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So read some questions and answers from way back in 2010 and 2017 where people spoke about similar situations. My mother had a serious stroke in September and got awful care at the hospital. She's had infection after infection and other issues that they didn't treat properly and because we chose for faith reasons and her medical history reasons to not get her a covid vaccine hospital started telling me that no nursing facility would take her. She has been in the hospital for 4 months and now they're telling me I have like a week to get her out of the hospital and if no nursing home or skilled nursing facility will take her, I will have to take her home. She has a feeding tube, is paralyzed on one side and our home is not conducive or large enough to have nurses being there 24/7. Small kitchen and living room that we'd need to put my mother in. Small bedrooms are on second floor, with very narrow staircase. Rooms either don't have furniture now or it's old and broken down, and my mother started to hoard mail and some other things. I'm in the process of trying to clean stuff out, but I have to do that in the middle of doing 10 other things every day plus work, so it is a slow go. We'd need to move furniture, get rid of furniture and purchase hospital bed and other equipment. Plus, my brother is on disability for a heart and back condition and recently had knee surgery and I still have to work and don't actually live in my mother's house. Anybody know of resources in Massachusetts or New England area that I can check out. Places that might be willing to take her at least temporarily until we can get the house settled. Lawyers that will fight for our rights to have a place for my mother. I'm willing to take her out of state if possible so we can get her some more medical care and rehab before bringing her home. That is what she needs. She needs to get off feeding tube. New Hampshire even or any place at this point.


The treatment of my elderly mother and how the administration and some hospital staff has treated me is making me sick. I don't eat well because I get so upset after talking to them and I now often sleep only 2 to 3 hours a night because of how upset I still am at bedtime, and it sometimes only comes from sheer exhaustion.

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Tylenol was made with the same fetal stem cell technology as the vaccine. True religious objectors would never, ever pop a Tylenol. And many, many other common medications - albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft - all came from the same technology as the COVID vaccine.
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LD, quick question should have asked this before making the assumption, are you looking to private pay, private insurance, or have Medicare / Medicaid cover the cost?

If private pay or private insurance I am sure you can find placement for your LO. If you plan on using Medicare / Medicaid may ask why do you think it is reasonable for taxpayers to pay for the higher costs of care if your LO gets covid, and in the off chance leads to others getting covid?

How exactly is this view woke or uninformed? You have your beliefs and respect that, but you have failed to express why your beliefs ahould be paid by others.
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sp19690 Jan 2022
Get over it already. Why dont you talk about the higher cost and care involved in doctors pushing more treatments on dying patients.

Look at bob dole with final stage cancer at 98 or 99 years old going for chemotherapy. What about before covid people getting sick and requiring treatment for flu complications? Did you complain about that too?

A person after a certain age has to go on Medicare they cannot get regular health insurance. Thats the way it works. And what about people who are vaccinated who get covid and require hospitalization? Why is it ok to treat them? And yes there are vaccinated people who are hospitalized with covid regardless of the nonsense and one sided reporting on the news.

This woman's mother is very sick with a feeding tube and paralyzed on one side and those who lack compassion for her situation should be ashamed of themselves. What is wrong with you people?

At least I am trying to call some places just to confirm or dispute what the hospital has told her. Unfortunately it's the weekend so I can't get complete info until monday. Strange how the nurses in these facilities that answer the phone can't answer the vaxx or unvaxx requirement for new admits.
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Ricky, one hospital employee said in exasperation that no NH would take an unvaccinated lerson. It seems not to be true.

I am asking if the OP has worked with Discharge Planning on looking at sites with available beds. The OP then needs to do the legwork to find out if they will take an unvaccinated person
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OP,
The hospital will find a place she can go unvaccinated if you refuse to take her home. But it might be one of those last-resort type places that must take on cases other places reject. Oh, and the one around here offers no visitation by anyone unless someone's in the last hours of their life.

Your case reminds me of parents who want full school services for their child without getting them vaxed for measles. The law here is that you then have to figure out schooling on your own at home by yourself or get the kid placed out of state by yourself versus having all the private and public school resources that other parents get.

Her choice and yours mean that you both have no choices except the worst ones.
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lealonnie1 Jan 2022
Except for measles vaccines have gone through ALL the normal testing for years and were proven safe before being rolled out.
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Loving Daughter,

Please note: I am not sure what their policy would be about vaccinations.
Also they have some testing right on the premises so the resident does not
have to make unnecessary medical trips to the hospital.
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Loving Daughter,

Check out St. Antoine Hospice
They are wonderful. My grandmother lived there for many years and my dad
passed (an only child) before her. They (the staff, nurses) are fabulous.

They have short-term, long-term, assisted living, nursing home care, hospice, respite for the family and they do unnecessary trips to the hospital. A lot of services right on the premises. I, too, am a loving daughter. Mom is at home been in and out of the hospital 3 times over 18 months--visited nurses, moved to a first floor unit. Has Lewy Body Dementia. As I write this Mom is asleep in "our" room in a hospital bed. At 11AM after I write this I work online.

St. Antoine is a Villa and a nursing home. My grandmother lived in the original building and in her 90's they opened beautiful new wing. She died there, I was and they let her die in Peace where she lived for 20 years.

There are (2) phone numbers you can check out their website.
Telephone: (401) 767-3500

Also if you dad was a veteran contact the Veteran's for Aid & Attendance.
FlexJobs.com is fabulous for remote work.

God Bless You. I will pray the rosary for you.
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If you do not have legal conservatorship/guardianship over your mother, you are not responsible for her and do not have to take her home. You can make her a ward of the state by refusing to.
Secondly, who can blame a care facility who will not admit a new patient who refuses to be vaccinated? Why should any nursing home or care facility put all of their residents and staff at risk to humor someone who refuses to be vaccinated for Covid?
So really the only choices are get your mother vaccinated so she can be placed in a decent care facility. Or take her home and pray for the best.
Get your mother vaccinated. I'm sure God won't hold it against either one of you if it means your mother will get some decent care.
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sp19690 Jan 2022
You say that an unvaccinated person would put all the staff and residents at risk. How exactly when the vaccinated are also getting and spreading covid. Seems like the mother would be at risk being unvaccinated since everyone is telling us that being vaccinated keeps you from getting a severe case if covid and needing to go to the hosspiral.

So please explain to me how the vaccinated staff and residents in a nursing home are in danger from someone who is not vaccinated.
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In my experience, the discharge planners at the hospital will give you a list of places with available beds, but it's the family's job to visit them, ascertain policies and set up financials.

Have you visited any nursing homes?
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Ricky6 Jan 2022
To BarbBrooklyn: I do not think you understand the situation. The nursing homes do not want the patient because she is not vaccinated and refuses to be vaccinated. Therefore, it is not like a situation to pick a NH that will accept the patient.
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I live in mass. and there are two NH across street from me they both take unvaccinated clients.
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sp19690 Jan 2022
I called a place just now and the nurse said she didn't think they had to be vaccinated to be admitted but to double check monday with admissions. None of the websites i checked for skilled nursing listed mandatory vaccination for admittance either. If this was the case surely that would be on their website.

I believe you that vaccination is not mandatory at 2 places you live near. So with that being said is the hospital lying to this woman and her family and if they are what are the implications about why medical staff would lie to someone whose mother is very sick about something like this.
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The mother is elderly, is recovering from a serious stroke, has a feeding tube and still requires extensive 24/7 care and rehab support four months on from first admission.

But as far as I can gather there is nothing to say that she is unable to give or withhold consent to treatment. If so, vaccination is her decision. It would be nice to hear that she is being assisted with making it.
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I am not going to approach the vax/no vax discussion -
but, know that any facility can set forth their requirements and rules for accepting new patients.
But, given that the situation is such that you are unable to bring your parent home, stand firm, be firm with the hospital and their social workers - you are unable to care for your parent in your home. End of discussion. They will try to reason with you, logic with you, make you feel guilty- don't fall for it. The facility the hospital may find may not be the highest quality, but, at least it could give you some time to research more options.

You could do a hotel with a 24/7 nurse, but that will become very expensive. And with a feeding tube in, don't think a hotel will be willing to have an ambulance pull up and bring a 'guest' in on a stretcher...they might decline the liability.

You might want to lay out your plan A, B, C and D, because with your parent not vaccinated, it will be very difficult finding a facility willing to take her. So, be ready to figure that one out.
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mstrbill Jan 2022
I completely agree with you, except I think in OP's case, she also wants control. She wants to dictate where and how her mother is taken care of =, and under what conditions. She can't have everything she wants. If she refuses to take her home, the state will pursue guardianship and mom will be vaxxed and taken care of properly. OP apparantly doesn't desire this.
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You are not legally responsible for her and simply tell them she cannot live with you. It is THEIR problem to find her a place. I know this because a hospital tried to force us to take my mother -in- law and my husband said no. They try to make you feel guilty but stick to your guns and make them find a placement if they want her bed. Remember, even though you love her, don’t let them guilt you because LEGALLY you don’t have to take her.
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This is for MJ yes you are right California does not have religious exemptions for vaccines but poster lives in MA and they do.

This link is for schools but since she was referring to ca schools I a m posting that here for her.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exemption-state-laws.aspx
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AliBoBali Jan 2022
The way I'm reading this, it suggests that Massachusetts mandates allow for nursing/LTHC facilites to require their residents get vax'd. "Nursing homes and rest homes can: Choose to vaccinate their staff and residents."
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-vaccinations-for-nursing-homes-rest-homes-and-assisted-living-residences
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Adding they also made the no vaccine decision based on moms medical history not just religious objection.
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MJ1929 Jan 2022
Making a claim that it's for medical reasons without a doctor's order doesn't fly either.

Either way, they have a right to choose who they accept. Being unvaxxed is not a protected class.
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Pope Francis says getting a COVID vaccine is a moral obligation and an act of love. “Love for oneself, love for our families and friends, and love for all peoples." The Pope himself is vaccinated with Pfizer.

See the Pope say so on the Vatican's own news page:

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-08/pope-francis-appeal-covid-19-vaccines-act-of-love.html
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sp19690 Jan 2022
He also hides pedo priests so take what he says with a grain of salt.
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I don't believe the hospital can discharge your mother since she requires a feeding tube. Sounds like an unsafa discharge home if there was one. Tell me your zip code and mile radius that would be acceptable and i will personally do a google search and call some places for you to see what they say about admitting an unvaxxed person.
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rovana Jan 2022
I believe they may be able to apply for guardianship and move the patient. And does the family really want to pay privately once Medicare ceases to pay? There are financial issues and I cannot imagine why you are so against vaccination - if there is a shot not involving fetal cells, then where is the moral objection?
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Also have you actually called any skilled nursing facilities? I checked the websites of a few in MA and none have anything about new admits requiring a vaccine. Just wondering if you are taking the word of the hospital or if you have called some places.
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Loving daughter here is a lawyer and article about the fact that these nursing homes cannot force residents to get vaccinated. They are in NJ.

https://www.hnwlaw.com/2020/12/01/can-a-nursing-home-assisted-living-resident-refuse-the-covid-vaccine/
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MJ1929 Jan 2022
They can't require an existing resident to get vaccinated, but that's not what's going on here.

That's different than requiring a vaccine before being admitted.
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Solution would be to get her vaccinated. I do not believe that there is any "faith reason" as a Christian to avoid this. The connection between use of fetal cells in vaccine development and the vaccines currently in use is too tangential to be morally objectionable. Pope Francis has actually said that. And further suggested that refusal to get vaccination (absent genuine Medical objection) is immoral because it ignores the safety of others. I should hope that nursing homes have rules about potential residents. After all, you have the right to refuse BUT that does NOT obligate others to accommodate your choices. Consequences - that is the result of the choices you make. Others have rights too! It is absurd to talk about your "rights" and then deny that others have rights too! This whole business is so political - not science based. I mean do you think that 800,00+ dead people are just screen extras snoozing in body bags?
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sp19690 Jan 2022
You are wrong. States are required to accept religious and medical waivers. This is a violation if the American disabilty act if your state has waivers against vaccination and then it is not honored. Same goes for employees. This is how the law works. We do not live in a tyrannical dictatorship.
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Have you checked into board and care homes?

They usually have very different requirements then large facilities. My dad refused a flu or pneumonia shot and it wasn't a problem.

He, unfortunately, had to have surgery in 12/20 and contracted covid in the hospital and died.

Just an FYI for everyone, his cause of death wasn't listed as covid. Maybe because he obviously caught it from staff. I don't know and it doesn't matter, when it is our time to go, we go.
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JoAnn29 Jan 2022
Her Mom has a feeding tube. Don't think a board and care will do skilled nursing like this.
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OP, seriously, you do not want this boiling down to either you do everything or the hospital decides by itself that your mother is an unsafe discharge.

Perhaps regions such as the Deep South might be more hospitable than New England to taking on the unvaccinated, but it's a drastic move to uproot everyone just to move in the hope of that.

You could argue that measles vaccinations are unfair given that before them only 400-500 children a year died, but the state of California still won't let your kid go to private or public school without one. For most, this is too steep a hill to die on, and for your mother, it could be steeper yet.
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rovana Jan 2022
If my grandmother were alive, she would be horrified at these attitudes. She told me stories where mothers lost all their children to disease such as diphtheria - she would not understand the stupidity of refusing lifesaving vaccines.
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I am sorry you are dealing with a difficult situation. Without being vaccinated, your mother has little chance of rehabilitation in a residential setting anywhere in Massachusetts or the other New England states. Perhaps you could have her stay temporarily in a hotel and arrange nursing assistance and rehabilitation in her hotel room if that is even possible. A lot of agencies are reluctant to take on unvaccinated clients. I wish you luck with your dilemma.
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sp19690 Jan 2022
Funny states like NY are now refusing unvaxxed people into their nursing homes but during the. Height of the pandemic Cuomo was sending patients sick with covid to nursing homes to infect and kill residents that were not sick. And when vaccines were introduced in nursing homes they had more cases of covid than when none of the residents were not vaccinated.
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My mother wanted the first two vaccines....but was hesitant on the third. It was an easier decision being she rarely left her home.

Fast forward .... she fell broke a hip, came home, surgical site infected, fell three times, ER twice, admitted and had another surgery to clean out the site and replace the ball, another stint in rehab with IV antibiotics, and two trips to the ER for a dislocated hip. All in six weeks.....

They asked me if she should get a booster. Honestly, at 85 with all of that other going on as well as all of her other health problems....she's getting the booster. She has bigger fish to fry right now. She needs a good placement first and foremost.

(for the record...I am unvaccinated)
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Forced vaccination is a disgrace. Especially since the vaccination does not guarantee you won't get covid. Just heard the news just because you are vaccinated and noisted does not mean you wont get a breakthrough case of covid.

For all those displaying disgusting unsympathetic comments regarding someone making a decision about what they want to inject into their own bodies remember what comes around goes around. When you are on your 12th or 26th booster shot and still testing yourself for covid daily
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Nokonoko Jan 2022
Point people are making is if someone wishes to have someone else be responsible for payment then they have to play by the rules of the payer end of story. That is not unsympathetic it is fact.
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‘Faith reasons’ are what stop ‘Christian Scientist’ parents from getting medical treatment for dying children. I’ve read nearly all the Bible, Old and New Testaments, and I can’t remember anything about vaccination. If you want to follow the Bible’s suggestions, start with Leviticus Chapter 13 on how to treat leprosy. Then give thanks to God for modern medicine.
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MargaretMcKen Jan 2022
What did you think of Leviticus? It's interesting reading.
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look in webster
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Faith reasons? Do you think God will be pleased you allowed your mother to not get the treatment she needed and even suffer, so you could feel like a good Christian? Doesn't sound much like honoring thy mother to me.

Consider that God works through people. I don't have what it takes to become a doctor, but many people do. God gave them the brains and skills to help heal people, or at least keep them comfortable as they leave this world. THAT is the work of God, and it's ridiculous to shun that and then ask God why your mother is still suffering. He provided the help to you, and you've decided you know God's will better than He does. You might as well stop all medical treatment if you don't trust it. It’s not as if everything else is safe but the vaccine isn’t.
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sp19690 Jan 2022
God has nothing to do with mefical breakthroughs it is only recently in modrrn times that people have access to treatments against disease and illness. Think about the nightmares the mentally ill suffered through for thusands of years and even modern treatments are not a panacea for many if they don't take their medications. God doesn't care if yoy live or die. After all god created disease as a way to cull the population.
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Why not get her poked with the J&J one time done deal? The sad part she my guess it is not a matter of if, more so when someone gets COVID in a SNF. So better off getting the poked so they have a better chance at survival.
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sp19690 Jan 2022
Cdiff is a bigger killer in nursing homes. Where's the vaccine for that?
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If your mom wants to be admitted as a resident into any facility that uses Medicare or Medicaid $ to run their facility, the facility has the right and requirement that the resident is vaccinated for Covid and gets their booster when it comes due. Same is true for an hospice program that is paid by Medicare. This determination was just upheld by the Supreme Court earlier this month.

Your choices are stark:
- get her vaxxed
- find a private pay only facility that does not do any participation in any Medicare or Medicaid programs. This will be very hard to do as something as routine as an annual flu shot or the pneumonia shot that facilities require of residents is covered by & paid for by Medicare.
- The medical directors at private pay NH will be participating in Medicare so none will be able to get paid to ever see her as she is not vaxxed. She would need to find an outside MD somewhere who does not participate in Medicare. Not ever likely….
- Should you actually find a private pay only place, I’ll guess 20K-25k a month with 3 months up front. & cash up front non refundable paid.
- take her home and you & your family do all the caregiving for her. Being unvaxxed means any In-Home health care companies will find it difficult to do any services for her as they have other clients that are having their care in some way underwritten by Medicare or Medicaid. The IHHS companies right now have a huge waiting list. If they are faced with going to a unvaccinated household or one that is fully vaccinated, vaccinated wins.

Also should this come to an impasse with the hospital and you do not pick her up, the discharge planner can contact APS and ask APS to intervene and request an emergency ward of the state placement for your mom. Happens all the time and that guardian is now in charge of all decisions regarding her. Yes, you can challenge it but you’ll need an attorney for the hearing likely set for months from now and you would have to show why decisions made as her POA or decisions she made while you were her POA were done in best interest…. the Supreme Court decision notwithstanding. Lol.

Just too bad for your mom but that’s entirely on her and her decisions. She could get jabbed tomorrow & get beyond this, get admitted into a facility w/24/7 skilled nursing care oversight; you do realize this, don’t you? Personally I find this a ridiculous hill to take a stand on; no sympathy.
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LoopyLoo Jan 2022
Exactly. It’s ridiculous!
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What does your mother think about having her Covid vaccinations? I mean what does she think, not what does the family think.

What's the basis for your being held responsible for her care - are you her MPOA, guardian, anything like that?
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