, immediately put a 3 day eviction notice on the door to evict me, she started moving stuff out of the house, told everyone I'm a mooch who just needs to go, and just became hateful and controlling like I had never seen before. Well, at the house I started demanding she follow the landlord tenant act in KS since she filed with the court to evict me stating she is my landlord, the police Got called when I denied her entry after court. Cops said she has to stay away until I'm gone. (We came to an agreement in court.) She was so mad when I questioned her about seeing the POA and asked if my grandma was still legally competent or not, and dealing with the police that she put password on my grandma and now my children and I (the only people who were around for years!)can't see here anymore. It's killing me. I'm angry. I'm depressed. Sad. Just a bunch of emotions that make me physically sick. She is the last person on the earth (besides my children) that is my family. In 3 years I never left her side for more than an hour or so a week. My aunt has also closed accounts my grandpa set up for me and my sister. It's not fair. But I don't have any fight in me except the fight to see my grandma. I'm typing this on my Phone so im sorry if it is poorly written. I hope someone can tell me how to see my grandma again. Thanks everyone.

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Don't ever apologise. The more detail you provide, the easier it is for us total strangers to understand what's happened.

Hm. I'm afraid your aunt has bullied you. That doesn't make her a bad person, just an impatient one who can't be bothered to deal respectfully with a 'child' who's in her way. But it's not okay for her to separate your grandmother from people your grandmother wants to see, and that is worth arguing about.

Don't blame yourself for not knowing about POAs beforehand. Why would you? Nobody does, until they find out. I certainly didn't and it landed heavily on my toes.

Well, I don't know, I don't want to encourage you to go on some wild goose chase; but that POA set-up sounds well dodgy to me. And IF it was, then it's not valid. And then the cat is right among the pigeons. Or geese.

The thing is, if your aunt is also nervous that the POA won't bear close scrutiny, that would explain why she doesn't want you to see it. What's harder to explain is why she wouldn't wave under your nose a document that confirmed that she has the authority to prevent contact with your grandmother.

As for the NH: she who pays the piper calls the tune. Your aunt pays the bills. Moreover, the staff at the NH are always going to be on thin ice if they go against a POA's instructions, and what's in it for them to do so? They're not being intentionally mean to you or cruel to your grandmother, they're just taking the line of least resistance.

I should have thought you could be classified as a person with a legitimate interest in verifying the POA documents, but I have no idea what the regulations are in the US. If I were you, I'd consult an elder care attorney and take advice. Be very careful not to choose one who likes to pick fights. Maybe you could call the place where you used to work and ask if they can recommend someone cautious and responsible?

Hm. I'm still not sure I've got the story straight, though. Ok, so your aunt is mad at you for unconnected reasons: I don't need to know what they are; if they're private, that's fine. But it isn't clear to me, no matter how cross with you she is, why she would decide it is in your grandmother's best interests not to see you - why she would be prepared to take her anger with you out on her mother, in other words. I think there must be more to it. You don't have to post it if you're not comfortable, but any lawyer you speak to will need to know the whole story.
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Veronica, I do not know enough about my grandma's finances to know where the money is coming from. The little I do know is from when I was moving and going through stuff I saw a few things like the statement from the bank that had a copy of the transfer of money to my aunt and also the many offers to purchase the land. My grandpa, before he passed told me about the accounts he set up for my sister and I and I asked my aunt about those and first she said there is No account with my name on it. Then I said grandpa told me about it and she said that she decided to close them so there is No account for me or my sister and it wasn't right for them to have accounts for us and not her two kids. I have the texts from her still stating this. After I moved in with my grandma however, besides me benefiting by not paying rent or utilities (which is a huge benefit I know) I did but benefit or get paid. My monthly child support is what paid my bills and allowed me to be able to care for her 24/7 and still survive. (My ex, who pays the child support was 100% supportive since he was also close to my my grandparents and didn't want my grandma to end up in a nursing home.) My grandparents sold their house to a fast food chain who paid 500k . That was ten years ago. The house they bought was 140k. I saw 160k went to my aunt. Where the rest is I don't know. My aunt has everything at her house regarding banking info. The little I did find I don't think she knew was there in my grandma's house. I have just never got into their finances. But I do question where the money could be because she told my grandma on multiple occasions she is flat broke and because of that couldn't go to funerals out of town (her sister in law and cousins and close family friend all passed away while I was there and my aunt wouldn't let her go because she couldn't afford it. She also didn't tell my grandma about one death, her reason being my grandma would just forget it anyway so Why bother. I told my grandma anyway because I disagreed strongly. My grandma is still a person and forgets some stuff but not everything.) But she definitely made my grandma live poor.
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Countrymouse, since we agreed the first court date (I could not have an eviction on my credit report, plus with grandma not there I needed to leave anyway...)for me to move out in 30 days we didn't ask to see it. Since then I have read and read and reread everything I can on the internet and it wasn't until then that I became educated about POAs. So my ignorance resulted in failure to even ask to see it before agreeing, as well as knowing to question the validity if it due to how she obtained it. Is there somewhere in the courts I can petition or request for someone to see if the document is legal, as well as if she is committing fraud with my grandma's money. My focus is her care and her being isolated from loved ones and to stop my aunt from keeping me from her. I gave up my life for a life with my grandma so she could enjoy her "last years" at home. She raised me and gave me all the love in the world when my parents didn't want me and my sister. She had us from the time I was 2 and my sister was 1. I never did anything wrong with here possessions or money. The emergency room doctors told my aunt twice that if I didn't pay such close attention to my grandma to get her in so fast because most people wouldn't of recognized so fast that the pain in her belly was more than a normal tummy ache, an infection that was spreading so rapidly would of killed her in hours. All of that is really not relevant, but I just want to make it clear I love my grandma and have always done right by her and because of that I don't deserve to be denied seeing her. My aunt is mad at me for her reasons unrelated to my grandma and the more I questioned her is what led to this. Nothing more. Sorry my response was so long.
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Where is the money comming from to pay for Gma's nursing home? If it is Medicaid expect your aunt to be in a lot of trouble. Medicaid will have a lein on the house before you can say Kansas plus Aunty will have to repay the $160 K if it was given within the past five years.
Has there also been an monetary advantage to you other than what would be considered normal compensation for the care you have been providing?
Pam Stegman are you awake yet this morning? What is your take on this?
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Reynowrap, have you mentioned your concerns about the POA to your lawyer? If so, what was the advice about that?
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Yes. There is way more history than I've put here. The validity of the POA was not questioned or looked at because at the first court date I agreed to leave in 30 days. Case was dropped with a journal entry stating if I do not leave at agreed time she refiles, I lose and pay court costs. So I left at the agreed time. As to make peace and daughter trumps granddaughter and POA trumps all, well, I wouldn't be posting here if it was that simple. And my grandma's house is being sold, she has already taken the valuables and antiques before my grandma went to the nursing home. She was given, as a gift, 160k , and she is holding out on all the offers to buy my grandma's land in Oklahoma by oil companies who are offering about 200k. I don't understand what she is doing, if it's even legal, and I don't care. Keep the money, just let me see my gma. In the last 6 months before nursing home my aunt saw my gma less than 3 hours. When my gma had an accident and feces was a trail from the bed to the bathroom, I was cleaning it without making my gma feel bad. My aunt came in to the room and started making puking noises and said I gotta get out of here and said Oh your much stronger than I would be. And she left. No regard at all to the fact she hurt my gmas feelings. So. If it isn't about money then I don't know. My gma raised me and her and I are closer than she is to my dad, who hasn't seen my gma in a year and a half, or my aunt. And when my grandma signed POA she had No clue what she leaving to go do. And she had No say in the preparation of the document. She was already diagnosed with dementia for a couple years before it was signed also.
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What's the story with your "dad for want of a better word"?

I don't like the sound of how your aunt obtained her POA. On the other hand, if you've already been to court, presumably its validity has been tested and confirmed, yes?

If your aunt were after your grandmother's assets, and had simply been hell-bent on getting you out of the way, it doesn't make sense that she left you in comparative peace for three years before making your grandmother move to an expensive NH.

I'd love to help, I'm so sorry for how you feel, but I can't say anything when I don't really understand what's going on.
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Until you can figure out if there is any recourse for you, send your grandma some cards and letters and let her know that you're thinking about her.
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Someone focused only on the money doesn't put her mom in a nursing home. She does everything she can NOT to put mom in a nursing home.

There is more to this story.

As to what you can do to see your gram again, the answer is to make some sort of peace with her daughter. It may be unfortunate in this case, but "daughter" trumps "granddaughter". And a power of attorney trumps all.
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I will contact an elder law attorney and see what advice they he. Thank you.
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I have requested to see the POA multiple times. My grandma is in a place called Meadowbrook. I talked to the DON there after being kicked out (in front of my grandma who was saying "what's going on? Why do you have to leave? What's going on? and she said that it doesn't matter if a person has or has not been declared mentally incompetent, if there is a POA they always follow the POAs wishes. And until I'm given the password I'm not allowed back on the property. My aunt and my dad (for lack of better word) havent spent any real time with her in years. They are focused on money and valuable items from my grandma's house. I'm pretty confident saying she put the password on my grandma because I was demanding to know if my grandma still has a say in her own life. I understand the law to mean until two doctors declare my gma incompetent, she still has a say in her life. She wants to go home and nursing home refuses to listen to her. I'm the only one my grandma has and if there is anything I can do I have to. I was a cna for years at an assisted living facility for Alzheimer's residents and I was happy being there with my grandma caring for her. I don't understand how people care more about money than spending as much time as you can with someone you love who won't be here that much longer. I miss her so much. So do my kids. I'm crying and shaking typing this. I can't just go on with life. I have to see her and she needs to see us!
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What do you mean that she "put password on my grandma"?

Do you know which facility your grandmother is in? Was your grandmother suffering from dementia when your aunt got the POA?

It's my understanding that POA aren't irrevocable. Maybe the irrevocability was a special request

But your grandmother would as principal have to sign any POA granting anyone authority. Did she? Or did she sign and not realize what she signed?

I'm glad you didn't allow your aunt to evict you with only 3 days' notice.

I do think though that you need to see an attorney to determine if an Irrevocable POA is legal in Kansas, and to contact the aunt in writing demanding that a copy be made available to you. An elder law attorney would be femiliar with Kansas law to know what other rights you would have as a relative.
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