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Hello. I had to sell moms home and rent another. Mom is a hoarder. One house was empty for four years due to much needed repairs. Mom’s in a Memory Care facility with Vascular dementia and Alzheimer’s .
She is always asking about her houses, how many she owns, and get the house ready for her to live in. Not ever happening.
i’m POA and Trustee. I cleared out one house, cleaned it and sold it. Money put into her trust account. The other house took 7 months to clear, repair, replace, paint and so much more! It’s now being rented and monies goes into her trust account.
When she asks, I say she has one house and being rented. She doesn't remember, so she asks repeatedly. One thing to remember, you can only use the Capitol Gain Exemption on the house he lived in the last two of the five years owned. So it is a financial consideration.
Hope this helps.
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Babs75 Feb 2021
Yes, and thanks for reminding me about the capitol gains rule. He lived there until September of 2019.
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I have POA for my mom and after she went to memory care I sold her house and her car. I’ve never told her about this and she has never asked. She now has more funds to pay for her care and I do not have the burden of keeping up either of them. If he even understands the paperwork when he receives it, he’ll likely forget about it quickly.
If he insists on seeing it, I would just as directly insist that he cannot see it.
I retained the attorney who set up my mom’s POA for the home sale (I did the car sale on my own) and highly recommend that anyone going through the same process do the same.
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Many good answers here . I also recommend speaking to your attorney (elder ) and get tax advice from his CPA. There are real estate agents that specialize in senior transactions. Both buying snd selling . My experience has been they typically are compassionate and knowledgeable about these type sales. Having a good SRES can help in some tough situations.
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I recently sold my mom's house about 6 months ago. After knowing she wasn't moving back, I started that process right away on selling the home just for the fact it was another huge responsibility. My mom understood she couldn't live alone there anymore and an empty house creates alot of problems that we discussed together. Vandalism, deteriorating , etc. ....... She ask me everyday about the house over and over again. Does she still have it? Is it sold? How much did it sell for? Who has the money? The questions drive me crazy, but that huge extra burden is not there.
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Tough situation to be in, but I think if it's the prudent thing to do, just sell and unfortunately you don't need to explain or take him for visit, sounds cold but honestly he won't remember and telling him and taking him to view once more will only bring back the memories of yesteryear and bring a flood of emotion and wrath possibly on you.
Best wishes in this tough time. I've read others state albeit lying is never morally right, sometimes with holding all the details is a sparing act of compassion.
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If he is moving to memory care, I suspect he is pretty far along with dementia and not mentally sound enough to be discussing financial decisions with you.  Nor does he need the stress of all of that.  I would sell the house and cars so that he has plenty of funds to support his care and there will be one less thing for you to manage.  Those assets are of no value to anyone while sitting there deteriorating and becoming over run with rats.  Should your father have a lucid moment and ask about his home, just reassure him that you are taking care of it for him and then change the subject.
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I never told my Mother anything that I thought would upset her. She forgot things soon enough anyway. It is your decision to make.
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He will receive a copy of the paperwork. When he does, and he asks you questions about it, you answer his questions truthfully.

You are dreading this because you anticipate - and I can't put it better myself! - that he is going to come unhinged. He may, briefly. And that will make no difference either to the fact that the house must be sold and you have the legal authority to do it, or to the reality that the process will by then be under way.

It isn't quite the same situation, but I have just come from a family who dread similar things. They thought they couldn't get Dad vaccinated because they'd never get him to his GP. The wife had cancelled two CT scans because she couldn't get him to agree beforehand to the appointments and didn't know how she'd get him there if he refused to get in the car. This morning, she is fearful that her long, long overdue respite break won't happen because she can't explain it to him. Well - he has been vaccinated, he did attend the CT scan, and I am hopeful that by getting her to focus on the next goal - booking and implementing the respite plan - we can stop her from sabotaging this too.

Here is a useful mantra: "nothing is EVER as bad as you think it's going to be." What's key here is that you don't need your father's co-operation to sell the house, and you mustn't let your fear of his being upset about it stop you doing what you need to do in his best interests. Don't anticipate problems that won't make a material difference to anything. Eyes on the prize.
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My experience was a bit different, as it was my daughter, Mom's granddaughter, who was buying her home. We had already gone through the years of "I want to go home" so I just explained the situation and Mom was on board. I had already moved most of what she loved into her MC room. I never took her back to see the home. It was a mobile home and we had it moved. Perhaps, if there's a younger family member that he cares a lot for, you told him that you were selling it to them, it would be a bit easier? Just tossing out the idea. Best wishes to you.
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He will receive a copy of the paperwork. When he does, and he asks you questions about it, you answer his questions truthfully.

You are dreading this because you anticipate - and I can't put it better myself! - that he is going to come unhinged. He may, briefly. And that will make no difference either to the fact that the house must be sold and you have the legal authority to do it, or to the reality that the process will by then be under way.

It isn't quite the same situation, but I have just come from a family who dread similar things. They thought they couldn't get Dad vaccinated because they'd never get him to his GP. The wife had cancelled two CT scans because she couldn't get him to agree beforehand to the appointments and didn't know how she'd get him there if he refused to get in the car. This morning, she is fearful that her long, long overdue respite break won't happen because she can't explain it to him. Well - he has been vaccinated, he did attend the CT scan, and I am hopeful that by getting her to focus on the next goal - booking and implementing the respite plan - we can stop her from sabotaging this too.

Here is a useful mantra: "nothing is EVER as bad as you think it's going to be." What's key here is that you don't need your father's co-operation to sell the house, and you mustn't let your fear of his being upset about it stop you doing what you need to do in his best interests. Don't anticipate problems that won't make a material difference to anything. Eyes on the prize.
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jacobsonbob Feb 2021
"nothing is EVER as bad as you think it's going to be." That's quite true. However, what often happens is that something entirely unexpected pops up that turns out to be worse than the thing one was dreading!! (But at least in the latter case, one is less likely to waste time worrying about it--or perhaps not even have the opportunity to do so--before it actually happens!)
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A virtual tour using a smart phone could allow him to view the property.
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Does he need the money for his present situation? If so, you need a lawyer to draw up a real POA. If he is moving to memory care, I assume you can (and should) have him declared incompetent, and you named as overall POA. This will not work for some things, such as Social Security and various government entities, but will allow you to sell the house. I'd suggest then setting up (if you haven't already) banking and investment accounts (best to use a broker for the second thing), in which you are not a co-owner, but are able to sign for him. The bank and/or broker will understand how to do this. Otherwise, your finances are tied to his, and you can become part of his responsibilities.

If he doesn't need the money, and you don't want the hassle, hire people to keep the house safe, lawn mowed, electricity on but not running, etc. There's enough stuff you have to do without this.
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jacobsonbob Feb 2021
If there is no chance that he will be able to move back, and no one else in the family wishes to live in it, then it still may be a good idea to sell the house, particularly if there are other investments such as stocks--the house costs money to keep up while the other investments generate money. This is what my sister and I did with our parents' house, and the proceeds from the house paid for a year of nursing home care, and dividends, etc. helped pay after that. Our parents wanted my sister and me to have an inheritance, and after spending several years in the nursing home this is what happened (so I'll be able to pay for care if I get to that point!). It makes sense to prioritize and think "long term" when dealing with assets, especially if it's obvious they could last a long time paying for care because one never knows how long parents will live or what needs they will have. There was no sense in paying taxes and heating an empty house for a half-dozen years (especially, in our case, when a neighbor was interested in buying it).
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Before the talk, you should take your Dad to see his house. It doesn't take much to have a makeshift ramp or get a wheelchair over a step or door jamb.

After he sees the house, rats and all he would be more inclined to understand that it needs TLC that you and your husband can not give.

Tell your Dad that ya'll were told the house needed to be sold and the money put in his account to help pay for his Care Facility.

But fir his sake, let him reminise in his home and chose a few items to take with him to Memory Care.

Prayers
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When my father entered assisted living I sold his house. He didn't want to do it because he kept saying he was only trying out the assisted living situation and would come back home if he didn't like it. I wanted to assure that wasn't an option, plus one of the reasons for assisted living was that the house needed repairs and upkeep that I didn't want to take on. It wasn't easy but I just didn't dwell on the house sale. We discussed that it had to be sold, he got angry, I ignored him, we sold it. Now, he will ask me if the house has been sold, or he'll say "You sold the house, didn't you?" but it's not really an accusation anymore. Don't try to get him to understand or even agree since it's something that just has to be done. Be matter-of-fact in your presentation and discussion and don't allow any doubt to creep in. He won't like it but he'll eventually get over it. I wouldn't tell him any more than absolutely necessary. Unless he needs to sign paperwork, which since you are the guardian/conservator I doubt will be necessary, you can just let it come up in conversation and then move on from the topic.
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I have read this before where a guardian has to get permission to do certain things. I understand the logic in it, the state is protecting Dad, but just seems your hands are tied.

I had my Mom assign me POA thru a lawyer. I wanted all the Ts crossed and Is dotted. Mom gave me the ability to sell her house. So, I put it up for sale. I never told her I did it. I never took her back to it once she moved out and I definitely didn't show her pictures. It just gives them the impression they could go back. And their minds no longer can reason that they r where they are because its safer.

Most people who suffer from Dementia want to go home. My Aunt would tell a friend she would be home as soon as they let her out of this place. But the "home" she was talking about was where she grew up. You just have to make up little white lies. Its a shame the courts feel they need to keep a person suffering from Dementia informed. I mean, you received guardianship because Dad had a Dementia. Dad may get the letter and have no idea what it means. If he does, just be honest and say that he could no longer afford to keep it up. Yes, he may get upset but then he hopefully will forget. I would make sure I took the letter, once he read it, and not mention the house again. Eventually as the desease progresses, he will forget he had a home and except where he is.
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Isabelsdaughter Feb 2021
Totally agree
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He's in a wheelchair and his own attorney left him some months back (which was a bit of a surprise to my attorney. She thought he would stick around until after the house was sold.) No, he can't do any of these things any more. In fact I found it surprising a couple months ago when he asked me if he still owns a house. I told him yes and then the 'I want to go home, I want to go home!' started in again which he can't do. His house is not safe, it is old, it is dark, and not wheelchair accessible. The housing market is hot in my town and it will go for top dollar even with the issues because we are low on supply. His house is funky and the realtor has told us it will go to someone who 'likes that kind of house'. It is on 1/3 acre which is rare here in town.
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I'm of the mindset that it's best to be honest or your Dad may keep on asking you about the house. I sold my Mom's house while she was still living there (she couldn't afford to pay the taxes anymore and she understood that). She was in the early stages of dementia then.

I let her know that I was moving her to Vermont to live with me and that I would take good care of her and that comforted her.

My Mom stopped herself from driving because she kept getting scared of getting lost. So deep down she knew something was wrong and that she needed help.

When her house was sold (I had already moved her to Vermont) I drove to her state to sign the papers at the closing (I have POA) and that was over 5 years ago.

I would take photographs (the type from a real camera) of the house and all the rooms inside as well as outside and make put them on a large cardboard so he can see his house. Staples will take the photographs and design them for you.

Good luck!
Jenna
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cxmoody Feb 2021
If OP's Dad is in Memory Care, there is a good chance that he will not remember this conversation.
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I went through this with my parents. As soon as they moved into assisted living I went to work getting the house ready to sell. It was a mess. I cleaned out personal belongings and hired a guy to haul several truckloads to the dump then sold it as is.

I had a perfunctory hearing with the guardianship judge and got permission.

I had already gone through guardianship Conservatorship process, mom and dad had been served legal paperwork during that process but didn’t understand or even ask me. They also got paperwork on the house sale but never brought it up with me. Dad had very little short term memory at this point but mom still functioned fairly well.

If they had confronted me I would have fibbed a bit (Or maybe a lot) as I had to do a lot of fibbing the last few years to take care of them.

I think we sometimes become a slave to our parents dementia, putting of what has to be done because we don’t want the hissy fits. But this is a case of doing what has to be done.
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Take lots of pictures, so he has those. Beyond that, I wouldn't tell him.
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Does the insurance company know that the house is unoccupied? Being unoccupied presents a greater risk of theft, fire, wind damage, even flooding if the water isn't turned off. Some companies will not insure an unoccupied home, or if they do would require an endorsement or separate policy or even cancel the policy.

There's no need to tell him. Begin the proceedings to sell. If the property is not sold and it burns down, you've lost the entire value of the home because the insurance won't pay once they find that it's been unoccupied.
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Babs75 Feb 2021
I contacted his insurance agent and my own insurance agent with this question. They both told me the same thing. In my state being unoccupied is fine as long as his stuff is all still there, which it is. They also said to check on it frequently which I do. It comes under the same heading as a vacation property where your stuff is there but you're not for most of the time. They said if we leave it totally empty for any length of time then there is a problem because they said that empty houses invite problems. There is a light on a timer and I am there fairly frequently.
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If he is in Memory Care, there is no reason to tell him.

He's not in charge of his finances, if you are the guardian. Plus, if he is in Memory Care, he is not competent to take care of such things. There is a good chance he will forget what you told him, and still believe that he owns a home. Why upset that thought?

Have you changed his address for the post office? Perhaps change it to your home so that he doesn't need to receive court papers and become agitated. You can then deliver only "pleasant" mail.

The house must be sold to pay for his care. Simple as that.
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Babs75 Feb 2021
His mail has been coming to my house for 1-1/2 years.
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