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Just wondering if anyone has any personal experience with the Long Term Care Insurance? I'm considering buying it for myself so that my two children will have an additional resource should I live long enough to need daily care help.

Premiums continue increasing for long-term health insurance, but to put things into perspective my mother was in assisted living for 4 years at approximately $7000 per month. $339,000 for the 4 years she was there.

Just compare the costs and determine whether it is worth it based on the odds and whether you think you might be able to remain at home with a caregiver.
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Reply to dseag2
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Very good friends of mine both had a LTC insurance policy for many years. She passed away from Covid and was never able to use it. Her husband is now in a LTC/Memory care facility and was able to use the LTC insurance, His son had to pay full cost for 3months, $6,000 per month and then the LTC insurance started to pay, but, he still has to pay $1,500 per month on top of what the LTC insurance pays. His son handles all his finances.
So, this is something to think about. Possibly a financial advisor (fiduciary person) would be able to help you with a financial decision. Looking into annuties, stock with dividends, etc. something the will generate long term income for you.
I'm sure the cost of LTC will increase and we should be prepared if we can. The bad thing with LTC insurance is if you pass away no one gets the dollars that was put in. If you have annuities, stocks, or any other investments you are able to leave that to your family. It's a big decision to make and I think it's a hard one that has to be thought out carefully, who knows what's the right decision. It's like Russian roulette. Many decisions go wrong or change. We always hope for the best
Wishing you blessings on a very hard decision.
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Reply to Roofie
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Some of the more affordable plans don't seem to offer much in return. They are "long term care" in that they pay a fixed amount toward your care for a long time, but by no means do they pay in full, so you are paying premiums plus however much more per day or month necessary for care. There is also usually a 30 to 90 day lag time before LTC benefits kick in. You will need to pay out of pocket during the lag time. There are varying requirements for when different policies will begin to pay benefits. If the insured person dies during the lag period, the LTC policy will never take effect. Just one of the things to consider when choosing a policy.
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Reply to RedVanAnnie
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southiebella: My DH and I have it incorporated into our financial portfolio.
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Reply to Llamalover47
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If you can get it and its not super expensive get it a nursing home for an alzheimers patient runs 7 to 9 thousand dollars a month
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Reply to Closecall
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My Aunt had long term care insurance. It ended up paying out several hundred thousand dollars before the cap came. I don't know what policies are being offered now, but I do know if I had not been available to do the claim paperwork and advocate for my aunt during the nurse led reviews, it likely would not have been usable.
The policy paid out much more than my Aunt paid in and preserved her capitol. She was in assisted living and memory care for eight years.
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Reply to Twinflower1
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I just saw someone's post which said it costs $9,000 a year. I think they meant a month because that's what it costs here in CA. But, my cousin-in-law is paying $6,000 a month for the two of the to share a bathroom and a bedroom. It depends on whether you have one room or two, whether you share a room (they aren't that big) and whether you share a bathroom. Usually sharing means living with a stranger. My uncle lives in two rooms with a bathroom - all private. As long as he's as cognizant as he is, we'll fork over the cost for those two private rooms. He also has his things with him - at least some. Once there's room sharing, you can count on things getting "lost" or stolen, too.

Consider visiting some several assisted living and nursing homes in your area and ask about costs and amenities. That way you'll have a handle on the costs where you will probably be when its your turn for care.

BTW, the older you get, your starting and continuing costs for the insurance will increase. Start as early as you can. I think you'll be glad you did!
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Reply to NAB1949
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MarshallW Nov 16, 2021
The post of $9.000 a year was for the premium for two LTC policies not for the cost of LTC. If the cost of a decent long term facility in CA is $9,000 a month then you can see why premiums are so high if the compay doesn't have many years of your premiums to invest to eventually pay for it and of course it won't completely but the company can use the premiums of others who never use their amouints to cover yours. As pointed out in another posting, the companies never predicted the extent of policyholders getting dementia and its enormous costs. Note also that premiums do not go up for individuals or as you age, they go up for everyone in your grouping. LTC insurance is not an investment any more than auto or homeowners insurance is, its to spread the risk among persons that want good long term care without burdening their children and can afford this. It certainly is not for everyone so care in deciding whether to get it and whether you can afford it is important.
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In southern CA, dementia care in a nice facility can cost $7,000 to $11,000 a month. Unless you have a home worth $500,000 to $1,000,000 when you can't care for yourself any more and your family is able to sell it to take care of you, the insurance can make a big difference in what kind of care you can get.

You probably wouldn't want to live in a state home. They are overcrowded, noisy and generally unattractive. The food is often institutional food and there are few other amenities, although in some cases, there may be a few like updated food services. Vista one or two and you'll see what I mean.

If you're on Medical, you can get help from the state but will have to sign over your home or anything else of value. Even then, most of the nicer care homes won't deal with Medical so you might not like where you end up.

These are just things to consider. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the insurance.
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Reply to NAB1949
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One out of 3 elderly people will spend some time in a rehab/nursing facility, or require care at home. We have had policies for 30 years, & cost goes up annually. It is based on the average cost of a long-term care facility in your county. Started then @ $2400 annually for both together, & is now $9,000 a year.
When long-term care ins. started 30+ years ago, companies saw it as a great way to create new client/revenue base. They did not expect the hundreds of thousands of dementia patients living many years & needing care, & many of whom had long term-care policies.
So long-term care is now a losing proposition for many companies, who have cut back on availability of policies & increasing costs. But if you need it, it can be a blessing in avoiding backruptcy, & in paying for in-home, hands-on, personal care help, or care in a facility.
Be very careful in reading what is covered, for how much, & for how long.
I am full-time retired RN caregiver.
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Reply to Momsmokaboy65
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I sure hope so !!! Ive had long term insurance for my husband and myself for about 25 years now even tho hes determined not to go.

i pay over $1300 a month for both of us and prices of course keep going up. but facilities are much higher and i do not want my daughter to use her money for care when i can help provide for ourselves.

I also want to be able to chose where we live and when we were younger there was no way to know about accidents and strokes and how many years and how much care would be needed.
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Reply to Betsysue2002
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A financial advisor encouraged us to buy the most we could afford when we bought it. This way we did not feel pressed to bump it up every time it was offered. Due to inflation.
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Reply to KPWCSC
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We have a policy with GENWORTH and they KEEP raising the premiums so it is quite expensive. They now offered plans for people to opt out which would definitely not pay for care so we are holding on to our policy. Other people have already offered good advice but if it was up to me, I would do the math and see if it is worth it if I self invest. My sister’s lawyer told her that she should self invest and self pay. Right now if GENWORTH raises the premiums as they threaten they will, it would cost us $47,000 a year! Not affordable!
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Reply to KathleenQ
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I can see from reading the posts, that through experience, many found LTC Insurance did not meet their needs. Although everyone's circumstances are different.

Something to consider: Statistics indicate an average time a person spends in a Long Term Care is two years. How much is the LTC Insurance policy? What interest rate can you get with a savings, CD's or other financial product if it is set aside and designated for LTC?
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Reply to jmccloud
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Whatever you do start young, buy LTC policy premiums or save/invest and self fund yourself. I chose to save/invest for 35 years and fund my own if needed, Now in retirement I will have flexability to use as I choose, and not needed for living expenses. If and when I might need it, so far I'm blessed with good health but not my wife.
My son will be taken care of either way.

After putting a pencil to paper when I was younger the returns on investments (over 30 yrs) FAR out returned anything close to what even the most expensive LTC policy could return. You should price policies and see what they provided, like home care or some offer unused partial balances at certain older age.
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Reply to BluSky1
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KPWCSC Nov 15, 2021
If you have not done this, consider seeing a lawyer who specializes in elder law (even if you are young). Unfortunately life does not always go as planned. A trust can protect your investments should you have a major accident. At least in our state Medicaid has a look back period of 5 years and VA has a look back period of 3 years. Any lawyer can write up a trust, but one who specializes will create one according to your family’s individual needs.
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Yes totally worth it , I Purchased 10 years ago for my husband and myself I never thought I would need it ,it’s kind of like having car insurance , we pay for it every year but with ever hoping not to use,car my husband had a knee replacement four years ago this coming January , Anesthesia reaction caused early Parkinson’s/ dementia ,policy long term care ,is paying for me to have an aide (you stop payments on policy once the policy is needed d for care! So example I paid $ 2500 for ten years ,once I needed long term care for my husband who is now 69yrs old , he has $539000.00 to use .it’s an investment you hope to never use and unfortunately I wish I didn’t need or have to use ! So yes it’s a comport to know. And have plan just in case ❤️I hope you find this helpful
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Reply to Sammy55
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Nusing Homes are the Pitts and wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy.
I would deffiently check out Long Term Care Insurance, if it let you stay in your own Home, having Caregivers care for you.
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Reply to bevthegreat
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My sister was paying $800 a quarter when she was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. We helped her stay in her house for about 1 1/2 years then convinced her to go to to AL and filed for LT insurance. It took a few months, some paperwork, plus in person assessment but her Genworth policy kicked in and paid cost of AL. After 2 1/2 years in AL we just recently moved her to MC and she maxed out $230 per day rate. With her Social Security check the $7250 MC is covered for about the next 2 1/2 years. After that we will start draw down on her assets. I am thankful that her insurance is there so I could move her to the best MC I could find. I can leave her and feel like she is well cared for especially now when she can no longer articulate her needs or concerns.
My husband purchased LT policy in 1990’s for both of us. We each pay about $100 per quarter for policy that pays about $150 per day. We declined the inflation increase a number of years ago. With lower pay rate we feel we have hedged our risk. We may never need LT care but if we do policy will help with costs.
If you are considering a policy remember not every facility accepts Medicaid (Medicare doesn’t cover LT care). At the rate the government is spending money who knows how much Medicaid will pay in the future. LT care policy will help us stay a better facility if we need it.
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Reply to Sister1950
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LTC insurance is expensive. The older you are, the more expensive it gets. If you have deep pockets and the policy has cost-of-living measures to keep pace with the economy, then it might be worth it. If your family tends to be healthy without dementia and you are healthy, then LTC insurance might never be needed. It only kicks in after insurance for "rehab" is used up. If you are old enough for Medicare, check policies in your area during the "open season" for long term care options.
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Reply to Taarna
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If you can afford it DO IT! We are looking for my BIL and he can't afford anything unless Medicaid is involved. With so many nursing homes and assisted living places declining the prices go up for all. We have learned in our search that if you are a veteran or a spouse of a veteran than there is a place for you which I am a veteran.

If you do your taxes you can claim it in SCH A. I do taxes that is how I know this. And certain states take medical insurances off of the taxes too like the state of Iowa.

It will give your children and you peace of mind when it comes to where you can go when its time
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Reply to Babs2013
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I bought a Long Term Care policy through my job when I was in my 50's. I am blessed that 20 years later I haven't had to use it. Currently, it would pay approx $200 a day, but only for a certain term. It pays for home help to keep you in your home longer. There are many options. I have a Met Life Plan. It's worth doing some research.
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Reply to Confused5
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My Mom and I are very pleased with her policy.

The application process for home care went smoothly: there was a form to fill out with her doctor and then a meeting with someone from the company who confirmed that she needed help with two ADLs for home care.

The plan covers three years of facility care at the stated daily benefit amount, or six years of home care at 50% of the DBA. She doesn't use the maximum amount yet, so it could work out to be more like ten years. It is a "partnership" policy so if the policy runs out and she eventually goes on Medicaid, she would be allowed to keep some $350,000+ in assets that would otherwise have to be spent down.

The 90 day deductible period was calendar days, so she didn't have to have service every day to make them count.

She was able to designate someone to be notified if she stopped paying premiums so the policy wouldn't be inadvertently cancelled.

I like that it gives her "a license to spend" so that she doesn't do without care because she doesn't want to be a bother. It's already paid for, so why not use it?

I acquired a similar policy myself. The rates have gone up several times, but there's no way I could get anything similar for less than four times the price at my current age, assuming I could still qualify for coverage.
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Reply to Frebrowser
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Not as popular anymore.
Companies have changed the policies.
Warnings are issued online.
You pay in, and want to beg to get the benefits often denied for some reason or another?

No longer considered a good investment.

If you want to invest, buy an assisted living 6 bed home.
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Reply to Sendhelp
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My mom had a policy that she bought in her late 50's or early 60's because she saw what the nursing home cost my grandma. Mom paid on it for a number of years, then the dementia began. At some point she determined (in her dementia damaged brain) it wasn't worth what it was costing, so she let the policy lapse. I found out about a year and a half later and to get the policy reinstated by payment of back premiums. Of course they would not reinstate as mom had been diagnosed with dementia.

How often does this happen? Mom never got any benefit from the policy. So be careful if you decide to purchase that someone responsible is in charge of making sure the payments are made. A family member was notified of the non-payment and decided to do nothing.
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Reply to gladimhere
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Brest to save and invest...stocks, CDs, money markets, IRA s. Then spend down with less frustration
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Reply to MACinCT
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Dad bought momma a ltc policy when she was 61. Paid on it every year until she turned 85. Last time I paid on it was about $2700.00. She fell and suffered hemotomas and ended up in assisted living. She did have a 60 or 90 day wait were we had to pay out of pocket but once she got qualified they pay every month at $5017.00. She still has over $350000.00 left on the policy and she has been in assisted living for a little over 3 years.
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Reply to akababy7
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Be very careful. Many policies are very limited. IE. Some do not cover people in a facility unless that facility has a 24/7 RN on duty. NONE do have that. So coverage is nil. Then there is the fact that if you pay all that monthly money for good LTC insurance, it STILL may not be enough to cover expenses, but it would be considered INCOME for the person and therefore could keep them from qualifying for medicaid. LTC insurance is a huge subject and requires a lot of research on your own part regarding the pitfulls both of having it and of NOT having it.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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My mom has an LTC policy through Genworth. Her premiums did increase as she aged. It was offered through her employer. So I think her premiums may have been a little lower since it was a group.
There was a 90 day period that you private pay and then it kicked in. She did up her "per day" a couple of times over the years.

Read the contract, hers said she had to need assistance with a certain number of ADLs or IDLs or as with my mother diagnosed with dementia. The company sent a person to assess her needs when we reached out to make a claim. There was other requirements as to the facility.
There was some paperwork to do, but not too bad. The facility debits my mom's bank account, and then sends the invoice to LTC company, which then deposits her payment directly into her bank account.

My mom's Memory Care costs $7100, monthly. LTC pays $6900 of that (her max $/day). Based on current costs her LTC will pay about 5 years before she hits max payout. We just sold her house and she has her SSecurity and she has some IRA retirement savings to private pay after that if necessary. She's 91, so it definitely helped that she didn't need it until age 89.

My husband and I both have LTC policies. It definitely has helped to stretch my mom's retirement dollars.
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Reply to Gracie61
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I think we were very lucky in the LTC policy my husband took out in his early 60s. It was for a set amount, with an inflation rider--an amount that could theoretically cover 3 years of care in a nursing home in our state. However, the money can be used for either facility or in-home care. It did have a 90 day waiting period, but hubby had an acute condition that made him eligible for in-home services from Medicare (OT, PT, aide twice a week for bath, nurse). The LTC company counted the Medicare-covered days in the waiting period. By the time it was determined by Medicare guidelines that my husband was recuperated enough to could go for outpatient therapy, the 90 days were almost up. We only had to wait for a couple of weeks before we could tap into the LTC policy to get home health aides. We've had aides several days a week for about 4 years now; husband just needs to get re-certified annually. And, a pleasant surprise, once he started using the LTC insurance we didn't have to pay the premiums any more! Granted, we paid for about 18 years and the premiums kept going up, but we're very glad we have it. The take-away is that policies vary all over the place, and it's best to get the one that's the most flexible in terms of how it's used. Premiums are lower if there's a longer waiting period, as I understand it; we had friends who had a Genworth policy and they had to wait a year before it started paying!
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Reply to newbiewife
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My parents had an expensive LTC policy on my mom, they couldn’t afford it for both. When she had a devastating brain bleed stroke and went to what proved to be a failed rehab, then to a NH the policy started paying for her care. It was maxed out within a year. She then went on Medicaid for payment of her care. Essentially the LTC policy only delayed the time until Medicaid so it wasn’t worth the expense. Every situation is different, but in our family a LTC policy wasn’t worth it
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Reply to Daughterof1930
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My mother had a policy with Genworth.

Was it worth it? I don't know. She took it out over 20 years ago, and it cost her about $2000/per year in the beginning. Over the years, however, it more than tripled in costs; the year she died, she paid over $6,000.

There was a 90 day "deductible", meaning she would have to private pay the first 90 days in a facility.

The policy had provisions for coverage of in-home care; also up to 21 days per year for respite care.

However, as with most insurance there were "catches". Respite care, for example. When mom went into respite care the year before she passed, we did the paperwork for her to be reimbursed, since she private paid the cost. I was still going through the process for reimbursement when she passed. The policy paid 2/3 of the cost - because, even though they pay for up to 21 days, there is a maximum they will pay each month. Since the entire 21 days were in the same month, and the cost exceeded that maximum, they wouldn't pay the full amount.

A lot of the payment schedules were like that: they pay "up to X" amount per day, but there is a maximum they will pay monthly; so that daily amount is not really true.

I recently purchased a policy similar to Grandma1954. It was very, very expensive; I paid it in one payment. It will pay a benefit to my survivors if I never go into care; my mom's policy had nothing like that. She was in the fortunate position of being able to afford it. However, I don't think she ever really understood that the policy would not have covered all of the expenses of a NH. I think she though it was rather more like an auto insurance policy - once you meet your deductible, (90 days self-pay) the policy picks up the rest, which would not have been the case.

I understand that my policy will likely cover only about half of what costs are projected to be, and I/we will have to cover the rest. I don't know of any policy that guarantees full coverage of costs.

You're the only one who can decide if it's "worth it", however. If you have a financial advisor - NOT an insurance broker, whose job it is to sell you insurance - that's a question better put to them. If you don't have a financial advisor, you might want to talk to your CPA about it, perhaps (s)he can put you in touch with someone who might be able to give you guidance.

Also, much like life insurance, there is no guarantee that you will qualify for a policy, even if you have the financial means to get one. My husband was denied due to pre-existing conditions that make it slightly more likely that he will need care in a facility.

Remember, these companies are in the business to make money. They make money by not paying out claims, so it's not really in their best interests to sell policies to people who will likely need to use them, or to make things easy for you when it comes to paying out claims. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get any sort of reimbursement from Genworth; my mom paid more money over the years into that policy than they paid out for that one stint in respite care. If you're going to get a policy, I would make sure you sit down with whomever you think your POA/advocate is going to be once you get to the point of needing a facility, and make sure they understand everything included in the policy; you might not be in the position to be dealing with said insurance company once that time comes. My mom sure wasn't.
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Reply to notgoodenough
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MountainMoose Nov 15, 2021
Genius post, notgoodenough! Thank you!
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